Was there ever a story-established reason?
But no setting wise its never been established. Some of the Eberron material seems to indicate that the giants were one uniform race of Titans before their fall and the current varieties are just different cursed degenerates. This is contested by other information that indicates during the height of the giant empire there were indeed many different types of giants, indeed the Giant Empire was more like a league of smaller kingdoms that were largely racially divided.
Most of this information is prefaced with 'legend says' or 'it is believed'.
So it could be that the Giants were one race until the war with the dragons and the fall, just as the very land of Xen'drik has been cursed and twisted, putting glaciers in the middle of tropical rainforests so did it warp the giants.
On the other hand perhaps the Giants were once one unified race and after the dragon lords of Argonessen taught them magic they experimented and through magical genetic engineering created their various subraces... so that by the time of the Quori invasion, elven uprisings, and dragon war they were very diverse creatures.
Or maybe they were never one race, maybe they really were wrought from the very elements of Eberron and have always been different, one culture many races.
Up to the DM.
That's at least one split before the invasion, so it's possible there were more.
I'd go with whichever fits your story best... I like the little from column A little from Column B approch. Whether the One Race myth is true or not, by the time of the Quori war the giants had diverged into many different races... still some further devolved after the fall. Death Giants in particular I see as a result of the terrible unholy blood rites the giants brought to bare against the Quori that were spoken of in Dragons of Eberron.
In any case always throw in a know it all scholar that'll refute whatever evidence your party comes across. "Clearly that weapon you have is a forgery, there were no Frost Giants before the fall." "But in addition to the weapon we brought back this stone tablet clearly showing that frost giants inhabited the lost city of Gul'raz 5,000 years before the Quori War." "Its a hoax, its a shame you fell for it."
Transgiantism instead of transhumanism.
Cheers, LT.
Which must give us pause when we consider Zilargo's recent rediscovery of elemental grafting, hrmmmmmmmm?
Elemental Grafting? Huh? Where's that from?
I believe it's in Magic of Eberron. Basically you bind the element to you instead of your armor or weapon. And there is even a PrC.
Aaah, thanks. I'll be ignoring that unless its in a 4e book
Aaah, thanks. I'll be ignoring that unless its in a 4e book
Just out of curiosity... why?
Just out of curiosity... why?
Because I'm not buying the Magic of Faerun book. What do people normally do when they don't buy a source book? ;)
Because I'm not buying the Magic of Faerun book.
Well, I wouldn't be buying Magic of Faerun for my Eberron game either. :P
Actually I would, that book has some good stuff in it, but thats not the point.
Anywho, in my game, I have the giant race fracturing at the same time their homeland fractured. I mean, if the magic was enough to break the very laws of nature to twist Xen'Drik into a land where a desert can be mere feet from an arctic tundra, then what do you think it did to the people that were living there at the time?
Because I'm not buying the Magic of Faerun book. What do people normally do when they don't buy a source book? ;)
Think you misread buddy, elemental grafting is in Magic of Eberron. Granted its just about the most mechanically heavy of the 3.5 Eberron books but it still has a lot of good information in it.
Think you misread buddy, elemental grafting is in Magic of Eberron. Granted its just about the most mechanically heavy of the 3.5 Eberron books but it still has a lot of good information in it.
Yeah I meant I won't be buying Magic of Eberron ;)
I don't meant to be rude, but that was an incredibly frustrating reaction to see you come out with after being told about an aspect of the setting that clearly intrigued you enough to ask about it. I'd hate to rain on your parade, but if you want to learn about Eberron in-depth, your best chance to do so is to purchase the 3.5 books, because there is absolutely no guarantee that Eberron will get an in-depth treatment beyond the Campaign Setting and Player's Guide that are scheduled for next year.
People will say, "well, ifit sells well, then they'll surely publish more," but I say, "what if it doesn't?" We're looking at the very real possibility of a world recession and shortages of basic goods; chances are that by next year, a lot of us won't have the extra money lying around to buy those shiny new 4e campaign books.
Anyhow, good luck with your game. I'm going to go be mildly depressed now...
If you've decided that you're not going to acknowledge anything Eberron-related unless it is 4e, then what was the point of asking in the first place?!
My initial question was about the giants. Had there been 3.5 canon I would have used that. Someone made an off-hand comment about elemental grafting, I hadn't heard of it so I asked where it was from, got told and I've decided not to use it.
Elemental Grafting wasn't part of Eberron before October, 2005 and chances are it isn't going to be a part of Eberron 4e. Given that it sounds like its primarily a coded aspect of Eberron (using some elemental stuff for armor) that would need to be homebrewed to work in 4e, I'm going to be just ignoring it completely and playing Eberron as if Magic of Eberron didn't exist at all.
I don't meant to be rude, but that was an incredibly frustrating reaction to see you come out with after being told about an aspect of the setting that clearly intrigued you enough to ask about it.
I was mainly interested about the giants and just got a 2 line explanation of Elemental Grafting. Sorry if that frustrates you, but I think its okay to not use 2 lines of something that's only tangentially related to a whole thread ;)
I'd hate to rain on your parade, but if you want to learn about Eberron in-depth, your best chance to do so is to purchase the 3.5 books, because there is absolutely no guarantee that Eberron will get an in-depth treatment beyond the Campaign Setting and Player's Guide that are scheduled for next year.
In the upcoming months I definitely plan to buy some 3.5e books. At this stage I'll be buying:
* Secrets of Xendrik and/or City of Stormreach (it depends which book has the better fluff for Xendrik as a whole. I'm guessing it will be Secrets of Xendrik but I figure I'll ask just to make sure before the books comes out).
* Forge of War
* Faiths of Eberron (IF this has enough fluff in comparison to the crunch, which I'm thinking it does).
* Sharn: City of Towers
I'm going to go be mildly depressed now...
All because I'm not buying Magic of Eberron?
Elemental Grafting wasn't part of Eberron before October, 2005 and chances are it isn't going to be a part of Eberron 4e. Given that it sounds like its primarily a coded aspect of Eberron (using some elemental stuff for armor) that would need to be homebrewed to work in 4e, I'm going to be just ignoring it completely and playing Eberron as if Magic of Eberron didn't exist at all.
Um, elemental binding is hardly a small part of Eberron, it makes the world. The gnomes of Zilargo are masters, but not nerely as good as the Drow who use even superior techniques. They learned it from the Giants, who would have probably learned it from the Dragons. Eberron's Airships, Lightening Rails, and other transportation all use it, meaning it's a huge part of several Dragonmarked Houses income.
All because I'm not buying Magic of Eberron?
I think he means the fact that it sounded like you were basically saying, "It's not 4e, so you can't use it." And while you explained your opinion, there are probably people who have thrown out, or just sold every 3.x book they own because they refuse to use it anymore.
Um, elemental binding is hardly a small part of Eberron, it makes the world. The gnomes of Zilargo are masters, but not nerely as good as the Drow who use even superior techniques. They learned it from the Giants, who would have probably learned it from the Dragons. Eberron's Airships, Lightening Rails, and other transportation all use it, meaning it's a huge part of several Dragonmarked Houses income.
Aaah, I thought it was just some fancy type of armor. Well yes, then airships, lightning rails and other uses of it will be in my game then (those are what attracted me to 4e!). But I wouldn't expect any fancy 3.5e armor in my 4e game unless it appears in a 4e book.
there are probably people who have thrown out, or just sold every 3.x book they own because they refuse to use it anymore.
That seems crazy to me. There's plenty of good fluff in those books. But even if you didn't want any of it, considering 4e has been out for less then a month, isn't it a bit premature to abandon the old edition whole heartedly?
I'm going to be just ignoring it completely and playing Eberron as if Magic of Eberron didn't exist at all.
Thats a shame, some of the best feats an Artificer can pick up are in MoE. Improved Homunculus alone is worth it, IMO.
It's one of those things that's unlikely to be more firmly established than this. After all, it's Xen'drik, and Xen'drik is a land of mysteries.
And while you might worry about Zilargo and elemental binding, if you accept the legend that the Sulat League created drow from elves, I'd worry more about what the magebreeders of House Vadalis might come up with if they could recover Sulat lore...
And while you might worry about Zilargo and elemental binding, if you accept the legend that the Sulat League created drow from elves, I'd worry more about what the magebreeders of House Vadalis might come up with if they could recover Sulat lore...
Just when you think that there's a group in Eberron that might not be up to something worth some adventures...
Seriously, I'm really getting frustrated with this setting. It's like going into a restaurant and the menu is a 300 pages book, and you want all the dishes.
It's one of those things that's unlikely to be more firmly established than this. After all, it's Xen'drik, and Xen'drik is a land of mysteries.
Thanks
Just when you think that there's a group in Eberron that might not be up to something worth some adventures...
Seriously, I'm really getting frustrated with this setting. It's like going into a restaurant and the menu is a 300 pages book, and you want all the dishes.
Okay that's quote of the day for me, and I'll second the notion. There is sometimes almost too much to play with in Eberron.
Segue's aside, how the Giants work really depends on how you view the original giants. Personally back in 3.5 (that feels so wierd to type) I saw the lesser giants (i.e. everyone in the various monster manuals) as like different ethnic/class/cultural groups, all giants but skilled/focussing on different lifestyles and working archetypes. For example fire giants, heck who needs a leather apron when working the forge, fire worry me wot? Stone Giants, you've got yourself the Chrysler Building (seriously, go check out the Lost City in Secrets of Xen'Drik). Sea Giants, fisherman without peer. And Ice Giants, yes you devote an entire species/subspecies to the preservation of beer, who wouldn't?
The only Giants I never have
(overtly) appear were the Titans. They're more scarce then mentions of Dragons in the ECS book (there's 3 last time I checked, happy hunting). I took a somewhat novel take on them, making Titans the original children of Eberron. Couatl are the pure children of Siberys (where the blood fell and coalseced), demons the children of Khyber (bubbling up from below) and Dragons the mixed blood of Siberys and Eberron. But what about where Eberron's pure blood pooled and then I realised my niche for the Titans. Native outsides, very powerful, highly emotional and fixed on the physical and experience, it made sense to me. These were the giants that truly rose up to the pinnacle of power and taught all their lesser kin.Interestingly I look on the giants in a more favourable light in my campaign. The Dragon stories mentioning them educating the giants are more of a carefully constructed campaign to smere the giants and history, since history is written by the victors. The Titans taught the lesser giants what they thought was enough for them. It was the Dragons however that meddled and taught the lesser giants all the other powerful magic and knowledge left out by the Titans, knowledge that the Titans could foresee would be perverted by their power hungry and overly ambitious brethren.
So now 80,000 years on the giants are shadows of their former selves, clinging desperately to the ruins of Xen'Drik. But the Titans live on, having gone into hiding during the heights of the depredations of their lesser kin. But they still operate in the shadows, even more elusive than the Chamber. This group of Titans, the only surviving Titans, is known as the Citadel and they fight a shadow war with the Dragons, even though the mortal dragons don't quite realise it...
Only one thing: Dragons are the pure childs of Siberys, not Couatls. Couatls are a mix between Siberys and Eberron.