Like, Moon, Sun (probabably Star) Elves will be regrouped under Eladrin (perhaps modified for FR).
The question is.... Do we need that many racialy/statisticaly different subraces, when a good lot of them could be argued to be simply cultures?
Now, if a subrace is divergent enough, yes, it's deserving - like Drow.
Also, somes could be better represented as a template or special thing, like sea elf (Marine/Sea being template?) and those elven werebeings (werebeing template? Path? ).
But then I flip through my 3.5 Guide of the Underdark and I see more races that I never really saw that much of impact in Faerun but were fun to play. Such as the Deep Imaskar Slyth, Gloaming, and Chitine. And that's just one of the many splat books for FR. Unapproachable East, and Shinning South both have very intresting Races as well.
So are we just suppose to House Rule them into exsistance?
A thing don't need stats to exist.
If the gods of Eberron do exist, they exist; even if there is no stats at all, to use an example.
As long it's mentioned in fluff, well...
The Dragonborn get a 'Winged' Feat at Epic levbels, so I can see much the same being done to the Elves.
Voila, take a feat, instant Avariel - that simple.
I hate to see the Lythari become Lycanthropes, though - perhaps a feat for them as well - something like Nature's Call or some-such.
They shouldn't be too difficult to adapt; just take an eladrin and replace the fey step power by the doppleganger's Change Shape.
Whatever other powers could be gained as racial feats.
Maybe a good thing to do would be try to list them all and see what they might have in common.
Bel
The Dragonborn get a 'Winged' Feat at Epic levels...
I was precisely looking for that feat in a 4EPHB I had occasion to look at and I didn't find it.
And I was precisely looking for it after seeing the winged dragonborn in the 4EMM. I find very odd not to make that feat!That, or I am blinder than I believe.
And I think It would be a complete rip off to make a feat that makes you a race. Feats are things that you have learned to do by mastering a part of yourself. You shouldn't have to waste one on an ability that is yours by birth. Feats can be race specific, and even class dependent, but just because an elf gets wings through a feat doesn't make him a Avariel. We could do that right now by having the elf become a warlock. The Idea to me just doesn't flow with the "Idea" or feel of feats. But that's just me.
That makes better sense. Though I think you should have to specify what you are before you go in. So you can't be an elf and all of the sudden sprout wings or grow gills. I guess Sea Elves can have a better swim speed, and Araviel could have some sort of affinity for air, like feather fall as an encounter ability, that is at the beginning. So they don't just look or act like normal elves. They would lose their elven acuracy power obviously.
If you were to create your own avariel race, using the elf as a "template", you could just drop elven accuracy and add flight as an encounter power, using the ritual spell for the effect.
If you were to create your own avariel race, using the elf as a "template", you could just drop elven accuracy and add flight as an encounter power, using the ritual spell for the effect.
but because of what 4ed is trying to do, I REALLY don't think we'll see templates in the sense of what we saw in 3rd ed. A drag in drop effect may appear, but I highly doubt it.
During the Heroic tier it is a daily power, during the Paragon tier it is an encounter power, and through the Epic tier it is an at-will power.
I was precisely looking for that feat in a 4EPHB I had occasion to look at and I didn't find it.
I think it was Rich Baker (but I could be wrong) that said the winged ones in the MM have an epic Feat to accomplish that, but that Feat isn't 'out yet' (I guess we wait for more epic rules).
Either way, thats what I'm sure I heard, but I just couldn't tell you the source. :embarrass
It also might have been from one of the LFR leads... damn old age
Besides, that doesn't really flow with the whole Araviel concept. I mean they have wings, they really should be able to fly when ever they feel like it. It's kinda the perks of having them.
Ah, but by making it an encounter power, you can use it "indefinitely" outside of combat, because how long does a non-combat flying encounter take? If I were DM'ing, I would allow this to happen. And if you fly during combat, it last one turn (IIRC). Granted I know this isn't the greatest, but it is better than nothing.
I only offered a suggestion, not a definite solution.
I only offered a suggestion, not a definite solution.
Don't we all, :D .
Don't we all, :D .
True that! I hope I didn't come off as being pushy or arrogant, message boards tend to lose the inflections of direct talking.
I was never a huge avarial fan, but would not want to see them gone from the setting.
And I agree with the above as well. My favorite rhetorical term has to be sarcasm and it is one of the hardest to understand and easiest to be offended by. Oh how my witt curses me so.
It's episode 73, for those who care to listen. I believe this part is located when there is about 16 minutes left in the podcast.
But it's part of the creatures physical make up. Air Genasi have a mystical bond with the very air around them, and to gain enough control over it for a short period of time to fly can be draining, therefore and encounter power. But with a winged elf it's only basic logic that they can fly, just like a dragon will fly. But I do agree that no matter how logical it sounds it would be game breaking. What a shame. So I guess the easiest way to fix it would be:
During the Heroic tier it is a daily power, during the Paragon tier it is an encounter power, and through the Epic tier it is an at-will power.
Yeah and that's why I think the whole idea of a "balanced" RPG is such a crock. Life is not balanced or fair. I would say that the nature of a RPG that reflects reality albeit a highly fictionalized reality is why some therapists have use it in the past. But hey, what do I know... I'm just a dinosaur
Yeah and that's why I think the whole idea of a "balanced" RPG is such a crock. Life is not balanced or fair. I would say that the nature of a RPG that reflects reality albeit a highly fictionalized reality is why some therapists have use it in the past. But hey, what do I know... I'm just a dinosaur
RPG is not just a story, it's also a game.
I agree that perfect balance would be drab and anyway unatainable, yet.... I think that gross disbalance is just plain annoying.
Also, balance =/= egal/uniform.
Yeah and that's why I think the whole idea of a "balanced" RPG is such a crock. Life is not balanced or fair. I would say that the nature of a RPG that reflects reality albeit a highly fictionalized reality is why some therapists have use it in the past. But hey, what do I know... I'm just a dinosaur
-Agreed. Things can be made less "broken" and stuff, though.
Strange as that sounds, I think that might be the heart of the problem, right there.
The Wizard will always fail at fighting hand to hand, even now. And the Fighter... will fail at magic.
The playing field was planished (?), everyone can do some base, low tricks, but are they identic really?
(it's how I understand the objections and analyse them...)
Personaly, I will say that I like that the high and mighty evil archmage seems to have even more reasons to fear the blade hero after his arse now...
See - this seems to be the root of what so many of us who dislike the 4e rules are saying - the rules are SO un-broken (balanced) they they are actually broken for that very reason.
-Interesting logic.
The Wizard will always fail at fighting hand to hand, even now. And the Fighter... will fail at magic.
-Well, yeah, that's how it should be. Fighters fight, and Wizards...wizz...:embarrass
Personaly, I will say that I like that the high and mighty evil archmage seems to have even more reasons to fear the blade hero after his arse now...
-Well, getting your ass kicked was always getting your ass kicked. It always feels the same, be it from a Fighter's sword, a Wizard's spell, a Psion's power, Ranger's arrow, whatever.
An Eberron design style is adopted - the subraces won't get axed really, but regrouped under existing base races and cultures-ed.
Like, Moon, Sun (probabably Star) Elves will be regrouped under Eladrin (perhaps modified for FR).
The question is.... Do we need that many racialy/statisticaly different subraces, when a good lot of them could be argued to be simply cultures?
I agree. The subraces won't get axed, just regrouped.
I agree. The subraces won't get axed, just regrouped.
-This much, we already know. Many are going to be umbrellaed into existing 4e races, and that's that, while others will be umbrellaed into existing 4e races, and then given access to special powers/feats/whatevers, to make them match statistically in D&D what they are. The Ghostwise Halflings, for example.
Speaking of races being 'axed', in the Realms, will gnomes be all dead or will they be monsters? What do we know about the status of gnomes in the Realms so far?
-Gnomes are still there. Their stats are in the Monster Manual instead of being in the Monster Manual and the Player's Handbook, apparently.
-Gnomes are still there. Their stats are in the Monster Manual instead of being in the Monster Manual and the Player's Handbook, apparently.
I know that, I own the 4e books, but I was wondering what their status is in the Realms. Do they live among humans in cities still, are they still powerfull in Lantan, or have they been reduced to the common wondering monster? And another question, is the Gnome Panthenon still there, or did they get 'axed'?
-Gnomes in the Forgotten Realms are still Gnomes in the Forgotten Realms. As to the status of their pantheon...We'll see.
Look for similar things to happen to gnomes as happened to the dwarven, elven and hin pantheons.
Get accustomed to the word 'exarch'. :P
Joe
Get accustomed to the word 'exarch'. :P
-Not particularly. Most Demihuman pantheons will, I believe, reduced to "Masks".
-Not particularly. Most Demihuman pantheons will, I believe, reduced to "Masks".
So alot of the non-human gods will, rather than be seperate gods, will be the same as the human gods simply with a different name?
So alot of the non-human gods will, rather than be seperate gods, will be the same as the human gods simply with a different name?
-Rich Baker has already used Sehanine Moonbow and Selûne as an example. One that I think will be happening is Hanali Celanil actually being Sune in "Elven form". With Demihuman deities, I think a lot of that is going to be going on.
-Rich Baker has already used Sehanine Moonbow and Selûne as an example. One that I think will be happening is Hanali Celanil actually being Sune in "Elven form". With Demihuman deities, I think a lot of that is going to be going on.
This means they are simplifing even the Demihuman Panthenons. Sigh. I like 4e and all, but did they HAVE to simplify the Panthenon? It was, in my opinion, one of the many things that made the Realms unique.
This means they are simplifing even the Demhuman Panthenons.
-They are 'simplifying' every pantheon. There are going to be about 30 Lesser, Intermediate and Greater deities in the FRCG. Everyone else is going to be a "mask", an "exarch", dead, transformed, or whatever else can be done.
It was, in my opinion, one of the many things that made the Realms unique.
-That's the "problem". And, yes, I say that sarcastically, as that isn't a problem. But, for whatever reason, some people do see it as a problem. I'd hate for those people to live in a traditional Hindu village, but whaddya gonna do?
-They are 'simplifying' every pantheon. There are going to be about 30 Lesser, Intermediate and Greater deities in the FRCG. Everyone else is going to be a "mask", an "exarch", dead, transformed, or whatever else can be done.
-That's the "problem". And, yes, I say that sarcastically, as that isn't a problem. But, for whatever reason, some people do see it as a problem. I'd hate for those people to live in a traditional Hindu village, but whaddya gonna do?
I suppose the simplifiying of the panthenon was a good thing in many ways... but they got rid of my favorite god
I suppose the simplifiying of the panthenon was a good thing in many ways...
-How so? Rather, why do you think?
-How so? Rather, why do you think?
Well, it was good 'cause with the simplified panthenon, more people will likely try the Realms, I'm just upset because I believe they got rid of some of the best gods in the Realms... like the whole Drow Panthenon other than Lolth...
I'd be a whole lot more upset with the deity reduction if it weren't for the fact that I believe my favorite God will make it.
As the great philosipher Mick Jagar once said "You can't always get what you want.."
I'd be a whole lot more upset with the deity reduction if it weren't for the fact that I believe my favorite God will make it.
I guess the deity simplifying effects different people in different ways, and I probably wouldn't be so upset if they didn't get rid of Eli
Well, it was good 'cause with the simplified panthenon, more people will likely try the Realms...
-Why do you think that? I know people do say that, but as was mentioned, anything that a person didn't want, they didn't have to use in the first place.
-Why do you think that? I know people do say that, but as was mentioned, anything that a person didn't want, they didn't have to use in the first place.
I am just working off what I have been hearing lately and I just simply am starting to agree:D
Wait, so what you are saying is, I, as a DM, could make it so Eli was still alive in 4e?
Wait, so what you are saying is, I, as a DM, could make it so Eli was still alive in 4e?
-Unbelievable, I know, right? ;) :P
-Unbelievable, I know, right? ;) :P
Why didn't anyone tell me this before? That changes everything! 4e Realms, here I come!:D
-If only it were that simple, right?
Ya, I guess so. Still, I can change whatever I want in the Realms!
I feel like god.
DM = Over-Overgod. *snicker* Power is the greatest currency.
Technically, the 'official' take on the ending of the Avatar series was YOU, the READER, were Ao's boss.
Ergo, if you are also a DM, then YOU are Ao's boss, and you are far more powerful then an Overgod. :D
Probably an Elder of the Universe or something...
Ao, on the other hand, is simply a primordial in 4e - something that came before the gods, and is/was more powerful then them, but does not interact with mortals because the gods have 'taken' that part of the running of the Universe away from them; either by force - Core - or by wilingness (delegation of responsibilites a'la FR).
I still rather liked my last line. If it's not too conceeded to say so myself.
We could always change whatever we wanted - its just now there isn't any 'messy lore' standing in our way.
I feel 'liberated'....
Ohhhh... I get it now....
We could always change whatever we wanted - its just now there isn't any 'messy lore' standing in our way.
I feel 'liberated'....
Yep.:D
I feel 'liberated'....
-No. Definitely not.
Ohhhh... I get it now....
We could always change whatever we wanted - its just now there isn't any 'messy lore' standing in our way.
I feel 'liberated'....
don't you mean manzier
They've earned their freedom. :D
Ummm... whats this all got to do with races agin?
Ummm... whats this all got to do with races agin?
-Listening to all of this makes me want to e-race my memory?