What do you miss the most from the Old Realms?
What were you happy to see go?
What are the real differences, not the cosmetic differences between the 3rd edition and 4th edition Realms?
What interests you about the 4th edition Realms?
Are you using the FRCG and FRPG to run a 4th edition Realms game? What has worked for you, and what is not?
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
How have you personalized the 4th edition Realms to suit your needs?
I got a copy of the 4e FRCS if only to see what the whole fuss and bother about it was and I have to say that I rather like the changes that were made from a story-tellers perspective. It introduces radical new changes to a world that needed something in order to break out of the 3.5 setting to adapt to the new edition.
I both agree and disagree with trimming down the pantheons of the Realms in order to make it a bit more coherent: I'm on this big monotheism kick for my homebrew, but I'm a polythiest IRL, so it could go either way for me. I'm not sure I'm a fan of the primordials, though.
I'm not sure how I feel about Abier returning to Toril, and the creation of the earthmotes. In particular because one of the central themes to my homebrew was to have floating landmasses above the continent. So it is in part one of those things where I have to deal with people claming I took it from Wizards'. Likewise, I'm not sure if I enjoy the majority of the geographic changes - the world could have easily gone to wilderness and points of light through more mundane means, but the decimation of the Underdark made me grin.
I like the current lack of Mary-Sue characters running around the realms. I don't have to deal with DMs throwing Eliminster at me to railroad me into playing their setting the way they want me to.
But I don't know. Like I aid I'm not as invested in FR anything as people who consider themselves fans are. I always prefered to play Homebrew since FR was traditionally too bland for me. So as an observer I like how some of the setting changes happened, but can easily see how other people don't like them.
This would be a long list such as Shandaukal, Neverwinter, the Harpers, Luskan, etc etc. But the most important thing is just the feel of the place which survived several edition changes but has now been killed.
What were you happy to see go?
Maztica, Halruaa and Mulrohand. Never really liked them to be honest
What are the real differences, not the cosmetic differences between the 3rd edition and 4th edition Realms?
As I said, the feel is gone. Its no longer a wonderous fantasy setting but is instead a Points of Light setting. The designers, notably Rich Baker and Bruce Cordell, don't understand the Realms that is clear from the book.
What interests you about the 4th edition Realms?
Nothing really. Returned Abeir is decent. I wish that was the only change they made, it would have been great, but of course, they missed the boat.
Are you using the FRCG and FRPG to run a 4th edition Realms game?
not yet. I do like some of the 4e rules with the notable exception being the new magic system.
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
I wish they would bring back the Realms really, barring that, I wish they wouldn't publish anything on it anymore. Its over.
How have you personalized the 4th edition Realms to suit your needs?
I may someday use things like the genasi or the swordmage, but at this point I think I am done with the Realms. It was a good run though
What do you miss the most from the Old Realms?
The uber-powerful NPCs. All of them. Really.
What were you happy to see go?
Nothing, actually, besides some small things here and there. Nearly everything had it's part in Faerun, and that was good.
What are the real differences, not the cosmetic differences between the 3rd edition and 4th edition Realms?
That, with the cancellation of entire countries and pantheons, the feeling is gone. It's not the good ol' Realms anymore, but some new updated Realms, which isn't necessarily bad.
What interests you about the 4th edition Realms?
Probably High Imaskar, Myth Drannor, and Netheril. Something that was already there in previous editions.
Are you using the FRCG and FRPG to run a 4th edition Realms game? What has worked for you, and what is not?
Don't play currently.
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
Fleshed out NPCs and deities.
How have you personalized the 4th edition Realms to suit your needs?
Haven't at all.
What do you miss the most from the Old Realms?
Miss what? Everything I like is still here, in my Realms.
What were you happy to see go?
Nothing goes in my Realms unless I want it to.
What are the real differences, not the cosmetic differences between the 3rd edition and 4th edition Realms?
Fewer interesting, established characters. No Weave or the mythology surrounding it. Goodly NPCs are deemed a liability rather than a potential asset (notice I didn't say "high level"--not all or even most goodly NPCs were of high level).
What interests you about the 4th edition Realms?
Not much, to put it bluntly. I rather like Laerkond (Returned Abeir), but I wouldn't use it in the Realms.
Are you using the FRCG and FRPG to run a 4th edition Realms game?
No.
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
Sadly I can't say I'm hoping to see anything in particular, because "hoping" implies a level of interest that I don't quite feel.
How have you personalized the 4th edition Realms to suit your needs?
N/A
The wealth of current established lore, defined locations, and on going plot threads.
What were you happy to see go?
The wealth of current established lore, defined locations, and on going plot threads. I was very happy to see Mystra go, however not her specifically rather the concept of a God/Goddess of Magic who completely controls access to said power source. It is my suspicion that though Mystra is currently “dead” I see her returning as a Goddess of Magic/Mystic Wisdom/Knowledge just without the all encompassing control previously ascribed to her. I am happy about the reduction of “Epic NPC’s”, not because they were a problem in game, but rather because they were very cookie cutter, poorly thought out, and lacked real personality. In other words they were amalgams of cliché, I think the Realms will be better served with new NPC’s who might lack the feeling of cliché. We will see, but at least now there is hope. I was also very happy to see the cosmology get in line with the core, and that the core is no longer the old cosmology . It always rubbed me the wrong way.
What are the real differences, not the cosmetic differences between the 3rd edition and 4th edition Realms?
I think the real differences between the two is a matter of themes. 3rd Edition Realms was a purely High Fantasy setting which because of certain items I was happy to see go (see above), had over time developed an almost comic book meets soap opera like quality. This is something that took years to come about it did not happen over night, and I blame the novels mostly on bleeding over to the game material.
4th Edition Realms seems to fully integrate a number of subgenres while accentuating its high fantasy roots. Horror, Noir, and Dark Fantasy all are represented in the core of the setting which is different form the past, where it was an afterthought. While FR has always been my choice for High Fantasy, I would often take long vacations from it because it did not handle these sub genres in a natural manner. Another reason this particular edition of the Realms is so compelling for me is that with the new 4th Edition D&D rules I have a medium for representing a wider range of stories that previous editions of D&D did not represent well. This is mostly thanks to the introduction of Rituals which in my mind reflect what the Netherese and Elven High Mages were/are capable of better than any previous attempts.
What interests you about the 4th edition Realms?
It is new and shiny, familiar yet different. Mostly it is a blank slate, and I look forward to tying it in with the Old Realms via all the loose threads that are laying all over the book. I think a lot of people are missing these very clear connections.
Are you using the FRCG and FRPG to run a 4th edition Realms game?
Yes, I am. This is my first FR campaign in a long time.
What has worked for you, and what is not?
So far everything is working fine, but sometimes I have wanted a map of something and resorted to Old Realms materials. Not really a big deal. The best thing is I have been cruising along with next to zero preparation, a reason I think we will be playing this campaign for a long time.
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
More stuff like backdrop Cormyr would be nice. Some NPC write ups (no stat blocks please). Generally some detail, just not so much that we have a bunch of write ups for bartenders in one town, and definitely more maps.
How have you personalized the 4th edition Realms to suit your needs?
Still writing it up but I will stick it in here when finished. So far I have Mystra sacrificing herself to destroy the weave and shadow weave, rather than being slain by Cyric and Shar. She is also eventually due for a return sans weave (always hated the weave). Other changes such as Sembia being less under Netheril’s thumb, i.e. a powder keg waiting for the right kind of spark. Mostly details that have no bearing on the campaign at this point but will, so I have some time.
sehanine moonbow, mystra all the high level npcs, neverwinter, the harpers, moonstars, halruaa
What were you happy to see go?,
mulohaund, unther, the mulohaundi pantheon. matizca,
What are the real differences, not the cosmetic differences between the 3rd
edition and 4th edition Realms?
retruned abeir, magic stuff
What interests you about the 4th edition Realms?
waterdeep, the new blackstaff, the new moonstars, new harpers,
Are you using the FRCG and FRPG to run a 4th edition Realms game? What has worked for you, and what is not? combining of some of the gods
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
more sourcebooks, i dislike ddi
How have you personalized the 4th edition Realms to suit your needs?
hasnt
That said, I'll give it a shot.
What do you miss the most from the Old Realms?
The FR series of regional sourcebooks from the late eighties and early nineties.
What were you happy to see go?
The profusion of gods, particularly the Egyptian and Sumerian pantheons.
What are the real differences, not the cosmetic differences between the 3rd edition and 4th edition Realms?
This is where the games/novels/setting thing is really important. In terms of game playing, the biggest differences--it seems to me--are in the (non-world specific) game system itself. 4th edition D&D is a very different game from all of the versions I've played, and apparently from the 3rd edition rules set as well.
In terms of setting, the biggest "real differences", I think, are all related to the downplaying or elimination of aspects not in the original Gray Box (Maztica, the Shining South, the expanded pantheons).
What interests you about the 4th edition Realms?
Well, part if is "shiny shiny new new," sure, but also the generally wilder, more dangerous feel of the place.
Are you using the FRCG and FRPG to run a 4th edition Realms game? What has worked for you, and what is not?
I am! The regional benefits and backgrounds have been a big boon for my players, I really like the "Threats," and the new classes are primo. I want more and better maps.
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
I'm pretty happy with the currently scheduled line up. Most of my "boots on the ground" time in the Realms is spent with the novels and I like what I've seen from 4E there so far. In terms of gaming, I'm like everybody else in wanting more "Background: Cormyr" style articles for my favorite places.
How have you personalized the 4th edition Realms to suit your needs?
Hmmm, I don't guess using the Dungeon Keep on the Shadowfell FR conversion really counts as personalizing, does it? I guess the main thing I've done is to fill in any blanks I've needed to by doing my own 4E updates of 1/2/3E lore based on published sources from those editions. So far this has mostly consisted of working out some details in individual character backgrounds.
Quality
What were you happy to see go?
Nothing
What are the real differences, not the cosmetic differences between the 3rd edition and 4th edition Realms?
Quality
What interests you about the 4th edition Realms?
The fact that I can make-up whatever I want now
Are you using the FRCG and FRPG to run a 4th edition Realms game?
Using, yes... running a game? No
What has worked for you, and what is not?
The warlock Knights of Vassa and breaking Chult off the main continent. What hasn't worked? Getting rid of Halruaa just seemed like spite on someone's part, and I'm still trying to figure out exactly what purpose Retrurned Abeir serves in the Realms.
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
An apology and a retraction... and some 'pinkslips'.
How have you personalized the 4th edition Realms to suit your needs?
I added detail to it - something completely lacking in the canon lore.
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
An apology and a retraction... and some 'pinkslips'.
couldn't agree more
and I'm still trying to figure out exactly what purpose Retrurned Abeir serves in the Realms.
Cordell is on the writing team. Thus there were going to be Aboleths, slimy things with tentacles, and more stuff along those lines. Pet concepts needed rationale for their inclusion, so a lot of stuff appearing with the Spellplague seems to have been a conveniant way to stuff them into the mix if they weren't there before - see Dragonborn, core 4e cosmology, etc ad nauseum.
That said, I've rather enjoyed a large amount of Bruce Cordell's past material, and his Guide to the Ethereal Plane was one of my favorite 2e books. But it was a mistake IMO to have him as a major player in the 4e Realms design (among one or two others).
Meh. Nothing really.
What were you happy to see go?
The hundreds of gods that were not only unneeded but unnecessary.
What are the real differences, not the cosmetic differences between the 3rd edition and 4th edition Realms?
Interest factor for me (3E Realms were just...blargh). There is now enough room for me and my PCs to breathe, and to create, modify and twist at will without feeling like I've desecrated some tucked-away Realms lore.
What interests you about the 4th edition Realms?
Spellplague, murder of Mystra (like we reeeeally needed her anyway, right?), Empire of Netheril, High Imaskar, Nathalan, Djerad Thymar.
Are you using the FRCG and FRPG to run a 4th edition Realms game? What has worked for you, and what is not?
Yep. Pretty much everything has worked for me, except for the occasional person that will be heatedly anti-4E or anti-4E Realms.
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
KARA-TUR.
How have you personalized the 4th edition Realms to suit your needs?
Well, I did like the 3E Realms a little bit, so I modified the lore in such a way some hardcore fans would be baffled. Amn and Tethyr having a European African race-style scramble for colonies spread throughout the world. Preventing of the spellplague, Mulhorand conquering and assimilating Thay, Unther, and Chessenta, Zhent mercenaries becoming good guys, Drizzt dying, Shou Lung invasion of Faerun...ye know. Using 3E Realms lore to 4E rules.
For the most part though, I stick to 4E Realms.
Interest factor for me (3E Realms were just...blargh). There is now enough room for me and my PCs to breathe, and to create, modify and twist at will without feeling like I've desecrated some tucked-away Realms lore.
I didn't want to respond to anyone here, but your answer has me a bit puzzled. If you didn't really like the Realms as it was before (pre-4E), then why would you be concerned over whether or not you were about to "desecrate some tucked-away Realmslore"?
And then consider the PCs who INSIST I stay true to Realms lore and such. In 4E, they usually go along with it (most of them anyway...darn you Lucy -.-)
I don't know. It just seems...weird. I'm aware that there are hundreds upon hundreds of novels for it, and the FRCS book was HUGE. I didn't want to consult the book everytime my characters interacted with something.
And then consider the PCs who INSIST I stay true to Realms lore and such. In 4E, they usually go along with it (most of them anyway...darn you Lucy -.-)
Well, as you yourself said in another thread, it's your world (and when you are the DM what you say goes), so, that's my opinion.
I don't know. It just seems...weird. I'm aware that there are hundreds upon hundreds of novels for it, and the FRCS book was HUGE. I didn't want to consult the book everytime my characters interacted with something.
And then consider the PCs who INSIST I stay true to Realms lore and such. In 4E, they usually go along with it (most of them anyway...darn you Lucy -.-)
just play in a "less fill" setting then
Well, as you yourself said in another thread, it's your world (and when you are the DM what you say goes), so, that's my opinion.
The thing I don't understand is...I hear/read people say this stuff all the time that it doesn't matter; that it's your world. But it gets to the point that you're diverging far too much from the written, introducing too many ideas or radical departures, that it is no longer FR(InsertotherCShere) or even a close FR(InsertotherCShere) Clone. Why bother claiming you play in X campaign setting if your setting uses very little of the original CS for foundation?
I understand the desire to want to play in a game setting, and to personalize it. But if you're playing 4e FR, but Abeir never showed up, and the Spellplague never happened, are you really playing 4e FR, two of the biggest concepts of the revised setting? I mean, I have a friend who realized how far off his Rokugan-clone setting has strayed that he effectively ditched all but the most superficial alliegances to the setting and renamed it something originalish. I mean, no, its not a homebrew in that it can be produced without infringing on AEG's property, but it's not Rokugan anymore, either.
I guess there are varying degrees of drift, I'm not sure. Maybe I'm just musing to myself, contemplating how these random cosmological anomalies (each person's version of the core setting as different planes and mirror/parallel realms) would exist and when they no longer are classified under the original CS' umbrella.
What do you miss the most from the Old Realms?
I hate to say it but the prolific NPC's the previous 20+ years of the realms when you come right down to it still dealt with essentially the same 'infamous' NPC's Mirt, El, Drizzt, Craulnober, Azoun, etc it was had a lot of history right there even if FR time is like comic book time.
What were you happy to see go?
The 50+ overabundant gods, finally Corellon is in charge of the feywild, every other 'cute' mostly human humoid is his b###ch, nuff said. Sure some of the deities I liked are gone but that is the price you pay for some cohension. I hated Mystra for the most part but talk about a death from the book of 'Good is Dumb!' she was shafted in way even I think was bit harsh.
What are the real differences, not the cosmetic differences between the 3rd edition and 4th edition Realms?
While I understand the concept of coming up with encounters quickly, 4E is too new to see just how much you can customize your NPC's, to be honest. 4E Szam has stuff that isn't in any other book so far other than standard lich stats. 3.X allowed more more room to put real flavor and crunch to NPCs.
What interests you about the 4th edition Realms?
Only the 100 year flash forward currently, still too new.
Are you using the FRCG and FRPG to run a 4th edition Realms game? What has worked for you, and what is not?
Nothing yet
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
KARA-FREAKIN-TUR You can't ignore fan demands forever.
How have you personalized the 4th edition Realms to suit your needs?
Not yet still trying to get to all work out.
The large detailed world, many of the gods. The Weave.
What were you happy to see go?
Harpers
What are the real differences, not the cosmetic differences between the 3rd edition and 4th edition Realms?
It feels like the generic Points of Light setting for the Core 4e books. I wanted FR, not PoL.
What interests you about the 4th edition Realms?
Returned Abeir I guess.
Are you using the FRCG and FRPG to run a 4th edition Realms game? What has worked for you, and what is not?
3e FR book, yes. I do use the FRPG though, very useful Core book.
What do you hope to see produced by WOTC for the 4th edition Realms?
Considering there won't be any more splats, and DDi is a waste at the moment for me, I could care less what WotC does.
How have you personalized the 4th edition Realms to suit your needs?
I threw it out and use the 3e Realms.
Cordell is on the writing team. Thus there were going to be Aboleths, slimy things with tentacles, and more stuff along those lines. Pet concepts needed rationale for their inclusion, so a lot of stuff appearing with the Spellplague seems to have been a conveniant way to stuff them into the mix if they weren't there before - see Dragonborn, core 4e cosmology, etc ad nauseum.
But my point is that Returned Abeir isn't really all that different Faerûn. If it was a dark continent full of tentacled horrors and all sorts of aberrational critters like Aboleths, Beholders Hives, and Illithids I could completely understand it's inclusion. Heck, I would have even welcomed Eberron's Delkyr over the more-of-the-same we ended up with.
Not that it wasn't quality Ed-stuff, but it was WAY too similar to what we allready have. What, exactly, would be a character's motivation to go there?
It's a bunch of medieval-cultured countries with their own little problems - How is that different from the Realms? I almost wish it was some Cthulhuesque Realm - as of right now I don't understand why they would include something that sounds like they could have just tacked it into Faerûn-proper and no-one would ahave even noticed anything strange. It's kinda like moving to Canada because you are bored with the United States.
That said, I've rather enjoyed a large amount of Bruce Cordell's past material, and his Guide to the Ethereal Plane was one of my favorite 2e books. But it was a mistake IMO to have him as a major player in the 4e Realms design (among one or two others).
Agreed.
Bruce Cordell is a fantastic designer, and I loved all of his 2e stuff.
I just don't think he should have been a 'front man' for the FR design team - as much as I hate to say it about him, it's like he was completely clueless when it came to FR.
The thing I don't understand is...I hear/read people say this stuff all the time that it doesn't matter; that it's your world. But it gets to the point that you're diverging far too much from the written, introducing too many ideas or radical departures, that it is no longer FR(InsertotherCShere) or even a close FR(InsertotherCShere) Clone.
Well, needless to say, that "point" that you mention is different for each person.
Why bother claiming you play in X campaign setting if your setting uses very little of the original CS for foundation?
The sourcebooks themselves acknowledge that they are meant to be a baseline and that DMs should feel free to change whatever they like. Changing things that you don't like doesn't necessary mean you are "using very little of the original CS", either. There is plenty of middle ground there.
Miss what? Everything I like is still here, in my Realms.
I don't think you are looking hard enough
A common comment appears to be that the Realms no longer feel like the Realms. So my question is what do the Realms feel like? What makes something Realmsian, and something else not?
Another comment that appeared more than once was a general missing of Mystra and the Weave, and also a happiness they are gone. So in your opinion what did Mystra bring to the table? What did the Weave bring to the table? Please explain why these things make you either for having the element included, or for having it removed.
The old Realms seems to me to be much more integrated than the new. There are great trade routes across the world; people, goods and ideas move around (more or less) freely; that gives me countless DMing opportunities. I don't like the limitations that in my opinion come with the PoL setting; while I know that a lot of people like PoL, it's not for me.
Using an analogy, for me the old Realms feels like a finely crafted watch, while the new Realms feels like a Meccano set.
*I do mean the old Mystra as in my Realms the Time of Troubles never happened.
All of the above is solely my opinion, I'm speaking for no-one but myself.
Seriously though, there's no way to answer as to what the Realms really feels like, at least not objectively unless you're saying "Whatever WotC says is Realmsian". Everything else is going to be subjective, simply by the nature of the question.
Same with the Mystra equation. Personally, I felt she was a unique entity that gave the Realms a character unlike any other setting, which pretty much went for the Weave as well. Made things different enough so that if you dealt with magic, you couldn't help but know you were in the Realms, even if only in your own head. I liked that personally, despite absolutely hating the Shadow Weave, which I felt was an ill-fitting concept to stick in there for reasons I'm not sure I can articulate. Obviously, my point of view did not resonate with the 4e Realms team however, so... yeah.
A common comment appears to be that the Realms no longer feel like the Realms. So my question is what do the Realms feel like? What makes something Realmsian, and something else not?
simply put, a deep well of lore in a shared world
Another comment that appeared more than once was a general missing of Mystra and the Weave, and also a happiness they are gone. So in your opinion what did Mystra bring to the table? What did the Weave bring to the table? Please explain why these things make you either for having the element included, or for having it removed.
-An explanation, of sorts, as to the existence of magic, asides for the "It's magic, don't worry about it" hand wave.