Thinking of running Eberron and am here to glean your ideas of ‘your’ post-war Khorvaire. I’m not too interested in the peace keeping so I’m thinking of having half of Khorvaire NOT agree with the Treaty of Thronehold. This means that all over the place the minority groups will break out as civil wars, border disputes, guerrilla warfare, suicide bombings (wtf!?!), etc wreak havoc all over Khorvaire. I want situations like Vietnam/Iraq, Kashmir etc. All over Khorvaire.
The reasons for this are twofold:
1. I think it would be very interesting to get the PC’s involved in situations that mimic current affairs; lots terrorist investigation, guerrilla warfare/survival, politics etc. Situations. It also makes everything that little bit more intense. Suddenly artifacts, magic items, etc. become extremely important.
and
2. I eventually want to break up the nations of Khorvaire into smaller nations so that I can add my own personal flavours to the setting.
So what cool stuff have you done to Khorvaire that has affected the place on a continental level? And if you know of any similar ideas to mine can you point me there so I can get some tips.
Cheers,
Latreya.
Aundair and Thrane start going at it over Thaliost, and Kaarnath is using the confusion to try and make a landgrab - annexing the Talenta Plains and attacking Valenar.
Meanwhile, the houses are at each others throats, and a war of the mark is in the brewing - a lot of it because of the fragmentation of House Cannith, but not just that. Also the Quori of Sarlona have done something in conjunction with Aeranol that has the dragons very, very upset. So yeah the world is going to hell in a handbasket, and the PC's will be in the very middle of it.
I've zoomed the timeline ahead ten years, and the onset of the second great war is upon the five nations...
Reminds me of another thread on this board regarding Khorvaire twenty years in the future, which had some more of this type of ideas:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1065080
Please note that my interest in Khorvaires future has a “political” focus:
- Boranel dies (assassinated?) causing civil war in Breland
- Cyrans claim a nation of their own (carved out of Breland?)
- Darguun and Valenar go to war
- Haruuc dies and the tribes split Darguun into 2 (or 3) separate countries
- Aundair and Thrane start going at it over Thaliost
- Kaarnath tries to make a land grab - annexing the Talenta Plains and attacking Valenar
- Shifters unite and claim their own country between Aundair and the Eldeen Reaches
- Khorvaire elves and half-elves forge their own kingdom somewhere (birds of a feather flock together)
- The 20% gnolls of Droaam declare themselves the original inhabitants and form their own nation in the dry plains of Droaam (I call it Gnolland
) - Q’barra splits into 2 separate countries: Lizardfolk in the north and colonists in the south
- New countries form in the Lhazaar Principalities
- Orcs form their own nation around crescent bay (southern tip of the Demon Wastes and the northern part of the Shadow Marches)
- Jaela Daran (now 31 years old) leads the church of the Silver Flame in a holy crusade to/against [need to find a good goal here... maybe the Lords of Dust in the Shadow Marches].
Any more thoughts?
Khorvaire elves and half-elves forge their own kingdom somewhere (birds of a feather flock together)
Well, if you go by the CURRENT foundation, the alliance isn't Khoravar and elves of Khorvaire, it's Khoravar (as led by House Lyrandar) and the Tairnadal elves of Valenar. There's lots of material (Dragonmarked, Expeditionary Dispatches, etc) suggesting that Lyrandar hopes to effectively transform Valenar into a Khoravar state. (Though personally, I don't know if I expect there to BE Tairnadal elves in Valenar in two decades... though that's another story.)
Q’barra splits into 2 separate countries: Lizardfolk in the north and colonists in the south
Is this really a change from the current situation? The Cold Sun Tribes don't think of themselves as "citizens of Q'barra", and they don't recognize the authority of the humans. They've just never had any interest in being a sovereign state. Beyond that, are you considering the existing division between the people of New Galifar and Hope? As is, the refugees and renegades of Hope have no particular love for the colonists of New Galifar.
The 20% gnolls of Droaam declare themselves the original inhabitants and form their own nation in the dry plains of Droaam
Looking to The Queen of Stone - my novel set in Droaam - I like the gnolls as the primary force of stability within the region. As I see it, the gnolls aren't interested in the constant fighting that has long characterizes the warlords of the region, with the strong oppressing the weak only to collapse when something stronger comes along. Between racial unity and neutrality - working with warlords instead of seeking to conquer them, unless that warlord attacks the gnolls - they have become one of the strongest and most stable forces in the land. This also means that they are one of the most trusted allies of the Daughters of Sora Kell. Which helps, because the Daughters will certainly make a vicious example of the first warlord to openly challenge their rule... and while gnolls have numbers and discipline, they lack the exotic powers of trolls, harpies, minotaurs, oni, gargoyles, lycanthropes, or the other forces the Daughters can bring to bear.
Of course, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the idea. Personally, I just like Droaam as it is: a nation where many different species are working together (albeit due to the iron hand of the Daughters of Sora Kell). In the Five Nations, you see what sort of society evolves when you have artifice and arcane magic underlying society. As Droaam expands, we see what comes when the powers of monsters are harnessed for the good of a nation.
Any more thoughts?
What seems to be lacking to me is any significant action on the part of the Dragonmarked Houses. IMO, one of the significant impacts of the Last War is that it has left many of the houses in a position where their international power may be equal to or greater than that of a nation - where it may no longer be possible to enforce the Korth Edicts, and where many houses have plans to increase their holdings and influence in the world. Lyrandar stands out as one such house, but skim through Dragonmarked and you'll find others.
Personally, I see the Next War as being far closer than two decades. The 4E ECS will talk in more detail about the fact that the peace really isn't that stable; no one won the Last War, they simply stopped fighting because they were terrified of the Mourning. If someone can conclusively prove that there is no danger of a second Mourning, I'd expect the struggle for Galifar to begin again relatively quickly - and even now, there are national forces preparing for that conflict. And just looking to canon, you have groups like the Swords of Liberty, Dannel's Wrath, the Swords of Karrn, the Order of the Emerald Claw, the Lord of Blades, the Stillborn, the Ashbound, and others who are actively engaged in terrorism or violent political activism; Khorvaire's not exactly a perfectly shiny peaceful place.
Interesting point on the elves, Q’barra, Droaam, and the Houses. I will need to do some proper research soon, probably throwing out ideas before I am completely familiar with my subject. I’ll have to check out Dragonmarked.
Though personally, I don't know if I expect there to BE Tairnadal elves in Valenar in two decades... though that's another story
Ooh! ooh! Do tell more Mr Baker!
Sorry, I haven’t read The Queen of Stone but what if the 3 sisters agreed to disagree (I can imagine 3 old hags fighting bitterly, especially now that they have so much dominion and land) and splitting the inhabitants and power three-ways between them in Droaam? I just can’t imagine all those beasties getting on so well.
A few things though: about the next war – I don’t really want to see another great war with united forces against each other but rather isolated and chaotic situations breaking out here and there. I want small rebellions, skirmishes, guerrilla warfare, coos (spelling?), assassinations, schisms etc.
The 4E ECS will talk in more detail about the fact that the peace really isn't that stable
Can’t wait, and I hope you do include a lot of possible future scenarios.
About the ‘birds of a feather’ I remember reading somewhere about the Khorvaire elves feeling more akin to the people of their nation rather than race. In situations all over Khorvaire (e.g. Droaam) there is great co mingling of different races. I understand this is a nice cosmopolitan feel, and a fantasy setting, but if you think about the reality of it... Sure in places like Sharn the racial spread would be totally varied but I think if you applied our worlds human(iod) social behaviour what you would see happening is something vastly different. The ‘birds of a feather’ syndrome would step in pretty fast. We see this happening with Gnomes, Dwarves, Halflings etc. in Khorvaire, why not with Elves, Orcs, Shifters and other large races? Anyhow, most fantasy settings are like that I guess so that could lead to a ‘same old same old’ bore factor.
And just looking to canon, you have groups like the Swords of Liberty, Dannel's Wrath, the Swords of Karrn, the Order of the Emerald Claw, the Lord of Blades, the Stillborn, the Ashbound, and others who are actively engaged in terrorism or violent political activism; Khorvaire's not exactly a perfectly shiny peaceful place
Good point. Perhaps I will involve these groups.
Thanks for the ideas.
Haruuc dies and the tribes split Darguun into 2 (or 3) separate countries
I extended Darguun into Zilargo to encompass the recaptured Paluur Draal and divided the Volaar faction's holdings into the southwestern Darguuni prefectures of Paluur, Volaar, New Dhakaan and Khesh with a Draal of the same name as capital of each. The New Dhakaani faction patrols their borders very vigorously and without regard to where the border actually lies.
The Kech Sharaat built Sharaat Draal in north central Darguun and are in a constant state of war with the New Dhakaani states. After the sack of Sterngate during the Darguuni civil war, Relations with Breland were more than strained. The fact that several miles of Brelish territory were added to the Sharaat state didn't sit well with Breland.
Rhukaan Draal was burned to the ground partially in the first attack by New Dhakaani forces and then again under the banner of the Sharaat. Haruuc survived through both attacks, but his power is severely jeopardized by his perceived weakness afterwards. The Sharaat raid constantly for plunder and slaves while the New Dhakaani faction take females of breeding age. Haruuc is dying of old age and has yet to find a suitable successor, but considering that most of his own tribe has abandoned his leadership, it doesn't matter. The rest of Darguun is completely divided between the clans of the Ghaal'dar.
The Ughtgaolaan Yarkuuni re-emerged from hiding during the civil war while the Brelanders were fighting the Kech Sharaat near Sterngate and seized Yarkuun Draal and it's surrounding area. The Yarkuuni immediately appealed to the Lhesh Dhakaan for aid and an army of Goblins was dispatched by sea to help shore up the Yarkuuni frontiers. Yarkuun Draal was hailed as the capital of the fifth prefecture of the New Dhakaani Empire.
The Dhakaani enclave at Jar'sharaat with the aid of recruits from the city goblins of Sharn have control of the lower portions of the city of spires. With control of it's lower portions lost, Breland has appealed to House Lyrander to turn as many airships as possible to the task of feeding the Brelish citizens trapped in the upper portions of the city while the goblins move both goods and troops into the city to hold their newly recaptured ancient city, now sworn to the Yarkuuni crown. Defensive lines established during the early fighting seem to be holding and the capture of the upper spires looks impossible to the Dhakaani for the time being.
The New Dhakaani empire announced that the Mournlands was the sole province of the Warforged and that it was the autonomous Warforged nation. As long as peace existed between the tribes of the metal-manlings and the Dhakaani, the empire would respect their border and surrender any creation forges, schema and captured warforged from their conquest of the manling states. Negotiations have stalled for the prospect of the warforged nation swearing it's allegiance as the sixth New Dhakaani prefecture.
The New Dhakaani empire is consolidating it's gains and breeding new legions to continue it's march across the nations of the manlings. The number of goblins has quadrupled but the hobgoblins and bugbears are breeding more slowly. It's ability to hold the territory gained will depend on their being able to outbreed their neighbors before their neighbors can launch a counter-attack.
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Enough politics? I particularly liked the Sharn airlift. It'll give you plenty of fun with dogfights between Lyrander airships and Dhakaani blimps.
I had the idea that house Lyrandar is creating islands north of stormhome (useing magic) to build a sea empire to get support before moveing to attack the five nation.
a City-state as formed in the shifting polictal waters of the Lhazaar Principalities. The city-state is becomeing a center for tarde because of the rare dyes and dragonshards it has on the island. the queen says that she is a aurdair noble that ran away form home but real she is a lyrandar heir that created the city-state as a foot hold of power for the house and for Aundair ( lyrandar's partern)
Ooh! ooh! Do tell more Mr Baker!
The Forge of War touches on this, and it's something I've mentioned before. In my opinion, the Tairnadal have little interest in actually possessing a kingdom (which is one reason they're allowing the Khoravar to do so much of the actual kingdom building). What they want is war. But specifically, they want the chance to emulate the deeds of their ancestors... who notably were NOT invaders or conquerors. The Tairnadal heroes fought a guerrilla war against a superior foe, using cunning, mobility, and knowledge of the terrain against the stronger and mystically superior giants. Thus, in my opinion, they claimed Valenar not as a kingdom, but as a killing ground. They want to convince a powerful enemy to attack them on their home ground - the land they've gotten to know well over the last 40 years. Hence their provocative behavior against nations like Karrnath - they WANT Karrnath to attack them. But they'd rather that Karrnath attacks THEM than engage in a fullscale invasion of Karrnath themselves; again, they want that home field advantage, fighting in a land where they know the terrain and can use that knowledge as a weapon. And should things not work out, they can just go home to Aerenal; Valenar itself just isn't that important to them.
So I think that they will continue to escalate their provocative behavior until someone does finally take them up on it; the question is who that will be.
Sorry, I haven’t read The Queen of Stone but what if the 3 sisters agreed to disagree (I can imagine 3 old hags fighting bitterly, especially now that they have so much dominion and land) and splitting the inhabitants and power three-ways between them in Droaam? I just can’t imagine all those beasties getting on so well.
The issue to me is that I see the Daughters of Sora Kell as being more mythic figures than just a bunch of old hags. They're like the Fates, the Gorgons, the Gray Sisters, the Furies, and so on - a trio tied together by blood and destiny. This is reflected by their abilities and the role they play in the nation. Sora Katra is the Voice of Droaam. She's the politician, the one with the charisma to make the monsters WANT to join forces... and the one who enjoys playing the political games. Sora Maenya is the Fist, possessing both raw physical power of her own and the loyalty of the giant corps that serve as the Daughters' elite enforcers. Those not swayed by Katra's honeyed words live in fear of Maenya's terrible strength. Finally, Sora Teraza is the Vision. She's the oracle who advises her sisters. She'd be a terrible ruler on her own, but she's an invaluable addition to the trio, as it's through her that they know about potential betrayals and threats.
So personally I think that they are far more interesting as a mythic unit than being split up. Droaam's got lots of individual warlords - Sheshka, Tzaryan Rrac, Zauerl - the power of the Daughters comes from their unity.
A few things though: about the next war – I don’t really want to see another great war with united forces against each other but rather isolated and chaotic situations breaking out here and there. I want small rebellions, skirmishes, guerrilla warfare, coos (spelling?), assassinations, schisms etc.
Sure. My point is that this isn't necessarily a change from the setting as established; it's just not called out clearly in the current ECS. Khorvaire isn't supposed to be a stable place. People haven't forgotten the tensions of a century in just a few years, and you should be able to have skirmishes on the borders between any of the Five Nations. The potential of open conflict with Valenar or Droaam is quite real. Aundair may try to take back the Reaches, and even if they don't you already have regular strikes against them by the Ashbound. The Swords of Liberty are one obvious source of violence within Breland, while Karrnathi warlords backed by the Emerald Claw are plotting the remove Kaius III. The Throneholders of Thrane may assassinate enemies of the Thrane nobility. Dannel's Wrath may engage in terrorist actions against any of the Five Nations in their quest to promote the cause of Cyre, while the Swords of Karrn intend to overthrow all five nations. The Lord of Blades views all creatures of flesh as his enemy. Thaliost should be a violent hotspot. Holy Uldra of the Talenta Plains is advocating violence against outsiders. Etc, etc. So my point is not to discourage any idea, but rather to say that you don't have to go forward two decades to get it; even two years could make a lot of difference.
About the ‘birds of a feather’ I remember reading somewhere about the Khorvaire elves feeling more akin to the people of their nation rather than race.
Yes, that's a standard part of the setting. The Redcloak heroes in Sharn include a dwarf and a shifter... and the dwarves of Breland have more in common with the humans of Breland than they do with the dwarves of the Mror Holds. It's hard to compare this to our world, because we don't have people of different species around. In our world, you also have the specter of slavery or recent immigration as underlying themes that cause racial tension. In the case of the Five Nations, the only races that were enslaved were the goblins and the warforged, and today you DO still have some strong racial tensions in both cases. While meanwhile, the dwarves of Breland have been their since before Galifar, and dwarvish hands built the towers of Sharn. There IS tension between the Mror dwarves and the Karrns, but that has nothing to do with Brelish dwarves. Meanwhile, you do have the Silver Torch in Thrane, and could easily have similar groups in other nations. But the basic point is that the typical Brelish human and Brelish dwarf think of themselves as Brelish first and foremost; the comingling was going on before Breland even existed, and their ancestors fought side by side in Galifar's army. (There are other exceptions, notably races that DIDN'T participate in this struggle, exist in small numbers, etc - such as the isolationist Kalashtar and the changelings, both of whom may be viewed with suspicion.)
We see this happening with Gnomes, Dwarves, Halflings etc. in Khorvaire, why not with Elves, Orcs, Shifters and other large races?
But the gnomes, dwarves, and halflings didn't LEAVE other nations to form their own countries; those countries existed before the Five Nations. As opposed to flocking together, what we've seen is dwarves leaving the Ironroot Mountains, halflings leaving the Plains, gnomes leaving Zilargo, and elves leaving Aerenal to join the other nations - and again, Galifar's army wasn't a human army. The Five Nations were founded by a multiracial force; if you want a fully human nation, you need to go back to Sarlona.
As for orcs and shifters, they do have tribal territories. There's certainly parts of the Eldeen Reaches dominated by shifter tribes. But like the lizardfolk of Q'barra, they're neither organized enough or interested in trying to become a sovereign state recognized by the others. There isn't a declared "Shifter State", but there's certainly shifter-dominated territories within the Eldeen Reaches, and if the Aundairians (or even a bunch of eastern Eldeen farmers) came in and started chopping down trees, they'd get their asses kicked. But those tribes aren't necessarily allied with the tribes to the north or south. Ditto in the Shadow Marches; it's a territory filled with orcs, but as few tof the clans get along, they have no real interest in creating an orcish nation. It could happen, but compared to Darguun, the orcs culturally have no history of empire-building. You do see some of this with the Khoravar, but that's a mixed thing; Lyrandar wants a nation, while Medani is all for integration.
Thaliost should be a violent hotspot.
mmmm.... yes, there's a good place to dump the PC's!
So, yes, you're list of potential conflicts is inspiring. What I need to do is make them all actually happen in a big way and have dramatic effects, then project a few more years into the future while the kerfuffle is still bubbling and throw my PC's in the midst of it.
Cheers.
Whenever His Infernal Bovinity posts on the board, I always get ideas, and the bulk of them are evil (to my players). Why, Keith, why must you tempt me to darkness and villainy?
Because he can...:evillaugh
Whenever His Infernal Bovinity posts on the board, I always get ideas, and the bulk of them are evil (to my players). Why, Keith, why must you tempt me to darkness and villainy?
Why do you think his boards ID is Hellcow? :D
Cyre, as the home to House Cannith and House Phiarlann, and their attendant guilds would have benefitted immensely, while the three other Kingdom's industries would suffer. Her obstinence in this was the cause of the war. Aundair, being the least developed state, would have supported Mishann's efforts.
As for the War's conclusion, the Aurum, realizing that the 5N would never be able to pay off their war debt should the fighting continue, caused (through a sinister bargain) the Mourning--essentially writing off Cyre--in order to stop the war and give nations the ability to collect taxes again and trade with each other.
So, the modern peace is one of bankruptcy. Nations can't go to war because they can't afford it--which has translated into ruinous taxation... and internal unrest.
I don't see a New War happening any time soon. But I do see plenty of smaller ones within the 5N, and wars with states outside of the 5N... Darguun in particular. The continental penury also leads the 5N to make agreements and expenditures that they wouldn't in ordinary times, such as pacts with Riedra, expeditions to Xen'drik, and a host of other extraordinary attempts to unburden themselves from debt and restore their lost glory.
And behind all the curtains are the Villainous Aurum, and their Ancient Ally....
note: I'm usually not all anti-corporate or money or whatever, but I wanted to develop an economic history for the initiation and conclusion of the Last War, and this is what I came up with.
Yakman, that is an awesome idea. I like.
Thanks. People are more than capable of running a hundred year war, or going a bit bonkers (Jarot's paranoia) that you don't need the Inspired or the Lords of Dust to help out.
The twist that I like--and that I haven't done enough to develop--is that the Aurum, who murdered a million Cyreans, are the "good guys." They don't want a new war, they want the Lightning Rails rebuild, and they want trade to resume. In many ways, they are the only people in Khorvaire who seek the Greater Good.
That that Greater Good required the death of an entire nation, well... if you want to make an omelette...
Members of House Thuranni split from the Phiarlan because they wanted to release this information before the Day of Mourning and save Cyre. They now seek to find the evidence and go public to achieve some sort of justice for those responsible.
As a result their is a full fledged three-party shadow war currently in progress, with Thuranni and the Aurum after the incriminating evidence and Phiarlan protecting it and attempting to reabsorb Thuranni through any means necessary.
Unfortunately, the well-meaning Thuranni may be the most in the wrong here. If it is ever revealed who caused the Day of Mourning and how, the Last War would likely resume and all the gains of the temporary peace lost.
Just riffing on your theme, Yakman!
The Inspired were content to hold only Riedra, and do some minor exploration of Xen'drik until a few years ago, when they realized that there were a lot fewer of them than there had been in the past. The Dark of it is--and even the Inspired haven't quite learned this yet--is that the Cannith process of Creating a Warforged binds a quori spirit to Eberron.
As such, when the Warforged started getting created, thousands of quori vanished from Dal Quor... including a mighty kalaraq. Worried that even one of their most powerful could vanish, the quori have begun reach out to the rest of the world, particularly Khorvaire, in an effort to find the source of the problem. They've also become much more active in an extra-planar sense, as the spirits could have gone anywhere....
Although the disappearances have largely stopped, the damage has been done--Riedra is critically short of Inspired. Although the situation is manageable, the Inspired are worried about their long-term security on Sarlona, and want to ensure that no threats from distant shores emerge, which has led them to befriend Khorvaire's recovering nations and try to learn as much as they can about what may have happened to their lost kin.
Which is where Vol steps in. To get to Q'barra and Karrnath, the Riedrans have to sail to territory frequented by cutters loyal to her... and these Riedrans don't pay up. The psychotic pirates described in PGtE enjoy attacking the rich prizes that the Riedran merchant men are, but the Riedrans are fighting back. The good pirates in PGtE are allied to Riedra, and often have Chosen or even Inspired advisors.
Vol is more familiar than most with the circumstances that led to the rise of the Inspired, and she doesn't trust them. But she has to pick her battles--using elite teams of hired mercenaries (read: PCs) to make surgical strikes against the Riedrans in Lhazaar and Q'barra, and even Sarlona. She realizes that the Riedrans might threaten her long-term plans (and her plans are very long-term) and doesn't want them meddling in what she views as 'Her' continent.
The Inspired, for their part, encourage their allies to persecute the Blood--even the every-day followers who mind their own business.
So here, Vol is the "good guy"--defending Khorvaire from the Inspired--and the "good guys" in the source material--those valiant scalawags who fight BoV reavers--are serving the Inspired.