Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Cyber-Dave Oct 21, 2008 14:48:52	Is there anywhere other than the article in the old Dragon magazine? Also, does anyone have any links to good pictures of the Umbragen? Are they still very tribal? Would something akin to the Witch Doctor of Dibalo 3 be an appropriate image of an Umbragen shadow warlock? Thanks again. EDIT: I changed the title to reflect the changing nature of this thread.
#2 ieattrollsforbreakfast Oct 21, 2008 15:39:30	Is there anywhere other than the article in the old Dragon magazine? Also, does anyone have any links to good pictures of the Umbragen? Are they still very tribal? Would something akin to the Witch Doctor of Dibalo 3 be an appropriate image of an Umbragen shadow warlock? Thanks again. I think the only source other than the Dragon Magazine is the game Dragonshard. Might be worth looking through the concept art of that game to see if there's anything good. As far as I know, Umbragen are a bit more civilised than the Vulkoor worshipping drow. I think the full page spread in the Dragon Magazine is supposed to be Qaltiar rather than Umbragen.
#3 Cyber-Dave Oct 21, 2008 15:49:31	Does anyone know where I might be able to find that article online? I had this idea for a "witch doctor" esque drow shadow warlock... I figured the Umbragen were probably the best bet for this idea, but I don't own the dragon article, and I don't really know much about these drow except that they live in an underground city and tend to feature shadow warlocks...
#4 mystrich Oct 21, 2008 17:50:38	Does anyone know where I might be able to find that article online? I had this idea for a "witch doctor" esque drow shadow warlock... I figured the Umbragen were probably the best bet for this idea, but I don't own the dragon article, and I don't really know much about these drow except that they live in an underground city and tend to feature shadow warlocks... Not for free, but it's issue 330 if you want to buy it. To sum it up though: They escaped the Giants by fleeing to Khyber. There they found powerful magic, which they call Umbra. They believe it's an all powerful devouring force, and it will slowly consume the soul of those who it touches, but they believe the soul is a price to pay in order to increase one's power. I think Warlock would work well to represent this in either edition.
#5 rekko Oct 21, 2008 18:18:36	These artworks are great. As for Umbragen, you might want to inspire yourself with Shadar-Kai fluff. Or other creatures of the Shadowfell. In my game, I never encountered Umbragen, but here are some ideas I'm toying with. I see some of the most powerful Umbragen becoming vaporous, almost incorporal, as a shadow. It could explained because of a rift between the Shadowfell and Eberron(Khyber), or by the process of Shadow Grafting, or some Shadow Magic (upcoming power source) or a Warlock Pact for greater power in a world were survival is every day's matter. Rekko
#6 Amaril Oct 21, 2008 19:22:10	Does anyone know where I might be able to find that article online? You can buy a PDF of that issue from Paizo.com. They magazines download in a zip format with each article in a separate PDF.
#7 Cyber-Dave Oct 21, 2008 22:08:51	So, it seems the Ubragen were nothing like I imagined. Of course, just because they are advanced, doesn't mean I have to imagine them as being European! And I have found at least one picture on the internet which features them with heavy tattoos... Hellcow, if you see this, I would love to hear your unofficial thoughts on the appearance and cultural style of the Ubragen... Everyone else, same question! How do you imagine them? Also, as the Umbragini sword-mage paragon path from the FRPG seems to be very suited to Umbragen culture as well, I got to thinking about what their cultural weapons might be. Has anything been listed before? I sort of liked the idea of Umbragen khopesh wielding sword-mages dressed in purple, blue, and black silk robes with white tattoos. Don't know why... I just sort of think the idea looks neat. I'm sort of picturing a culture of underground living sacrifice and heavy shadow magic constantly fighting to keep the thread of Khyber at bay, often at the cost of loosing their own souls.
#8 Montonius1 Oct 21, 2008 22:54:28	For a look at all of the known lore (but none of the crunch) about the Umbragen, check out the Unique Races of Eberron section of the Grand History of Eberron. http://www.scribd.com/doc/6120625/Th...ory-of-Eberron http://rapidshare.com/files/15435697...erron.pdf.html http://rapidshare.com/files/15435697...erron.doc.html
#9 Cyber-Dave Oct 21, 2008 23:37:22	Very cool, but it does not really describe their appearance at all... I'm trying to get a feel for what their culture "looks like" in comparison to the tribal dark elves. Obviously the presence of steel is one major difference.
#10 Gilo Oct 22, 2008 0:00:27	The Dragonshard game site also had this nice wallpaper: Show
#11 Cyber-Dave Oct 22, 2008 1:31:03	Yea... that dark elf is definitely tattooed. I had actually already seen that wallpaper. Its that glaive which made me think that the khopesh seems to be the right flavor of sword for the race. :P It just seems like a glaive/khopesh/kukri style place. Sort of an Egypt, Aztec, and Indian (as in Indian, not Native American) mish mash in terms of aesthetics.
#12 rekko Oct 22, 2008 7:49:33	This wallpaper rises a few question. In the real world, many species that live underground and never see the daylight have adapted themselves to the dark underground environment. For example, some creatures have pure white skin, which doesn't make any sense if they'd want to hide in the dark, but with no light at all, no matter what their skin color is, they are always totally concealed. Some tiny insects went a step further, their skin is transparent and you can see though them. Some creatures are blind which enhance their other senses, and develop senses humans and other surface dweller doesn't have, like heat-vision, supersonic hearing(bats), tremorsense, feeling the air move around them, scent, etc. Some creature are more than blind, they have no eyes at all. All this to say that there are many ways a species can adapt itself to the dark underground. I that wallpaper, that drow has white skin. Is it an adaptation they've developed? Or is it paintings on his body because he's a priest? His eyes glow. Is it because he casts a spell, or is it because he has cat eyeballs that reflect the rare light to illuminate his vision? What else could be a sign of adaptation to Khyber? Most importantly, what does Khyber look like? Maybe there's supernatural illumination, underground forests of huge mushrooms, glowing creatures, gigantic chambers that allow flight, etc. Rekko
#13 Amaril Oct 22, 2008 8:12:19	Umbragen have black skin like drow. The eyes are glowing from arcane power, possibly the magic that's infused within them. Khyber's appearance is whatever you need it to look like. There's never been a book on Khyber, let alone any sort of depiction, because the answer really is, "It depends."
#14 rekko Oct 22, 2008 8:49:11	Yes, but in this case, it depends on Cyber-Dave, since it's his game.
#15 Amaril Oct 22, 2008 8:51:30	Yes, but in this case, it depends on Cyber-Dave, since it's his game. That was my point. How Khyber looks is up to the DM. It's another sandbox similar to Xen'drik or the cause of the Mourning.
#16 rekko Oct 22, 2008 9:06:15	I agree. What I was trying to say is that it's also to Cyber-Dave to chose how his Umbragen look like and what they do. Even if there's a canon description, there's nothing preventing any DM to change anything to fit his game. For example, it doesn't prevent an Umbragen to be a drow, even if it has white skin. It will only add a cool trait to that DM's game. I'm not saying it's the way to do it, but one of the ways.
#17 apparit Oct 24, 2008 8:42:09	So these are Elves/Drow (which?) who live underground and worship Khyber and thus draw power from it. This power slowly eats away at their soul - but for what reason? Surely they aren't the first beings that draw their power from Khyber (it's my personal belief that arcane magic does in a way draw on the power of Khyber as it is dark magic - but that may just be from playing a low-magic setting for too long) so why does it eat away at their soul? Also, who exactly are these guys? Are they just one more Cult of the Dragon Below? Do they have an objective, or are they just in it for the worshiping of Khyber, oblivious to the surface world?
#18 rekko Oct 24, 2008 9:46:33	SoX p.52 and Dragon magazine number 330 describes the Umbragen. I never read the magazine, but I own SoX. Brief Umbragen description Quickly, the Umbragen drow fled the surface during the Dragon/Giant war that destroyed Xen'drik. They hide beneath the Ring of Storms, ancient home of the Qabalrin elves (strong necromancers), where they discovered their secrets and bond themselves to a strange shadow energy source. Lately, they are at siege with a Daelkyr and its army.
#19 Hellcow Oct 24, 2008 20:56:15	Really, the best place to find my thoughts on the matter is in that Dragon article. The Umbragen do not, however, worship Khyber; on the contrary, the reason they forged their bond with the Umbra is to gain power they need to battle the aberrant hordes they are dealing with in Khyber. It's unfortunate in that my original design for Dragonshard included an Umbragen campaign that went into much more detail about their culture, and which I thought was the most interesting of the three campaigns, but so it goes. The Umbragen are considerably more civilized than the Vulkoori drow, and I wouldn't see them as tribal. However, I wouldn't see them as being especially European in terms of dress or culture. They still share the same ultimate roots as the Vulkoori and Sulatar. I think tattooing makes sense. The double blade is something that's generally been established as common to both Tairnadal and old drow (As seen both by that wallpaper and the Sulatar image in SoX). And yes, the basic idea is that the closer an Umbragen becomes to the Umbra, the less "human" he becomes. This could lead to becoming insubstantial or wraith-like, or to manifestations like the flying warlock in the image above. In 4E, you could certainly choose to make the Umbragen using Shadar-kai instead of drow, saying that their pact with the Umbra (which is, essentially, the primal force of the Shadowfell) has fundamentally transformed them.
#20 Cyber-Dave Oct 25, 2008 3:04:39	That Shadar Kai idea is kind of neat. I have a couple issues with it: 1) Shadar Kai get a +2 bonus to Int, and I prefer the Drow +2 bonus to Cha. The "pact" with ubra screams warlock, dark pact warlock, and that is Cha based. 2) I would prefer, personally, to keep something a little closer to the drow abilities. I like your concept of "less subraces" or rather "different race rules for different cultures" concept of 3e. However, the Shadar kai shadow jaunt power seems to fit these characters very well. How would you feel about a racial feat that allowed a character to use their "lolth touched" power to use shadow jaunt instead of the darkness or fire power drow usually use? Seems like the best of both worlds: unified drow fluff, and shadar kai flavor racial powers gained through a feat representing a further shift into the umbra, no?