| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1hnauDec 01, 2008 23:46:26 | The Daughters of Sora Kell were asserting Droaam's sovereignty, taking a significant amount of territory from Breland. Kaius III, who is pushing for peace, has taken the throne of Karrnath. Aundair is stretched thin between the armies of the Eldeen Reaches and Thrane. Cyre is still holding foreign territory, though Breland's forces haven't been exhausted just yet, and the secession of Darguun and Valenar have captured a huge portion of the Cyran kingdom. It seems like there were more forces at play pushing for the end of the Last War than just the Day of Mourning and the elimination of Cyre. In my campaign, the Quori were behind the beginning of the Last War. It was to be a version of the Sundering in Sarlona, to weaken the nations of Khorvaire in order for them to be taken over by some Quori-led front group. The Mourning took them for surprise. Its easy to see that the Dreaming Dark would benefit for the Last War continuing, and as of 998 YK its likely they want to re-start the conflict as soon as possible. The Dreaming Dark are manipulating my characters, Cyran nationalists, to help find components for an eldritch machine that will eventually send them back in time so that they can discover the cause of the Mourning and then avert it. I'm not quite sure what caused the Mourning, but I'm of the view that forces that are opposed to the Quori are at least somewhat behind it, among others. So the group is going to be sent back in time, there is going to be an epic climax where the cause of the Mourning is eliminated, I haven't planned that far, but basically there is going to be a plot twist in which the Last War continues as of 998 YK and the PCs, when they return to the present (a new timeline) didn't foresee the consequences. But would the Last War continue, if the Mournland was never created? When would the Last War end, without the influence of the Mourning? I really want to pick up Five Nations and Forge of War to get more information, but ever since 4E came out my local bookstore doesn't carry any Eberron material... =/ I know that as the DM, I can just manipulate anything I want, I could very well make the Last War become even more bloody and devastating, but when I look over the ECS, it looks like it was coming to an end anyway and that the Mourning just provided a climax, kind of like the Pacific War with Japan... there would have been significantly more casualties if the US didn't drop the atomic bombs on Japan, but most likely the war would have ended anyway by 1946. I like plausibility. Thoughts? |
| #2yakmanDec 02, 2008 7:16:10 | If the Mourning were averted, the war would likely have continued. Although Cyre was weakened, it clearly was still in the fight, and although Breland was in the ascendency, it was just a matter of time before the Aundairans and the Thranes allied against them. In your scenario, the Inspired start and perpetuate the war. It's only the shock of the Mourning that breaks their hold--now the Mourning doesn't happen. The Inspired influence is still there, the antagonisms are still there and have no reason to go away. That being said, the Last War was probably heading towards some form of conclusion without the Mourning anyways. Although the war could be seen as economically and politically sustainable, Cyre could have been a few years away from surrender at the time of the Mourning. Perhaps your characters avert the Mourning (and are super pumped because they are Cyran nationalists) and return to their time just to see Cyre's heartland occupied and divided between Karrnath, Darguun, and Valenar, who quickly decide to land with two feet on the population. The resistance is weak and divided, with the Queen a thrall of a Valenar tyrant, her son Prince Oargev rotting in some Karrnathi jail, her generals defected to Breland... and the only sign of true resistance comes from a mighty warforged calling himself the Lord of Blades...... How's that for unintended consequences? |
| #3ScrinoverlordDec 02, 2008 7:30:42 | Well if the Mourning was averted, there would be a lot more people alive today, for sure. Political wise? I don't know. Maybe another outside force would try to end the war? Dragonmarked houses? No. They're profiting from the war. Dragons? More likely, but none from Argonnessen. |
| #4hnauDec 03, 2008 1:29:48 | I like your idea that everyone was going to turn against Breland eventually to level the playing field, I can see the Inspired pushing for something like that. Maybe I will make it so that the Last War is merely continuing, and in the last four years the Cyrans have been pushed back on all sides, especially from Breland, and suddenly there is a turn against Breland who appears close to become the victor. A lot more death and destruction, but when considering the Mournland, it is the greater trade-off... that is until a few more decades down the line, of course. Darguun, Karrnath and Valenar dividing up Cyre? Hmmm... I could see Valenar going on the offensive and enslaving/subjugating all humans in their path, but no puppet state with the Cyran Queen. Karrnath, sure, though they might begin to call themselves Galifar with the territory of two of the Five Nations. Darguun, I don't think so. Lord of Blades as the good guy is certainly interesting, I wonder how I could spin that... however, I definitely think it would be better in the long-term just to perpetuate the war. And maybe there will begin a Dragon incursion when it is discovered that the magic being used is too powerful... leaving a shattered, apocalyptic Khorvaire where the Inspired begin picking up the pieces. Then: Half-Life 2-esque Rebellion. |
| #5PJammaGodDec 03, 2008 5:16:02 | Okies Hnau asked for plausability so I'll run with a random tanget to (hopefully) help give them some ideas. Firstly out of the Last War, especially in the later years, the leaders of their various countries weren't as interested in success as survival and perhaps keeping the other countries out of their borders. For anybody (and very specifically the shorter lived races), anybody born post 970 YK would have known no different from the constand struggle of war and "success". These are people who were brought up knowing nothing else and fighting purely for the sake of fighting (and old/lost grudges long forgotten). You also need to look to the leaders themselves for insight into their character. King Boranel was never interested in war, he took more after his father and fought to protect Breland (which had been respectively ignored or walked all over in the early years of the war). So he would have been looking for any way to sue for peace. Kaius is an even more extreme (and ruthless) version of Boranel. Since he's the only leader who can legitimately claim to have seen the entire Last War and the lasting repercussions, the fellow certainly doesn't want the war dragging out anymore than it already had. The fact that he so readily pushed for the Thronehold Accord gives insight into his mind. And the fact that he's willing to do anything (unlike the more altruistic Boranel) to establish peace makes him that much more dangerous an opponent for the warmongering types. Queen Dannel is a different kettle of fish. She was well known for her rather harsh mood swings and debilitating bouts of melancholy. So with enemies pushing in from all sides during 990 Yk onwards, peace would have been a welcome reprieve, no matter the circumstances. Of course by this stage she was the only royal who still attempted to assert claims to Galifar's crown by the later stages of the war (egged on by her overly ambitious and perhaps blinded by ego generals). Jaela Daran was only six when she assumed the mantle as spiritual and temporal leader of Thrane (though the Diet still control much in principle) but the young girl had already shown much wisdom and insight into current world events. The fact that she attempted to push for peace with Cyre (though was rebuffed by Cyre) shows how much she would have attempted to find another path. The fly in the ointment is Queen Aurala of Aundair. This woman is the Moghedienof Khorvaire. Very ambitious, extremely intelligent, charming, resourceful and an ice queen. A dangerous combination with someone with (hidden) aspirations for Galifar's Crown. Out of the five leaders I can see only her as having reason to continue the war, or at least manipulate events for her benefit. So getting back to the original point. If the Mourning were averted then yes you wouldn't have had the leaders and their generals suddenly forced into the Thronehold Accords. Instead I expect there would have been a slow transition over the next perhaps two years as the various leaders (and perhaps Aurala for her own reasons) moved various diplomatic envoy's across Khorvaire to promote stability and perhaps a renewed focus on peace. And this is over course the perfect setting for the "independant mediators" of Riedra to offer to help negotiate peace and have everybody sit down at the table. Oh and if the inspired Dominator Tirashana happened to be at that meeting, what a scary thought... |
| #6hnauDec 03, 2008 19:53:47 | So getting back to the original point. If the Mourning were averted then yes you wouldn't have had the leaders and their generals suddenly forced into the Thronehold Accords. Instead I expect there would have been a slow transition over the next perhaps two years as the various leaders (and perhaps Aurala for her own reasons) moved various diplomatic envoy's across Khorvaire to promote stability and perhaps a renewed focus on peace. And this is over course the perfect setting for the "independant mediators" of Riedra to offer to help negotiate peace and have everybody sit down at the table. Oh and if the inspired Dominator Tirashana happened to be at that meeting, what a scary thought... Indeed. Certainly Breland would accept Reidra as a mediator to a Thronehold Conference... perhaps Karrnath would agree as well with the Reidrans helping alleviate famine in the country with overseas aid? With the right plants, the Quori could mind seed all of the leaders of Khorvaire and create any peace they so desired. If this is what would have happened, then this is what the Quori had planned all along. This scenario begs the question, however, on why didn't the Quori do this originally in 996 YK? How did the Mourning change their plans drastically? Did Cyre have a big part to play in the Second Sundering? That's not outright direct enough for my players to understand the difference. "Oh, the Last War ended any way, and Reidra is extending foreign aid to every nation on the continent, great, so... is the campaign over?" It seems it would still take a while for the action to get intense once more. I think I like the idea that the Quori manipulate the Khorvairans into further warfare. Perhaps Lord Ruken ir'Clarn leads a parliamentary coup d'etat against King Boranel after a series of disasters of the battlefield, citing the reason of Boranel's age getting in the way of national security. Aundair and Cyre continue to go at it, leaving only Karrnath and Thrane somewhat pushing for peace. That's only the Five Nations, though. Darguun would most definitely continue fighting Cyre. Droaam would begin a more serious military campaign against Breland. The Talenta Plains would still be used as a battleground between Karrnathi and Cyran forces, Zilargo would continue fighting with the Brelish armies, and Valenar would continue pushing against Cyre as long as they can, but the rest of the non-Five Nations would be pretty peaceful. While I can see value in your idea, it just seems to me like the Quori would want to keep the Last War continuing as long as possible. |
| #7PJammaGodDec 04, 2008 8:31:31 | I can see what you're saying Hnau, the Dreaming Dark may have serious motivation to keep the Last War going and slowly wear down the resolve of the Five Nations before moving in for "the kill" so to say. Okies another tanget here. You asked why the Quori didn't swoop in originally in 996 YK (assuming of course they weren't behind the Mourning in the first place). Perhaps their plans were tied to Cyre because of what Cyre was and represented. Looking over the information given in Secrets of Sarlona it's made immediately apparent that the Quori are as much about assimilation as control, because assimilation and manipulation of culture is control. They took the original nations of Sarlona and slowly over the course of a thousand years perverted them into the hollow wrecks (in my mind) that they are today. Stagnanted and monolithic (unchanging like the Dreaming Dark wish Dal Quor to be). So jumping back to Cyre, the sudden loss of this country would have been devastating to their plans for slow cultural assimilation. Cyre was the heart and soul of Khorvaire, the centre for culture, fashion, the arts and everything that helps enhance and build upon civilisation. Maybe their original plan would have been to build up a presence in Cyre over time, introducing various cultural themes and styles, elements that would slowly be expanded and assimilated into the greater cultures of Khorvaire. Divide and conquer from within as the new wave of "Cyran Appreciation" (cultural ideology) sweeps the Five Nations (and beyond). So when Cyre goes b00m you've got problems, real big problems. How do you steal the heart and soul of a continent when it suddenly is annihilated, and not according to your timetable? It would have rocked the Dreaming Dark, all this time and planning, all the seeds that had been planted, dreams manipulated, events co-ordinated. All that gone to waste. Of course the DD wouldn't have put all their eggs in one basket, but nobody in their wildest dreams imagined that an entire nation would be snuffed out in moments (especially not the masters of dreams themselves, the Dreaming Dark). So 996 YK marches on and the Dreaming Dark are still scrambling to pick up the pieces and get their plans back in order. Instead of having one place to slowly expand upon they now have four remaining nations to manipulate. Sure the Dreaming Dark are master manipulators, but even for them working so many angles in so many places at once has got to be a strain (no never mind the Adaran's kicking up a fuss back in the Motherland as well as the Kalashtar across the planet). Long story short, the Dreaming Dark had an almighty spanner ruin their delicate planning and they didn't get a chance to act otherwise. Now jumping to the changed timeline, Cyre remains and is now making peace overtures to the other five nations (at the behest of an unusually rational and calm Queen Dannel *dun dun dun*) with Riedra offering to help. Dannel is willing to set aside old wounds and see to it that the continent be healed. She recognises that Cyre's automatic and unquestioned claims to the throne were unfair and unjust, she wishes to help everyone see true peace come to pass. And Riedra has graciously agreed to help mediate as an independant diplomatic power. Also some new fashion styles and plays have been recently penned and release from Cyre and they are the new rage... (bte Hnau huge kudos for starting this topic. It's the most fun I've had in ages!) |
| #8yakmanDec 04, 2008 10:37:28 | As for why the Quori haven't already swooped in, I think the answer is simple: they've done this before. What they've learned: 1) They watched Sarlona tear itself apart for Two Centuries--Khorvaire has only gone at it for one. they can wait and pick their shot--humans will keep killing each other for a long time after they should've stopped. 2) It pays to make sure you have your ducks in a row. Look at the factors involved in Khorvaire that (presumably) had no analogue in Sarlona: the Valenar, the Dragonmarked, the Demon Wastes, the goblinoids. these are things that the Inspired are going to want to make sure they understand before they move in. 3) What was critical to the victory in Sarlona was building a new religious system. The Inspired have not yet begun that process (or if they have, its in its infancy). The Path of Light was critical to ending the fighting in Sarlona, and it hasn't yet been introduced in Khorvaire--although the Inspired are probably laying the groundwork for the first conversions.... |
| #9balardDec 04, 2008 20:15:55 | You could say that the Inspired had a great presence in Cyre, with many mind seeded and actual possessed folks in all level of society. Than came the Mourning. All the quori inspired and mind seed, died. For good. No new energy recycling by the Dreaming Dark. Many of these guys are the real movers and shakers, and Dal Quor see this enormous change as the beginning of the Turn of the Ages. They try the whole time traveling thing to put everything back in the tracks. Very cool concept. They assemble and stop the Mourning, then fight and save a war torn Cyre from their enemies. At the end of the second arc, they activate the machine again(maybe as a hint for a mentor who works for the Chamber) but go to the future. Instead of seeing a united Galifar again under the control of Cyre like the events of the present lead then to believe, they see Khorvaire totally broken and dominated by the Inspired, and realize that they were manipulated and were responsible for all. Now they have to fight epic battles against the Dreaming Dark, assemble the machine again, travel back in time, CAUSE the Mourning(this time they realize their on ploy to stop thenselves), sacrifice their kingdom to cause the end of the war and finally start the Turn of the Ages. man, I wish I had this idea BEFORE starting a campaign.... |
| #10thaliostDec 04, 2008 22:11:35 | ]The resistance is weak and divided, with the Queen a thrall of a Valenar tyrant, her son Prince Oargev rotting in some Karrnathi jail, her generals defected to Breland... and the only sign of true resistance comes from a mighty warforged calling himself the Lord of Blades...... Have to say I really like this ;) |
| #11GiloDec 05, 2008 0:03:39 | I'm too lazy so I'll quote myself from the "Epic destiny, fight a Demon lord of pain..." thread:While the party is somewhere east of the Mournland, the cleric PC receives a magical message from Keeper of the Flame, Jaela Daran (in the form of her image and voice projected in the campfire). she urge him to divert to Stillwater Station following an augury received from the flame. |