War Crimes

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

accuser

Sep 30, 2010 19:03:04

What, exactly, are the types of things one would do to be classified as a war criminal in Eberron?

I know, for instance, that the Order of the Emerald Claw are considered war criminals, but I don't know what they're thought to have done.

I can think of a number of things that were pretty unsavory about the Last War, but I don't think they were classified as war crimes.  The creation and enslavement of the Warforged, for instance.

General examples would be good. I'm potentially playing a member of the Basilisk's Gaze in an upcoming game, is the reason I ask.

#2

ChrisTheS

Sep 30, 2010 20:39:02
Anything that qualifies as a war crime in the real world (cruelty to prisoners, genocide, attacks against civilian populations, destruction of essential natural resources, slave labor, being on the losing side, etc.)

Attacking Thronehold would be a big one.  The destruction of the White Arch Bridge would probably also qualify, except that it's a bit late for that.  There are a couple cases of razing cities in Aundair that people have been tried for.  Attacks on Dragonmarked House holdings would also count (although the person's own government is probably likely to try that purely on the grounds of maintaining relations with the House).
#3

naturax

Oct 01, 2010 8:42:44
Check out the Dragon issue that features Dreadhold (paizo.com/dragon/products/issues/2006/v5...) - it mentions a Brelish general who started killing civilians or something. It's worth looking up even though I can't remember the details off the top of my head.
#4

focusgents

Oct 01, 2010 11:14:42
while actual crimes listed under the Geneva Convention are a good start, you want to remember that war crimes can also be a convenient excuse to round up dissidents. the Treaty was written and signed by the elite, and if no one else cared, they could have enrolled anyone they wanted in the secret Basilisk's Gaze rolls. 

in my campaign, i'll be using a cousin of Prince Oargev, since one of the PC's is a Medani heir. i think there will be some ambiguity about "following orders" and personal gain, nowhere near a cut-and-dry case of war crimes. 
#5

lancer2010

Oct 01, 2010 17:37:57
In the Heirs of Ash trilogy, they mentioned a Thrane general who attacked Vathirond and killed a number of civilians.

So yeah, massacre of civilians, prisoners of war, needlessly wasting lives, and more things I can't even think of.
#6

zeropoint

Oct 01, 2010 18:38:28
There are other things that might be considered war crimes.

- Dressing soldiers in the uniform of the enemy to sow confusion, for instance. Perhaps the use of shapeshifters as assassins is considered a war crime.
- The use of mind dominating magic.
- Assassination of civilian leadership as part of a military strategy would certainly be considered a crime by the victims' country.
- Attacks on civilian vessels (sea or sky-going) marked clearly as such would probably be considered a war crime.
- The use of child soldiers.
- In real war combatants are required to be uniformed (the rules of war are surprisingly strict, and often flouted :P). Since mindless creatures can't be uniformed, perhaps employing them in combat is considered a crime. For instance, releasing a swarm of starved monstrous spiders on an invading regiment.
- Using biological weapons, such as infectious undead, especially on a civilian population.

If I think of more I'll post. 
#7

accuser

Oct 01, 2010 19:14:15
Thanks for the suggestions, all.  Especially ZeroPoint.
#8

Sarlax

Oct 03, 2010 13:32:35
My recent Eberron game was about a secret group that, among other things, rounded up war criminals. One thing to keep in mind is that war crimes will have to be quite terrible to be prosecuted as a general matter because of Darguun. I think it's Forge of War that notes that the goblins didn't have a concept of war crimes until the Five Nations explained it to them during the writing of the treaty of Thronehold.
#9

ChrisTheS

Oct 04, 2010 13:16:09
It depends who's doing the prosecuting... hypothetically, if Thrane could get ahold of a notorious Karrn necromancer who had carted off all casualties from a battlefield (not just Karrns) to be reanimated as zombie troops, they'd happily prosecute (and execute) him for war crimes, whereas Aundair or Breland would probably just lobby for reparations.
#10

Sarlax

Oct 13, 2010 18:28:50
It depends who's doing the prosecuting... hypothetically, if Thrane could get ahold of a notorious Karrn necromancer who had carted off all casualties from a battlefield (not just Karrns) to be reanimated as zombie troops, they'd happily prosecute (and execute) him for war crimes, whereas Aundair or Breland would probably just lobby for reparations.


It's definitely true that the prosecutor matters. Keep in mind, however, that no one won the Last War. In real life, one thing that facilitated the Nuremberg Trials was that Germany lost. In an alternate reality in which, say, Japan defeated the US, internment might have been prosecuted as a war crime by the Japanese.

This isn't to start a debate about real history and politics, but only to demonstrate that a successful war crime prosecution basically requires that the defendant is a citizen of a nation that lost the war. His nation of origin is defeated and has no power to claim him from the prosecutor.

Khorvaire 998 YK isn't like that. Karrnath would probably perceive the execution of one of its citizens by Thrane as murder and an act of war.

I think you'll only see people openly labeled as war criminals when 1) There is a universal standard among all signatories to the Treaty that the defendant's behavior was immoral, and 2) When the defendant's own country has publicly condemned his behavior.

Of course, you might still see secret trials. If the Karrn animator happened to fall into the hands of the Thranes, I'm sure they'd happily hold a trial and execute him. Indeed, Karrnath might secretly turn over someone like this to Thrane in order to facilitate its other interests (trade with Thrane, for instance).
#11

Madfox11

Oct 14, 2010 4:21:23
I think you'll only see people openly labeled as war criminals when 1) There is a universal standard among all signatories to the Treaty that the defendant's behavior was immoral, and 2) When the defendant's own country has publicly condemned his behavior.

Of course, you might still see secret trials. If the Karrn animator happened to fall into the hands of the Thranes, I'm sure they'd happily hold a trial and execute him. Indeed, Karrnath might secretly turn over someone like this to Thrane in order to facilitate its other interests (trade with Thrane, for instance).

The last case is probably one of those times number 2 happens. When the crime is hineous enough for a nation to publically condemn the behavior being the best for both internal and external PR. The necromancer probably did nothing truly terrible in the eyes of the Karnn. On the other hand, if that necromancer also commited crimes against the Karnn, it becomes a nice way to punish the necromancer and at the same time make a good name with the other nations.

#12

ChrisTheS

Oct 14, 2010 10:43:34
The necromancer probably did nothing truly terrible in the eyes of the Karnn.


In the eyes of the Karrn government.  Many (if not most) of the Karrn people aren't fans of necromancy themselves, and only accept it as a practical necessity... and even then, only because the Ministry of Propaganda (whatever it's called) has portrayed it as a great patriotic sacrifice.  Animating the corpses of other nations might be seen to devalue that sacrifice, and so it becomes a great PR move to let the Thrane have their way with this 'offender'.

Also, I think it fits the spirit of D&D better to have war criminals being poached by bounty hunters and brought back to the offended nations for trials secret or non - and since the nations of which those criminals are citizens are doing exactly the same thing, there's not much they can do to protest