What EXACTLY is copyrighted to Warforged?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Archus_Forix

Mar 26, 2008 16:52:11
I mean, is it the name 'warforged', how they are made (metal and wood, I believe, with some magic thrown in), their history, why they were made, mechanics such as no gender, not needing rest etc.

I am not trying to be picky or seeing what I can get away with, I am developing my own world, and I want a Warforged-esque race in there, but I don't want to tread on anyone's (particuarly Keith Baker's) toes, because I may want to publish stories about it, and therefore copyright infringement would ensue.

Can anyone help me out here?
#2

Edymnion

Mar 26, 2008 17:40:28
I mean, is it the name 'warforged', how they are made (metal and wood, I believe, with some magic thrown in), their history, why they were made, mechanics such as no gender, not needing rest etc.

I am not trying to be picky or seeing what I can get away with, I am developing my own world, and I want a Warforged-esque race in there, but I don't want to tread on anyone's (particuarly Keith Baker's) toes, because I may want to publish stories about it, and therefore copyright infringement would ensue.

Can anyone help me out here?

Three words: Hire. A. Lawyer.
I cannot stress this enough. It doesn't matter what any of us say. It doesn't matter if Keith himself comes in here and lays out everything he knows on the subject. If you don't have a lawyer review the copyright and tell you, legally, where the boundries are, you are going to be screwed.

People ask this sort of thing all the time, and I'm dead serious. If you think there is even the remote possibility that what you are going to write will get published, and you are even remotely concerned over this sort of thing (aka, you got inspiration from somewhere), then you need to cover your butt legally.

Hire a lawyer. Have your lawyer get in contact with WotC's lawyers. Let them hammer out the details. Anything less than that means you will get your ass sued off.
#3

Yruc

Mar 26, 2008 22:37:57
Post above says it all, no subsitute for a good lawyer, but think of this.

You can not copyright an idea or name.

Wizards of the coast has elves, halflings, orcs, etc etc.. as do a lot of other "publishers." Lord of the Rings has all those as well, many other fantasy books have them too. None of them are guilty of copyright infringment so if you want to create a race of living constructs and call them fabricatedclashers you wouldn't have a problem.


From the http://www.copyright.gov/ website

What Is Not Protected by Copyright?
Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others:

Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of expression (for example, choreographic works that have not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches or performances that have not been written or recorded)

Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents

Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration

Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources)
#4

mrockwell

Mar 26, 2008 23:24:04
I want a Warforged-esque race in there, but I don't want to tread on anyone's (particuarly Keith Baker's) toes

Remember that Keith doesn't own the copyright to anything Eberron - it belongs to WotC.

As Yruc said, warforged are basically golems with souls, so are no more "copyrightable" than your average elf.
#5

kreistor2

Mar 27, 2008 6:59:19
The rules used for including a warforged in a game are copyrighted, and the specific text used to include them, but that's about it. The word "creation forge" would be copyrighted.

However, the method in which warforged are created (ie. in a machine) is not. It has been used many times. If you tried to make them out of metal, stone, and wood like in Eberron, they might have a "look and feel" argument they might use against you, but a pure metal android is a classic of literature, so if you stick to that, you'd also be good. If it was done before by someone else, then it can't be copyrighted or WotC would get sued.

So long as it was clear that your androids are somehow different from warforged, you're safe. Avoid the name, avoid the rules and you're probably good.

But, as said earlier, consult a lawyer. You can even get lucky and get one for free. (Happened to me once. 10 min conversation and he sent me on my way better informed.)
#6

Archus_Forix

Mar 27, 2008 21:14:31
well it isn't the mechanics or the actual warforged that I want. That is Eberron's beef, not mine. I want the essence of a warforged. Basically, in my world, they are called R'unas (Created Ones), built for war in the third age. They started out as mindless machines, war golems, essentially, and they did their job well. But when the creator, Maltor, who controlled them all (I don't know HOW yet, but it seems pretty uber to me), started to turn evil, some of the R'unas started to ask questions, they started to become sentient. Some of them rebelled, and stayed behind, the others, those that are still mindless, went with Maltor.

I want them to be made out of metal, I want them to be infused with magic (which may lead onto a sort of R'unas 'soul'), I want them to be originally built for war. I don't care about things like dragonmarks, or the forges in how they were made, or their political and social standing in Eberron. That bit I think is copyrighted, and I don't want that anyway.

Basically, I put them in there because it will be cool for battles with them in, and on my novel there is one of them, called Forge, who acts as a sort of 'Data' figure (from Star Trek), who wants to be more human and tries to learn that there is more than just fighting. His role in the party is the fighter (obv), and has gained some leadership skills from a previous war (I haven't made that one up yet, but I should imagine it is pretty short, unlike the Great War in Eberron).

My inspirations:

I, Robot (for morality)
Frankenstein (on something being created, wrong type of 'life')
Lt. Cmdr. Data (for motive)
D&D (for general outline and foundation of race)
War in Heaven (rebellion of the sentient R'unas)
Barak [Belgariad] (Confidence in fighting skills, general humour)

In essence, Ladies and Gentlemen:
No mechanics
No Eberron-specific jargon (such as history, creation myth etc.)

Yes general idea (magic-infused android built for war)
Yes general 'feel' (something new to the world, not natural, technological)

Indeed, because I do not wish to take anything linked intrinsically with Eberron, (I really don't care for Cyre, Lord of Blades, relations with other races, them being called 'constructs', exact materials (Obsidian, darkwood etc.)) I do believe I am fine.
#7

demonjim

Apr 07, 2008 16:11:59
well the small print in the campaign book states
"This WIZARDS OF THE COAST® game product contains no Open Game Content. No portion of this work maybe reproduced in any form without written permission. To learn more about the Open Gaming License and the d20 System License, please visit www.wizards.com/d20. This product uses updated material from the v.3.5 revision."

so nothing from eberron period. since the name and history is different, you might be ok but it is iffy territory. You do need to check the copyright.
#8

dragoondarkfire

Apr 07, 2008 16:39:07
The idea of a metal man really isn't anything new or copyrighted.

Iron Giant, Tin Man, ROBOTS. They're all basically Warforged from a conceptual standpoint. If you want to introduce Warforged then simply make a race of metal men and call them... Mechanoids or something.

Really as long as you don't just come out and say "THESE ARE WARFORGED" people either won't really care or won't be able to do much about it.
#9

ChaoticGood

Apr 19, 2008 3:19:16
Really as long as you don't just come out and say "THESE ARE WARFORGED" people either won't really care or won't be able to do much about it.

Hahaha, oh how little you know of the depths and intricacies of copyright law, my friend. Let me give you an example, a story that a Dragonlance friend of mine loves to tell.*

The story goes that when TSR arranged the licensing for the Dragonlance novels, they copyrighted the name "Dragonlance" as an adjective, i.e.: The Dragonlance Chronicles, etc. When the actual artifact - THE Dragonlance - appeared in one of the novels, the lawyers threw a fit about it, insisting that it be called "The Dragonlance Lance." Why? Because use of the copyrighted word as a noun, rather than an adjective, opened the copyright up to multiple interpretations, thus allowing for the possibility for TSR to lose the ability to protect the original, adjectival form. (If a potential offender used the word in such a way that could be assumed to be a noun, the precedent that the novel set in using it that way, uncopyrighted, could potentially leave that offender free and clear.) It was only after much arguing and complaining on the part of Hicks and Weisman that the lawyers eventually agreed to allow the book to be published as written - albeit with the stipulation that if the company lost the copyright because of it, they - the lawyers - must be held blameless.

* To be honest, I can't vouch for the truth of this story, but he's told it a dozen times and he doesn't like to be wrong... Anybody who can prove or disprove this tale is welcome to chime in here.

Does your brain hurt yet? If not, hang on, because that was the equivalent of a CR 2 encounter with the Copyright Law Elemental. Just wait until I level it up a bit in the Copyright Lawyer PrC, throw on a few more Hit Dice, and add the "Corporate Retainer" template... Oh, can't forget Leadership and a hired band of Lesser Copyright Law Elementals and Legal Grues... bwahaha!
#10

kreistor2

Apr 19, 2008 8:25:28
ChaticGood, what you're talking about is a Trademark, not a copyright. You can't copyright a single word -- words are free for everyone to use. Trademarking assigns the use of a word to a particular product, preventing other similar products from associating that word with their product. Trademarking is a completely different process with different limits.

Copyrights are inherent when you make the work public: though you can send a copy to the copyright office for legal reasons if you wish, all product is protected by copyright regardless. If other people use your work without permission, you can pick and choose who you fight over it.

Trademarks must be applied for, and have some odd rules. (They can't be descriptive, for instance. You can't trademark the term "Delicious" with reference to Coke, for instance. "Dragonlance" as an adjective is not descriptive of a wagon.) You can't, however, choose not to fight someone that violates your trademark: you must protect it in every instance, without exception (something a lot of people don't understand).

Anyway, the point is things are very complex when it comes to Copyright, Trademark, and Patent laws.
#11

ChaoticGood

Apr 21, 2008 1:50:10
Ah, my mistake. But as you said, the point stands: NEVER assume that "nobody's going to care" when it comes to using or even mimicing copyrighted or trademarked intellectual property.

Anyway, I'm off to copyright and trademark the "Copyright Law Elemental" and "Legal Grue" stats that I just wrote up... hehehe.
#12

Edymnion

Apr 22, 2008 12:18:12
So, basically, again. Hire a lawyer.
#13

Nightshade

May 02, 2008 17:12:15
So, basically, again. Hire a lawyer.

Yup.

I haven't checked the ECS, where it should state what is trademarked, but I have a very strong feeling that "Warforged" is trademarked.