Hi all. I'm about to start a 4e FR campaign for a group of friends. We've have gamed together on and off over the past 15-20 years. We haven't played D&D as a group, but a few of us have played back to 1stE red box.
I am running the game, and have decided to start the PC's in Baldur's Gate. I figured it's a large port city that was untouched by The Troubles for the most part.
I have an idea for the campaign, but need some focus to build out the tiers.
I am running a few published adventures to get them started. I would like to set them against agents of one of the growing Imperial nations (Thay or Netheril). In a variation of the Zombie Horde idea, I had ideas for escalating encounters with undead leading to a low/mid level Lich directing skirmishes and setting up for larger incursions.
This lich would be an agent of a larger force. Thay and Ssaz Tam (sp) would provide the perfect enemies for this. The only problem I am seeing is why Thay would be escalating hostilities so far away to the west? Gain a port city and choke off inland trade to nations arrayed against Thay?
If I were to change to Netheril, whom appear to hate undead, what could I focus the PC's against instead of undead?
Szass Tam has far reaching goals so he might have an interest in Baldurs Gate. Its got one of the Realms largest populations, maybe he wants to set off a plague or something that will kill of the population and make them rise again as his undead minions. Or maybe its a Thayan Enclave, they still got Enclaves all over the Realms, even if theyre not officially affiliated with Thay anymore, so you could say its a nearby Enclave, whos to say there isnt one in Baldurs Gate?
To be honest, based on his appearances in lore and novels, ST strikes me more as the type to concentrate on the realms immediately around him, and then expand outward. Netheril seems more like the type to fling their net as far as possible and then reel in their catch. That being said, if you wanted ST to stick his fingers into the politics of Baldur's Gate, a treacherous Thayan enclave is ideal. Though going by canon (which you need not recognize), Red Wizard enclaves no longer have an affiliation with Thay, this one can be unique, in that it still answers to ST. Make sure this is a closely guarded secret, and that the wizards in the enclave are involved in a few plots, with a few pawns under their control. Use a minor hook to lead into it: the PCs are hired by a disgruntled client whose product was never completed and who seeks an explanation, the Flaming Fists are curious as to the enclave's recent activities and want freelance warriors to investigate, etc... Then, when the PCs have gained entry into the enclave, they can keep their eyes open and something else will pop up; or, if they're denied entry, just make the PCs all the more suspicious.
whos to say there isnt one in Baldurs Gate?
I say there isn't one! I've been all over Baldur's Gate, and I've never seen no Thayan Enclave. I've never, ever heard anything about there being an Enclave there, In fact I think they mentioned that Baldur's Gate refused to have any in the city in one of the source books.
whos to say there isnt one in Baldurs Gate?
I say there isn't one! I've been all over Baldur's Gate, and I've never seen no Thayan Enclave. I've never, ever heard anything about there being an Enclave there, In fact I think they mentioned that Baldur's Gate refused to have any in the city in one of the source books.
Just because it wasnt in the video game, doesnt mean that they dont have one.
Perhaps you could twist things around so that Szass Tam's interest in Baldur's Gate has something to do with his continued existence and/or retaining his power?
I'm not sure if Tam's bargain with Bane meant he surrendered his soul immediately (or if that was a millennia down the road)....regardless, maybe clues to some great magic or artifact or spellbook or combination thereof exists in Baldur's Gate that would allow Tam a means of backing out of his deal with Bane?
As to the question of whether or how a Red Wizard enclave could exist in Baldur's Gate, the answer is that Tam, like so many mages before and after him, prefers to work through intermediaries. Maybe he has spies and agents who ostensibly took on the role of expatriate Red Wizards in Baldur's Gate, who worked hard to spread knowledge and mastery of the new ways of using magic (through Tam's instruction to them), which made them trusted and relied upon in the city.
Once established, those agents could then work behind the scenes to uncover the secrets Tam wants found.
So, insert the player characters -who may or may not know they're on the same track as Tam's agents- and pit them against Tam's pet Lich and the enclave mages in Baldur's Gate.
Were this my game, I'd have agents of Waterdeep, Netheril, Larloch and the Order of Blue Fire all on the same hunt, with each group possessing a snippet of the larger picture Tam has already put together.
Or use the ultimate swerve, have the pc's unknowingly working for Tam, and against everybody else...
Wow, thanks for the ideas guys. There are definately some good directions to go here.
After thinking about things last night I hada few ideas.
Tam needs to pull off this huge ritual in order to become immortal from what I've read. He needs to utilize the Dread Keeps or replicas of them on Untainted ground to enact this ritual.
Baldur's Gate is huge now. It would provide plenty of muscle if say, a necrotic plague were to infect the populace. Said plague would bring the dead back as zombies or other forms of undead. These could provide a workforce to build his Dread Keeps in record time, and allow him to perform his ritual.
Heroic Tier would be the PC's investigating civilian disappearances and undead sightings. Hints dropped about experiments with a plague of undeath. Leading to the local Lich commanding the experiments in Tam's name. Plague is lessened or loosed depending on their actions.
Paragon Tier would be the PC's taking action to mitigate the plague effects or find a reversal/cure. Agents of Tam would be actively hunting them at this point. I could incorporate the Red Wizards at this point either as agents of Tam, or opposing Tam and helping the PC's. Race to locate a major Artifact that can stop the plague. End tier with acquisition of Artifact by PC's or Tam.
Epic Tier would be taking on the forces of Thay in direct confrontation. Either by having Thayan forces invade the Baldur's Gate area through a Portal newly opened, or taking the fight to Thay if the PC's have the artifact and stop the plague.
How's that sound? I could incorporate some of the ideas from you guys in there I think.
Wow, thanks for the ideas guys. There are definately some good directions to go here.
After thinking about things last night I hada few ideas.
Tam needs to pull off this huge ritual in order to become immortal from what I've read. He needs to utilize the Dread Keeps or replicas of them on Untainted ground to enact this ritual.
Baldur's Gate is huge now. It would provide plenty of muscle if say, a necrotic plague were to infect the populace. Said plague would bring the dead back as zombies or other forms of undead. These could provide a workforce to build his Dread Keeps in record time, and allow him to perform his ritual.
Heroic Tier would be the PC's investigating civilian disappearances and undead sightings. Hints dropped about experiments with a plague of undeath. Leading to the local Lich commanding the experiments in Tam's name. Plague is lessened or loosed depending on their actions.
Paragon Tier would be the PC's taking action to mitigate the plague effects or find a reversal/cure. Agents of Tam would be actively hunting them at this point. I could incorporate the Red Wizards at this point either as agents of Tam, or opposing Tam and helping the PC's. Race to locate a major Artifact that can stop the plague. End tier with acquisition of Artifact by PC's or Tam.
Epic Tier would be taking on the forces of Thay in direct confrontation. Either by having Thayan forces invade the Baldur's Gate area through a Portal newly opened, or taking the fight to Thay if the PC's have the artifact and stop the plague.
How's that sound? I could incorporate some of the ideas from you guys in there I think.
That's actually a very solid set-up you have there. One thing to keep in mind: Baldur's Gate is a pretty diverse city; there's all manner of folk willing to aid or harm. In other words, try to involve some of the other factions or individuals of the city. The vast majority will side with the PCs, so take advantage of this. The Flaming Fists are an ideal ally for the heroes, as are the various guilds that operate in BG. You could set it up so that the PCs not only come to rely on the Fists for support, but also, say, a thieves' guild, with a lot of resources and a desire to avoid being turned into mindless drones for some Eastern necromancer. Additionally, the other ragtag folk of BG might be treacherous and seek to ally with Szass Tam against the PCs. A down-on-his-luck merchant, an aspiring necromancer, a nihilist who wishes to see the light of the city's population snuffed out... all of them could play some role in hindering the heroes and promoting Szass Tam's work. Keep them in the shadows, letting the Red Wizard enclave take the limelight, then when the PCs aren't expecting it, knock them down a peg with a betrayal from one of the natives, preferably one they befriended or respected. That'll give them something to mull over while they're avoiding catastrophe.
Baldur's Gate is huge now. It would provide plenty of muscle if say, a necrotic plague were to infect the populace. Said plague would bring the dead back as zombies or other forms of undead. These could provide a workforce to build his Dread Keeps in record time, and allow him to perform his ritual.
Ooh I like this idea. Preying on the Baldur's Gate population to turn them all into zombies in order to make a massive zone of Dread Keeps is positively evil (and awesome)!
So...Moander. I think plauge, I think Moander. Moander isn't on any list in the Pantheons of the World section of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide (pages 80 and 81), but that doesn't mean he can't be used. ;)
Also, as a DM I like to change things up on my players. Make them think the problem is from source A, when it's really source B controlling source A.
So how about if Tam's agents are secretly funding the efforts of Moander cultists, who are working to find within the city a fragment of Moander's godhead/essence so they can release it into the Baldur's Gate population?
The essence would automatically devour all the living souls in the city via unstoppable plague in order to build its power, at which point Tam's assigned Lich leader eliminates the cultists and captures the essence of Moander and drains it of all that power in order to cast a ritual to raise up the entire plague-dead population as zombies under the Lich's (and thus Tam's) control. Zombies then tear down the city to start building Dread Keeps.
Next stop in their diabolical plan: Rinse and repeat in Waterdeep.
Your players could spend some time laboring under the idea that the cultists are the threat, only to learn at the right dramatic moment that something more sinister is behind it all. Mix in Larloch and you've got lots of room for hints, guesswork, innuendo, roleplaying and skill challenges.
For some reason while reading this thread I keep being reminded of Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 2 for PS 2.
The Onyx Tower, Eldrith the Betrayer, Baldur's Gate being turned into a City of Undead, good game...
Moander was killed on his own plane, and his divinity was assumed by Finder Wyvernspur.
This much is known, yes. However there are instances where deities presumed dead have left behind vestiges of their former power.
I think it'd be somewhat interesting in the OP's scenario if Lloth came along masquerading as Moander for a power grab, but it would be more fun if a true "piece of Moander" existed.
Right, theres reference in the 4e Campaighn Guide about a pit of evil corruption in the Dalelands, that has Moander written all over it.
Larloch's minions to make a cameo, just because he's badass.
Indeed! There's none badder in all the Realms! What would Larloch be by 4e standards? I know he's a lich, but would he be a wizard or a warlock? His abode was called the Warlock's Crypt after all.
What would Larloch be by 4e standards? I know he's a lich, but would he be a wizard or a warlock? His abode was called the Warlock's Crypt after all.
He'd still be a wizard. Just because his abode is named Warlock's Crypt doesn't mean he's suddenly sold his soul to Mephistopheles or the Lord of Bats. Unless he did, and we don't know about it...