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| #1aeryk08Feb 26, 2010 11:38:29 | I'm thinking about running an Eberron game where all the PCs are warforged and different ways of making each one unique. I like the idea of components and think there should be some more mundane variants things like the armblade, battlefist, etc. Also I was thinking about running this in a secret Cannith outpost in the Frostfell. At first I assumed that warforged were immune to the effects of cold and would be a natural fit, but it seems Karnnathi undead would be better equipped for this (though not as intelligent). So I'm thinking they run experiments here to modify warforged for the cold and ice. I came across a climbing claws component that helps also with balance which could help climbing/walking over ice. And there was an energy resistance disc component, but this seems a bit expensive to put in low level characters. So I'm thinking they gathered experienced warforged (probably 2nd level) from the battlefields Last War that were deactivated, to get more return for their investment. Also was there mention somewhere of elves living in the Frostfell? I'm thinking another variant like drow living underground to help survive the cold. Maybe they've discovered a manifest zone to the Fernia underground like the Aerenal manifest zone to Irian. Actually a connection to Lammania would be interesting, forcing plants to grow in the icy tundra. What kinds of animals would they breed? And a connection to lycanthropes, that would give the Silver Flame a reason to be there. EDIT: I'm thinking of Icegaunt Island as Iceland (and the main Frostfell plane as Greenland), so maybe some kind of (magical) geothermal energy is used. I guess a manifest zone to Fernia is the obvious choice, but I like the idea of Lammania. So maybe this has more to do with Khyber shards with trapped fire elementals...hm. |
| #2HellcowFeb 27, 2010 7:39:30 | I'm thinking about running an Eberron game where all the PCs are warforged and different ways of making each one unique. If ALL the PCs are warforged, I'd personally cosmetically tie class abilities to the fact that they are warforged. Have the Warforged Barbarian physically shift into "battle mode" when raging. Have the sorcerer have wands embedded (permanently) into his forearms, powered by his lifeforce; he's not simply a warforged who studied magic, he's a warforged built to be an arcane fire support unit. Again, this is purely cosmetic; the sorcerer can't take his wands out and hand them to other PCs. But I'm all for cosmetic modification where appropriate. The Warforged Warden could be tied to nature, or he could be a special combat unit - Font of Life being a super-charged repair system; Eyes of the Eagle being heightened sensory capabilities; the various forms being designed battle-modes. Just a thought. |
| #3aeryk08Feb 27, 2010 20:17:54 | I'm thinking about running an Eberron game where all the PCs are warforged and different ways of making each one unique. I like this idea. Thanks Hellcow. I was also thinking the PCs could discover new embedded items in their body as they gain more experience. Maybe a warforged wizard can have a docent like object as their spellbook, which gives them access to more spells as the warforged's mind can handle it (i.e. as they level). I've been struggling with making sense of the warforged spell caster needing to rest for 8 hours. Especially since this cancels out the benefit of warforged unit being able to force march night and day. I've heard something similar to the idea of letting them do non-strenuous actions during this time, so at least they could keep moving, if not pushing themselves for those 8 hours. But maybe I can use the docent idea, but the docent needs to recharge magic and can hold more over time (as they level). Or make it a connection to a plane of magic that needs to be reestablished each day and shuts off after so many hours (or at midnight). I haven't heard of the Warforged Warden before. Looks like this was introduced in 4e? I'll have to check it out. |
| #4Madfox11Mar 01, 2010 4:42:55 | Wardens are a new class in 4E. They are primal defenders, the paladins of nature so to speak. Their main-abilities involve taking on the aspects of a nature-spirit during a fight (their dailies are anyway) such as that of a tree, an ice-warrior, a panther, and so on. I know there is a 3E prestige class for warforged druids, which is a good way to redescribe warforged 3E druids and rangers in the first place. Note that there is something very dangerous in the Frostfell. The dwarves according to myth fled from it, and there are some references to expeditions disappearing and crystal-warforged guarding some kind of evil spirit. |
| #5aeryk08Mar 01, 2010 13:24:35 | Wardens are a new class in 4E. They are primal defenders, the paladins of nature so to speak. Their main-abilities involve taking on the aspects of a nature-spirit during a fight (their dailies are anyway) such as that of a tree, an ice-warrior, a panther, and so on. I know there is a 3E prestige class for warforged druids, which is a good way to redescribe warforged 3E druids and rangers in the first place. Thanks for the info. The warforged warden sounds interesting. I noticed that House Cannith and druids aren't supposed to get along well. And I was thinking how the question of warforged souls and creation is similar to using the druid spell awaken (if it worked on stone and metal also). Does the greatpine Oalian have a soul? I'd like incorporate druids into Cannith (at least in this outpost). I think they make intersting villians anyway. I hadn't heard about crystal warforged (psiforged?) being involved in Frostfell, but that's interesting. I definitely envision vast fields of khyber dragonshards keeping the rajahs at bay. As far as dwarves, I've always seen the Azer as the original dwarves coming here from another plane (Fernia, I guess in Eberron's case). The Frostfell doesn't seem the most logical place for them to appear, but flaming dwarves trudging through melting snow is a great visual. And that would certainly keep them warm. Maybe they appeared deep underground in the heat of Khyberian lava fields and slowly made their way to the surface. |
| #6Madfox11Mar 02, 2010 4:38:13 | In regards to druids and Cannith, traditional druids probably would not get along very well with the traditional Cannith magewright. In D&D though there is always space for the exception though. For example, in RL technicians copies a lot of great inventions from nature. A Cannith druid who examines nature for such things would be a great concept (and one I might actually use if I ever am going to make a new character for an Eberron campaign) ;) There are actually frostfell (icy) dwarves in 3E material. In 4E material dwarves have been slaves of elemental giants for ages, and they basically turned azer, galeb duhr and these icy dwarves as orignating from meddling by giants. That story can easily be used in Eberron since the Eberron giants have definitely meddled with eladrin, creating the elves. Some cite the fact that there are no dwarves native to Xen'drik as an argument against this aspect, but in itself I find that a bit weak. We don't know how many dwarves there have been, and for all we know, it might have been giants who chased the giants from the Frostfell continent*. The psiforged reference to Frostfell and the bad thing in that area is from a 3E material, I think it was from the Explorer's Handbook (seems the most likely place), but I am not sure. * Personally I have always wondered why the giants stuck to Xen'drik. Why are there no ruins on Sarlona or Khorvaire? Are humans (and to a lesser extend elves) really that unique in their eagerness to explore and to colonize other continents? |
| #7SarlaxMar 02, 2010 17:08:17 | There might be any number of reasons why the giants aren't presently established on other continents. Since giants had their big civilization on Xen'drik, I'll assume that's their native land. First, before giants were taught magic, ocean travel would have been pretty difficult for them. Engineering ships capable of carrying them in numbers (and with sufficient resources) to colonize other continents would have been very difficult. Second, again before magic, other lands probably had competing civilizations. We know Argo was already taken by the dragons, for instance. Khorvaire and Sarlona may have been held by other creatures who are now long forgotten. Third, once the dragons taught magic to the giants, all bets were off. I've always assumed that the dragons taught the giants magic so they'd be equipped to deal with the quori invasion centuries later. They wouldn't want the giants to get out of control, so they may have taught the giants in such a way that their culture wasn't expanionist - or perhaps the magic they taught could only be used on Xen'drik. Once they had it, they would never want to leave the continent. Fourth, Xen'drik seems to have an abundance of Khyber shards. Perhaps their presence bound the giants to Xen'drik psychologically. |
| #8khiftMar 02, 2010 18:59:52 | The giants didn't stick to Xendrik. They made small colonies on Khorvaire and Sarlona each. Once the giant empire in Xendrik fell those colonies lost their overseas support and collapsed thsemselves, but there's definitely official mention of giant colonies within those continents during the Age of Giants. (Although I don't remember where that mention was.) |
| #9Madfox11Mar 03, 2010 4:26:58 | The giants had the magic to create floating cities, and it existed for millenia. I sincerely doubt that building ships capable to carry them were that much of a challenge. I probably am going to stick with the reasoning that the will to explore and conquer the sea and continents beyond is probably a human thing ;) |
| #10aeryk08Mar 03, 2010 12:48:22 | There are actually frostfell (icy) dwarves in 3E material. In 4E material dwarves have been slaves of elemental giants for ages, and they basically turned azer, galeb duhr and these icy dwarves as orignating from meddling by giants. That story can easily be used in Eberron since the Eberron giants have definitely meddled with eladrin, creating the elves. Some cite the fact that there are no dwarves native to Xen'drik as an argument against this aspect, but in itself I find that a bit weak. We don't know how many dwarves there have been, and for all we know, it might have been giants who chased the giants from the Frostfell continent*. I can see at least a small group of giants wanting to get away from the war of Xen'drik, even move to the most remote place on the planet. Probably a group wanting a place to practice their own beliefs (something like the ancient druids in RL possibly even wandering to America). All it would take is one epic level wizard that could teleport a small group there (maybe passing through another plane, I assume the Giants did more planar travel). And so on the frozen plane they met with the native inhabitants, the dwarves (or for me, possibly they plucked a suitable race from another plane: either the Azer from Fernia and worked their magic to make them fit the new environment, or they found the "ice dwarves" in Risia and experimented on them). And the cultural idea of a slave race didn't have to leave them, but maybe they had a different relationship with their slaves. |
| #11SarlaxMar 03, 2010 13:49:23 | The giants had the magic to create floating cities, and it existed for millenia. I sincerely doubt that building ships capable to carry them were that much of a challenge. Again, I posited that engineering ships for giants was problematic before they were taught dragon magic. After magic, it's plausible that dragons were manipulating giants to keep them from becoming too powerful, including by preventing them from leaving Xen'drik in huge numbers. I probably am going to stick with the reasoning that the will to explore and conquer the sea and continents beyond is probably a human thing ;) The elves did it (Xen'drik to Aerenal) and dwarves did it (Frostfell to Khorvaire). If I recall correctly, the yuan-ti did it (Sarlona to Argonessan, perhaps?). There's indications that the dragonborn did it too. Crossing oceans to unknown continents is a pretty big deal. It's probable that many of Eberron's races tried it but weren't successful. They might have crossed the sea only to be eaten by giants or stabbed by goblins. Perhaps they created colonies that just couldn't make it, like the Viking colonies of North America. A lot of the history of colonization in Eberron has probably been buried in the world's extremely long history. Goblins may very well have colonized chunks of Xen'drik, but with the bizarre effects of that land's lingering magical fallout, they've been lost - there might be a Dhakaani colony deep in the jungles somewhere, preserved like a time capsule of their culture for thousands of years. In fact, there's really only one continent that can be emigrated to successfully now, and that's Khorvaire. Argo is full of dragons, Xen'drik is too chaotic, and Sarlona is policed by the Inspired. Most past emigration is simply too difficult to detect - maybe goblins or orcs actually evolved on other continents but got to Khorvaire 100,000 years ago. Of course, humans are also prone to success in such things since they are The Mario. An extra feat, extra skill, and fast life cycle means it's very easy for humans to adapt to any place they go. |
| #12Madfox11Mar 04, 2010 2:57:25 | The elves did it (Xen'drik to Aerenal) and dwarves did it (Frostfell to Khorvaire). If I recall correctly, the yuan-ti did it (Sarlona to Argonessan, perhaps?). There's indications that the dragonborn did it too. True, although the dwarves were not really successful until the humans appeared. Something nearly erridacted them from Khorvaire. Elves and yuan-ti only did so after extreme duress, and I would not call the yuan-ti particular successful. Neither was particular massive either, and one of them had at least some support at first from the dragons. Other than that, agreed. Still, humans are a bit odd in that they somehow triggered the development of the dragonmarks and only the races with a close tie with humans (elves being the potential exception) developed their own brand. |
| #13HellcowMar 04, 2010 11:25:54 | True, although the dwarves were not really successful until the humans appeared. Not entirely true. Check The Mror Dragonshard (www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/2...) or History DC 25 in the 4E ECG. The dwarves were doing just fine; what we think of as the dwarves were exiles thrown out of the dwarven kingdom. Something wiped out their subterranean kingdom - possibly the Daelkyr, possibly an Overlord, possibly something we know nothing about. But there was a time when the Ironroot dwarves were a power strong enough to stand against the Dhakaani. So the MROR dwarves took time to come into their own; but this doesn't reflect the dwarves as a species. |
| #14SarlaxMar 04, 2010 16:52:35 | Still, humans are a bit odd in that they somehow triggered the development of the dragonmarks and only the races with a close tie with humans (elves being the potential exception) developed their own brand. And that's a point for humans being the preeminent explorers - it wasn't dwarves who got the Mark of Passage. |
| #15Madfox11Mar 05, 2010 4:04:35 | True, although the dwarves were not really successful until the humans appeared. If you define 'successful' as having a thriving civilisation then I agree - the dwarves were successful. The biologist in me though says that a species which sticks to one relatively small and isolated spot is not really successful. It is too easy to be eradicated by a bad event, whether that is some kind of ancient evil or just a natural dissaster. The fact that the dwarves would have been extinct if they had not banished the others just proves that fact in my mind. It wasn't until the humans appeared that the dwarves spread out over the whole continent and that the existence of their species became independend of how they did in the Mror Holds. |
| #16HellcowMar 05, 2010 11:15:17 | If you define 'successful' as having a thriving civilisation then I agree - the dwarves were successful. The biologist in me though says that a species which sticks to one relatively small and isolated spot is not really successful. It is too easy to be eradicated by a bad event, whether that is some kind of ancient evil or just a natural dissaster. The fact that the dwarves would have been extinct if they had not banished the others just proves that fact in my mind. It wasn't until the humans appeared that the dwarves spread out over the whole continent and that the existence of their species became independend of how they did in the Mror Holds. Personally, I'm not convinced of this. We know that the seat of the ancient dwarven empire was underneath the Mror Holds. There is no evidence of this civilization on the surface; it was entirely subterranean. We know that the empire had fallen and its people had been erradicated by the time the Mror returned. We know that today, there are dwarves found throughout the region of the Five Nations and Lhazaar Principalities (and for that matter in Sarlona). Why should we assume that the underground civilization of the dwarves was limited to the Mror territory? Walk through the Mror Holds and you don't see any signs of the ancient empire that lies below... so what makes you so sure there aren't former dwarven settlements deep below Shavalant or Ghalt? Perhaps the dwarves of Breland came there from the Mror after humans came; or perhaps they are descended from families that fled from the depths in those last days of the empire, who have forgotten their history over the course of thousands of years of chaos and struggling to survive. Surely, an outpost under Shavalant wouldn't just be fighting Daelkyr and the threat of Overlords; it would have been clashing with the Dhakaan, and undoubtedly some of these far-flung pieces would have fallen to the Dhakaani. But we've never mapped out Khyber. There could be dwarven ruins scattered below Breland. Or... We know that the Dwarven nation below the MROR HOLDS fell. But are you so certain that this was the height of dwarven civilization? Again, a century ago no one would have believe that there were still clans holding the Dhakaani traditions, yet now we're seeing the Kech Volaar and other Heirs of Dhakaan. Can you be sure that there isn't a thriving dwarven realm deep below the Five Nations right now? A nation of runesmiths who've simply never felt the need to interact with the people of the surface? A nation whose artificers and warlocks have learned to tap the power of bound Overlords and use it as an energy source? Can you be so certain that the dwarf you're talking to now is the simple Brelish soldier he appears to be... that he's not in fact a spy for the great nation that lies below, evaluating the world an contemplating action on the surface? And if these dwarves are, say, using bound Overlords as energy sources... and if they have or had settlements below Cyre... can you be sure that the Mourning wasn't something to lay at their doorstep? Either an accident... or testing a terrible weapon, which might now be ready to be used again? I'm just saying... you never know what lurks in Khyber. It might not be wise to judge the dwarves as a species by the Mror alone. |
| #17Madfox11Mar 05, 2010 13:06:22 | True enough ;) That are some good ideas for a campaign ;) |
| #18AvonRekaesMar 05, 2010 13:15:45 | Great. Now all I can think about when I think of dwarves are molemen. Thanks Keith. |