Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 roma_wolves Aug 07, 2009 10:27:39	I have a question about Tira Miron. When she "died" was it just her soul that joined the Silver Flame or her body too. I was thinking of having relics in some churches in my game. And like in real life churches there would probably be 25 churches claiming to have "the finger of Tira Miron" or whatever. Although given the Flamic religions propensity for cremation maybe relics would be considered spooky rather than precious? Not that seemingly contradictory behaviors can't take place in a culture. The keeping of relics, for example could harken back to ancient Galifaran or even Sarlonan (e.g. Rhiavhaar or Pyrine) culture and be a strong enough tradition to take place within a culture where cremation is typical. Anyways, not sure, but input is appreciated.
#2 cloud_divider Aug 10, 2009 22:21:05	I have a question about Tira Miron. When she "died" was it just her soul that joined the Silver Flame or her body too. I was thinking of having relics in some churches in my game. And like in real life churches there would probably be 25 churches claiming to have "the finger of Tira Miron" or whatever. From what I recall of the Tira Miron story (I forget if it's described in the core book, Five Nations, or Faiths of Eberron), Tira Miron "died" fighting the Rakshasa imprisoned at Flamekeep, along with the not-named Couatl. Since Tira Miron bodily jumped into the Silver Flame, I'm not sure you'd likely find her remains "available" as relics. Unless she went into the final battle rather gratuitously maimed (missing an arm, eye, or fingers) or whatnot. It is conceivable, however, that there might be a few interesting relics - maybe her broken and discarded shield, fragments of armor, or even bits of bloodied earth (though keeping straight whose bloodstains were whose might be tricky). Arrows! I bet there's dozens of Tira Miron's arrows (broken, or fully intact, or just arrowheads) that remain. As the bow/arrow is the Silver Flame's symbol, those would make exceptional relics. Imagine what long list of items a high-level Paladin might march into epic battle with, and what was likely used up, destroyed, or discarded during the battle. Lots of that stuff would become relics. Tira's sword, Kloinjer would make a pretty slick relic, too - but it's "buried" in the Silver Flame as well... That said, there's there's plenty of alternative highly regarded "heroes"/saints of the Silver Flame from which relics could come from. For instance, there's the one cleric from Sharn that was martyred during the Silver Purge, torn apart by were-creatures (he's mentioned in the Sharn sourcebook). I can imagine a few relics remaining of him. There's definitely a precedent for pilgrimage sites, so you could build from there, too. For instance, the aforementioned Silver Flame cleric in Sharn has a small shrine dedicated to him that is a destination for a sizeable number of pilgrimages. There's the Face of Tira, too. One shrine I "invented" for my campaign was the supposed site from which Tira mined the ore for Kloinjer, and the adjoining underground cave/spring where Kloinjer was supposedly forged (after being shown the location in a vision). I forget exactly where I placed it - near Sigilstar? I'll have to check my notes... In any case, it's the pilgrimage site for Silver Flame artisans, and especially smiths. The cave entrance has a small altar at its mouth, but it's fenced off from the general public. Most pilgrims leave offerings by reaching through the fence and placing the item on or near the altar. I hinted a bit that the shrine lay at the bottom of a deep depression - perhaps a millennias-old meteor crater. My PCs...being PCs, decided to break into the shrine, and enter the cave. Inside, they found a pool, fed by an underground spring, and some ancient rusted-over foundry tools (a mound of rusty mud that had a rusty ancient anvil underneath). The self-important Paladin of the Silver Flame ended up spending the night there... Although given the Flamic religions propensity for cremation maybe relics would be considered spooky rather than precious? Not that seemingly contradictory behaviors can't take place in a culture. The keeping of relics, for example could harken back to ancient Galifaran or even Sarlonan (e.g. Rhiavhaar or Pyrine) culture and be a strong enough tradition to take place within a culture where cremation is typical. Anyways, not sure, but input is appreciated. I think the details would relate more to whose remains they are. Maybe the ashes of Saint Whosey-Whatsey are a big deal (he died of old age at a Silver Flame Monestary, was cremated...). By the same token, the head of Guy Martyr the Paladin - who was captured and mostly eaten by rampaging demons after killing most of them - may be revered. Perhaps the myth goes that even after death, he uttered a invocation that destroyed/banished/weakened the demons so someone else could finish them off. And besides, relics are a big deal in the Roman Catholic church, which is a great place to mine ideas for when it comes to the Church of the Silver Flame. I forget where I read it, but apparently all Catholic cathedrals have a reliquary of some kind, by papal decree. And that's just way too cool an idea...