Looking at the map of Eberron, it just feels kind of small. I know this is just my opinion and there could be some strong arguments about how Xen’drik or Argonessen satisfy the “mysterious east” or “here there be monsters” mystique, but I’m honestly thinking of expanding the globe a bit so it isn’t a case of where you can go from Khorvaire to Sarlona by sailing east OR west.
Fer instance, I’d really like to expand Droamm and the Shadow Marches to make them larger, more looming areas of potential monster threat on the edge of civilization. Beyond the Shadow Marches there could be some distant, unknown wastelands or something.
However, one of the things I like most about Eberron is that it doesn’t make any attempts to mirror real world cultures. There are no Feudal Japan style nations or toga-wearing Roman-esque nations. So without rubber stamping a Nile Valley of mummy-filled pyramids or the like, what do you think there’s room for on Eberron? What kind of territory do you find lacking that I could add?
Perhaps a homeland for the dwarves where we find the clans of Mror Holds are just a colony of dwarves who escaped an oppressive and evil nation of dark dwarves. I can see the Mark of Warding taking on a new meaning when used to enslave others.
A birthplace of the gods where natives are convinced the gods once walked the land? Not only does this become a site of pilgrimage for the devout of Khorvaire, but the local legends could provide some insight into the pre-split days when the pantheon was united.
Kobold Samurai.
I think that you are not seeing the bigger picture.
I think you got the opposite impression of what I was looking for. I'm NOT looking for real-world analogs. And honestly, I'm not saying the setting is lacking for content. All I'd like to see the world expanded off the edges of the map a bit to give it the feeling of planetary scale.
When I do that, I want to add in things that are appropriately Eberron-y. That includes not just photocopying over some real world culture. I'm really hoping to see some ideas about gaps that are still left in the Eberron setting that I could fill, such as the origins of the dwarves that I'd mentioned above.
1. underwater kingdoms of aquativ elves (possibly elves altered by the giants for underwater tasks as previously mentioned). their proximity to sahuagin gave rise to aventi.
2. Dromites coming from Sarlona. Menaeds coming from islands off of Sarlona.
3. Origins of the dwarves as they came from Frostfell ... so you could explore that a bit more ...what is up there?
think of it this way ... since the beginnings of Eberron, His Infernal Bovinity has sprung upon many of his own ideas as to what he would do with different things concerning Eberron. Words of creator are almost as good as official. In someways, they could even be better. Look through his dragonshards, he gives many more ideas in there.
Well i have to say that i do not think you can get to Sarlona by sailing east OR west. Think the humans that came form the west just got lucky and got through a water way. If you look at the map it does not line up.
I'm not sure I follow. Sarlona is *due east* of Khorvaire. In Secrets of Sarlona it's mentioned that there's a port of departure for Khorvaire from easter Sarlona which is what made me realize that the map of Eberron wasn't just a single hemisphere and got me to thinking about this whole deal.
As for the underwater kingdom, I really like that idea. Instead of packing it in between Sarlona and Khorvaire, though, I'd follow my original goal of expanding the world and putting it west of Xen'drik. I saw somewhere that there was some Aboleth interest in fragments of the Prophecy found below the sea (maybe one of those Dragonshards mentioned?). I wonder if I could tie that into it. Perhaps a civilization sunk by the Aboleth in order to gain access to the Prophecy fragment or some such. Since then, our aquatic elves could've moved in and be warring with the Aboleth for the prime real estate.
map of the known world then ... does not necessarily mean complete map
Yep. That's pretty much where I'm starting from.
Do they exist? Are humans native to Eberron? Let's just say I'm hoping the rumors about a 4e-related d20 Modern are true...
Also I have toyed with the idea of adding another continent for either a different place for the characters to start and they eventually end up on Khorvaire, or for an external threat beyond the shores of Khorvaire. But so far I haven't really used this.
The first two go pretty far back into the archives and have lost their formatting so I'll SBLOCK them and reformat them here.
Risislom
The original thread can be found here
An exotic and luxurious local can be the location of a murder that needs a tough as nails detective to solve, or it can be the setting of a missing person that must be found. Such a site can also be the setting of a well planned and executed heist; whether that heist is for the cash or for rare antiquities collected by the proprietor.
An upscale resort is not the first thing one thinks of when they think Dungeons and Dragons, but one of my favorite aspects of Eberron is its ability to continue to defy expectations. So when I read this passage in Dragonmarked,
The wealthy of Khorvaire vacation at Ghallanda resorts and gambling halls.
It got me thinking, "Now what would a Ghallanda resort be like?" Given the wonders of Eberron society... how far would Ghallanda go to make someplace worth going to...
Imagine if you will....
Risislom
Nestled on a remote ridge on one of the peninsulas of Zilargo is a wonder that defies its location. Hidden deep in the tropical forests of Zilargo is a manifest zone of Risia, the plane of ice. The humidity of the nearby rain forests and sea has caused this wondrous ridge line to be blanketed in fluffy snow all year round.
For more than two centuries House Ghallanda has run Risislom, a luxury resort combining both the tropical and the alpine experience for Khorvaire's elite. A popular destination for nobles and merchants from Zilargo and Breland, most of whom have never seen snow.Facilities
House Ghallanda has two main complexes that make up the resort of Risislom, the first makes up the 'tropical' side of the resort. Located near a narrow inlet the 'Risislom Inn&Resort' is the larger of two. With beautiful beaches and crystal clear water it's a treat after a long chilly day of play in the snow. The Inn serves as the main lodgeing for both tourists and staff at the resort, the small harbor is also only way in for customers and supplies. While all rooms at Risislom are expensive those at the Inn are the most affordable. While the Inn is top of the line and worth the trip it is not why people sail to Risislom, no the real attraction is the snow.
The Risislom Lodge, or simply 'The Lodge' is located just past the snowline on the ridge where Eberron and Risia touch. The way to the Lodge is by carriage pulled by magebred horses following a path cut by the water that occasionally melts off when the snow pushes itself beyond the bounds of the manifest zone. The Lodge itself has a small number of rooms to cater to the more affluent clients, however the most luxurious accomodations are the private cabins that are also set above the snow line, few can afford the cabins. Kings of Galifar and Barons of Houses can be counted amongst the few people who have stayed at these plush accomodations.
What most don't know is that the Lodge ties into the entrance of what seems to be ruins from the time of the Dhakaan Empire, the passages down have mostly collapsed mostly due to erosion and have been unexplored, there are no other known entrances. The entrance way to these tunnels served as the foundation of The Lodge, and the few clear tunnels a sort of basement for The Lodge.
Aside from The Lodge and the Private Cabins the only other building in the manifest zone is one set up by a gnomish group studying the possibilities for binding ice paraelemenals. Utilizing the thinness of the planes to facilitate their summonings.
Firearms... thats what I would add to Eberron. :P
When you can have a wand of multiple fireballs and multiple magic missiles, why do you need firearms?
When you can have a wand of multiple fireballs and multiple magic missiles, why do you need firearms?
1) 4e magic wands don't hold charges of magic ala 3e, so no more "wands of multiple fireballs and multiple magic missiles."
2) wands are useful to magic users alone. This was mostly true in 3e (where a few skill users could use the magic items ala the use magic item skill) and completely true in 4e (where a magic wand is to a spellcaster what a magic sword is to a fighter).
3) Nobody said the firearm had to be mundane... or even called a firearm. Hell, they can be called "staves" and "wands" for all I care. What I am looking for is a magic six shooter like device that can be used by non-spell casters as a ranged weapon. Sort of a way for a fighter (or ranger or rogue or etc.) to get their hands on a ranged single target spell... though of course not a spell of the same potency as what higher level spell casters can manage.
The way that I address this problem is through the use of a unique magic item developed by the Zilargo Elemental Binders in unison with the Twelve. The Elemental Hand Cannon.
The Elemental Hand Cannon
Superior Weapon, +3
Range - 15/30,
No Action Load (See Special)
1d12 damage.
(Special) Small Elementals are bound into Kyhber Shards that can be swapped out to provide versatility to the weapon, allowing the character to chamber a different elementally Attuned Khyber Shard as a move action.
Elemental Hand Cannon - 300 Gp
The Elemental Hand Cannon is a minorly magical, gem-studded device that uses a matrix of tiny Eberron and Kyhber Shards to concentrate elemental energy to be unleashed upon a foe.
Attuned Kyhber Shard - 150 Gp
Attuned Khyber Shards are slim, elongated, dark blue crystals that glow with the energies of the elemental bound within. Each shard has only one elemental bound within, granting the corresponding elemental damage type to attacks made with the Elemental Hand Cannon. An Attuned Kyhber Shard can be swapped out for another as a move action, and can be attuned for either Fire, Ice, Lightning, or Thunder.
As far as upgrading the weapon goes, I'd upgrade and enchant the shard instead. Here are a few potential examples from the Player's Hand Book.
Fire Burst Khyber Shard
Level: 3
Price: 680 gp
Weapon: Any ranged
Enhancement: +1 Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 fire damage
Power (Daily • Fire): Minor Action. The next ranged basic attack you make with this weapon before the end of your turn becomes a burst 1 centered on the target. Use your normal attack bonus for the basic attack, but against Reflex. Instead of normal damage, each target hit takes ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).
Flameburst Weapon Attack
A fiery surprise!
Daily Fire
Minor Action Ranged Burst 1
Attack: Use your normal attack bonus for the basic attack, but against Reflex.
Hit: Instead of normal damage, each target hit takes ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).
Thunderbust Khyber Shard
Level: 4
Price: 840 gp
Weapon: Any ranged
Enhancement: +1 Attack rolls and damage rolls
Critical: +1d6 thunder damage
Power (Daily • Thunder): Minor Action. The next ranged basic attack you make with this weapon before the end of your turn becomes a burst 1 centered on the target. Use your normal attack bonus for the basic attack, but against Fortitude. Each target hit takes thunder damage equal to the normal damage you would deal with a ranged basic attack with the weapon.
Thunderburst Weapon Attack
A burst of violent sound!
Daily Thunder
Action Ranged Burst 1
Attack: Use your normal attack bonus for the basic attack vs Fortitude.
Hit: Each target hit takes thunder damage equal to the normal damage you would deal with a ranged basic attack with the weapon.
Of course, on the other hand, you could enchant The Elemental Hand Cannon as a regular weapon, and still be able to purchase or otherwise upgrade the Attuned Khyber Shards in such a way that they would augment your attacks in a manner similar to the power of Red Dragonscale Armor.
DragonBreath Khyber Shard
Level 15
Property: Grants fire type damage to an Elemental Hand cannon.
Power (Daily Fire): Free Action. Use this power when you hit a target with a ranged attack with the Elemental Hand Cannon. The Target is immobilized and gains ongoing fire damage equal to 5 + your Constitution modifier (save ends both).
Level 20: Ongoing 10 + Constitution modifier fire damage.
Level 25: Ongoing 15 + Constitution modifier fire damage.
1. underwater kingdoms of aquativ elves (possibly elves altered by the giants for underwater tasks as previously mentioned). their proximity to sahuagin gave rise to aventi.
Actually, the dominant sea powers in my original map were sahuagin and merfolk, with the sahuagin being the more sophisticated force. The aquatic elves were a relatively small (and magically created) force that temporarily controlled a significant section of sahuagin territory, but were then pushed back to a much smaller territory. And yes, by this model the Aventi are created to infiltrate and strike this territory.
All of this remains in my personal campaign, and it's hinted at in a number of the books (and The Shattered Land) with the idea that ships crossing the Thunder Sea need to make arrangements to cross sahuagin territory.
I think it'd be Epic if I got it just right.
Actually, the dominant sea powers in my original map were sahuagin and merfolk, with the sahuagin being the more sophisticated force.
. . .
All of this remains in my personal campaign, and it's hinted at in a number of the books
Do you think there's a chance that Wizards of the Coast will choose to use these ideas in Fourth Edition, maybe via a Dragon article or two?
Why would I add to it when it's more fun to elaborate on what's been hinted at in the past?
An excellent point ... things that have passed create new ideas for the future... creates new campaigns and new information and new fun ... an excellent point indeed!
...However, one of the things I like most about Eberron is that it doesn’t make any attempts to mirror real world cultures...
Sorry, I have a very geographical mind, and although the races might not add up, Sarlona is an upside down south America, Argonessen is deformed north america, Khorviare is a disconnected Europe, and the bottom of xendrik resembles antartica.
Hahaha.
I win.
Sorry, I have a very geographical mind, and although the races might not add up, Sarlona is an upside down south America, Argonessen is deformed north america, Khorviare is a disconnected Europe, and the bottom of xendrik resembles antartica.
Hahaha.
I win.
ummm .... sorry but I don't see it. Khorvaire as Europe? ok ... sorta buy that ... but Xen'Drik is more like South America & Africa. Aernel seems to be very Central America & India. Sarlona screams MIddle East and Eastern Asia to me. Argonessen could be north america, I suppose, before the Europeans arrived ... but hey ... that is just my 2 cents worth ... what does everyone else say?
Do you think there's a chance that Wizards of the Coast will choose to use these ideas in Fourth Edition, maybe via a Dragon article or two?
I want the Planar articles first, but I second this.
An excellent point ... things that have passed create new ideas for the future... creates new campaigns and new information and new fun ... an excellent point indeed!
You just want me to get another thread going. Admit it, it's ok. I liked the bloodthirsty, murdering little buggers myself.
I would love to see Native Eberronian Tribes, just like Native Americans. They could pretty much fill every niche and environment on Khorvaire, drawing from the cultures and beliefs of real world tribes.
Wouldn't those be goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears and orcs? Just a thought...
Don't the halflings of Talista cover that more or less?
They cover it for the Halflings in Talenta, thats it. I'm talking more diverse tribes spread over the continent. Read all of what I wrote, and you will find they cover the less part.
Wouldn't those be goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears and orcs? Just a thought...
Yes, for those races only, although since the goblins have their own nation, eh, not so much what I was thinking. They are decently advanced also. I'm talking tribes of humans, elves, gnomes, dwarves, orcs and half-orcs, that are in every country on the continent. And when I say primitive, I mean teepees, lodges, nomads, etc.
The nomadic shifters of the Eldeen Reaches are a good example of the type of tribal lifestyle I'm thinking of.
Also, I don't figure the humans, orcs and half-orcs of the Shadow Marshes to be tribal, considering how they have stilted cities and full fledged mining operations.
They could pretty much fill every niche and environment on Khorvaire, drawing from the cultures and beliefs of real world tribes.
Personally, "real world" is the last thing I'd want to see. One of the things I most appreciate about Eberron is that its cultures AREN'T just mirrors of our world. There are aspects of real world cultures that can be tied to things, sure; Dhakaan is part Rome, part Japan; Aerenal mixes a little Aztec and Egyptian; etc, etc. But nothing is simply "Culture X with orcs instead of humans", and I hope they don't change that now.
I could most clearly see them in the Eldeen Reaches, the Shadow Marshes and the Talenta Plains. They would speak their own dialects of Common, and have very rudimentary weapons and armor, unless trading with more "high society" people. Tribes could consist of different races depending on where they are located. Orc, half-orc and human tribes in the Shadow Marshes, human and elf(could make them wild elves) in the Eldeen Reaches, and human, elf and of course halfling tribes on the Talenta Plains.
I have to agree with others... As far as I know, what you're looking for is already there. The Talenta Plains has the clearly established tribal society. But the orcs (who along with goblins, gnomes, halflings, and orcs are "Native Khorvairians") also have tribal societies spread across Khorvaire. Page 198 of the ECS talks about the orc tribes in the Shadow Marches; page 159 talks about the tribal Ghaash'kala orcs of the Demon Wastes (along with the Carrion Tribes, but many of these are descended from human immigrants as opposed to native cultures); and page 193 mentions the Jhorash'tar orcs of the Mror Holds. Page 171 talks about the tribal shifters in the Eldeen Reaches, and of course the druidic societies themselves are tribal in nature. And heck, over in Q'barra, you have the Cold Sun tribes and Poison Dusk lizardfolk - more tribal native Khorvairians.
One issue is that you talk about human and elf tribes, but neither human nor elf were native to Khorvaire, and for the most part they were highly civilized by the time they came to Khorvaire; they play the role of the invading Europeans, not the aboriginal people. You get exceptions in the Demon Wastes (where the "settlers" were war refugees and the hostility of the land reduced them to savagery) and the Shadow Marches - but even in the Shadow Marches, the clans formed by the alliance of the newly-arrived humans and the tribal orcs are less tribal and primitive than the pure orc cultures that remain, and it's these blended clans that produced House Tharashk.
So native Khorvairian tribal cultures do exist - the orcs of the west and east, the lizardfolk of the east, the halflings of the plains, the shifters of the Reaches, etc. There's just not many human tribal cultures.
Yes, for those races only, although since the goblins have their own nation
As do all the races you've mentioned wanting to be Native Eberronian types.
And when I say primitive, I mean teepees, lodges, nomads, etc.
The nomadic shifters of the Eldeen Reaches are a good example of the type of tribal lifestyle I'm thinking of.
Also, I don't figure the humans, orcs and half-orcs of the Shadow Marshes to be tribal, considering how they have stilted cities and full fledged mining operations.
Well, actually, the human, orcs and half-orcs of the Shadow Marches are mostly nomadic tribes. The cities and mines are exceptions to that, not the rule. The rule in the SM is nomadic tribes, some of them more noble than others and some of them brutal and savage. Some worship something akin to the Dragon Below, some are more druidic, some are more shamanistic, etc.
It should be noted that there is good reason for the Five Nations proper (i.e. Karrnath, Breland, Aundair and Thrane) to have no "Natives" since those "Natives" were goblinoid (and a few orc) tribes that had completely lost their ancient civilization and were now quite primitive, and the humans wiped them out completely in the Five Nations proper. Only at the outskirts did any survive, and in Zilargo there are both goblinoid and kobold tribes like how you describe, in Droaam there is all manner of races that have tribes, the Shadow Marches, the Talenta nomads and the Eldeen are crawling with a bunch of different tribal cultures, Q'Barra has Lizardmen that fit that mold, and of course the Demon Wastes have the Carrion Tribes and the Ghaash'khala.
So basically, the setting already has a lot of what you're talking about. But remember, the "Natives" don't actually include humans. Humans are all from a different continent. The native races are gnomes, goblinoids, halflings, orcs and kobolds. Even ogres are actually originally from Sarlona.
Well, actually, the human, orcs and half-orcs of the Shadow Marches are mostly nomadic tribes.
I'd challenge this. Page 198 of the ECS says "Clan life is less primitive than that of the tribes; the clans build large halls and work with iron and steel." The later section mentions that their communities are usually hamlets and thorps as opposed to big cities, but I don't think they're mostly nomadic. Page 119 of the PGtE also talks about Marcher villages. However, both address the CLANS - the blended orc/human/half-orc societies - while noting that the purely orcish tribes are more primitive.
So I agree, the primitive tribes are there - but there are stationary villages as well (even if the big stilt cities are definitely the exceptions as opposed to the rule).
I should note that I'm all for seeing more depth on any of the groups described. I'd love to see more information about the shifter tribes of the Eldeen or the lizardfolk tribes of Q'barra. But they are at least called out as existing in the current material, so the concept isn't entirely absent in the setting.
I'd challenge this. Page 198 of the ECS says "Clan life is less primitive than that of the tribes; the clans build large halls and work with iron and steel." The later section mentions that their communities are usually hamlets and thorps as opposed to big cities, but I don't think they're mostly nomadic. Page 119 of the PGtE also talks about Marcher villages. However, both address the CLANS - the blended orc/human/half-orc societies - while noting that the purely orcish tribes are more primitive.
So I agree, the primitive tribes are there - but there are stationary villages as well (even if the big stilt cities are definitely the exceptions as opposed to the rule).
I should note that I'm all for seeing more depth on any of the groups described. I'd love to see more information about the shifter tribes of the Eldeen or the lizardfolk tribes of Q'barra. But they are at least called out as existing in the current material, so the concept isn't entirely absent in the setting.
Oh, I'd always assumed the clans were less numerous than the tribes. Either way, the clans still build halls (the "lodges" BlackDragon was looking for) while the tribes have the nomadic he was looking for. It's just interesting that the regions he called out as needing some "Native" flair are all regions well known for that in the ECS and PGtE already. I have a feeling he's looking for more of a human native vibe, which exists primarily in the Tashana Tundra in Sarlona (although overshadowed by the Shifters there somewhat).
Edit: And the Serens, durh. How could I forget them!
Oh, I'd always assumed the clans were less numerous than the tribes.
Perfectly fair. Skimming the material, I don't see a really clear statement one way or the other. I wouldn't say the Marchers are mostly settled, I just wouldn't say that they're mostly nomadic either; to me, it's always seemed like a fair balance. The ECS descriptions states "Today humans and orcs live alongside each other, in savage tribes and civilized communities" - and I've always given it that roughly equal weight.
However, a) this is obviously so vague as to be completely open to reader interpretation; and b) however you look at it, it's certainly the case that "savage tribes" are supposed to have a strong presence in the nation.
Perfectly fair. Skimming the material, I don't see a really clear statement one way or the other. I wouldn't say the Marchers are mostly settled, I just wouldn't say that they're mostly nomadic either; to me, it's always seemed like a fair balance. The ECS descriptions states "Today humans and orcs live alongside each other, in savage tribes and civilized communities" - and I've always given it that roughly equal weight.
However, a) this is obviously so vague as to be completely open to reader interpretation; and b) however you look at it, it's certainly the case that "savage tribes" are supposed to have a strong presence in the nation.
I'm probably more than a little influenced by the Dragon Below series. :D
You just want me to get another thread going. Admit it, it's ok. I liked the bloodthirsty, murdering little buggers myself.
Did I say that? ;) no. I never said that. I would be surprised if that was what I said.
Did I say that? ;) no. I never said that. I would be surprised if that was what I said.
I've been tempted to do it anyway. I just wonder if WotC would appreciate seeing another thousand post Dhakaani thread. I just wonder how to start all over again without someone getting all torqued off.
I've been tempted to do it anyway. I just wonder if WotC would appreciate seeing another thousand post Dhakaani thread. I just wonder how to start all over again without someone getting all torqued off.
I think you should just go for it - after all whats the point of a discussion board if you cant have 1000 post threads....:D
I've been tempted to do it anyway. I just wonder if WotC would appreciate seeing another thousand post Dhakaani thread. I just wonder how to start all over again without someone getting all torqued off.
If they want to get torqued off then let them ... shouldn't stop you from expressing your ideas.
anybody got a link to the 1000 post dhakaani thread?
I wish. It was before Gleemax, so it's gone. And since yours truly doesn't back-up his posts, the 600+ flavor text posts that tell a tale of epic proportion are lost in the electron ether. It's a shame too, I think I left about 300 or more openings in the storyline that a DM could use to fit in an adventuring party.
I wish. It was before Gleemax, so it's gone. And since yours truly doesn't back-up his posts, the 600+ flavor text posts that tell a tale of epic proportion are lost in the electron ether. It's a shame too, I think I left about 300 or more openings in the storyline that a DM could use to fit in an adventuring party.
I've found threads from 2004 on Google, archived. Look up the thread title on the domain gleemax.com and you might find it.
I wish. It was before Gleemax, so it's gone. And since yours truly doesn't back-up his posts, the 600+ flavor text posts that tell a tale of epic proportion are lost in the electron ether. It's a shame too, I think I left about 300 or more openings in the storyline that a DM could use to fit in an adventuring party.
'Twas a grand adventure of EPIC proportions that have now become as lost as the Empire that they once represented so well ....
... so .... :OMG! :lightbulb
Let's start it over
I've found threads from 2004 on Google, archived. Look up the thread title on the domain gleemax.com and you might find it.
Uh oh. I may have to find that and get a bit of that stuff revised and reposted.
'Twas a grand adventure of EPIC proportions that have now become as lost as the Empire that they once represented so well ....
It's actually pretty good that it died when it did. The whole thing was going to itself apart anyway. There were about 5 main characters that were going to survive and the rest were going to fail miserably. There was a reason I didn't use any of the officially published clans or tribes.