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What's in the Player's Guide

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
androkguz
Jun 28, 2009 16:08:31 I'm gonna buy some books soon, and I was undecided between the Player's Handbook II, the Monster Manual II and the Eberron Books.

Can you tell me what's in this books? (well, I know about the PHB2, i've seen it, I just don't own one)

Advice is also welcome
#2
salla
Jun 28, 2009 16:18:37 Well, if you're more of a player than a DM, and you're playing Eberron, you should probably get the Eberron Player's guide.

It's got the Eberron-specific races, the Dragonmarks and other feats, as well as your basic game world overview, and I'm sure there's more. I haven't had the chance to get one yet, the local store only ordered two and they got snapped up, and they haven't refreshed the order yet.
#3
tallric_kruush
Jun 28, 2009 16:26:43 Even as an avid lover of Eberron, I can't imagine buying the EPG before owning PH2. Buy the Player's Handbook 2, first. It has races, classes, feats, Paragon Paths, etc... and has then in abundance. Plus, even the most diehard Eberron fan will eventually have to have this one. If for some reason you can pass on all those great classes and whatnot, you'll still want your Shifters, right?

If you intend to play in Eberron, then you should definitely get around to purchasing the EPG. It's a must for any Eberron player, as it's the primary (and perhaps only) place you're ever going to find Eberron-specific mechanics such as dragonmarks. It also features the Changeling, Kalashtar, and Warforged races and the expected supporting mechanics. A good amount of the EPG's content focuses on dragonmarked PCs, and for good reason. It loses some utility to non-Eberron gamers, though, due to this heavy focus.

Unless you're regularly a DM, I don't see the MM2 being a high priority. It's a nice one to have, no doubt, but of far less importance to most of us.

So, my recommendations: 1st) PH2 hands-down, without a doubt; 2nd) EPG is a good purchase, and an eventual must for Eberron fans; 3rd) MM2 if you really think you'll need it.
#4
veles
Jun 28, 2009 17:43:00 If you're playing Eberron the EPG (and CG if you're the DM) are essential IMO. If not you're not playing Ebberon then the PHB2 is a good one to go for. There's not as much in the EPG in terms of classes/etc. but there's lots of essential stuff in there.
#5
androkguz
Jun 28, 2009 17:43:47 "unless you are regularly a DM"
"If you're more of a player than a DM"

I'm 98% of the time, the DM. And 70% of the time, we play on Eberron. Of course, I also like my players to have the necesary books for them to play. We share them a lot.

So, thanks for the advice guys, but do you mind telling me what's on the MM2?
I already own a bunch of Eberron books, and I have right now only one regular campaing in which there's only one PC that belongs to a dragonmarked house. Could you please give me the index of the book or something?

So far, I think I'm going with MM2 and saving money for the ECG, but I'm far from convinced.
#6
Arcane_Guyver
Jun 28, 2009 18:33:00 If you're a DM, MM2 is the book to get. Lots of cool new monsters, with improved solos and minions.

The EPG is good, though it's there primarily as a rules update of Eberron materials to 4e. For world details, you may just want to wait for the ECG.
#7
tallric_kruush
Jun 28, 2009 19:44:04 I'm shocked so many seem to recommend the EPG ahead of the PH2. The PH2 is brimming with valuable crunch. Does everyone really hold those new races/classes/feats/whatnot in such low esteem that they would buy the EPG first? No one's a bigger Eberron fan than I, but you can run a campaign without it.

Without the PH2, though, you lose out on the Deva, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, and Shifter races. You also miss out on the Avenger, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Invoker, Shaman, Sorceror, and Warden classes. You miss out on all the PPs, Feats, Rituals, and a lot more.

One could argue that the PH2 is more valuable to an Eberron campaign than the EPG itself. I know I'd hate to run Eberron without Gnomes, Shifters, and Half-Orcs; and likewise for Avengers, Bards, Barbarians, Druids, Shamans, Wardens, and Sorcerors. Some of those are races and classes that play a huge role in the setting's past and present!

To each his own, but in my opinion the EPG can hardly complete with the PH2 as a gaming resource -- no matter the setting in which you play.

The MM2 will no doubt be of use to a DM, but your players will love you if you buy the PH2. Personally, though, I'd make one of them buy it, and pickup one of the remaining two. ;)
#8
superdeadsmurf
Jun 28, 2009 20:56:46
I'm shocked so many seem to recommend the EPG ahead of the PH2. The PH2 is brimming with valuable crunch. Does everyone really hold those new races/classes/feats/whatnot in such low esteem that they would buy the EPG first? No one's a bigger Eberron fan than I, but you can run a campaign without it.

Without the PH2, though, you lose out on the Deva, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, and Shifter races. You also miss out on the Avenger, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Invoker, Shaman, Sorceror, and Warden classes. You miss out on all the PPs, Feats, Rituals, and a lot more.

One could argue that the PH2 is more valuable to an Eberron campaign than the EPG itself. I know I'd hate to run Eberron without Gnomes, Shifters, and Half-Orcs; and likewise for Avengers, Bards, Barbarians, Druids, Shamans, Wardens, and Sorcerors. Some of those are races and classes that play a huge role in the setting's past and present!

To each his own, but in my opinion the EPG can hardly complete with the PH2 as a gaming resource -- no matter the setting in which you play.

The MM2 will no doubt be of use to a DM, but your players will love you if you buy the PH2. Personally, though, I'd make one of them buy it, and pickup one of the remaining two. ;)

PHB2 is really important, because you can at least get the Warforged from the MM1 (or slightly better from the first 4E DDI dragon, still free), and changelings are basically the same as Dopplegangers in the MM1.

The MM2 monsters are great, and have some great Eberron monsters in it (more gnomes, couatl, more warforged (including Titans) etc) it comes second. If you have DDI it's not 100% worth it though because you have access to them all, at least during prep.

The EPG is really really good, and it probably my favourite 4E book so far, but I think the PHB2 is more important for Eberron games actually.

I currently use for my campaign: PHB1 & 2, Arcane & Martial Power, EPG & adventurer's vault on the player's side, and DMG and MM1 and DDI for prep. All of these are invaluable.
#9
androkguz
Jun 29, 2009 22:42:26 Thanks for all the responses, you have been of great help.

I would like to clarify my situation, thought.
It's not me buying the book, it's all of us. Well, not all, but me and some PCs.
Also, we kind of have access to a PHB2, a friend of us has one and we have made a couple of characters, copied down the feats and powers...
Yet, it get kind of tedious to keep consulting the guy whenever there's something that needs to be checked.

Can anyone tell me what monsters are in the MM2? Thanks Superdead for that, but what else is inside? Metallic Dragons? Vampires? Humans? What?

Also... am I missing a lot of fun by not knowing the place of eladrins, dragonborn, deva and tieflings in Eberron?
I happen to have all of those races as PC characters, but have so far been able to live them without giving much explanation (their misterious past is so mysterious that not even the players know them)
I have made up some stuff but... is the EPG's take worth it?
Can you give me a hint? (or outright tell me!)

Thanks
#10
Arcane_Guyver
Jun 30, 2009 0:12:22 Lessee...we got:

Angels, ankhegs, giant ants, archons, barghests, behirs, beholders, bullywugs, centaurs, centipedes, chaos shards, cockatrices, colossi, couatls, cyclops, darkmantles, Demogorgon and his entourage (including Dagon!), demons, devas, devils, dimensional marauders, direguards, djinni, metallic dragons (adamantine, copper, gold, iron & silver), drakes, drakkoths (dracotaurs), duergar, eladrin, elementals, fell taint, fey lingerers, firbolgs, fomorians, genasi, ghost legionnaires, giants, gnolls, gnomes, goblins, golems, goliaths, gray renders, half-elves, half-orcs, hawks, homunculi, humans, hydras, kenku, krenshar, lizardfolk, lycanthropes, mammoths, maruts, myconids, neogi, nothics, oni, oozes, phoelarchs, remorhazes, retrievers, rust monsters, shadar-kai, sharks, skeletons, slaad, slaughterstone constructs, sphinxes, spiders, spriggans, sprite swarms, star spawn, steel predators, tigers, troglodytes, trolls, predatory vines, warforged, will-o'-wisps, winter wolves, witherlings, wood woads, and xorns.

Whew!
#11
tallric_kruush
Jul 01, 2009 15:53:38
Also... am I missing a lot of fun by not knowing the place of eladrins, dragonborn, deva and tieflings in Eberron?
I happen to have all of those races as PC characters, but have so far been able to live them without giving much explanation (their misterious past is so mysterious that not even the players know them)
I have made up some stuff but... is the EPG's take worth it?
Can you give me a hint? (or outright tell me!)

Thanks

Yes, I'd say it's worth buying. I've been harder on the EPG than anyone else that frequents the Eberron boards. I think I may be the only person who frequents the Eberron boards who had anything other than minor complaints. :P That said, it's a fine resource and well worth the money.

It will provide official answers for all of the races you've listed, plus some. Overall, I like the way the new/reenvisioned races were incorporated. Even if you were to go a different route than the EPG suggests, it would still be nice to have the "official" answers, right?
#12
hastur_nz
Jul 08, 2009 22:29:35 I'm DMing an Eberron game, have been for a few months now. I've only had a flick through the EPG, but already I'm impressed at just how much I've gotten out of it as a DM - certainly more than I expected. It's only about 50% "crunch" (rules), with the rest "fluff" i.e. information about the world. For me, as a DM, it's the "fluff" that I find most useful, it's helped me get a better feel for the world, and inspired some plot tie-ins that I plan to use starting quite soon.

I'm not sure how you can compare it to MM2 though, it's apples and oranges - MM2 is just a bunch of (mostly great) new monsters - pure crunch for the DM; PHB2 is all crunch for the players; EPG is a mix of crunch for the players, and fluff for players and DM alike. It all depends on what your group will get the most out of - new foes to fight, new player options (of which PHB2 has a lot more than EPG), or 4e-specific fluff for Eberron.

If you know Eberron well from 3.5 (I don't), you might get a little less out of the EPG, but from what I've read I think a lot of Eberron die-hards also like the EGP. I saw a little of Eberron under 3.5 as a player, but only DM'd wit it when 4e came out. As I say, so far I like EPG, but I'm just the DM... my players haven't read it yet (but hopefully they will soon).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 androkguz Jun 28, 2009 16:08:31	I'm gonna buy some books soon, and I was undecided between the Player's Handbook II, the Monster Manual II and the Eberron Books. Can you tell me what's in this books? (well, I know about the PHB2, i've seen it, I just don't own one) Advice is also welcome
#2 salla Jun 28, 2009 16:18:37	Well, if you're more of a player than a DM, and you're playing Eberron, you should probably get the Eberron Player's guide. It's got the Eberron-specific races, the Dragonmarks and other feats, as well as your basic game world overview, and I'm sure there's more. I haven't had the chance to get one yet, the local store only ordered two and they got snapped up, and they haven't refreshed the order yet.
#3 tallric_kruush Jun 28, 2009 16:26:43	Even as an avid lover of Eberron, I can't imagine buying the EPG before owning PH2. Buy the Player's Handbook 2, first. It has races, classes, feats, Paragon Paths, etc... and has then in abundance. Plus, even the most diehard Eberron fan will eventually have to have this one. If for some reason you can pass on all those great classes and whatnot, you'll still want your Shifters, right? If you intend to play in Eberron, then you should definitely get around to purchasing the EPG. It's a must for any Eberron player, as it's the primary (and perhaps only) place you're ever going to find Eberron-specific mechanics such as dragonmarks. It also features the Changeling, Kalashtar, and Warforged races and the expected supporting mechanics. A good amount of the EPG's content focuses on dragonmarked PCs, and for good reason. It loses some utility to non-Eberron gamers, though, due to this heavy focus. Unless you're regularly a DM, I don't see the MM2 being a high priority. It's a nice one to have, no doubt, but of far less importance to most of us. So, my recommendations: 1st) PH2 hands-down, without a doubt; 2nd) EPG is a good purchase, and an eventual must for Eberron fans; 3rd) MM2 if you really think you'll need it.
#4 veles Jun 28, 2009 17:43:00	If you're playing Eberron the EPG (and CG if you're the DM) are essential IMO. If not you're not playing Ebberon then the PHB2 is a good one to go for. There's not as much in the EPG in terms of classes/etc. but there's lots of essential stuff in there.
#5 androkguz Jun 28, 2009 17:43:47	"unless you are regularly a DM" "If you're more of a player than a DM" I'm 98% of the time, the DM. And 70% of the time, we play on Eberron. Of course, I also like my players to have the necesary books for them to play. We share them a lot. So, thanks for the advice guys, but do you mind telling me what's on the MM2? I already own a bunch of Eberron books, and I have right now only one regular campaing in which there's only one PC that belongs to a dragonmarked house. Could you please give me the index of the book or something? So far, I think I'm going with MM2 and saving money for the ECG, but I'm far from convinced.
#6 Arcane_Guyver Jun 28, 2009 18:33:00	If you're a DM, MM2 is the book to get. Lots of cool new monsters, with improved solos and minions. The EPG is good, though it's there primarily as a rules update of Eberron materials to 4e. For world details, you may just want to wait for the ECG.
#7 tallric_kruush Jun 28, 2009 19:44:04	I'm shocked so many seem to recommend the EPG ahead of the PH2. The PH2 is brimming with valuable crunch. Does everyone really hold those new races/classes/feats/whatnot in such low esteem that they would buy the EPG first? No one's a bigger Eberron fan than I, but you can run a campaign without it. Without the PH2, though, you lose out on the Deva, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, and Shifter races. You also miss out on the Avenger, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Invoker, Shaman, Sorceror, and Warden classes. You miss out on all the PPs, Feats, Rituals, and a lot more. One could argue that the PH2 is more valuable to an Eberron campaign than the EPG itself. I know I'd hate to run Eberron without Gnomes, Shifters, and Half-Orcs; and likewise for Avengers, Bards, Barbarians, Druids, Shamans, Wardens, and Sorcerors. Some of those are races and classes that play a huge role in the setting's past and present! To each his own, but in my opinion the EPG can hardly complete with the PH2 as a gaming resource -- no matter the setting in which you play. The MM2 will no doubt be of use to a DM, but your players will love you if you buy the PH2. Personally, though, I'd make one of them buy it, and pickup one of the remaining two. ;)
#8 superdeadsmurf Jun 28, 2009 20:56:46	I'm shocked so many seem to recommend the EPG ahead of the PH2. The PH2 is brimming with valuable crunch. Does everyone really hold those new races/classes/feats/whatnot in such low esteem that they would buy the EPG first? No one's a bigger Eberron fan than I, but you can run a campaign without it. Without the PH2, though, you lose out on the Deva, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, and Shifter races. You also miss out on the Avenger, Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Invoker, Shaman, Sorceror, and Warden classes. You miss out on all the PPs, Feats, Rituals, and a lot more. One could argue that the PH2 is more valuable to an Eberron campaign than the EPG itself. I know I'd hate to run Eberron without Gnomes, Shifters, and Half-Orcs; and likewise for Avengers, Bards, Barbarians, Druids, Shamans, Wardens, and Sorcerors. Some of those are races and classes that play a huge role in the setting's past and present! To each his own, but in my opinion the EPG can hardly complete with the PH2 as a gaming resource -- no matter the setting in which you play. The MM2 will no doubt be of use to a DM, but your players will love you if you buy the PH2. Personally, though, I'd make one of them buy it, and pickup one of the remaining two. ;) PHB2 is really important, because you can at least get the Warforged from the MM1 (or slightly better from the first 4E DDI dragon, still free), and changelings are basically the same as Dopplegangers in the MM1. The MM2 monsters are great, and have some great Eberron monsters in it (more gnomes, couatl, more warforged (including Titans) etc) it comes second. If you have DDI it's not 100% worth it though because you have access to them all, at least during prep. The EPG is really really good, and it probably my favourite 4E book so far, but I think the PHB2 is more important for Eberron games actually. I currently use for my campaign: PHB1 & 2, Arcane & Martial Power, EPG & adventurer's vault on the player's side, and DMG and MM1 and DDI for prep. All of these are invaluable.
#9 androkguz Jun 29, 2009 22:42:26	Thanks for all the responses, you have been of great help. I would like to clarify my situation, thought. It's not me buying the book, it's all of us. Well, not all, but me and some PCs. Also, we kind of have access to a PHB2, a friend of us has one and we have made a couple of characters, copied down the feats and powers... Yet, it get kind of tedious to keep consulting the guy whenever there's something that needs to be checked. Can anyone tell me what monsters are in the MM2? Thanks Superdead for that, but what else is inside? Metallic Dragons? Vampires? Humans? What? Also... am I missing a lot of fun by not knowing the place of eladrins, dragonborn, deva and tieflings in Eberron? I happen to have all of those races as PC characters, but have so far been able to live them without giving much explanation (their misterious past is so mysterious that not even the players know them) I have made up some stuff but... is the EPG's take worth it? Can you give me a hint? (or outright tell me!) Thanks
#10 Arcane_Guyver Jun 30, 2009 0:12:22	Lessee...we got: Angels, ankhegs, giant ants, archons, barghests, behirs, beholders, bullywugs, centaurs, centipedes, chaos shards, cockatrices, colossi, couatls, cyclops, darkmantles, Demogorgon and his entourage (including Dagon!), demons, devas, devils, dimensional marauders, direguards, djinni, metallic dragons (adamantine, copper, gold, iron & silver), drakes, drakkoths (dracotaurs), duergar, eladrin, elementals, fell taint, fey lingerers, firbolgs, fomorians, genasi, ghost legionnaires, giants, gnolls, gnomes, goblins, golems, goliaths, gray renders, half-elves, half-orcs, hawks, homunculi, humans, hydras, kenku, krenshar, lizardfolk, lycanthropes, mammoths, maruts, myconids, neogi, nothics, oni, oozes, phoelarchs, remorhazes, retrievers, rust monsters, shadar-kai, sharks, skeletons, slaad, slaughterstone constructs, sphinxes, spiders, spriggans, sprite swarms, star spawn, steel predators, tigers, troglodytes, trolls, predatory vines, warforged, will-o'-wisps, winter wolves, witherlings, wood woads, and xorns. Whew!
#11 tallric_kruush Jul 01, 2009 15:53:38	Also... am I missing a lot of fun by not knowing the place of eladrins, dragonborn, deva and tieflings in Eberron? I happen to have all of those races as PC characters, but have so far been able to live them without giving much explanation (their misterious past is so mysterious that not even the players know them) I have made up some stuff but... is the EPG's take worth it? Can you give me a hint? (or outright tell me!) Thanks Yes, I'd say it's worth buying. I've been harder on the EPG than anyone else that frequents the Eberron boards. I think I may be the only person who frequents the Eberron boards who had anything other than minor complaints. :P That said, it's a fine resource and well worth the money. It will provide official answers for all of the races you've listed, plus some. Overall, I like the way the new/reenvisioned races were incorporated. Even if you were to go a different route than the EPG suggests, it would still be nice to have the "official" answers, right?
#12 hastur_nz Jul 08, 2009 22:29:35	I'm DMing an Eberron game, have been for a few months now. I've only had a flick through the EPG, but already I'm impressed at just how much I've gotten out of it as a DM - certainly more than I expected. It's only about 50% "crunch" (rules), with the rest "fluff" i.e. information about the world. For me, as a DM, it's the "fluff" that I find most useful, it's helped me get a better feel for the world, and inspired some plot tie-ins that I plan to use starting quite soon. I'm not sure how you can compare it to MM2 though, it's apples and oranges - MM2 is just a bunch of (mostly great) new monsters - pure crunch for the DM; PHB2 is all crunch for the players; EPG is a mix of crunch for the players, and fluff for players and DM alike. It all depends on what your group will get the most out of - new foes to fight, new player options (of which PHB2 has a lot more than EPG), or 4e-specific fluff for Eberron. If you know Eberron well from 3.5 (I don't), you might get a little less out of the EPG, but from what I've read I think a lot of Eberron die-hards also like the EGP. I saw a little of Eberron under 3.5 as a player, but only DM'd wit it when 4e came out. As I say, so far I like EPG, but I'm just the DM... my players haven't read it yet (but hopefully they will soon).