Many here on the boards will bet that the Aereni elves kept the magical traditions of their former giant masters, magical traditions that brought to the giants the wrath of the dragons, destroyed their empire and devastated the land of Xen'drik. Moreover, the Aereni share some knowledge of the lost Qabalrin elf tribe, which were versed in powerful necromancy (SoX). Combining their origin with the many manifest zones to Irian and Mabar on Aerenal, the Aereni developped a society revolving around the deathless of the Undying Court, a very powerful groups since the group itself is considered to have divine ranks. (If you look closely at the history flowchart in ECS, notice how the apparition of the Undying Court is written just before the first skirmishes of war between the dragons and the elves.)
So scared that the Aereni might mimic the giants, the dragon started war against them, but they've been repulsed by the force of the Undying Court. Note that the wars always took place on Aerenal, since the Undying Court looses their power out of Irian's manifest zones.
During the war, dragons discovered another reason to battle the Aereni. An elven bloodline was mixed with dragonblood. The offspring of the Emerald Claw and Minara d'Vol, a half-green dragon elf girl named Erandis d'Vol carried the Mark of Death and she was the source of some very powerful and unnatural powers. Even the Aereni were scared of her and it made both side team up to exterminate the line of Vol. Erandis becomes the lich we all know.
Of course, all this is not canon, so it really is up to the DM, which means anything goes. What I've just describe is only what seems written between the lines of the Eberron books.
Maybe the true reason is because the Aereni tried to settle a colony on Argonnessen, and they established themselves in a ruined dragon city that dates back to the Age of Demons. Maybe those ruins have a good reason to stay deserted. And maybe the elves discovered something they shouldn't have. Maybe they succeeded in bringing that back to Aerenal and the War started like that.
Rekko
Maybe the true reason is because the Aereni tried to settle a colony on Argonnessen, and they established themselves in a ruined dragon city that dates back to the Age of Demons. Maybe those ruins have a good reason to stay deserted. And maybe the elves discovered something they shouldn't have. Maybe they succeeded in bringing that back to Aerenal and the War started like that.
Maybe they unknowingly fulfilled part of the Draconic Prophecy and so the dragons are now reacting as they believe the prophecy says they should
Thanks for the post. It's great to see what could be an answer, as well as knowing there isn't a definitive one.
Maybe the Undying Court with all the time they have in front of them decided to read the Draconic Prophecy as well. And the Dragons fear of another interpretation.
I was under the impression that war started (in addition to all the other things Rekko mentioned) was because as the Undying Court grew it started to contain members who existed for long enough to start to understand and study the Prophecy in the same detail as the dragons and that either the dragons resented that some upstarts from the leser races were treading on ground that until now had been the sole province of dragons OR that the Undying Court had found something in the prophecy that they wanted to enact/stop that the Dragons vehemently disagreed with. Either way it was to do with the elves begining to study the prophecy in depth. Hope that helps.
Same here. I remember reading about this somewhere, in which Aeren the great visionary who led the elves to freedom left a book with prophecies and such. Something similar along these lines. In any case, I recall reading that Aerenal and the Dragons have opposing interpretations in regard to the Prophecy. And this is what started the animosity.
the dragons resented that some upstarts from the leser races were treading on ground that until now had been the sole province of dragons
But then wouldn't the dragons have done more about the Dragonmarked races, since this seems to have been sole dragon province as well?
Anyway, I like these explanations a lot. As both a Realms and an Eberron fan, I like the fact that a lot of Eberron stuff is left blank and up to the DM.
It is likely the Dragons could wipe Aerenal off the map... but they really have no reason to, besides its their favorite punching bag.
There's also the theory that the war is a cover for some joint venture between the dragons and the Aereni, though I think there's enough evidence in the setting to make it clear that they are fighting in earnest. Specifically, there's that tree that only grows in Argonnessen that, once fasioned into a weapon, bypasses deathless DR...
My belief behind why they still fight is because The Prophecy isn't set in any kind of stone... its a means to an end with not set design to that end... it can be shaped to the will of anyone who can understand it... and when two very different groups are reading The Prophecy and have the foresight to predict and manipulate... then you start to have a problem.
And it should be noted that no were does it say that the Wars between the Dragons and Aerenal have been unanimous.. so its could be different groups who attack at different times... Kieth has even use this lack of unanimous chose to attack against the elves as a reason why the even stand a chance. If every Dragon wanted to join together i have no doubt they would destroy Aerenal from the history books let alone the world.
Whatever the case Argonessen could wipe Aerenal off the map... but they haven't.
I was under the impression the dragons fought the elves mainly because the elves are strong practitioners of necromancy, which is pretty much the field of magic dragons frown upon, generally speaking. It could be seen as a perversion of the art they taught the giants, and they might be seeking to keep the elves in check and prevent another catastrophe such as the one brought upon the world by the giants' mastery of magic.
Where does it say that the dragons frown upon necromancy?
Where does it say that the dragons frown upon necromancy?
Pages 11, 48, 56, 58, and 82 of Dragons of Eberron (probably elsewhere, that's just what I caught skimming). Page 11 specifically discusses the possible reasons behind the elf-dragon wars. If you're looking for canon material about dragons, it's a surprisingly good place to start. ;)
Yes, it talks about the fact that the Aereni are talented necromancers, and the Undying Court probably messing up with the Prophecy. However, it clearly states that this might not be the true reason behind the Dragon-Elf wars. Moreoever, it also said that it was only a few flights that attacked the elves, and I personally believe that the major portion of the Dragons of Argonnessen don't really mind not being the only ones reading the Prophecy, they are enough confident in their infrastructure and control over the world to not unite against the Aereni. Tough they might deep within themselves don't mind either that somefew are trying to stop others from reading the Prophecy.
However, it also talks about the fact that it's positive energy necromancy and that might bring some dragons to defend the elves.
It also says that the it might be a testing ground for both the dragons and/or the elves, as in challenging and training themselves for a greater threat.
At the beginning of the paragraph, it clearly says, that it is still a mystery.
So, Mystrich, you can have a go at this book, it doesn't give away one of the secret mysteries of the setting.
And like I said, maybe it's completely something else as in they tried to establish a colony in a Demon-ruined city and brought something back to Aerenal they shouldn't have touched.
Maybe the Dragons already reclaimed the said thing, but discovered a rare ressource on Aerenal (Aerenal does have a lot of rare ressources) and with each small war they refill their stock for a few decades. That would be so funny... if it were the true answer.
Maybe dragons that are able to polymorph are using the small wars to infiltrate Aerenal taking the place of fallen elf warriors to better spy on the first of the lesser races that can read the Prophecy and try to alter their decisions with the dragons' interest in mind. I like that last one.
Rekko
Ah, never bought that. Considering it was one of the topics that was promised never to be a book, I figured I'd 'boycott' it. You buy every book about everything, and soon, we'll have a canon cause for the Mournland.
I hope you don't mind if I buy the book ;) Although I've now decided on the reasoning behind the war (thanks everyone for your suggestions) and my personal canon takes precedence over new sources (so if Keith released a Dragon article tomorrow that explains the reason behind the war, I would ignore it).
Considering it was one of the topics that was promised never to be a book...
When did we ever say that, Mystrich? And who said it? We've said we'd never give a canon reason for the Mourning. That we'd never stat out the Mark of Death. That we'd make sure to leave Xen'drik as a place where a DM could put whatever he wanted. But I don't remember ever saying that we wouldn't talk about dragons. On the contrary, given that the dragons of Eberron are different from those of many other settings - actually having a civilization, manipulating the world from behind the scenes, and such - I think it's a good topic for a book, because there's so much to cover.
With that said, Rekko is correct that the book does NOT give the cause of the Elf-Dragon wars; however, it presents a number of possibilities. The goal is to provide inspiration for those who need it, not to take choice away from those who don't.
I own Dragons of Eberron, and I think Smug didn't read it right... At the beginning of the paragraph, it clearly says, that it is still a mystery.
I wasn't talking about the cause of the war, Rekko. The book clearly states that it's a mystery (note that I said page 11 discusses the POSSIBLE causes of the war). I was responding to Mystrich's question "Where does it say that the dragons frown upon necromancy?" Page 11 presents it as a theory. Page 48 mentions "the forbidden arts of necromancy." Page 56 says "The practice of necromancy is forbidden among the dragons of Argonnessen", and this is further discussed on page 58. Obviously there are dragons who don't share this belief - as discussed on page 56 - but it's there.
JohnLynch, will you share your decisions with the rest of us? If you have players, you can put your info in a sblock.
Aside from what has already been mentioned, what other solution could we suggest as the cause behind the Dragon-Elf wars?
Rekko
After the Quori was some dragon saw that the giants were weak, but for one reason or another knew it couldn't get to the artifact... but maybe one of the giant's own slave's could. This dragon went to some elves, and wispered in their ears promises of freedom, that the dragons would help free the elves from their bondage... if only one of them were to go fetch this artifact.
So one of them did, this artifact contained within it a terrible and ancient power, necromantic in origin, the elf saw the power it contained and knew that he didn't need the dragons to free his people... with this... he could.
History goes on as mainly recollected, the elves revolted, the giants in their desperation tried to invoke the magic they used against the Quori and the dragons were moved to stop and crush them... and the elves... with the artifact... escaped. It remains in their possession still.
Few amongst dragonkind know of it, they use the ruse of 'keeping themselves sharp' to make attempts to get it back from the elves.
Rekko
JohnLynch, will you share your decisions with the rest of us? If you have players, you can put your info in a sblock.
Aside from what has already been mentioned, what other solution could we suggest as the cause behind the Dragon-Elf wars?
Alright, but if your a player of mine, PLEASE don't read the spoiler as it will ruin future campaigns.
Show
It ties in with what minoritarian said. I liked the idea that the reason for the war is connected with the Draconic Prophecy, so I came up with this:
In a cave on Aerenal there is part of the prophecy. It went undiscovered until the elves moved there and started building their cities and was eventually deciphered by the Undying Court. It basically says that if the dragons aren't wiped out, then all of Eberron will be destroyed. There's some indicators on when the world will be destroyed (along the lines of "the end times approach when X, Y and Z happen"), and offers some guidelines on how to destroy the dragons (really vague stuff, but enough to point someone in the right direction).
The dragons learned of this, and it immediately shook their society up. How to react is largely undecided, although some believe that:
* the dragons should wipe themselves out in order to save the world.
* the passages need to be reinterpreted as the current interpretation is untrue.
* the passage is incomplete and that there exists other passages which explain how the dragons can exist while the world doesn't get destroyed.
* they should investigate ways to survive the destruction of Eberron.
They also fear the Aerenal elves who now know that if the dragons aren't destroyed, everyone will be. So the dragons periodically attack the elves to remind them of how powerful the dragons are and how they could be wiped out by the dragons at any time. They also do it to help stunt the growth of their power. The reason the dragons don't wipe the elves out completely, is the fear if they do, some will escape and manage to fulfill the prophecy and destroy the dragons.
The elves for their part know that if they made any big moves to fulfill the prophecy (and no-one even knows what the exact steps are), the dragons will wipe them out. So they're content to wait for now.
This also has the side-effect that the reason the dragons were horrified by the appearance of dragonmarks, is they see it as a sign that the prophecy is changing to include a world where dragons don't exist, instead moving the prophecy towards the lesser races.
In a cave on Aerenal there is part of the prophecy. It went undiscovered until the elves moved there and started building their cities and was eventually deciphered by the Undying Court. It basically says that if the dragons aren't wiped out, then all of Eberron will be destroyed. There's some indicators on when the world will be destroyed (along the lines of "the end times approach when X, Y and Z happen"), and offers some guidelines on how to destroy the dragons (really vague stuff, but enough to point someone in the right direction).
The dragons learned of this, and it immediately shook their society up. How to react is largely undecided, although some believe that:
* the dragons should wipe themselves out in order to save the world.
* the passages need to be reinterpreted as the current interpretation is untrue.
* the passage is incomplete and that there exists other passages which explain how the dragons can exist while the world doesn't get destroyed.
* they should investigate ways to survive the destruction of Eberron.
They also fear the Aerenal elves who now know that if the dragons aren't destroyed, everyone will be. So the dragons periodically attack the elves to remind them of how powerful the dragons are and how they could be wiped out by the dragons at any time. They also do it to help stunt the growth of their power. The reason the dragons don't wipe the elves out completely, is the fear if they do, some will escape and manage to fulfill the prophecy and destroy the dragons.
The elves for their part know that if they made any big moves to fulfill the prophecy (and no-one even knows what the exact steps are), the dragons will wipe them out. So they're content to wait for now.
This also has the side-effect that the reason the dragons were horrified by the appearance of dragonmarks, is they see it as a sign that the prophecy is changing to include a world where dragons don't exist, instead moving the prophecy towards the lesser races.
The Elves also studied at the feet of the Giants and learnt magic from them, who in turn were taught by the Dragons. So in essence the Elves have access to very old and very powerful magic (there's always something lost in translation, but for the most part the knowledge is complete), which gives the Dragons pause for thought, since the Giants used to have such power and were corrupted/destroyed by it. Now the Elves have had such power (and their country has existed for some 40,000 years, around the same sort of length as the Giants before they were annihilated by the Dragons in the post Giant-Quori War era) for a while, what's holding them back?
That's the big question and the only ones who might be able to answer that are the fourth group in this big conspiracy (the three being the Dragons, the Fiends and the Undying Court). Of course the Titans don't really feel like conversing with their former masters turned destroyers, but things are going exactly according to their plans.