4e Stats Conversions For The Gods - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

4e Stats Conversions For The Gods

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
arohkthedark
Jun 23, 2009 11:14:11 I've been running a sort of free form game in the Realms as of Late

And My players have decided to take quite a disliking to Cyric and now are on a quest to Kill him

Does anyone know where I could get a some idea what kind of stats he has and what kind of powers he would use.

I had thought about just using Demogorgons powers and Just getting rid of all the Dual actions stuff. Seems to Kinda fit Cyrics style.

Any Comments would be Helpful (Evening wacking people with a staff Jokes would bring some humor to the game ;) )
#2
The_Simbul_of_Aglarond
Jun 23, 2009 20:48:44 Cyric would be a level 35 Solo--as is the standard for the deities in the rules so far--and his most likely role would be Lurker or Skirmisher. He would of course have all the standard traits a deity possesses in 4E, the foremost including that they cannot be permanently killed unless the PCs complete an epic quest to discover the unique means to destroy a given god. Otherwise they merely discorporate for an indeterminate time when bloodied, usually long enough for the PCs to find the weapon/lore/ritual/spell/conditions needed to destroy them for good--and thus confronting them again on a more even footing. See the entry for Tiamat in the Dracomicon, and the brief on deity rules contained therein for an example.

I would imagine of all the gods of Faerûn, that Cyric would be the first we would see statistics for and/or an epic adventure based on confronting or killing him, given the foreshadowing we have seen in the lore so far. The point of his murder of Mystra and his imprisonment was quite clearly (from my perspective at least) the plot set up for the PCs to confront and defeat him. Of course so many fans of the setting seem to get so hung up about past cataclysmic events--including those involving the Gods--that they ignore (i.e. miss the cue) that those events are intended to be the conflict-exposition for their PCs to come to the fore and resolve/allay/avenge them.

Then again many people seem to think that the 4E Realms is like the previous editions--where the lore about conflicts/threats/villains is supposed to remain a static permanent ambient note, rather than something your PCs can and are supposed to go in a resolve.
#3
keveras
Jun 24, 2009 5:06:38
Cyric would be a level 35 Solo--as is the standard for the deities in the rules so far--and his most likely role would be Lurker or Skirmisher.

Is the fact that the 4e deities who got stats so far are both at lvl 35 the only thing that makes you think Cyric would be on the same level?

Another fact is that neither Tiamat nor Vecna are greater deities; and the only greater deity who got his own article didn't get stats because his level is too high for the PCs to fight. So imo Cyric won't get stats at all (like core Bane) or he will be on lvl 35 (the highest possible level of a monster for PCs to fight against and still have a chance to win) due to his imprisonment and reduction in power.

I personally envision him as a Level 36 Solo Lurker.
#4
arohkthedark
Jun 24, 2009 15:19:34 Thank you both for the Info.

I haven't read the Dracomicon. So now I have more reasons to get it.

That being said Tiamat (Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have the books in front of me) Isn't he on par with all the other gods in the core though?

I guess it could be argued that there are no Greater or Lesser gods in the Core.
#5
lord_karsus
Jun 24, 2009 21:30:36 -She. Well, technically 'It', I guess.
#6
keveras
Jun 26, 2009 13:28:56
That being said Tiamat (Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have the books in front of me) Isn't he on par with all the other gods in the core though?

I guess it could be argued that there are no Greater or Lesser gods in the Core.

Afaik, in core, there is no classification in greater and lesser deities as it is in the Realms. Al least not yet. But still, just because they're all just deities and not classified in greater and lesser ones doesn't mean they're all on roughly the same level of power.
#7
Mirtek
Jun 28, 2009 14:12:28
Cyric would be a level 35 Solo--as is the standard for the deities in the rules so far

That's correct, but these two are only weaker deities. They explicitly refused to stat Bane in his Dragon article for the very reason of him being a stronger deity which makes his stats way out of leage for any level 30 party to fight and thus pointless to print. Cyric would be of a similiar level and at least a level 39 solo.

@ArohkTheDark
I could imagine the final fight for a campaign against Cyric putting the party against a level 33 or 34 aspect of Cyric (together with some of his angels) whose defeat will foil Cyric's attempt to break his imprisonment and maybe even toughen the terms thus making it harder for him to affect the world.
#8
sfdragon
Jun 28, 2009 20:43:57 that Bane in that article may not be the FR Bane.

comments have been stated similar to what I just typed were said By. Mr Richard Baker before.

but if you want to stat Cyric, take his 3.x stats, subtract 1 stat of choice point per every 4 lvls, then fix it up with the 4e lvl up rules.

hope you have a back door to get into the supreme throne, heard it was under perm lockdown for a 1000 years, so its got 900 left.

you also might want to create or find some ancient Imaskari god killing rituals....
#9
arohkthedark
Jun 29, 2009 11:17:58
hope you have a back door to get into the supreme throne, heard it was under perm lockdown for a 1000 years, so its got 900 left.

you also might want to create or find some ancient Imaskari god killing rituals....

Thats the hard part.
I figure they'd have to get something from one of the gods that locked him up in the first place.

I also figure its going to be more of Challenge for PC's to break into the Supreme Throne then it would to actually fight Cyric.

As for him being defeat-able, Take on a fools task, earn a fools fate. :D
(Edit: that being said. I'm doing this more at the request of players then for the adventure I had originally planned.)

Again, thanks for the info
#10
Mirtek
Jun 29, 2009 17:15:13
that Bane in that article may not be the FR Bane.

comments have been stated similar to what I just typed were said By. Mr Richard Baker before.

Correct. It's even in an extra sidebar in the Dragon article. However this refers to the history, dogma, portfolios and such. The powerlevel should be the same.

We have both Tiamat and Bane in Core and we have both in FR. In Core we know that Tiamat has been statted as lvl 35 solo and that they explicitly stated on the Dragon boars that the Dragon article doesn't contain stats for Bane himself because he would be more powerfull, more powerfull than lvl 30 PCs can face. In FR we have Tiamat as a goddess and Bane as a greater god, so it's the same difference in power between them.
but if you want to stat Cyric, take his 3.x stats, subtract 1 stat of choice point per every 4 lvls, then fix it up with the 4e lvl up rules.

Well, that would make him a lvl 53 solo. At that point PCs won't even be able to crit him anymore on a natural 20 (as a level 39 solo this may still be the number the need to roll to hit him), at that point you can save yourself the trouble and simply call out arbitrary to hit and damage results for him while responding with "you miss" to every attack roll of a player :D
Thats the hard part.
I figure they'd have to get something from one of the gods that locked him up in the first place.

I also figure its going to be more of Challenge for PC's to break into the Supreme Throne then it would to actually fight Cyric.

Sounds as if they open Cyric's route of escape if they fail and he leaves the way they used to enter.

Great follow up campaign: You fools have released Cyric. Get your lazy butts back off the ground as revenenants and fix what you broke ;)
#11
keveras
Jun 30, 2009 4:46:55
Correct. It's even in an extra sidebar in the Dragon article. However this refers to the history, dogma, portfolios and such. The powerlevel should be the same.

We have both Tiamat and Bane in Core and we have both in FR. In Core we know that Tiamat has been statted as lvl 35 solo and that they explicitly stated on the Dragon boars that the Dragon article doesn't contain stats for Bane himself because he would be more powerfull, more powerfull than lvl 30 PCs can face. In FR we have Tiamat as a goddess and Bane as a greater god, so it's the same difference in power between them.

I'm not sure that the power level would be the same. The difference between Core Bane and FR Bane is bigger than the difference of various other multi-spheric deities, like Tiamat, Lolth, or Corellon. Not just for their different appearances or even histories but because they are in and of itself completely different beings. Core Tiamat, on the other hand, is pretty much the same as FR Tiamat, even if their history differs somewhat.
#12
colman
Jun 30, 2009 5:52:01 Hm. Perhaps killing Cyric would be more in the nature of a complex skill challenge than a melee? Some of the PCs distract him - maybe with pointless combat against high level servants - while others do something with the artifact that they'll need to have any chance against him?
#13
Mirtek
Jun 30, 2009 11:28:43
I'm not sure that the power level would be the same. The difference between Core Bane and FR Bane is bigger than the difference of various other multi-spheric deities, like Tiamat, Lolth, or Corellon. Not just for their different appearances or even histories but because they are in and of itself completely different beings. Core Tiamat, on the other hand, is pretty much the same as FR Tiamat, even if their history differs somewhat.

So if Core Tiamat = pretty much FR Tiamat and FR Tiamat < FR Bane that means FR Bane > lvl 35.

And lvl 35 is already hard on the edge of what a normal party can survie.
#14
carbon_dragon
Jul 01, 2009 11:18:36 Unless WotC is going to change their setting to reflect his death, wouldn't he be whatever level is about an epic challenge for the questing players? If the players are on a long term epic level quest to kill him and they are say level 30, then presumably 33 represents a hard encounter and 35 reflects a REALLY hard encounter. so given that it is the end of a whole campaign probably, 35 seems reasonable for 5 characters (and they probably have to have some special doodad that helps them out).

It's all for fun anyway right?
#15
arohkthedark
Jul 01, 2009 12:01:05 Wow thank you all for your Replies

Of Course its gonna be quite while before we get to that point.
(If we get there. The party has already already made a hell of a lot of enemies just in heroic tier alone).

This gives me a lot more to go on then what I had planned initially. And I should be able to make it more interesting.

Thanks
#16
keveras
Jul 01, 2009 14:33:32
So if Core Tiamat = pretty much FR Tiamat and FR Tiamat < FR Bane that means FR Bane > lvl 35.

And lvl 35 is already hard on the edge of what a normal party can survie.

Point is, they're two different guys (who might be on the same lvl - or not).

Anyway, Bane > Tiamat > ... > Vermin > Halflings > Cyric
#17
zsych
Jul 05, 2009 20:30:15 ... or one could seek to recreate the old Imaskari rituals, and IIRC, the Imaskari acquired their knowledge of what gods are and how their powers work by experimenting on clerics in little pocket dimensions, to understand their power, in a place where the god had no influence.

... sounds doable to me
There must be some people who would be willing to help in such an endeavour - Szass Tam who may have to give his soul up to Bane one day, comes to mind as someone who might be willing to help to gain the power needed to take down gods... Considering that he managed to summon and bind Bane's spirit for a while, despite knowing little about the modern ways of magic, one would think he already has a decent start on acquiring knowledge to deal with gods.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 arohkthedark Jun 23, 2009 11:14:11	I've been running a sort of free form game in the Realms as of Late And My players have decided to take quite a disliking to Cyric and now are on a quest to Kill him Does anyone know where I could get a some idea what kind of stats he has and what kind of powers he would use. I had thought about just using Demogorgons powers and Just getting rid of all the Dual actions stuff. Seems to Kinda fit Cyrics style. Any Comments would be Helpful (Evening wacking people with a staff Jokes would bring some humor to the game ;) )
#2 The_Simbul_of_Aglarond Jun 23, 2009 20:48:44	Cyric would be a level 35 Solo--as is the standard for the deities in the rules so far--and his most likely role would be Lurker or Skirmisher. He would of course have all the standard traits a deity possesses in 4E, the foremost including that they cannot be permanently killed unless the PCs complete an epic quest to discover the unique means to destroy a given god. Otherwise they merely discorporate for an indeterminate time when bloodied, usually long enough for the PCs to find the weapon/lore/ritual/spell/conditions needed to destroy them for good--and thus confronting them again on a more even footing. See the entry for Tiamat in the Dracomicon, and the brief on deity rules contained therein for an example. I would imagine of all the gods of Faerûn, that Cyric would be the first we would see statistics for and/or an epic adventure based on confronting or killing him, given the foreshadowing we have seen in the lore so far. The point of his murder of Mystra and his imprisonment was quite clearly (from my perspective at least) the plot set up for the PCs to confront and defeat him. Of course so many fans of the setting seem to get so hung up about past cataclysmic events--including those involving the Gods--that they ignore (i.e. miss the cue) that those events are intended to be the conflict-exposition for their PCs to come to the fore and resolve/allay/avenge them. Then again many people seem to think that the 4E Realms is like the previous editions--where the lore about conflicts/threats/villains is supposed to remain a static permanent ambient note, rather than something your PCs can and are supposed to go in a resolve.
#3 keveras Jun 24, 2009 5:06:38	Cyric would be a level 35 Solo--as is the standard for the deities in the rules so far--and his most likely role would be Lurker or Skirmisher. Is the fact that the 4e deities who got stats so far are both at lvl 35 the only thing that makes you think Cyric would be on the same level? Another fact is that neither Tiamat nor Vecna are greater deities; and the only greater deity who got his own article didn't get stats because his level is too high for the PCs to fight. So imo Cyric won't get stats at all (like core Bane) or he will be on lvl 35 (the highest possible level of a monster for PCs to fight against and still have a chance to win) due to his imprisonment and reduction in power. I personally envision him as a Level 36 Solo Lurker.
#4 arohkthedark Jun 24, 2009 15:19:34	Thank you both for the Info. I haven't read the Dracomicon. So now I have more reasons to get it. That being said Tiamat (Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have the books in front of me) Isn't he on par with all the other gods in the core though? I guess it could be argued that there are no Greater or Lesser gods in the Core.
#5 lord_karsus Jun 24, 2009 21:30:36	-She. Well, technically 'It', I guess.
#6 keveras Jun 26, 2009 13:28:56	That being said Tiamat (Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have the books in front of me) Isn't he on par with all the other gods in the core though? I guess it could be argued that there are no Greater or Lesser gods in the Core. Afaik, in core, there is no classification in greater and lesser deities as it is in the Realms. Al least not yet. But still, just because they're all just deities and not classified in greater and lesser ones doesn't mean they're all on roughly the same level of power.
#7 Mirtek Jun 28, 2009 14:12:28	Cyric would be a level 35 Solo--as is the standard for the deities in the rules so far That's correct, but these two are only weaker deities. They explicitly refused to stat Bane in his Dragon article for the very reason of him being a stronger deity which makes his stats way out of leage for any level 30 party to fight and thus pointless to print. Cyric would be of a similiar level and at least a level 39 solo. @ArohkTheDark I could imagine the final fight for a campaign against Cyric putting the party against a level 33 or 34 aspect of Cyric (together with some of his angels) whose defeat will foil Cyric's attempt to break his imprisonment and maybe even toughen the terms thus making it harder for him to affect the world.
#8 sfdragon Jun 28, 2009 20:43:57	that Bane in that article may not be the FR Bane. comments have been stated similar to what I just typed were said By. Mr Richard Baker before. but if you want to stat Cyric, take his 3.x stats, subtract 1 stat of choice point per every 4 lvls, then fix it up with the 4e lvl up rules. hope you have a back door to get into the supreme throne, heard it was under perm lockdown for a 1000 years, so its got 900 left. you also might want to create or find some ancient Imaskari god killing rituals....
#9 arohkthedark Jun 29, 2009 11:17:58	hope you have a back door to get into the supreme throne, heard it was under perm lockdown for a 1000 years, so its got 900 left. you also might want to create or find some ancient Imaskari god killing rituals.... Thats the hard part. I figure they'd have to get something from one of the gods that locked him up in the first place. I also figure its going to be more of Challenge for PC's to break into the Supreme Throne then it would to actually fight Cyric. As for him being defeat-able, Take on a fools task, earn a fools fate. :D (Edit: that being said. I'm doing this more at the request of players then for the adventure I had originally planned.) Again, thanks for the info
#10 Mirtek Jun 29, 2009 17:15:13	that Bane in that article may not be the FR Bane. comments have been stated similar to what I just typed were said By. Mr Richard Baker before. Correct. It's even in an extra sidebar in the Dragon article. However this refers to the history, dogma, portfolios and such. The powerlevel should be the same. We have both Tiamat and Bane in Core and we have both in FR. In Core we know that Tiamat has been statted as lvl 35 solo and that they explicitly stated on the Dragon boars that the Dragon article doesn't contain stats for Bane himself because he would be more powerfull, more powerfull than lvl 30 PCs can face. In FR we have Tiamat as a goddess and Bane as a greater god, so it's the same difference in power between them. but if you want to stat Cyric, take his 3.x stats, subtract 1 stat of choice point per every 4 lvls, then fix it up with the 4e lvl up rules. Well, that would make him a lvl 53 solo. At that point PCs won't even be able to crit him anymore on a natural 20 (as a level 39 solo this may still be the number the need to roll to hit him), at that point you can save yourself the trouble and simply call out arbitrary to hit and damage results for him while responding with "you miss" to every attack roll of a player :D Thats the hard part. I figure they'd have to get something from one of the gods that locked him up in the first place. I also figure its going to be more of Challenge for PC's to break into the Supreme Throne then it would to actually fight Cyric. Sounds as if they open Cyric's route of escape if they fail and he leaves the way they used to enter. Great follow up campaign: You fools have released Cyric. Get your lazy butts back off the ground as revenenants and fix what you broke ;)
#11 keveras Jun 30, 2009 4:46:55	Correct. It's even in an extra sidebar in the Dragon article. However this refers to the history, dogma, portfolios and such. The powerlevel should be the same. We have both Tiamat and Bane in Core and we have both in FR. In Core we know that Tiamat has been statted as lvl 35 solo and that they explicitly stated on the Dragon boars that the Dragon article doesn't contain stats for Bane himself because he would be more powerfull, more powerfull than lvl 30 PCs can face. In FR we have Tiamat as a goddess and Bane as a greater god, so it's the same difference in power between them. I'm not sure that the power level would be the same. The difference between Core Bane and FR Bane is bigger than the difference of various other multi-spheric deities, like Tiamat, Lolth, or Corellon. Not just for their different appearances or even histories but because they are in and of itself completely different beings. Core Tiamat, on the other hand, is pretty much the same as FR Tiamat, even if their history differs somewhat.
#12 colman Jun 30, 2009 5:52:01	Hm. Perhaps killing Cyric would be more in the nature of a complex skill challenge than a melee? Some of the PCs distract him - maybe with pointless combat against high level servants - while others do something with the artifact that they'll need to have any chance against him?
#13 Mirtek Jun 30, 2009 11:28:43	I'm not sure that the power level would be the same. The difference between Core Bane and FR Bane is bigger than the difference of various other multi-spheric deities, like Tiamat, Lolth, or Corellon. Not just for their different appearances or even histories but because they are in and of itself completely different beings. Core Tiamat, on the other hand, is pretty much the same as FR Tiamat, even if their history differs somewhat. So if Core Tiamat = pretty much FR Tiamat and FR Tiamat < FR Bane that means FR Bane > lvl 35. And lvl 35 is already hard on the edge of what a normal party can survie.
#14 carbon_dragon Jul 01, 2009 11:18:36	Unless WotC is going to change their setting to reflect his death, wouldn't he be whatever level is about an epic challenge for the questing players? If the players are on a long term epic level quest to kill him and they are say level 30, then presumably 33 represents a hard encounter and 35 reflects a REALLY hard encounter. so given that it is the end of a whole campaign probably, 35 seems reasonable for 5 characters (and they probably have to have some special doodad that helps them out). It's all for fun anyway right?
#15 arohkthedark Jul 01, 2009 12:01:05	Wow thank you all for your Replies Of Course its gonna be quite while before we get to that point. (If we get there. The party has already already made a hell of a lot of enemies just in heroic tier alone). This gives me a lot more to go on then what I had planned initially. And I should be able to make it more interesting. Thanks
#16 keveras Jul 01, 2009 14:33:32	So if Core Tiamat = pretty much FR Tiamat and FR Tiamat < FR Bane that means FR Bane > lvl 35. And lvl 35 is already hard on the edge of what a normal party can survie. Point is, they're two different guys (who might be on the same lvl - or not). Anyway, Bane > Tiamat > ... > Vermin > Halflings > Cyric
#17 zsych Jul 05, 2009 20:30:15	... or one could seek to recreate the old Imaskari rituals, and IIRC, the Imaskari acquired their knowledge of what gods are and how their powers work by experimenting on clerics in little pocket dimensions, to understand their power, in a place where the god had no influence. ... sounds doable to me There must be some people who would be willing to help in such an endeavour - Szass Tam who may have to give his soul up to Bane one day, comes to mind as someone who might be willing to help to gain the power needed to take down gods... Considering that he managed to summon and bind Bane's spirit for a while, despite knowing little about the modern ways of magic, one would think he already has a decent start on acquiring knowledge to deal with gods.