Planning a flashback episode and I'm running into some cognitive dissonance on the White Arch Bridge.
First, Scion's Sound between Thaliost and Rekkenmark is wide. About 15 miles wide according to the map (in 4e - it's even wider on the 3e map). At 15 miles, you won't be able to see the other side unless those cliffs are pretty high and you are at the top.
Second, even if we call the map bogus and make it just a mile wide, well that's mighty wide for any sort of pre-modern bridge - between the size of the George Washington Bridge in NYC and the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. We'll need to use magic to explain it of course.
So what's your impression? - Is Scion's sound so wide there that you can't see (or can barely see) the other side? Was the bridge at the top of the cliffs or at the bottom? If at the top, did the bridge resemble a suspension bridge like the GW or Golden Gate, or did the structure fill the sound like some of those old (albeit much, much shorter) Roman arch bridges? Or maybe like a huge dam? How high are those cliffs anyway?
I'd have made it resemble a massive fantasy version of the Ponte Vecchio in Florence, with mercantile/residential buildings along the sides for at least part of its span. The bridge becomes almost a town in its own right...
... which would make its destruction during the Last War all the more tragic.
There are some actual images floating around out there:
White Arch Bridge Ruins (not in any sourcebook, but planned for the ECS in 3.5)
White Arch Bridge Side Shot (Five Nations)
Note that neither image really captures the scale of the bridge - I don't feel the artists reflected on how large that distance actually is. They make it look like a "big bridge," sure, but given the size of Scion's Sound, the White Arch Bridge should have been one of the most incredible engineering marvels of Eberron *or* Earth. The Golden Gate Bridge isn't even two miles (and it spans less than a mile of water) and it can be pretty breathtaking.
I like to think that the White Arch Bridge was built with the help of a manifest zone, much like Sharn. Syrania is an obvious choice, but I like Daanvi. A manifest zone to Daanvi could create a region of supreme stability, perfect for a massive bridge. Whatever the manifest zone, I think it's necessary to have some supernatural reason for building it there. The cost to building a bridge like that with the mundane methods available, even augmented by Eberron's standard magic, would be prohibitive. It'd make much more sense to have an elaborate ferry system or highway that curves to the south.
It's possible that the bridge predates Galifar, though. Maybe the basic structure was produced by the Dhakaani Empire over centuries of work. Maybe it was a relic from the Age of Demons. Who knows?
I really like the idea of a Davaani manifest zone somehow perfecting the architecture being constructed in it. Like the influence is subtle, but suddenly "measure twice, cut once" work ethic produces 100% accurate results, and girders and beams fit together seemlessly with a 0.00000~% error margin.
I support the idea of it being constructed by the Dhakanni Empire to unify their lands, unless it's specifically stated somewhere that The Kingdom of Galifar had it comissioned.
I imagine that the White Arch bridge might actually be disturbing to behold for some people. Like, it's TOO perfect.
Yes, I remember that picture from Five Nations, but that bridge looks to be about a quarter mile long and only about 50 feet high.
Here's what I was thinking of as a structure that might fill the whole of the channel, though higher, wider, longer. I really like the idea of the Daanvi manifest zone. Daanvi doesn't get enough to do, order being generally boring and all. I thought of the Syrania zone as well, but y'know, it's been done.
Similar to the Golden Gate, that part of Scion's Sound is going to be deep and fast, with a huge volume of water passing through at each tide. So the manifest zone would keep the chaotic forces of the water (though you could argue that laminar flow is quite orderly) from destroying the structure.
Or, like an immovable rod, the manifest zone keeps the bridge from changing energy state from potential to kinetic.
This, but really tall (how high are those cliffs anyway? The deck of the Golden Gate is about 200' high) and 15 miles long?
The other thing that got me thinking of this was repeated entries in "Forge of War" implying that naval control of that section of the Sound gave you control over the bridge, and I was trying to imagine how that would be, given the size and apparent height of the structure.
I also really like the idea that it was build by the Dhakkani, using methods that are lost today. It hasn't been rebuilt because it cannot be rebuilt. Even its destruction required significant magics, and in historical terms is one of the most tragic losses of the Last War.
Suddenly this is reminding me of that ridiculous bridge from Final Fantasy VIII, Fisherman's Horizon. It literally spanned an ocean.
I like the idea of the bridge being "disturbingly perfect." Since there's no indication that the bridge hosted a significant settlement, maybe that's the reason. People who stay long start experiencing a malaise, neorotic disorders, etc. There might have been shops and service centers, but run by people who lived on the land.
I don't see a very large community having existed on the bridge - maybe a few hundred people at any time who weren't travelers. Mostly service people who manned tolls (working for Orien and Galifar) and maybe some fisherman who cast off into the Sound.
The height of the bridge is difficult to guage. I'd have it vary - some areas are shallow, only a few dozen feet, while others might drop hundreds of fathoms or further. The bridge might have variable heights - some places are low enough to peer into the water, while other climb high enough so that massive ships can pass through.
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Tangent: Running with the Dhakaani, maybe the bridge was actually the seat of the empire. The bridge itself could have been built to connect West and East, but the throne occupied the bridge itself because the goblins believed that Daanvi would lead to an endlessly stable and perfect kingdom.
Another function of the bridge might have been to control access to the continent itself. I just had an off the wall idea that the goblins may have traded with some now-vanished civilization - maybe an ancient dwarven civilization of the Frostfell. The ships would sail back from the North through the Sound, paying tolls at the bridge, and then passing to the end where Thronehold now lies, to distribute goods from the center of the continent.
I imagine the White Arch Bridge to be literally a giant white arch. Like so ...
One possible explanation is that the Dhakkani had no interest or aptitude to form navies (explaining why there are no Dhakkani remnants on any other continents despite millennia of rule). Maybe it is a goblin trait that they just hate water. So faced with the massive obstacle of Scion's Sound, it was not always feasible to march around it to the south all the time - a northern bridge had to be built.
There might actually be Dhakaani ruins on other continents, but how would we know? Xen'drik suffers from whatever it is that distorts spacetime and Sarlona is mastered by the Inspired. Dhakaan might have established colonies on other continents, but they may have been wiped out by the intervening millenia. Who knows?
I like the idea that somehow the Dhakaani didn't have a choice but to build great monuments like the White Arch Bridge. I don't recall what it's called, but there's also a ridiculously huge monument of carved goblins in Breland, something like Rushmore times twenty. Such thing might have been government programs to help deal with surplus labor. It might be boring in a fantasy setting, but imagine a goblinoid empire, full of rapidly reproducing workers. Eventually, you have too many workers, and labor is extremely cheap. If labor is cheap, workers get angry because they are earning too little money. If workers are angry, you get a revolution. So what does the empire do? It organizes these massive and unnecessary public works projects (monuments, bridges, etc.) to keep the price of labor high so that workers are never poor enough to revolt.
To Eberronize the idea, it's possible that such enginnering feats were inspired by other forces. Maybe there's a rakshasa rajah who emobides environmental mastery and destruction, The Architect, who inspires mortals to waste time, wealth, and lives in building wasteful structures. Maybe the daelkyr simply inspired a madness for construction. Maybe the goblins stole from the giants the secrets of this kind of construction and intended to make their empire as grand through an ignorant understanding of the giants' history.
As for monument building, there are more things that get people to build large monuments then the need to keep workers busy. Humans build some huge things in RL wether out of defense (the Chinese Wall), to appease the people (the Colloseum), to show off the power of a ruler, or religion (Stone Henge and various pyramids). The Six Kings might be big, but with the aide of magic their creation is not nearly as impressive as say the building of the pyramids.
Actually Dhakanni artificers were able to craft artifact-level items modern artificers are unable to reproduce.
Regardless of that, however, we're not saying that Galiarian humans COULDN'T build that bridge, just that they didn't need to because it was already there. Just because I can do something doesn't implicitly mean you can't.
I'd agree that, as a Galifarian construction, its destruction and rebuilding would be more symbolic of the conflict. However, the destruction of a modern creation is never as "tragic" as a classical analog. History has enormous value.
What would be more tragic, the destruction of the Roman Colisseum or Yankee Stadium? The Pyramids or the Luxor hotel? Even though modern methods could recreate either classical structure, we'd never do it because its value is in its history.
Now the symbology of lost Galifar (and Galifar regained) is one point you could make with the bridge, and it has value as a setting concept. But there is also value in illustrating the cost of war to antiquity. Witness Napoleon's troops using the Sphinx for artillery practice (false, by the way), the Buddhas of Bamyan, the firebombing of Dresden.
However, my original point is still only marginally discussed. Do most people think of the bridge as an impressive, but relatively small structure, no bigger than the Brooklyn Bridge? Is it a huge bridge by modern standards, the size of the Golden Gate? Or, if the map is to be relied on, is it a perspective-shockingly huge structure 15 miles long, spanning a deep channel? If the latter, how do you construct and maintain such a thing, even with magic?
In my games im going for a white marble like bridge that spans 15 miles, how I don't know yet no one has needed to pass it yet.
Reason: Because it is way way much more impressive with a 15 mile bridge than a 2 mile one. And because the encounters one can have on it is just amazingly cool.
I would make it a huge 15 mile long structure. As for it's construction, I think that if a manifest zone to Syrannia can make levitation magic so strong that one bridge can hold up an entire tower or two, then a manifest zone to Davaani can make architecture much more resilient.
If the bridge was created by Galifar, it was most likely a joint operation between House Orien (who probably have built many mundan bridges across Khorvaire to keep their trade roads managable), House Cannith (for all-around know-how on creating huge magical structures and analyzing the manifest zone's potential), and House Lyrandar (to keep the seas calm and steady as they worked)
If it was the Dhakanni, it was most likely masterminded by their imperial artificers, brought together from many clans to work toward a joint purpose.
Actually Dhakanni artificers were able to craft artifact-level items modern artificers are unable to reproduce.
A few master mind artifers were definitely skilled and powerful, but if you consider the Dragon Below series canon/indication then the average artificer could not replicate the work of those few masters and even if they could it was quickly forgotten during the long collapse of said empire. Personally I think that in some regards Galifar is ahead of Dhakaan (helped by the existence of dragon marks), while at others it is the other way around.
Regardless of that, however, we're not saying that Galiarian humans COULDN'T build that bridge, just that they didn't need to because it was already there. Just because I can do something doesn't implicitly mean you can't.
I know, but my intent was to point out that if you do make the bridge a Dhakaani relic it has concequences.
first, I wanna say that I didn't think of the ideas of the White Arch Bridge being built by the Dhakkani, nor of the possible influnce of Manifest Zones. the Daanvi effects realy appeal to me. I feel very ashamed of myself for glossing over all this, especially with my tendency to highlight "monster" sophistication.
now, let's think about what it could mean if the bridge wa sin fact crafted by the Dhakkani, but was seized by Karrn the Conquerer at the beginning of his campaign? it would be pre-Galifar, Goblin-built, but owned by Humans before Galifar, and thus a Human-control pre-Galifar monument. maybe it could even have been damaged and repaired (or rebuilt) during or before the time of Galifar, so that it was originally a Dhakkani structure but that truth is lost to official History?
just a thought, realy.
also, to point out, in the 4th edition book (which I hate to admit, is organized alot better than the 3.5 edition one) for the Eberron Campaign Setting, the section for ekkenmark in Karrnath states that the people living there were honestly amazed that the bridge lasted as long as it did. I think this realy enforces the idea that it was built with the help of a Manifest Zone or magic, and also that the Karrnathi and Galifarians were unaware of that fact. more evidence of it being a Dhakkani project.
now, the Roman-styled bridges seem to be the best style to look to, with their multple Arches supporting the weight of the Bridge itself. if you could imagine it spanning 15 miles, what width do you think it would want to be? perhaps 60 ft?
anywho, I'm gonna get back to looking for a Map of Rekkenmark, and scratch part of the city map I already have. I made the bridge only 20 ft wide, and after looking at these possible images for refference I feel stupid to have done that. XP meh.