Warforged Demographics - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Warforged Demographics

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bluepuffoflogic
Mar 21, 2010 5:21:05 I have recently been contemplating starting up an Eberron campaign. I recently came upon the campaign setting and took a great liking to it. There are many great resources for the attention-to-detail types like myself, such as the relative makeup of populations, etc. However, an important question arose between myself and a much more experienced (in Eberron, that is) player who is a friend of mine. The question arose when I was skimming over some info on Karrnath in the Campaign Guide. It stated that Karrnath has used Warforged to make up its labor shortage. This confused me, because in a nation of perhaps 2.5 million, how could a small number of Warforged accomplish anything meaningful in the arena of labor? Even assuming the unlikely possibility that they are 10x as productive as human, a few thousand even would be neglible. This brought us to the unresolved question, which even my experienced friend was stumped by.

How many Warforged are there?

I've searched high and low, and have found almost nothing relevant to their numbers! From the reading I had done, I was under the impression there were relatively few Warforged in Eberron. The 4.0 Campaign Guide states that a contingent of Warforged follow the Lord of Blades. This is said to be a small-ish group, perhaps a thousand. If this constitutes 1%, or even .1% of the Warforged population, their numbers are perhaps 10,000-100,000. This, divided among the 5(4) Nations is not all that much at all! To further support this, the greatest number of Warforged were in Cyre, which obviously was obliterated by the Mourning. Presumably this took a great deal of the Warforged with it, as it deformed other machines into twisted hulks. The other principle users were Thrane and Breland, both of which were in a large battle against Cyre just prior to the Mourning. How many of those nations' Warforged fell there, or in the Mourning? In my conception of Eberron, Warforged were rarities, which would further explain their low status among Humans, as they would be strange abominations. My friend had always assumed they populated Khorvaire in excess, what with the Last War ending and the legions of Warforged released from service. I countered this with simple economics: how many Warforged could Cannith realistically produce, and more importantly, how many could the cash-strapped nations of Eberron afford? In historical warfare, vast legions of men were usually untrained, poorly equipped auxillaries, aiding a core of elite fighters. I assumed the Warforged was this elite few. Either of these interpretations fundamentally alters the tone of both an Eberron campaign (i.e. would the farmer human be awestruck by seeing a warforged or does every farm employ one?) and more especially the playing of a Warforged character. Perhaps this is something left open-ended intentionally, like so much of Eberron? This would be fine, perhaps preferrable. However, if there is a canon answer, I would like to know it!
#2
ReasonForTreason
Mar 21, 2010 6:24:00 Mmmh, interesting question...
As far as I remember, The "Forge Of War" answers a couple of these questions, at least in regards to the Soldier-Warforged. You can find a lot of info about the different regiments in there, including detailed numbers. But the Warforged as a people? I honestly don't know.

But thinking about it, civil-service Warforged do make some sense to me. With the majority of the (male) population off to poke others with pointy sticks, you'd have to substitute all the farmers with someone. Either with girls, or (maybe because of fantasy equality), in our case, with the Warforged. Carrying boxes or mucking out stables doesn't require extensive training, and they don't need water/food. The latter especially interesting for the Karrns with all their crop failures and famines. The machines don't eat the stuff they should transport :-)
The Undead aren't a good solution either, they tend to spoil water supplies with... droppings...like eyes and suchs

In "my Eberron" The LOBster in the mournland is a veritable Warlord with a couple thousand followers. Think of terrorist training camps if you like, just without the headgear. An army of that size that does not need to sleep, eat or heal is a pretty potential thread should they decide to go to town and party.

Still, I can't give you any numbers; there are as much Warforged as I need to have :-) I tend to stick them in a bar for flavour, or make them ageless dockworkers in the scenery. There are quite a lot of them around, in my mind. If you wanna do the math game, how about going through the old campaign guide and check the "Other Races" %-Section for each and every city mentioned. Half the estimated numbers and you have the number of Warforged - now add them all together :-)
#3
Alas
Mar 21, 2010 7:19:32 Canonical information in 4th edition, not so much.

In 3rd edition's The Forge of War (Wyatt, Baur & Marmell, 2007), we hear that:
"Six years after the creation of the titans, House Cannith perfected the modern-era warforged... House Cannith began selling warforged by the score, by the hundreds, and in later years by the thousands." (page 32)

"With a functioning and well-maintained creation forge, a Cannith artificer can craft a dozen warforged for a cost comparable to that of a single shield guardian," or about 10,000 gp for twelve. The process is noted to benefit from mass production-- cheaper to make by the dozen than singly. (page 100)

Warforged were commonly fielded in squads of 8 (plus a human sergeant and a magewright "mechanic"). "These squads were integrated into regular platoons of living soldiers, although platoons and sometimes entire companies of warforged (except for the commanders) could be found in some armies." It's worth noting that companies in the Five Nations could range from 80 to 120 people. (page 101)

Prices don't quite work out the same from edition to edition, but there's still some ideas that can carry over:
The more the war dragged on, the better Cannith got at crafting warforged. Smarter, more effective, and most importantly: cheaper. Especially as war fatigue set in and demand increased, Cannith could have been churning them out. I also like to think that buying a unit was rarely a cash-up-front deal. Cannith and its guilds were dealing with national governments--they could afford to do things on credit, or for trade considerations to be resolved later.

Warforged units were most often mixed in with other units at the platoon level. That level of interaction would have given tons of veterans daily contact with warforged. Shared battle experience doesn't automatically mean friendship, but familiarity and first-hand knowledge will pre-empt many forms of fear and distrust.

Not mentioned before but worth considering: after the war, House Cannith is in disarray. The main sales records and contracts would have been in Cyre; the surviving records are in the hands of competing factions. It's possible that short of a census (and who's ready for that?), nobody can know how many warforged are out there now.

For my campaign, I treat the warforged like any small but very visible minority that's been moving in for a few decades. Very few people in my campaign have seen a kalashtar, or would even know when they're looking at one. However, almost everybody has seen a warforged and/or can describe one for you, even if there aren't any residing in the immediate village.

#4
Ogiwan
Mar 21, 2010 14:55:10 I think an important thing to remember is that the population statistics in the 3e Eberron Campaign Setting have been quite thoroughly proven to be far too small. Keith Baker wanted Eberron to be a smaller (in terms of miles) world, but Wizards overrode him and increased the size without increasing the population, resulting in a population density that's far too low.

Still, the population percentages are correct. Just increase the populations to a level that you like.

Hm.

Gahhh i hate you. I should be reading, not calculating demographics......

Well, I started doing some calculations, but the old ECS lumps 'forged in the "Other" category, which means that any attempt to divulge the number of active 'forged involves a lot of guesswork.

#5
bluepuffoflogic
Mar 23, 2010 5:12:32 Thank you for your well-thought-out posts! That actually really helps, and to some degree really reinforces what I had already thought.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bluepuffoflogic Mar 21, 2010 5:21:05	I have recently been contemplating starting up an Eberron campaign. I recently came upon the campaign setting and took a great liking to it. There are many great resources for the attention-to-detail types like myself, such as the relative makeup of populations, etc. However, an important question arose between myself and a much more experienced (in Eberron, that is) player who is a friend of mine. The question arose when I was skimming over some info on Karrnath in the Campaign Guide. It stated that Karrnath has used Warforged to make up its labor shortage. This confused me, because in a nation of perhaps 2.5 million, how could a small number of Warforged accomplish anything meaningful in the arena of labor? Even assuming the unlikely possibility that they are 10x as productive as human, a few thousand even would be neglible. This brought us to the unresolved question, which even my experienced friend was stumped by. How many Warforged are there? I've searched high and low, and have found almost nothing relevant to their numbers! From the reading I had done, I was under the impression there were relatively few Warforged in Eberron. The 4.0 Campaign Guide states that a contingent of Warforged follow the Lord of Blades. This is said to be a small-ish group, perhaps a thousand. If this constitutes 1%, or even .1% of the Warforged population, their numbers are perhaps 10,000-100,000. This, divided among the 5(4) Nations is not all that much at all! To further support this, the greatest number of Warforged were in Cyre, which obviously was obliterated by the Mourning. Presumably this took a great deal of the Warforged with it, as it deformed other machines into twisted hulks. The other principle users were Thrane and Breland, both of which were in a large battle against Cyre just prior to the Mourning. How many of those nations' Warforged fell there, or in the Mourning? In my conception of Eberron, Warforged were rarities, which would further explain their low status among Humans, as they would be strange abominations. My friend had always assumed they populated Khorvaire in excess, what with the Last War ending and the legions of Warforged released from service. I countered this with simple economics: how many Warforged could Cannith realistically produce, and more importantly, how many could the cash-strapped nations of Eberron afford? In historical warfare, vast legions of men were usually untrained, poorly equipped auxillaries, aiding a core of elite fighters. I assumed the Warforged was this elite few. Either of these interpretations fundamentally alters the tone of both an Eberron campaign (i.e. would the farmer human be awestruck by seeing a warforged or does every farm employ one?) and more especially the playing of a Warforged character. Perhaps this is something left open-ended intentionally, like so much of Eberron? This would be fine, perhaps preferrable. However, if there is a canon answer, I would like to know it!
#2 ReasonForTreason Mar 21, 2010 6:24:00	Mmmh, interesting question... As far as I remember, The "Forge Of War" answers a couple of these questions, at least in regards to the Soldier-Warforged. You can find a lot of info about the different regiments in there, including detailed numbers. But the Warforged as a people? I honestly don't know. But thinking about it, civil-service Warforged do make some sense to me. With the majority of the (male) population off to poke others with pointy sticks, you'd have to substitute all the farmers with someone. Either with girls, or (maybe because of fantasy equality), in our case, with the Warforged. Carrying boxes or mucking out stables doesn't require extensive training, and they don't need water/food. The latter especially interesting for the Karrns with all their crop failures and famines. The machines don't eat the stuff they should transport :-) The Undead aren't a good solution either, they tend to spoil water supplies with... droppings...like eyes and suchs In "my Eberron" The LOBster in the mournland is a veritable Warlord with a couple thousand followers. Think of terrorist training camps if you like, just without the headgear. An army of that size that does not need to sleep, eat or heal is a pretty potential thread should they decide to go to town and party. Still, I can't give you any numbers; there are as much Warforged as I need to have :-) I tend to stick them in a bar for flavour, or make them ageless dockworkers in the scenery. There are quite a lot of them around, in my mind. If you wanna do the math game, how about going through the old campaign guide and check the "Other Races" %-Section for each and every city mentioned. Half the estimated numbers and you have the number of Warforged - now add them all together :-)
#3 Alas Mar 21, 2010 7:19:32	Canonical information in 4th edition, not so much. In 3rd edition's The Forge of War (Wyatt, Baur & Marmell, 2007), we hear that: "Six years after the creation of the titans, House Cannith perfected the modern-era warforged... House Cannith began selling warforged by the score, by the hundreds, and in later years by the thousands." (page 32) "With a functioning and well-maintained creation forge, a Cannith artificer can craft a dozen warforged for a cost comparable to that of a single shield guardian," or about 10,000 gp for twelve. The process is noted to benefit from mass production-- cheaper to make by the dozen than singly. (page 100) Warforged were commonly fielded in squads of 8 (plus a human sergeant and a magewright "mechanic"). "These squads were integrated into regular platoons of living soldiers, although platoons and sometimes entire companies of warforged (except for the commanders) could be found in some armies." It's worth noting that companies in the Five Nations could range from 80 to 120 people. (page 101) Prices don't quite work out the same from edition to edition, but there's still some ideas that can carry over: The more the war dragged on, the better Cannith got at crafting warforged. Smarter, more effective, and most importantly: cheaper. Especially as war fatigue set in and demand increased, Cannith could have been churning them out. I also like to think that buying a unit was rarely a cash-up-front deal. Cannith and its guilds were dealing with national governments--they could afford to do things on credit, or for trade considerations to be resolved later. Warforged units were most often mixed in with other units at the platoon level. That level of interaction would have given tons of veterans daily contact with warforged. Shared battle experience doesn't automatically mean friendship, but familiarity and first-hand knowledge will pre-empt many forms of fear and distrust. Not mentioned before but worth considering: after the war, House Cannith is in disarray. The main sales records and contracts would have been in Cyre; the surviving records are in the hands of competing factions. It's possible that short of a census (and who's ready for that?), nobody can know how many warforged are out there now. For my campaign, I treat the warforged like any small but very visible minority that's been moving in for a few decades. Very few people in my campaign have seen a kalashtar, or would even know when they're looking at one. However, almost everybody has seen a warforged and/or can describe one for you, even if there aren't any residing in the immediate village.
#4 Ogiwan Mar 21, 2010 14:55:10	I think an important thing to remember is that the population statistics in the 3e Eberron Campaign Setting have been quite thoroughly proven to be far too small. Keith Baker wanted Eberron to be a smaller (in terms of miles) world, but Wizards overrode him and increased the size without increasing the population, resulting in a population density that's far too low. Still, the population percentages are correct. Just increase the populations to a level that you like. Hm. Gahhh i hate you. I should be reading, not calculating demographics...... Well, I started doing some calculations, but the old ECS lumps 'forged in the "Other" category, which means that any attempt to divulge the number of active 'forged involves a lot of guesswork.
#5 bluepuffoflogic Mar 23, 2010 5:12:32	Thank you for your well-thought-out posts! That actually really helps, and to some degree really reinforces what I had already thought.