Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Cyber-Dave Jun 10, 2008 17:27:22	Ok, so, I was thinking about the warlocks place in Eberron. To me, at first, warlocks in Eberron seem like they must be evil destructive figures. I mean, the Star pact pretty much seems like a pact with the Dalkyre, the Infernal pact seems like it is a pact with demons of the dragon bellow, and the fey pact seems like it would be a pact with beings of thelanis. A warlock who makes pacts with beings from thelanis is easy enough to explain as a neutral, or good, character. But how does one explain a character who wishes to generally do good in the world, but makes pacts with the Dalkyre or the Demons of the Dragon Bellow in order to gain the power to do so? I suppose a Constantine style anti-hero is the most simple answer. I also thought that the Warlock would make sense as the most common Karrnathi form of magic. The reason I thought this is because Karrnath, during the last great war, had very little magic. They had to very quickly train mages on the field once they realized that they could not be effective as a war machine without magic might. The idea of making pacts to gain power quickly seems to very much be in the spirit of Karrnath and its history! Still, I would not mind some second opinions... Thanks all! (P.S. If your response is going to be something along the lines of: "see, this is why the new classes of 4e are a problem!", please don't bother responding at all. I much prefer 4e, and its new classes, to 3e. I'm just a little curious about how people envision this particular class in Eberron.)
#2 taski Jun 10, 2008 17:50:31	Back when the 3.5 Warlock came out, there was talk of using them, in a re-flavored form, as blasters for the Silver Flame. I can still see that working for infernal pact warlocks. For star pact warlocks, you could have them studying the ways of the Daelkyr to know better how to counter them. The problem, or the cool plot seed depending on how you look at it, is the warlock might slowly go nutty as he/she learned more and more about Xoriat and its nutty entities.
#3 infernal_scribe_dup Jun 10, 2008 19:06:23	from the Eberron wiki, they had this idea: Warlocks in Eberron are not as prevalent as other spellcasters, but life in a magic suffused society is sure to produce a fair share of those who learn to tap into these arcane powers. Some speak of a small population of gnomes from Zilargo who have learned to tap into the power of the planes rather than inner magical energies as a source for their power. This could be a variation of the same magic used to bind elementals that has spread to a new technique but these claims are as of yet unconfirmed. It is said that these gnomes typically tap into Shavarath the Battleground and their eldritch blasts carry with them the sound of whirling blades. and from Jhonen Olain's Eberron Journal, they also had this idea: Warlocks are spellcasters who draw power from the planes themselves. Just as psions draw upon the from the planes of Dal Quor or Xoriat, warlocks channel the raw energies of Thelanis, Kythri, or Shavarath. Their eldritch blasts and invocations channel the arcane strength of fiends and fey. There are several types of warlock in Eberron, though all are extremely rare. Some have a family heritage touched by outsiders or native fiends, others have made bargains with fiends or fey, and some were simply born during a planar coterminous period. A few have found that they can unlock a warlock's abilities by wounding themselves, then exposing themselves to a powerful manifest zone. Regardless of their origin, warlocks are distrusted by those who understand their nature. In particular, druids are concerned that warlock magic destabilizes the planes; certain Gatekeepers believe this problem should be addressed directly and violently.
#4 Hellcow Jun 10, 2008 19:15:17	Actually, this point is covered directly in the second paragraph of the warlock class description. The "Pact" doesn't necessarily represent a true Faustian bargain; it is simply identifying the source of your power. The first sentence of the class description says "Warlocks wield arcane might wrested from primeval entities" - not granted by them, but rather wrested from them. So you could easily say that your infernal warlock is actually simming off the power of a slumbering overlord, and in the process weakening the mighty demon... but will you be corrupted by your dark power? Meanwhile, let's take a look at the star warlock in my campaign. He's tied to an overlord of the age of demons (who can be just as Lovecraftian as the daelkyr). He was chosen by the overlord - it wasn't a bargain he made, it was thrust upon him. He believes that his actions will, eventually result in the release of the overlord. Why would he want this? He doesn't. But in his visions of the future, the overlords WILL rise - and the future he sees under the Vermillion Prince at least involves the survival of humanity, which isn't the case with some of the other overlords. He serves because he feels that he has no choice - the world is doomed, and he's doing the best for it he can. But I certainly see his epic destiny involving a way to defeat the plans of the Vermillion Prince and all of the other overlords - in the process losing his powers, but that's the eventually point of the epic destiny - finding the epic end of your tale. So you could be evil. But you could also have stolen your powers, tricked your infernal source out of the power, or had them thrust upon you. They could be a duty, or part of an ancient lineage you have turned against - youre bloodline has long been bound to demons, but you intend to use this inherited power to oppose them. The nature of the "pact" is up to you.
#5 Hellcow Jun 10, 2008 19:18:23	Oh, and I agree with the other things that have come before. I can certainly see an infernal or star warlock drawing power from the Mourning, and there are warlocks among the Children of Winter who draw on the power of the Gloaming. I've also tweaked things for flavor - for example, the warlock in my other campaign is a Lyrandar heir whose "infernal pact" is with the storm itself, with all fire powers and damage shifted to thunder or lightning.
#6 Cyber-Dave Jun 10, 2008 21:29:49	Awesome. Thanks for all the ideas!
#7 joboo Jun 11, 2008 0:34:02	Sounds good. Perhaps I could tweak the necromantic properties for an Arenal Elf Warlock and change it to radiance.
#8 kelvinaw273 Jun 11, 2008 6:41:17	Back when the 3.5 Warlock came out, there was talk of using them, in a re-flavored form, as blasters for the Silver Flame. I can still see that working for infernal pact warlocks. For star pact warlocks, you could have them studying the ways of the Daelkyr to know better how to counter them. The problem, or the cool plot seed depending on how you look at it, is the warlock might slowly go nutty as he/she learned more and more about Xoriat and its nutty entities. It's covered in the Player's Guide to Eberron as well for the 3.5 Warlock, and such warlocks have no alignment restriction. I think it could as easily apply to the 4.0 warlock as the 3.5 one ...
#9 herogoeth Jun 12, 2008 10:02:19	A really neat, fun character concept a player used in one of my campaigns was a blind warforged warlock named Brail. His Creation Forge was spinning up when the Mourning struck, and the process of his creation was completed just as the mists reached the town where his Creation Forge was located. The magic of the forge was warped, altering him, stripping his normal vision from him, and instead granting him strange supernatural sight, using one of the warlock powers to see. He stepped out of the forge with no knowlege of what he had been made for, but was able to call upon warlock powers themed around the gray mist.
#10 kelvinaw273 Jun 12, 2008 11:22:04	A really neat, fun character concept a player used in one of my campaigns was a blind warforged warlock named Brail. His Creation Forge was spinning up when the Mourning struck, and the process of his creation was completed just as the mists reached the town where his Creation Forge was located. The magic of the forge was warped, altering him, stripping his normal vision from him, and instead granting him strange supernatural sight, using one of the warlock powers to see. He stepped out of the forge with no knowlege of what he had been made for, but was able to call upon warlock powers themed around the gray mist. Tasty!
#11 tiwaztyrsfist Jun 12, 2008 17:52:14	I've always liked the concept (from somewhere in the 3.5 warlock description) that the character isn't necessarily the one who made the pact. I.E. An ancestor made a pact with a dark power, which the character has inherited. He gains the dark power, but also lives with the knowledge of the eventual cost over his head. Born to power, with his soul already forfit as the price. Unless he can find a way to break the contract...
#12 Marcus_Majarra Jun 12, 2008 21:48:29	star warlock drawing power from the Mourning I had this idea ever since I first read up the class in the PHB. A foolish, yet well intentioned Cyran graduate of Morgrave University bent on understanding and mastering the energies of the Mournland, in the hopes of finding some means of undoing the cataclysm that afflicted his nation of birth.
#13 Omen_of_Peace Jun 13, 2008 2:18:22	I'm going to play a Star Pact Warlock in Eberron, so here is the direction I'm taking. When I saw "star", my first thought was "Siberys !". I took it from there : the Star Pact includes quite a few powers that let you manipulate fate (by forcing rerolls). In Eberron, this ties very naturally into the Draconic Prophecy. And this works for the powers that seem to create fear/madness in their targets : imagine being faced with even a tiny evoked portion of the prophecy... It would blow your mind off. If there was a 4E Draconic Prophesier feat (maybe someone made a homebrew one ?) I'd be tempted to get it for my character. I don't even especially plan to explain where she gets her powers from: she probably doesn't know herself. Or I could give her an Aberrant Dragonmark...
#14 douglas_zuver_dup Jun 13, 2008 13:05:48	Nicely said!! There are “Starlight Sprites” in my game that are powerful and good. The name itself implies Star or Fey origins of one sort or another. Just reading thru the 4E PHB page 130 which I will not quote, one sees that the Fey Pact descriptions cover a full range of good and bad elements hence one can easily conclude that not all Warlocks are drawing from evil power sources. Reading thru the Star Pact descriptions, “mastered the astrologer’s art” gives more of an arcane magical Scholar point of view that could go many directions. No mention of good or bad is given here. Reading thru the Infernal Pact descriptions, one is given the notion that these powers is tied to devils and the Tieflings of old in some way. The mention of rebellion to Asmodeus gives rise to make one question exactly which side of the good vs. evil line these powers actually are.
#15 Cyber-Dave Jun 25, 2008 1:46:30	So, I just thought I would add something to this thread. I am about to start running a 4e Eberron game for my girlfriend (and hopefully a few friends). She will be playing a talanta halfling "shaman" using a fey warlock. Pretty much a priestess of the hunt who makes pacts and deals with different animal and nature spirits. She may or may not multi-class into ranger (with the Warrior of the Wild and Utility Swap feats...), depending on a number of different factors. She will probably take skill training nature and stealth one way or another, however.
#16 nymrohd Jun 25, 2008 2:21:58	What I like about warlocks is that they are very modular if you want to be a bit creative. You can create entire new pacts without much fuss. I mean each pacts needs 1 or at most 2 powers of each level. That means that if you get about 25 powers you are set. You could literally create pacts with any supernatural manifestation of power.
#17 That_Blasted_Somoflange Jun 25, 2008 10:10:07	I think warlocks could work rather well if you simply change the names of the pacts: Star becomes Siberys - Which focuses on powers of the prophecy Infernal becomes Khyber - Which focuses on the powers of the beings trapped within Fey becomes Eberron - Focusing powers of the natural surface world Simple re-flavouring and voila! Warlocks are a perfect fit to Eberron.
#18 mystrich Jun 26, 2008 0:12:09	I'd say the pacts don't really have to be one thing, especially not as the PHB (think of how classes like cleric have different flavor in Eberron). A worshipper of Syberis as said above, or a studier of Astrology as described in the PHB could both give a Star Pact. A worshipper of the Dragon Below or someone born in a Manifest Zone to Thelanis could be a Fey Pact.
#19 DragonReader Jun 26, 2008 9:45:56	James Wyatt's new novel Dragon Forge features a warlock character and might provide some ideas for interested DMs/Players.
#20 enhenry Jun 26, 2008 19:45:29	But in his visions of the future, the overlords WILL rise - and the future he sees under the Vermillion Prince at least involves the survival of humanity, The "Vermillion Prince?" You magnificient rat bastardly DM! What was his name, Prince Ruhast? ;) The Tiefling Warlock in our new Eberron campaign isn't even a Tiefling -- he's formerly a human who made an actual pact with a power of Fernia, and the corruption not only gave him power, but brought the demonic heritage down on his head, literally, to the tune of fangs and horns. I plan to make the most of that background.
#21 PJammaGod Jun 28, 2008 2:12:15	I've got two warlocks in my party so far (seems to be the fashionable black of classes right now :P ). One is a dragonborn explorer from Argonessen, seeking out as much knowledge and information as he can. He also shares his races proverbial beef with the fiends. Right now he's using the Star pact and hoping for a draconic pact (or equivalent) to be in the Draconomicon when it's released. It's flavoured the he's channeling the celestial power of the dragon gods (as they exist as constellations in the sky). The other warlock is an entirely different story. He's a tiefling, though not by birth. A survivor from the edges of the Mourning, Akmenos is a former soldier of Cyre who watched his whole family get obliterated on that fateful day. He awoke sometime later "touched" by that disaster. Now he's got horns, an attidue and a desire for revenge. Akemno's pact is the fiendish one and it's flavoured that he quite literally channels some latent connection between himslef and the Mourning (he goes all glassy eyed whenever he travels near the borders, he can feel the Mournland calling to him, wanting to draw him in). It gives the other adventurers in the group the heebie-jeebies, but they can't deny his power. So yeah, one warlock by choice, the other by happenstance. It leads to interesting discussions between the two...