In their GenCon seminar, WotC announced that they have no plans to release a 5e FRCG and that they will only put out adventures and novels (I guess mostly Drizzt, Elminster and some Farideh).
Well, this is a huge disappointment. It means that we will get no consistent lore about the Realms in 5e, and no cohesive update on the changes brought by the Sundering, on the lands, organizations, cities and deities (the DMG will probably include the gods that didn't make it in the PHB, like the racial pantheons, or so I hope), only hints/lore bits scattered among modules and novels. So much for their ''FR support''.
Really, way to kill the setting. What a let down 
EDIT: source: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19464
EDIT2: According to one of the posters in this thread -who attended the seminar- Mearls gave an ETA of 1-2 years for a FRCG. Also, this is what he said
Irennan wrote:
LordManshoon wrote:
Yeah, that's the second time I've lost posts today. It's getting a bit frustrating; especially after losing 800+ posts off my post count earlier in the week. I suspected the first thread may have been stealth-moderated, which has never happened to a single post of mine in 8 years. A "hiccup" is more palatable.
I won't pour out my nerd hurt and disappointment to the same degree this post. I am extremely disappointed in this decision, and hope they reconsider. I don't think the Realms can be done justice in this fashion, with its fractured fan base and the muddied state of the Realms.
I'm disappointed enough that, for now, I won't be following the Tyranny of Dragons adventures. I'll lurk and gather info, and maybe buy them if they end up being "can't miss" adventures. I've cancelled my preorders and will wait and see.
The Realms fans I know play and DM therein for the deep lore and the setting that lore creates. The Spellplague invalidated a lot of lore, and I don't feel this plan will sufficiently elucidate the current state of the Realms. That being the case, my enthusiasm for the post-Sundering Realms has taken a steep dive, from "very excited" to "what? why bother?".
Mentally, I think I'm going to shift gears to another setting, for a time, be that Eberron, Athas or one of my two homebrew settings. One of those homebrews is still more of a concept, so maybe I'll spend some time on that, for now.
I am most disappointed.
No FRCG and only novels by Ed, Bob, and Erin? So so dissapointing. I was actually going to play 5E and was excited for it. But now I think I'm going to cancel my players handbook order from Amaon. 
I'm floored.
I was excited by the news of the Sundering and fixing the Realms and 5E coming out.
I feel like a balloon that has had an unfortunate run in with a needle.
I don't understand at all them deciding to do nothing.
Makes no sense.
Wow... that's kinda funny actually. Guess 4e left them with a really bad taste in their mouths for campaign setting books... if they don't put one out though, we can't rip into them the way that we did over 4e though, so it does make sense in a weird sort of way.
Stigger wrote:
Mike Mearl clarifies:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?358294-No-Forgotten-Realms-Campaign-Setting-in-development/page5&p=6362108&viewfull=1#post6362108
so its after the dmg.....
yeah okay maybe
that also said.... see you in Golarion...... will not buy the 5e phb until aid timne the frcs is made and released.
so there.....
Mattias wrote:
Hmmm.....OK. But what about the novels? Will we get more than 3 authors?
Caolin wrote:
Since it's being taled about, does anyone know what the "present" year for 5th edition FR is? ToD is clearly introducing a way for WotC to fix the changes made during the last edition of FR.
Nope. That's one of many gripes. However, Skerrit, an official playtester and organized play "dude" (real term is alluding me ;) ) says it's 1489 DR. That's 10 years later than the 4E FRCG.
There is actually another thread about this on this page, if you are looking for a better trail back to my source.
Im not too saddened by this. It just means I can if i run home games dig out my 2nd AD&D FR boxed set and use it.
This current decision has made no difference at all to my goal of purchasing a Next PHB. None at all.
Promise? The haven't announced any novels beyond Rise of the Kind and Fire in the Blood.
Caolin wrote:
Elaine Cunningham at the start of 4e/end of 3e would probably have been on such a list... Don't have much trust of WotC these days I'm sad to say.
LordManshoon wrote:
Chris_Lee66 wrote:
Stigger wrote:
Yeah, I sort of understand the logic of "there is so much information about this place that the surplus of information is making it hard for some people to play, so we should massively reduce that information." I don't understand what is wrong with those people, of course, since it isn't like Ed Greenwood has secret police that monitor whether you are 'obeying' all the realms info, but whatever. Still though, there are two major (and related) problems with this:
1) the only way you would feel stifled by the presence of so much information is if you actually cared about that information to the point of regarding it as sacred, and if that's true, then eliminating that information is not going to be unproblematic; and
2) every setting has something that distinguishes it. The thing that distinguishes FR from a generic fantasy locale, more than anything else, is that there is so much information available. What they did would be like publishing a planescape book but eliminating planar travel, or a birthright book but eliminating domain ownership.
Given that, the reaction seems absolutely predictable.
My sense is that at WoTC, you get one or two charismatic people in leadership positions who come up with an idea, and then everyone else accepts it as gospel and follows it without question, quarrel, or opposition. You can see it in the keywords that reappear again and again when game designers are staying 'on message.' My feeling is that some idiot decided that FR needed to be nuked in order to be playable, and for whatever reason no one (or at least no one with any authority) pushed back at all.
the idea of nuking a setting to make it more acessable has been something not unique to WOTC, you've seen it a fair bit over the past ten years, when Wizkids aquired Battletech from FASA their first action was a "let's nuke everything and time jump to make it more accessable" white wolf did something similer with world of darkness. other settings have been doing the same. and in EVERY CASE IT'S BACKFIRED. far from bringing in new people, it's made the popularity of the setting take a nose dive.
BrianCritchley wrote:
BrianCritchley wrote:
Yeah, same here with the Forbidden Lore of Volo, they are easily my favorite sourcebooks. My only real complaint is that there aren't more of them.
yeah I'm of the opinion one of the mistakes WOTC amde during the 2nd to third edition transition was that of "voice" all the 2nd edition FR SBs I read all had the advantage of being written in character (often by Elminister) that allowed GMs a lot more wiggle room and allowed the writers a lot more wiggle room. as they could always retcon it as "well turns out he was mistakening"
I also really liked the volo's guide. Like Gwathir it’s probably the sourcebooks I used the most in my campaigns.
I hope to see some new 'Volo's guides' for the 5th edition of the Realms.
I have to agree with the posters here that state, while not having a FRCS for 5e anytime soon is a little saddening, it certainly isn't show-stopping, especially considering making the jump to 5e.
There is a huge wealth of system neutral information that with a little creativity can be tweaked as needed for whatever you happen to doing. Creativity is the heart of this game, not adhereance to the "canon" of any campaign setting. As a DM I take my players through stuff all the time in FR that isn't "canon" to any existing information, and I don't care. It helps MY story and they have fun.
I've only had a small handful of players that squaked the inevitble "but but but on page 23, paragraph 12 of....." and my response "and your point is?" 
ChaoticN00b wrote:
Too me it just feels as though there is something missing. They made this huge hype about the Sundering for the past two years and then there is just silence.
Literally, their new storyline (Tyranny of Dragons) is completely era neutral other then a few references to the so-called 'power-vaccum', its almost as if they no longer acknowledge the Sundering even happened.
And I understand they are limited on staff so they can't focus on the FRCS right now, but I don't undertand why they couldn't continue to release mini adventures like Murder in Baldur's Gate and Legacy of the Crystal Shard in order to keep us in the loop. Even the novels are moving away from the Sundering.
Gwathir wrote:
Why would anyone buy a post-4e, post-Sundering FRCG if they hated 4E in the first place? They know it won't sell, so of course they're not going to print one.
The Realms is now solely a novels setting. It stopped being a gaming world with the 4E FRCG.
Jorunhast wrote:
BrianCritchley wrote:
Jorunhast wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
BrianCritchley wrote:
Stigger wrote:
Chiisai_Usagi wrote:
Jorunhast wrote:
Chiisai_Usagi wrote:
BrianCritchley wrote:
Jorunhast wrote:
Thank you for expounding on that, Jorunhast, and I apologize for where I misrepresented you. It seems that the main commonality I see is a sense of distaste towards how much novel control was given, particularly in the late 3E era. I remember when the Realms was much more open it was and how much smaller in scope the novels were. Even things like Moander's return in Azure Bonds was, relatively speaking, small potatoes (and I was first drawn to the Realms by Alias' and Cat Wyvernspur's stories), and yes, they did get way out of hand. I think I see something in the different opinions here, and that is that one camp (to borrow a term used on the GD forum) feels obliterating so much was too much, and the other doesn't. FWIW, I can completely understand those who feel it was too much. As another poster mentioned, a lot of local history was tied into the Realms and that was a big facet of it. It's hard reimagining how some of the longer-lasting places still look today, from High Horn to the Twisted Tower to Jhaele's Inn. There's much less to latch onto in terms of local names and color in many respects, and those things can be important.
But I wonder how else one could have removed all the density of the stories, the nigh-unbeatable NPC's, the invulnerable plot armor and so on without doing some kind of megadestruction? Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough, but I have trouble seeing how all it could have been done. I won't presume that it's impossible, just impossible for me to see. And I think that's why I can at least accept, if not necessarily with complete enthusiasm, what all was done.
At any rate, I'm looking forward to seeing what they can come up with. I do hope the Sundering isn't a prelude to another round of novel control, though, and I'm afraid it might be. Still, I remain hopeful and until then, I'm slowly molding my 4E Realms game into an updated version based on tthe few events I know happens.
Current information on Phlan: http://dndadventurersleague.org/tyranny-of-dragons-premier-adventures/phlan-during-tyranny-of-dragons/
Chiisai_Usagi wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
I think they could've done a really fun and fascinating reboot in the style of JJ Abrams new Star Trek, just better and without dopey plots and McGuffins like red matter (or whatever).
During 4E, Mystra was effectively dead, though we know she survived as a vestige or something similar by inhabiting a bear. Why a bear, of all things? Oh well, derp derp, not important. During this time of dead-vestige-ness, her sphere of influence was rather uncontrolled and unmonitored, so they say.
The important thing for this is that Mystra was the primary block against time travel having any real or enduring effects. She allowed people to do time travel, but always let them live out the past in their own unique "time bubble" that had no actual effect on the main timeline.
What if, during 4E, things became SO bad for prior Mystrans that they (maybe including Elminster and the Simbul) decided to break Mystra's ban on real time travel and actually used one of the existing Time Gates to travel to a key point in the past and CHANGE ALL THE THINGS. The key point to do this, considering that a living Mystra or Mystryl in the past would also block efforts to change the timeline, would have been during the Time of Troubles! Mystra was briefly mortal, not in full possession of her complete powers or full control.
Primary objective: stop Mystra from being an idiot and trying to ascend the Celestial Stair. Helm then doesn't kill her. Convince Mystra that her mortality is a huge danger, and that she should have at least half a brain and use her mortal servants to accomplish secondary objectives like: killing that mortal idiot Cyric before he obtains the god-killing sword (aka Mask's avatar), preventing his ascension entirely.
Not only does this allow for a VERY different outcome for the Time of Troubles (no need for Midnight, Kelemvor, or Cyric to ascend, while also saving Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul... maybe the latter three are slapped on the hand by AO), it also prevents Shar from becoming overly powerful in 3rd edition, prevents the Spellplague entirely, and means you have no "need" for a Sundering because Abeir is still happily in some other phased dimension doing its own thing.
We KNOW that there are excellent authors that could accomplish this, and executing it properly without a lot of cheese would be essential. But if it was handled by, let's say, Erin Evans, Elaine Cunningham, or Paul Kemp, you're guaranteed a great character-driven story (maybe even a trilogy or bigger) while also having a reboot. You could then take things up from either 1E, 2E or 3E, and just make a chart showing what things did not change and what things did not happen.
At the same time, nothing is actually truly retconned from our perspective - all the things that happened, they DID happen. It's just that this new alternate reality becomes the true "prime" reality. All that rich, wonderful NPC and location development over 20+ years by Greenwood is preserved. Jhaele's Inn, people, buildings, businesses, and so on, they're all current and live.
Some people might not like this kind of reboot, but I think it's one way for people to have their cake and eat it too. The events through 4E did happen, but they could be changed using a truly unique double loophole involving two points when Mystra wasn't in full control of Time.
Jorunhast wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
You know Jorunhast, that reboot idea of yours up there in #55 is actually kind of an awesome idea I might have to appropriate if I ever run another Realms campaign...
Jorunhast wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
Only WotC might know that,
Mirtek wrote:
Stigger wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
Kelemvor is the most boring deity in the entire list of deities, IMO. His benevolent, passive approach to death holds zero fear for common people, and this is supposed to be a medieval / renaissance type of society in many ways. Nothing about Kelemvor is interesting. Comforting, perhaps, passionless, but not remotely interesting.
Jorunhast wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
BrianCritchley wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Jorunhast wrote:
Jorunhast wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Time well tell in regards to how a soft reboot like the sundering would compare to a harder reboot which would erase the 4E timeline. I'm just going to vote with my wallet and will not be buying to much of the new Realms stuff beyond adventures. The Realms is already dead to me after 4E so if enough people agree with me they have to reboot or kill the relams so either way I am no worse off than what I already have.
Jorunhast wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
I'm with Jorunhast and Irennan and the old grognards on this. I have absolutely no trust in WoTC's ability to deliver anything of quality any more. I was never a fan of the novels pre 4E and although i never purchased or read them i did include most of the events.
As 3E continued the novels became more and more ridiculous with places being wiped out, then rebuilt with artefacts, people dying and being resurrected, and most of all munchkins roaming everywhere and saving the world from increasingly improbable bad guys and world ending events. For instance that Cyric temple fortress in Amn must have been destroyed 3 times in one year and rebuilt with previously unknown artefacts so that it was exactly the same.
The novels began wrecking the sandbox and the beleaguered game designers had to come up with increasingly incredulous ways to preserve a modicum of status quo so that i could continue to run games in it.
I purchased every single 1E, 2E, and 3E sourcebook, adventure, and supplement ever released for the forgotten realms and i used almost all of them (except possibly Desert of Desolation). As of 4E i flicked through the campaign setting and purchased nothing ever since. I found nothing of quality or value in the entire 4E line. I have similarly found nothing in the bland and generic 5E line so far.
I will purchase nothing FR related until there is a reboot simply because i dont like what they are producing. I am the consumer and I do not have to buy substandard, generic, garbage (i can make better stuff myself). I wonder which camp WoTC will choose, new timeline or old, it can't have both because people are not going to buy what they do not like.
If a well known confectionary producer suddenly altered its line and released a new product that tasted completely different they should probably be prepared for many of the people that liked the old product to not like the new one. If they try to compromise by putting the new product in the wrapper of the old product that isnt going to appease the customers that liked the old product. Well i dont like whats inside the wrapper of 5E (even if the wrapper does look identical to 3E), if they want my money they need to give me back the old product otherwise i will spend my money on something i do like.
It will be interesting to see which camp wins. Reboot or no-Reboot. I'm putting my money on Reboot.
Oh and i love the JJ Abrams idea. I'm fine with WoTC releasing two versions of FR, with two separate timelines. I would only purchase the pre spellplague stuff. I wonder is there a way to contact WoTC to tell them about how much i want a reboot, not that i think they will listen (they havent so far).
dazzlerdal wrote:
You can also send an e-mail to first name dot last name at wizards dot com. There's a chance that they might even answer you, Perkins did so with me when I wrote to him about Eilistraee and the drow.
dazzlerdal wrote:
Well WoTC have done world shattering events for several campaign settings in the past. Dragonlance and Darksun both had one or more world shattering events that didnt go down well with the fan base and were eventually undone, unfortunately the settings did not survive because the damage was already done. A similar thing will likely happen with the FR brand with or without the novel sales. They will either reboot it sooner or later (depending on how much of a failure 5E is) or they will farm out the IP completely to a third party.
Of course this is all just conjecture and opinion on my part, but 4E failed probably because of poor sales (why else would you discontinue a product if it wasnt selling well). 5E is an attempt to increase sales by getting the old fans who abandoned the setting to come back. Unfortunately it hasnt worked for me, Irennan, Jorunhast, or anyone else i know that liked the pre spellplague realms. Ergo 5E will fail for the same reason 4E failed, poor sales (or at least what Hasbro consider poor sales).
What happens after that who knows. If WoTC abandon the IP then another company is bound to pick it up and then there will be a reboot. If WoTC contract out the IP to a third party then there will probably be a reboot. If they decide to continue with the IP themselves then having tried a radical change, and dressing up the radical change in another dress, then the only thing left is to try a reboot and see if that gets them the sales they want.
Personally i think the problem is that Hasbro's perception of what the sales should be is unrealistic. DnD is never going to be a mainstream form of entertainment, it is a niche product and should be treated as such.
Time will tell i guess. I just hope i am right.
Well, personally, I'm still waiting for the FRCS. I'd prefer a reboot, but if the full extent of the changes brought by the Sundering restored the organizations/lands/deities that were removed from the Realms, and if after that RSE WotC mostly left it and all the other cataclysms as a footnote in the past, focusing on enriching and giving depth to the setting (and hopefully also connecting the present to previous, pre-4E history), then I would buy their stuff again.
dazzlerdal wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
Irennan wrote:
dazzlerdal wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
I can kind of see where Mirtek is coming from (if i understand him correctly). By WoTC merging FR into the core D&D line they were trying to make it so that they didnt have to keep producing separate products for core D&D and for FR (thereby reducing their costs). Unfortunately it was a bad plan from the start that obviously backfired. The people that like D&D but didnt like the complexity of FR still like D&D and probably quite like the new flavour of FR (although they may have lost some of the core D&D fans as well). Those that did like old FR for its complexity are at best split 50/50 as to whether they like the new FR or not (i actually think its more of a 70/30 split in favour of old FR).
So the results of WoTC's plan to reduce costs has been that they retain most of the core D&D fans but lost 50% of the FR fans, and i doubt they gained many new sales because D&D is still a niche product spread by word of mouth. They have now cut their costs by eliminating or merging entire product lines (Core D&D and FR notably but probably including the other campaign settings) so for them it is probably a slight plus point. However like all businesses i reckon they have some pretty unrealistic sales figures from their overlords and so unless 5E corners the market the project will still be viewed as a failure.
Here is what should have happened. They should have continued with the separate settings and instead changed their business model, using Kickstarter to provide funds to cover the costs of the sourcebooks people wanted (and contributed to on Kickstarter). That way they could have rolled out 4E and 5E as a core product as always without destroying any of their other product lines. It was a poorly thought out plan by backwards thinking executives that are unable or unwilling to move with the times. They could have had sales from a Dragonlane, Eberron, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Darksun, Ravenloft, and Planescape settings without having to pay anything to produce the products to sell. Now they have no campaign settings and everything is riding on the success of 5E.
Many companies are trying to reduce their costs these days and get everyone onto a single product. The problem is this is known as putting all your eggs in one basket, when someone trips up with the basket you lose everything.
So the question is, has 5E been the success that WoTC want. Have they ramped up production to take advantage of the renewed interest in D&D. Are they taking back their market share from Pathfinder and all the other competitors that emerged as they ran out of steam with 3E. If the answer is yes to the above then FR will probably remain the default core setting with its bland, plug and play, generic background.
If the answer is no to the above then 5E will probably be ditched like 4E (under orders from the Hasbro overlords) and FR will be abandoned like Planescape, Dragonlance, Darksun, Ravenloft, Mystara, Birthright, etc, and if we are lucky it will get an independent company contracted to look after it like Ravenloft (in which case we get a reboot) or it will get a fan following product good quality stuff like Planescape (and we get a reboot).
I think the latter will happen. WoTC are not steaming ahead with new products like they did with 4E or 3E and people will lose interest. People are already finding problems with the new system and are also waiting to see what Pathfinder does in response, or they are canibalising 5E for their own alternate or homebrew systems. Nobody really cares about the FR setting included with 5E because it is so generic (it is indistinguishable from the Nentir Vale of 4E or the core world of 3E), nobody buys 5E because of the FR logo, they are buying it for the new rules. WoTC have already tripped with the basket, we are just waiting for the eggs to smash.
I don't think that if 5E fails to please Hasbro, WotC will do a reboot/relaunch of its settings. Sadly, as you said, I think that Hasbro may want a bit too much from D&D and they will likely decide to throw it out of the window altogether and focus on that card game (which is the main source of income for WotC), if they don't get what they want.
Currently it doesn't seem to be the case, as the PHB was a big success, but if they keep releasing nothing or releasing at this extremely slow pace, if compared to their competitors, then the hype and the cool/novelty factor will fizzle out and sales will start to go down.
I think it's a bit early to judge FR in 5th edition yet, we know almost nothing of the direction they're taking. dimissing what we've gotten so far as "bland and generic" is absolutly insane. we've gotten thus far, the PHB, the Monster manual and one adventure. I'd argue we'll not have even seen the "full release" of 5th edition until the DMG in december. the core books are ALWAYS fairly generic cause well.. thats their job. (that said the 5th ed PHB had more "flavor text" in it then the old PHB did IMHO) so really we've only gotten one adventure so far. and I'd argue irregardless of setting the first adventure can always be counted on to be pretty generic. TLDR, it's too early to say one thing or another. it sounds like the sundering is a pretty major reboot all told. let's wait and see how big a one it is. my guess is that things will mostly shift back to a 1E and 2E style realms. while they keep any changes to absicly stuff "Ed Greenwood thinks is actually a good idea" I can see a lotta the spell plague damage in never winter remaining as WOTC may have some contractual obligations to cryptic in that regard
Mirtek wrote:
How would people feel about sourcebooks/adventures set in different times? For example an adventure/sourcebook set in 1354DR, another in 1374DR, or even a return to the Arcane Age idea, with a revamped Netheril product and other options like Shanatar or Narfell/Raumathar?
-- George Krashos
Sourcebooks I'd be more than fine with, and truly hope that approach is used, though as I don't use adventures, I can't say those would interest me much.
I think the Realms' biggest problem is an excess of World-Shattering Cataclysms. One-plus for each major rules edition, so far. (By contrast, Gamma World and Pathfinder's Golarion both assume One Big Event and the "present day" is during the time when basic civilization has recovered but the former heights have not yet been re-attained.) The Realms also has an excess of characters such as Szass Tam who are so overpowered that they should have conquered the globe and re-made it into their own image long ago, but inexplicably keep getting diverted into trifles instead.
I've not invested enough time and resources into tracking the whole thing out, so I can't offer "obviously good" advice. I will put these suggestions forward:
- More tough guys who are beatable, fewer "to stand against me is hopeless" I like growing strong enough to tackle Hercules, not trying to fight Zeus (or Szass Tam).
- The various evil gods of Death and Killing need to take each other out. Like Highlander, "there can be only one!"
- Mystra, goddess of magic, keeps getting killed. Doesn't she USE the divination spells she grants others? Can't she see stuff coming and counter-plan?
- On that same vein, shouldn't the other gods be talking to Mystra when THEY see a problem coming her way? Especially one that will interfere with their plans too? They KNOW she's fragile...
- I like opponents, like Netheril, whose psychology simultaneously makes them dangerous and credible and offers a flaw in their plans to exploit.
- Some threats should wax and wane over time. Ex: in 1200 Cult of the Dragon cells were everywhere, then they picked a fight and got smashed. By 1250 it felt like Bhaal cultists were in the ascendant.
- Do not try to fit every D&D rule into the Realms somewhere. Ed didn't use psionics or minotaurs, to give Dark Sun and DragonLance a unique shtick. He was wise in this.
Good advice there BRJN, doubtful WotC will listen, but they should...
I don't understand the point of doing the Sundering if they weren't going to follow up with something...
What's WOTC's plan for the Realms?
I just found out Mulmaster has lost a heck of a lot of people and has become a Town. (Re AL Expeditions Scenario: Tyranny in Phlan)
I recal Ed confirming this a few months ago at Fan-Expo. I'll see if I can find the youtube video.
All this build up directed towards the D&D community seems pointless without out a camapaign update. Heck I'd be happy with an updated map. oh well it's very disapointing.
My feeling is this: The Spellplague, etc., just to launch Forgotten Realms 4E was too radical a reboot. Look at what they did:
- They turned part of the Shaar and the gold dwarf/Underdark lands into an open septic called the Underchasm (my choice of words);
- They sunk Luiren;
- They totally wrecked Halruaa;
- Dropped the Inner Sea (kinda like someone flushed);
And that's just the geographical havoc which was OK'd for FR 4E.
For those who thought those changes were cool...Good for you. I thought they were ill-thought and poorly implemented. To me this is like Windows 8 debut, heads would have to roll.
With that being said...If I was on the FR design team, I'd be in a quandry. It's hard to move forward and roll back much without some people complaining about the rollback, or pointing to it as an unspoken mea culpa.
I understand them wanting to wait, to let the dust settle. Too much has been done already.
if I had my way though, I'd do the following:
- Roll back the map hacks, with or without an explanation as to why. (It's magic! Voila!) If they can tear the grass up, they can put new grass back in.
- Reinstate a number of the deities that were slain/demoted, but not all. Maybe not even mention all of them. I'd leave the rest up to the readers and be mum. (A little ambiguity is fine.) Not all the deities make sense or have a real 'place' in people's own version of the Realms. I can't stand Lliira, she may still be listed as a FR deity but she doesn't really appear in my game. Likewise some people don't want to bring back Eilistraee.
If WotC decides to do a book about the Forgotten Realms, perhaps they'll instead do a 'light' version which merely pushed the timeline forward and lightly touches upon the pantheons, etc. So as to not step on too many toes, and to keep from turning it back into a Canon-heavy campaign setting.
Selvarin wrote:
Selvarin wrote:
I hear what's being said. As for something being published they'll still want to stick to the essentials, so to speak--the iconic movers and shakers of the Realms. Put that to the front, and if someone wants to delve further point them to another source which would include updates on what's happened to deity X and Y, what their respective place is. I'd love a Realms update in HC format but they'll be looking at other buyers in addition to FR fans. The Gods know I'd hate to assault someone new to the Realms with pages of lists. Just this evening I started inputting 5E material on Forgotten Realms deities and started adding deities from older sources, pre-spellplague. Yeesh, there are so many that died, disappeared, or became exarchs (or demigods)...It's impossible not to step on toes.
IMO trying to give a sense of familiarity to the Realms through a few adventures is one of the reasons why they are waiting to release a FRCS, which would have to contain a broad update, including deities. I can agree with you however, they should leave the deeper lore to supplements* (and really this is what they should have done with 4e instead of nuking/destroying so much, if they wanted to bring new people in), but WotC's planned release pace is looking so slow right now that the question is if we will ever get to see anything on non-movers and shakers if they aren't included in the FRCS, especially considering WotC's other priorities in publishing (that is unless they decide to gradually release update on the non-movers and shakers through online supplements or articles like the 'Forging the Realms' series).
*even tho there are some deities that -given the events concerning them- should get a deeper treatment about their return, like it happened for the gods that made an appearence in the Sundering novels and -ofc I might be biased here- I think should happen for gods like Eilistraee and Vhaeraun (not really movers, but iconic to their race and popular enough to warrant an explanation).
s
I only started playing the Relams again recently after a 5 ear break swithcing to homebrew/Mystara/Golarion. I pulled out my 2E materials and used those with bits of the 3E material and ran in 1373 DR. Probably planning on ignoring everything after 1375DR.
DragnDave wrote:
There's nothing wrong with a new FR book which provides some updates. You can still pick and choose what works and what doesn't. Besides, there's nothing to say the book doesn't include a few FR-based spells and what not. New material is new material.
Jorunhast wrote:
Iluvrien wrote:
Got a question i don't have the 5th edition books yet but does half-elf diletantte appear in the books anywhere. I'd like to know what i'm getting into.
Faediira: No it does not. Half Elves get some interesting skill based bonuses in 5e. You will find there are less skills that 3.5, but more skills than 4e. This is probably also a better question to ask in a rules based part of the forums.
What happens is that your characters background (ie what she was before being an adventurer) and current class give you a choice of certain skills to be proficient in. Humans and Half Elves get given more proficiencies to play with. Proficiency bonus is a flat +2 for all characters (all characters progress at the same rate) and hits +3 at level 5. I really like the background system they have implimented because it just is so easy to expand upon.
Ive run nearly all of the Expeditions scenarios set in FR (and mort importantly the Moonsea region). I can tell you that Zhentil Keep is still in Ruins. Its clearly marked on the map of the region as 'Ruins of Zhentil Keep'.
I've been playing ddo online which is also wotc material so i was familiar with the diletantte enchancement but i suppose it would be an easy transition to 5e as long as i can get her use magic device up high enough to use certain magical items.
The added bonuses sound great though. And quite honestly i never did like zhentil keep.
I am curious to where the earth motes still are in certain areas. Any areas I'm not picky.
Faediira wrote:
Meh, they should emphasize it by saying that the Realms obviously belong to the players and DMs, while giving more options with details on what the Sundering changed. Just think about the lore and rp opportunities that could be given by the countless returned gods and thier clergy trying to re-establish their influence, or the lands that came back from Abeir, or places like Halruua/Thay being rebuilt (or taken back by the living in the second case), or previously lost/diminished organizations flourishing once again and so on. Giving details on these things and therefore offering campaing and plot hooks would be an awesome thing to do.
Having no/extremely vague and narrow (the novels) info about such drastic changes and returns is always a loss, as it means players/DMs getting less options (as you say, the Realms are theirs to use anyway, so more lore can only do good) and fans of the setting in general getting nothing of what they wish to know. Telling people the same thing about familiar faces and feel returning over and over in various interviews, and then proceeding to detail absolutely nothing is just lame. I get that they fear to disappoint some fans with their decision, but the damage has already been done, the fanbase already fractured by all the RSEs that they thought it was a good idea to make happen and spread random destruction across the Realms. Staying silent won't work (for me, and for many other FR fans, as far as I can see). It basically equals to stopping any significant support and development of the setting, when they could organize and release all the lore about the Post Sundering Realms that Ed has been writing like mad...
LordManshoon wrote:
I am curious, what would you think of a sourcebook that was organized by various eras of FR. Each could be organized the same but with different info to match that era. This would allow each FR fan to pick and choose what they wanted to use and alow those who are newer to the setting to have a big picture run down of how the setting has changed over time.
Nolwelen wrote:
To be honest, and this is what it seems like at the moment. If they DO NOT release a campaign setting but instead continue to release these 3rd party modules, I wouldnt be too oppossed to that. We know their Elemental Evil module also comes with an adventurers handbook that again details more backgrounds and the like for that module path. We also know its set in current FR so that means that these backgrounds will be flavored to the FR. What area exactly we dont know. I think we will keep seeing these little bite size chunks of FR , with no one central place (bar of course a wiki using information culled from these books). Im still not too worried there. We might get 4-5 of these modules + companion books set in FR.. with each detailing a different area before they move on to a different setting.
Irennan wrote:
Jorunhast wrote:
Irennan wrote:
They basically did it with every edition. 3e had something similar too. Anyway, that paragraph in the preface surely isn't the reason why 4e wasn't a success among FR fans. Their design approach kind of contradicted that message, because instead of building and giving people more options that could be ignored/changed, with their removal of so many iconic elements of the setting they took away said options.
Irennan wrote:
I tweeted Bob Salvatore. If you were following news of the Sundering in 2012-2013, you'll recall he was instrumental in fleshing out the Sundering and "fixing Ed's Realms." To use his words. Bob said that he would be personally working on the new setting update this time around.
So I tweeted him and asked him if he knew whether WotC ever planned to actually make a Realms book now. His response?
"No idea."
This is far more telling than it looks. It would be different if Bob was just writing his Drizzt novels as normal for the Realms. Obviously he probably would not be in the loop on something like a new Realms Sourcebook. But in 2013 he publicly stated, more than once, that WotC would giving him one of the driver seats in fixing the Realms and mapping the 5e Realms out. He would be directly involved in something like a 5e FRCS.
And now he has "no idea" what's going on over there? Sure sounds like someone over at WotC changed their minds. 
Watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLf1hBUr9M4
You can fast forward to the 11:30 mark where Bob talks about the Spellplague and how he and Ed personally cooked up the Sundering to fix it. He then talks about, how after the 4e Realms bombed, James Wyatt came to Bob asking for his help fixing the Realms. Bob said that he personally directed Wyatt and the team through his Sundering plan. Bob basically said, "If you don't like the new Realms, you can blame me. I am taking full responsibility for the new Realms, and I'm quite proud of it."
Personally, I am all for a Realms fix that was designed by Bob Salvatore and Ed Greenwood. The question now is, will we ever see it?
Even Bob has "no idea."