Warforged Model - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Warforged Model

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
skritz_the_lizardmen
Apr 14, 2010 16:43:08 I was looking at various Eberron art when I realised how physically different each Warforged looked like. Sure, they share the same basic design, with the bulky composite body and mostly featureless head (except their unique Ghuldra). Monster Manual III mention how "most Warforged look the same to humans". Obviously, that is not the case since I have never seen two Warforged look even slightly the same. In fact, they are a rather varied race.

Is it simply artistic license from the illustrators? Or do Warforged extensively modify themselves to look so different? Or are there different type of model? Sure, we have Charger, Titan, Scout and "Regular" Warforged but the "Regular" Warforged look all very different to me.

Are there different types and model of Warforged, each with somewhat different physical appearance? I have seen some warforged with rather "unique" heads. Maybe each forge produce different physical traits (This imply such Warforged are somewhat like brothers).

Also, since Warforged feat are usually taken at level 1 (in 3.5, anyway...not sure for 4.0), it implies Warforged are built the way they are. Their plating (Normal, Mythral, Adamantine or otherwise) is part of their construction process is simply something they can't change. I wonder if their physical ability score are not also set a birth (well, they can increase with level but Warforged are an unusual breed of construct). What about their mental ability score? Are there Warforged built to be smart, while other are built to be dumb? Or is it something randomly determinated at birth? (This seems unlikely to me). Obviously, a smart but weak Warforged built with an adamantine plating would be a waste of money. So how far does the creation process go?
#2
g_o_d
Apr 14, 2010 17:29:00 You need to look at Warforged as the military hardware that they were created to be. To the standard civillian they would for the most part look the same like jets and tanks, but if you work around them all the time you start to spot the small differences. As for the artwork in the books; I would call that creative liscence. I'm not saying that there weren't prototypes and special orders made, but that these would be few and far between. A good example of prototypes are some of the bad guys from Keith Baker's Dreaming Dark series of books.
#3
skritz_the_lizardmen
Apr 14, 2010 20:07:25
You need to look at Warforged as the military hardware that they were created to be. To the standard civillian they would for the most part look the same like jets and tanks, but if you work around them all the time you start to spot the small differences. As for the artwork in the books; I would call that creative liscence. I'm not saying that there weren't prototypes and special orders made, but that these would be few and far between. A good example of prototypes are some of the bad guys from Keith Baker's Dreaming Dark series of books.

Obviously there are different types of Warforged. Adamantine-covered Warforged where obviously built to be heavy infantry or shock troop, if not outright meatshields (or is it metalshields?).

#4
dieffenbachj
Apr 15, 2010 11:14:46 Each warforged, IIRC, is born looking identical except for the symbol on their forehead.

However, from then on they begin being modified: they might have markings or colors installed to signify nationality, owner, rank, expertise, etc. They might be magically modified to use adamantine or mithral or have their plates removed entirely.

And lastly, warforged have the ability to subtly modify their own body with their personality, skill, and style. For instance, the spikes on the warforged juggernaut's body aren't welded or fresh, spiked plates: over time, the spikes just appeared.

However, 4E averts this entirely by allowing for a much more extensive system of body modification and component parts, meaning the implication ends up being more: Warforged start the same off the factory press; however, they can modify their body organically as before, but they can also completely swap out their metal plates, arms, install other components, and so on, leading to great physical variety.
#5
Alex_
Apr 15, 2010 14:49:19 Warforged can and do "grow" naturally over time. One of the big things about the Warforged Juggernaut was that the process didn't involve any outside interference. You grew spikes. You grew additional metal plates.

   Warforged are living. They may have wood, stone, and metal in place of hair, flesh, and bone, but that stuff can warp, stretch, grow, and change over time as if it were a living thing.

House Cannith actually succeeded in creating life. Mirroring in many ways the goals of real world alchemists in their desire to create life (particularly humans) in a lab.

EDIT: And I just realize that I'm just parroting what Deiff just said.
#6
Hellcow
Apr 15, 2010 22:04:02
You need to look at Warforged as the military hardware that they were created to be.

Obviously there are different types of Warforged. Adamantine-covered Warforged where obviously built to be heavy infantry or shock troop, if not outright meatshields (or is it metalshields?).

You're both correct. In my opinion, a warforged with Adamantine Plating and a warforged with Mithral Plating aren't simply identical warforged with different skin; they are different models of warforged developed for different purposes. The same thing applies to class; for a warforged, this can also be reflected by model. A warforged rogue or sorcerer didn't just start from base zero and learn those skills the way a human would; they were built with function in mind. Metagame, a warforged rogue has an 18 Dexterity because you chose to put it there. For a human, this would reflect athletic training; for a warforged, it likely reflects initial design.

Warforged have been around for thirty years, with constant efforts to improve them. They've been developed for a wider range of purposes over this time, as shown by the age-by-class chart in the 3.5 ECG. As such, you can assume that pictures of warforged with radically different appearances reflec tthe fact that the warforged in question were developed for different purposes. Pretty much anyone can tell the difference between an M1 tank and a jeep. The question is whether the civilian can recognize the difference between two M1s.

Personally, I consider the warforged shown on page 21 of the 3.5 ECG and page 32 of the 4E EPG to be the most common model of warforged.

Warforged can and do modify their appearance, and this helps people tell them apart. Look at the warforged on page 32, and you can see some minor differences. But it's easy enough for strangers to overlook them.
#7
Hellcow
Apr 15, 2010 22:07:21
Warforged can and do "grow" naturally over time. One of the big things about the Warforged Juggernaut was that the process didn't involve any outside interference. You grew spikes. You grew additional metal plates.

This is an excellent point, and I can't believe I overlooked it in my previous post. The Warforged Juggernaut is a perfect example of the fact that the warforged are living constructs. If you look at the minor differences in the warforged on page 32, some of those changes might be just this sort of thing - natural (well, magical) evolution over time. Nonetheless, look at those two warforged and imagine them trading gear and switching poses; strangers might not remember which one had the cross design on his codplate.
#8
skritz_the_lizardmen
Apr 16, 2010 11:05:06
You need to look at Warforged as the military hardware that they were created to be.

Obviously there are different types of Warforged. Adamantine-covered Warforged where obviously built to be heavy infantry or shock troop, if not outright meatshields (or is it metalshields?).

You're both correct. In my opinion, a warforged with Adamantine Plating and a warforged with Mithral Plating aren't simply identical warforged with different skin; they are different models of warforged developed for different purposes. The same thing applies to class; for a warforged, this can also be reflected by model. A warforged rogue or sorcerer didn't just start from base zero and learn those skills the way a human would; they were built with function in mind. Metagame, a warforged rogue has an 18 Dexterity because you chose to put it there. For a human, this would reflect athletic training; for a warforged, it likely reflects initial design.

So I was right. Nice! Thanks Keith.
#9
RedRider
Apr 16, 2010 13:42:16 Unless it violates some other element of setting logic, my tendency with any aspect of an RPG would be to go with the more interesting answer. Therefore, I'd say that warforged can look radically different based on the purpose they were built for, the year they were made and the individual forge they came from.
Suggestions that warforged can grow is also an interesting-ness increaser, so let's put that in. You can even say most warforged look the same as they did when they were created and still retain this element for special cases, an emerging trend or a unique property. (The mithril-steel skin of Tokamak the Infernal Warforged Warlock bears mystic runes which increase in number and change with complexity for every being killed under their curse.)

As for the "most Warforged look the same to humans" thing, for your average villager what's going to stand out most about them is that they're six foot tall metal humanoids, with small details being lost unless they've grown familiar with their prescence.
#10
Sarlax
Apr 16, 2010 17:36:13 There are also several creation forges scattered in different nations. Even two warforged with no functional differences might look quite different, especially given that they were bought by different nations. Warforged made in Sharn for Breland are going to likely look quite different than those made in and for Cyre. This could reflect the need to differentiate troops (different builds are akin to uniforms) or even simple style (compare WWII Nazi and Soviet uniform aesthetics for a example).
#11
Hellcow
Apr 17, 2010 0:06:17
This could reflect the need to differentiate troops (different builds are akin to uniforms) or even simple style (compare WWII Nazi and Soviet uniform aesthetics for a example).

Indeed. And bear in mind, this doesn't even require completely different models. Per 4E, warforged are designed for this sort of national customization, in the form of component armor. While I understand the rationale from a metagame concept, the idea of warforged wearing normal armor has never sat right with me. But I like the idea of component armor as reflecting the customizable outer plating of the warforged. In my campaign, warforged are forged with component armor, and think of it as a part of themselves. It's a part that can be replaced or modified, but they're very uncomfortable without it (unless, of course, they were designed without it... in which case it feels strange to wear it). In any case, this is where even warforged of the same model would be made with armor designed for the nation in question.

As a side note on this, when making warforged component armor I consider the stats of the armor as opposed to the description. IE, a warforged with component Hide armor could literally be wearing hide - an entertaining idea for a warforged monk of the Mockery making his own skin from his victims - but you could also describe the "Hide" armor as light plate. What's important is that it's +3 AC light armor with a -1 check penalty that counts as Hide for purposes of feats.

It does come back to what's interesting. Personally, *I* find it interesting to have the warforged be identifiable as weapons of war. I like the fact that a Rekkenmark officer can look at a warforged and say "You're one of the recon models assigned to the Third Legion of Atur, aren't you?" In terms of "People can't tell them apart", it's back to the idea that a civilian can tell the tank and the jeep apart, but he might not be able to tell two jeeps apart. Yes, if one is in Karrn colors and the other is in Cyran livery, a farmer won't mix the two of them up. But when a third one designed for the same function shows up also in Cyran livery, the personal differences could get lost.

Nonetheless - warforged can modify themselves. They can evolve physically. They can be rare or unusual models. They can have interesting unit or rank insignia. They can have lasting injuries from the war - perhaps even a limb that was lost and replaced with another that's slightly off in style. Moreso than any other character, with warforged PCs I want to know what the character did during the war - what they were designed for, who they fought for, how they feel about it. Perhaps they didn't fight; I've seen a warforged bouncer and a warforged butler as PCs. But they were made for a reason - what was that, and how is it reflected?
#12
Centauri
Apr 17, 2010 23:35:54 I haven't read everything about warforged, but I've sort of gathered the impression that even though they come out of "forges" and there are several different "models" they are a) not machines and b) not well-understood. House Cannith recovered the artifacts necessary for making them from Xen'drik, where the giants may have originated the race, and they can now implement it, but don't actually have mastery of the process. If I have that roughly right (and of course I can just make it right for my campaign, if I want) then it's easy to imagine that each warforged might come out looking slightly different from the last or the next, with different abilities. NPC warforged, by-and-large, might look, sound, and act a lot like each other, but warforged PCs, notable NPCs, and enemies are "special" somehow.
#13
elanthiscannith
Apr 18, 2010 3:50:18
(assumption 3.5 rules)
My character being a Cannith Artificer. I look at the Forged ones like this.

There are Four Primary Model Types.

The First type are ONLY warriors they were initially created by Merrix the First who made them based off of schema recovered from Xen`drik. The Titans fall in this Model of Forged ones.

The Second type was refined by his son Aarron about 30-some years ago, the same year that Merrix the Second was born. Most of this model has been destroyed over the past decades. These guys though make up the bulk of the Lord of Blades Troops. While still all of this type are either Fighters or Juggernaughts.

The Third type was created towards the end of the Last war once Merrix the Second took over the Forged ones Production. This type is the clear majority that most people know. They can be any class; they are the Fixer, Charger and Scout that most people have seen.

The Fourth type was also created by Merrix the Second, though it was under compulsion from an Inspired Lord, who then wiped the memory from him. These are the Psi-forged and Human-forged that one can read about if you search the net carefully. There are only a few hundred of this type around. All have been created in Sharn since the signing of the Treaty of Thornhold. (none of this is common knowledge, as even Merrix who created them has no memory of the act.)   This Model of forged ones are not however in league with the Inspired, they have gone there own way and follow neither Inspired or Kalistar traditions.. a neutral/unknown faction.

The creation process is very straightforwards.

1-Lay out the Wooden Bones.
2-Braid up strands of silk and hemp to make muscles.
3-Choose the Type and Profession of the Forged one. (base stats/ initial class)
4-Forge the Plating for their Bodies. (stone/wood/metal Armor)
5-Cast the six spells that call a spirit to inhabit the bodies.
6-Train them to harm none that bear the Marks of Making or a Signet of House Cannith
7-Train them to their initial Professions and Combat skills.
8-Keep them or sell them as per instructions.

_____________________

Of my companions we have two of the Forged ones. Both are type three, but they follow a very different training pattern.   Both started as Fighters, one has become a Juggernaut, the other a Holy Cleric.

They both followed steps 1-8 exactly the same way.   IT was a different responce to being captured by the Bladebearers that determined their advanced professions (multiclasses).

One of them has taken himself to become focused upon rule 6 and become my personial bodyguard/champion. He has also taken to wood shaping and carpentry because i know not those skills.

The other has focused upon rule 8 and will do anything to defend Galifar then Breland. He has taken up engineering, because i know that skill.

No two warforged can be created the same way, even if the exact same procedures are followed. The forged ones are as much a product of their environment as their initial nature.

Even within a small group there are variances in the forged ones.   It almost seems as though they are truly alive and not just a construction of our old forges.
____________________________________

As to your questions I will try to answer them (ignoring everything else in this thread for the now).

What about their mental ability score?

That is determined by step 3 above. All six of their ability scores are fluid until that point where they are fixed, Before the forged one are inhabited by a spirit.

Are there Warforged built to be smart, while other are built to be dumb?

Short answer is Yes. Long answer is yes they are all built to specifications determined in step 3 (using a point buy attribute character generation system) per the instructions of the client that wishes the forged ones.   For example an Artificer that Cannith will keep for themselves would be ALOT more Intelligent then a Fighter that was sent to Cyre.   The fighter only needed to be smart enough to understand battle orders AND obey them without question. The artificer needed to be smart enough to create new Forged ones.

Or is it something randomly determinated at birth?

It IS fixed Firmly in Step 3 of the creation process. Atleast for those of us that use a point by character generation system.   If however you use a random attribute generation system for characters in your campaign then yes both mental and physical attributes are determined randomly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 skritz_the_lizardmen Apr 14, 2010 16:43:08	I was looking at various Eberron art when I realised how physically different each Warforged looked like. Sure, they share the same basic design, with the bulky composite body and mostly featureless head (except their unique Ghuldra). Monster Manual III mention how "most Warforged look the same to humans". Obviously, that is not the case since I have never seen two Warforged look even slightly the same. In fact, they are a rather varied race. Is it simply artistic license from the illustrators? Or do Warforged extensively modify themselves to look so different? Or are there different type of model? Sure, we have Charger, Titan, Scout and "Regular" Warforged but the "Regular" Warforged look all very different to me. Are there different types and model of Warforged, each with somewhat different physical appearance? I have seen some warforged with rather "unique" heads. Maybe each forge produce different physical traits (This imply such Warforged are somewhat like brothers). Also, since Warforged feat are usually taken at level 1 (in 3.5, anyway...not sure for 4.0), it implies Warforged are built the way they are. Their plating (Normal, Mythral, Adamantine or otherwise) is part of their construction process is simply something they can't change. I wonder if their physical ability score are not also set a birth (well, they can increase with level but Warforged are an unusual breed of construct). What about their mental ability score? Are there Warforged built to be smart, while other are built to be dumb? Or is it something randomly determinated at birth? (This seems unlikely to me). Obviously, a smart but weak Warforged built with an adamantine plating would be a waste of money. So how far does the creation process go?
#2 g_o_d Apr 14, 2010 17:29:00	You need to look at Warforged as the military hardware that they were created to be. To the standard civillian they would for the most part look the same like jets and tanks, but if you work around them all the time you start to spot the small differences. As for the artwork in the books; I would call that creative liscence. I'm not saying that there weren't prototypes and special orders made, but that these would be few and far between. A good example of prototypes are some of the bad guys from Keith Baker's Dreaming Dark series of books.
#3 skritz_the_lizardmen Apr 14, 2010 20:07:25	You need to look at Warforged as the military hardware that they were created to be. To the standard civillian they would for the most part look the same like jets and tanks, but if you work around them all the time you start to spot the small differences. As for the artwork in the books; I would call that creative liscence. I'm not saying that there weren't prototypes and special orders made, but that these would be few and far between. A good example of prototypes are some of the bad guys from Keith Baker's Dreaming Dark series of books. Obviously there are different types of Warforged. Adamantine-covered Warforged where obviously built to be heavy infantry or shock troop, if not outright meatshields (or is it metalshields?).
#4 dieffenbachj Apr 15, 2010 11:14:46	Each warforged, IIRC, is born looking identical except for the symbol on their forehead. However, from then on they begin being modified: they might have markings or colors installed to signify nationality, owner, rank, expertise, etc. They might be magically modified to use adamantine or mithral or have their plates removed entirely. And lastly, warforged have the ability to subtly modify their own body with their personality, skill, and style. For instance, the spikes on the warforged juggernaut's body aren't welded or fresh, spiked plates: over time, the spikes just appeared. However, 4E averts this entirely by allowing for a much more extensive system of body modification and component parts, meaning the implication ends up being more: Warforged start the same off the factory press; however, they can modify their body organically as before, but they can also completely swap out their metal plates, arms, install other components, and so on, leading to great physical variety.
#5 Alex_ Apr 15, 2010 14:49:19	Warforged can and do "grow" naturally over time. One of the big things about the Warforged Juggernaut was that the process didn't involve any outside interference. You grew spikes. You grew additional metal plates. Warforged are living. They may have wood, stone, and metal in place of hair, flesh, and bone, but that stuff can warp, stretch, grow, and change over time as if it were a living thing. House Cannith actually succeeded in creating life. Mirroring in many ways the goals of real world alchemists in their desire to create life (particularly humans) in a lab. EDIT: And I just realize that I'm just parroting what Deiff just said.
#6 Hellcow Apr 15, 2010 22:04:02	You need to look at Warforged as the military hardware that they were created to be. Obviously there are different types of Warforged. Adamantine-covered Warforged where obviously built to be heavy infantry or shock troop, if not outright meatshields (or is it metalshields?). You're both correct. In my opinion, a warforged with Adamantine Plating and a warforged with Mithral Plating aren't simply identical warforged with different skin; they are different models of warforged developed for different purposes. The same thing applies to class; for a warforged, this can also be reflected by model. A warforged rogue or sorcerer didn't just start from base zero and learn those skills the way a human would; they were built with function in mind. Metagame, a warforged rogue has an 18 Dexterity because you chose to put it there. For a human, this would reflect athletic training; for a warforged, it likely reflects initial design. Warforged have been around for thirty years, with constant efforts to improve them. They've been developed for a wider range of purposes over this time, as shown by the age-by-class chart in the 3.5 ECG. As such, you can assume that pictures of warforged with radically different appearances reflec tthe fact that the warforged in question were developed for different purposes. Pretty much anyone can tell the difference between an M1 tank and a jeep. The question is whether the civilian can recognize the difference between two M1s. Personally, I consider the warforged shown on page 21 of the 3.5 ECG and page 32 of the 4E EPG to be the most common model of warforged. Warforged can and do modify their appearance, and this helps people tell them apart. Look at the warforged on page 32, and you can see some minor differences. But it's easy enough for strangers to overlook them.
#7 Hellcow Apr 15, 2010 22:07:21	Warforged can and do "grow" naturally over time. One of the big things about the Warforged Juggernaut was that the process didn't involve any outside interference. You grew spikes. You grew additional metal plates. This is an excellent point, and I can't believe I overlooked it in my previous post. The Warforged Juggernaut is a perfect example of the fact that the warforged are living constructs. If you look at the minor differences in the warforged on page 32, some of those changes might be just this sort of thing - natural (well, magical) evolution over time. Nonetheless, look at those two warforged and imagine them trading gear and switching poses; strangers might not remember which one had the cross design on his codplate.
#8 skritz_the_lizardmen Apr 16, 2010 11:05:06	You need to look at Warforged as the military hardware that they were created to be. Obviously there are different types of Warforged. Adamantine-covered Warforged where obviously built to be heavy infantry or shock troop, if not outright meatshields (or is it metalshields?). You're both correct. In my opinion, a warforged with Adamantine Plating and a warforged with Mithral Plating aren't simply identical warforged with different skin; they are different models of warforged developed for different purposes. The same thing applies to class; for a warforged, this can also be reflected by model. A warforged rogue or sorcerer didn't just start from base zero and learn those skills the way a human would; they were built with function in mind. Metagame, a warforged rogue has an 18 Dexterity because you chose to put it there. For a human, this would reflect athletic training; for a warforged, it likely reflects initial design. So I was right. Nice! Thanks Keith.
#9 RedRider Apr 16, 2010 13:42:16	Unless it violates some other element of setting logic, my tendency with any aspect of an RPG would be to go with the more interesting answer. Therefore, I'd say that warforged can look radically different based on the purpose they were built for, the year they were made and the individual forge they came from. Suggestions that warforged can grow is also an interesting-ness increaser, so let's put that in. You can even say most warforged look the same as they did when they were created and still retain this element for special cases, an emerging trend or a unique property. (The mithril-steel skin of Tokamak the Infernal Warforged Warlock bears mystic runes which increase in number and change with complexity for every being killed under their curse.) As for the "most Warforged look the same to humans" thing, for your average villager what's going to stand out most about them is that they're six foot tall metal humanoids, with small details being lost unless they've grown familiar with their prescence.
#10 Sarlax Apr 16, 2010 17:36:13	There are also several creation forges scattered in different nations. Even two warforged with no functional differences might look quite different, especially given that they were bought by different nations. Warforged made in Sharn for Breland are going to likely look quite different than those made in and for Cyre. This could reflect the need to differentiate troops (different builds are akin to uniforms) or even simple style (compare WWII Nazi and Soviet uniform aesthetics for a example).
#11 Hellcow Apr 17, 2010 0:06:17	This could reflect the need to differentiate troops (different builds are akin to uniforms) or even simple style (compare WWII Nazi and Soviet uniform aesthetics for a example). Indeed. And bear in mind, this doesn't even require completely different models. Per 4E, warforged are designed for this sort of national customization, in the form of component armor. While I understand the rationale from a metagame concept, the idea of warforged wearing normal armor has never sat right with me. But I like the idea of component armor as reflecting the customizable outer plating of the warforged. In my campaign, warforged are forged with component armor, and think of it as a part of themselves. It's a part that can be replaced or modified, but they're very uncomfortable without it (unless, of course, they were designed without it... in which case it feels strange to wear it). In any case, this is where even warforged of the same model would be made with armor designed for the nation in question. As a side note on this, when making warforged component armor I consider the stats of the armor as opposed to the description. IE, a warforged with component Hide armor could literally be wearing hide - an entertaining idea for a warforged monk of the Mockery making his own skin from his victims - but you could also describe the "Hide" armor as light plate. What's important is that it's +3 AC light armor with a -1 check penalty that counts as Hide for purposes of feats. It does come back to what's interesting. Personally, I find it interesting to have the warforged be identifiable as weapons of war. I like the fact that a Rekkenmark officer can look at a warforged and say "You're one of the recon models assigned to the Third Legion of Atur, aren't you?" In terms of "People can't tell them apart", it's back to the idea that a civilian can tell the tank and the jeep apart, but he might not be able to tell two jeeps apart. Yes, if one is in Karrn colors and the other is in Cyran livery, a farmer won't mix the two of them up. But when a third one designed for the same function shows up also in Cyran livery, the personal differences could get lost. Nonetheless - warforged can modify themselves. They can evolve physically. They can be rare or unusual models. They can have interesting unit or rank insignia. They can have lasting injuries from the war - perhaps even a limb that was lost and replaced with another that's slightly off in style. Moreso than any other character, with warforged PCs I want to know what the character did during the war - what they were designed for, who they fought for, how they feel about it. Perhaps they didn't fight; I've seen a warforged bouncer and a warforged butler as PCs. But they were made for a reason - what was that, and how is it reflected?
#12 Centauri Apr 17, 2010 23:35:54	I haven't read everything about warforged, but I've sort of gathered the impression that even though they come out of "forges" and there are several different "models" they are a) not machines and b) not well-understood. House Cannith recovered the artifacts necessary for making them from Xen'drik, where the giants may have originated the race, and they can now implement it, but don't actually have mastery of the process. If I have that roughly right (and of course I can just make it right for my campaign, if I want) then it's easy to imagine that each warforged might come out looking slightly different from the last or the next, with different abilities. NPC warforged, by-and-large, might look, sound, and act a lot like each other, but warforged PCs, notable NPCs, and enemies are "special" somehow.
#13 elanthiscannith Apr 18, 2010 3:50:18	(assumption 3.5 rules) My character being a Cannith Artificer. I look at the Forged ones like this. There are Four Primary Model Types. The First type are ONLY warriors they were initially created by Merrix the First who made them based off of schema recovered from Xen`drik. The Titans fall in this Model of Forged ones. The Second type was refined by his son Aarron about 30-some years ago, the same year that Merrix the Second was born. Most of this model has been destroyed over the past decades. These guys though make up the bulk of the Lord of Blades Troops. While still all of this type are either Fighters or Juggernaughts. The Third type was created towards the end of the Last war once Merrix the Second took over the Forged ones Production. This type is the clear majority that most people know. They can be any class; they are the Fixer, Charger and Scout that most people have seen. The Fourth type was also created by Merrix the Second, though it was under compulsion from an Inspired Lord, who then wiped the memory from him. These are the Psi-forged and Human-forged that one can read about if you search the net carefully. There are only a few hundred of this type around. All have been created in Sharn since the signing of the Treaty of Thornhold. (none of this is common knowledge, as even Merrix who created them has no memory of the act.) This Model of forged ones are not however in league with the Inspired, they have gone there own way and follow neither Inspired or Kalistar traditions.. a neutral/unknown faction. The creation process is very straightforwards. 1-Lay out the Wooden Bones. 2-Braid up strands of silk and hemp to make muscles. 3-Choose the Type and Profession of the Forged one. (base stats/ initial class) 4-Forge the Plating for their Bodies. (stone/wood/metal Armor) 5-Cast the six spells that call a spirit to inhabit the bodies. 6-Train them to harm none that bear the Marks of Making or a Signet of House Cannith 7-Train them to their initial Professions and Combat skills. 8-Keep them or sell them as per instructions. _____________________ Of my companions we have two of the Forged ones. Both are type three, but they follow a very different training pattern. Both started as Fighters, one has become a Juggernaut, the other a Holy Cleric. They both followed steps 1-8 exactly the same way. IT was a different responce to being captured by the Bladebearers that determined their advanced professions (multiclasses). One of them has taken himself to become focused upon rule 6 and become my personial bodyguard/champion. He has also taken to wood shaping and carpentry because i know not those skills. The other has focused upon rule 8 and will do anything to defend Galifar then Breland. He has taken up engineering, because i know that skill. No two warforged can be created the same way, even if the exact same procedures are followed. The forged ones are as much a product of their environment as their initial nature. Even within a small group there are variances in the forged ones. It almost seems as though they are truly alive and not just a construction of our old forges. ____________________________________ As to your questions I will try to answer them (ignoring everything else in this thread for the now). What about their mental ability score? That is determined by step 3 above. All six of their ability scores are fluid until that point where they are fixed, Before the forged one are inhabited by a spirit. Are there Warforged built to be smart, while other are built to be dumb? Short answer is Yes. Long answer is yes they are all built to specifications determined in step 3 (using a point buy attribute character generation system) per the instructions of the client that wishes the forged ones. For example an Artificer that Cannith will keep for themselves would be ALOT more Intelligent then a Fighter that was sent to Cyre. The fighter only needed to be smart enough to understand battle orders AND obey them without question. The artificer needed to be smart enough to create new Forged ones. Or is it something randomly determinated at birth? It IS fixed Firmly in Step 3 of the creation process. Atleast for those of us that use a point by character generation system. If however you use a random attribute generation system for characters in your campaign then yes both mental and physical attributes are determined randomly.