This is a thread to share your opinion on whether you prefer the Classic Realms villains or any of the newer groups that have popped over the past decade or so of Realms time.
What villainous groups are your favorite for adventuring against and why? What do you like about them?
Thanks, Mr. Kemp. ;)
First off, I like the Zhentarrim
- They are like the 'Anti-Harpers', and you really can't have one without the other. I think, once again, Paul Kemp's portrayal of them is perfec; they are not so much 'Ketstone Cops', but rather, because of their internal makeup, their members keep back-stabbing each other. I think if they ever got their s__t together, they could wipeout the Harpers overnight.
Thats why, IMG, it's the Harpers that go out of their way to stir up trouble between Zhent factions. The Harpers know they are out-manned and out-gunned, so they cause unrest whenever they can. Strangely enough, now that Bane appears to be firmly back in charge, I'm thinking of having Cyric 'discreetly' help along certain Harper activities (but their 'patron' will, of course, remain unknown).
Thast the GREAT thing about FR - it's all 'wheels within wheels'.
The Red Wizards
- I prefer them as an aloof, stand-offish group. Rather then the imbeciles they have been portrayed as (Thaymart!!!), I see them as 'thoughtful planners'. I don't have them staging useless assaults against Aglarond and the Simbul every other day - thats just a waste of resources, and it makes them look ridiculous. I prefer my Red Wizards more like the Sojourner (Paul Kemp again :D ) - they have their own agendas, and rarely work together, but those agendas are never as simple as they seem. If a Zulkir has his army attack Rashemen, it is really just a feint to keep people from seeing his REAL objective - to retrieve a powerful artifact from a nearby Narfellian ruin. Most of their supposed 'bumbling' is all an illusion, carefully staged so that no one can figure out their long-range plans (not even me!)
As for Thaymart - what most people don't realize is that they also represent Thayan Embassies within those countries they are allowed entrance to, and like any REAL Embassy, the purpose is solely to spy on their neighbors. It also allows them to setup an intricate planet-wide portal network, similar to Aurora's, but more insidious. With those 'Enclaves' firmly in place, Thay can eventually have armies 'pop-up' wherever they like.
Netherese Empire
Really hating this - I've decided to keep Shade, but I'm not sure if I will keep it where it is. Having Shadow-people living in the middle of a bright, sunny desert is just a little too ridiculous for my blood.
I will certainly NOT be adding Sembia to it's 'Empire' - I've already been adding chunks of Sembia to Cormyr, as per the ending of the Crusade, and fits in with what we know about certain places seceding from Sembia in coming years. Whats left of Sembia will be more along the lines of guild-controled mercantile city-states, warring just as much with each other as anybody else. The Shades may try to have some influence in one or two cities, but thats as far as it will go.
I think I will just create a 'Shadowmount' for them to live in - perhaps they 'grew' a mountain over their enclave after repeated assaults by the newly risen Amaunator. Still not sure, but I know I'm sticking them underground where they belong (a subterranean floating city... I wonder if thats been done before...)
Others...
I'll be folding whats left of the Iron Throne into the Rundeen, and probably add in the Kraken Society as well, just having Slarkrethel (the Kraken) become one of the Rundeen leaders. I like to think of them as the Swordcoast's answer to the Zhents, and they would be antagonistic (same goals) toward each other, as well as the poor Harpers, who are caught between the two groups. Stirring up trouble between them would also be a common Harper pastime.
I like the Coiled Cabal, and I may be using them to expand Yuan-ti holdings. This fits in nicely with what Rich has recently said regarding Najara, and also given the fact that they are losing a huge chunk of scaley-controlled teritory around Sespech.
Cult of the Dragon - Never really liked them much; I'll see how 4e handles them. With all the crap brewing between Bahamut and Tiamet in 4e, I'm sure I'll keep them around for something (probably as a part of Tiamet's organization). Either way, I'll be down-playing the Dracolich aspect, and make them more about serving (and using) Dragons of all types.
The Red Wizards of Thay: I've always treated as SCARY and inducing the same amount of paranoia in otherwise docile nations of Faerun as the Soviet Union did the United States. Before the Shades came, the idea of a nation of Wizards was a SCARY SCARY thing and Halruaa is just too far removed from regular Faerun for anyone to really think too much about it.
There's agents of the Red Wizards of Thay spread throughout the land but mostly I like to illustrate that with Portals, potentially any nation at any time could find themselves assaulted by vast hordes of undead zombies and slave armies that make 300's version of the Persians look relatively pleasant.
Everyone is scared of the Red Wizards and there's really no way to fight them without destroying your nation unless you have a miracle up your sleeve. It's because of this portrayal that I refuse to have the Red Wizards of Thay treated as Thaymart members because it undercuts their aloofness and cruel nature.
The Zhents: I use them as the Forgotten Realms version of S.P.E.C.T.R.E. The Zhentariam are as rich as Sembia and the Church of Waukeen while possessing military assets that are equal to anything except the total sum of Cormyr's own forces. Unlike the Red Wizards of Thay, which are more powerful than them, the Zhents prefer treachery to direct confrontation for the most part.
The Black Network's enclaves and agents are everywhere in the Realms. At various times, they control hundreds of nobles and priests in every place on the Realms and are constantly on the lookout for how to take over more places or agents. For the most part, 90% of their plots suceed but its the remaining 10% that get thwarted by the Harpers and prevent them from achieving the dominance they feel should be theres.
Yes, there's infighting in the Zhents but I make it clear that the majority of it is "trying to impress the boss" (Manshoon or Fzoul). It's less stabbing people in the back and sabotaging projects (that would get you executed for disrupting business) than going out of your way to bring in more revenue or power to the group.
Thats why I'm not seeing that stuff about the Zhents - the higher-ups, perhaps, but the street-level part of the organization (1-3 level) would all be trying to 'out-do' one another, in order to move up the ranks. Since Asssassins seem to be a major part of the organization, and assassination is an ACCEPTED means of self-promotion among assassins, I think a lot of low-lev 'back-biting' is essential to weeding out the weak in the group.
Also, almost all Zhents (up until the 'upper-crust') have their own personal intrigues and deals going on. Like we saw in the Erevis Cale and Elminster's Daughter novels, many of them make money by being information brokers on the side, and a few even sell info to Harpers!!!
Thats why the 'higher-ups' don't let the low-level guys know what they are REALLY planning. When they give the false information to Harper agaents, the Zhentarrim then find out exactly who they can trust.
Really, rivalries and competition will make them stronger, not weaker, and if the rest of Faerûn wishes to see them as 'blunderers' because of it, so much the better. An un-informed enemy is an un-prepared enemy.
Twisted Rune
Forgot about these guys! This is the group that will swallow up the others - the Iron Throne, Rundeen, and Kraken Society. All will still exist (in name only), and a lot of the lower-tier membership won't even know they are part of an even bigger organization. That could lead to some problems when some Rundeen low-levs try to sabotage the cargo of a Twisted Rune coster, but thats all part of the fun in a secretive, evil group.
Larloch
Someone mentioned him joining the Netherese, and then taking control there. I really like that, and I might just use it, if I don't like what the designers have come up with. Also, it would fit perfectly with my plan to place them underground.
Ioulum
No clue what to do with this guy - maybe a cult ala Dark Sun's Dragonkings, where Ioulum's mastery of both Arcane and mental arts allows him to achieve demigod status, and he can grant spells to his followers. I just don't like the fact that he is a big ol' nasty brain now. I would prefer to make him an Iuz (GH) type baddie, building his own kingdom secretly (perhaps to oppose Larloch and his Netherese). Maybe I'll have him stay a brain in his subterrainian lair, but have him 'project' an image of himself as he was in life (like an Avatar!) Then I can have the best of both worlds - keep the canon 'brain', and use him as a poweful, god-like figure commanding legions.
Last of the 'Big Three'
And probably the biggest (at least, size-wise); what to do with Aumvor the Undying? I joked about making him a demi-power in another thread, but seriously, I think we have enough ex-Netherese Liches running around. Maybe I'll just have him join Larloch's ranks as his top lieutenant.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15399982&postcount=371
Larloch
I think Larloch best works as a joke character. If he desired, he could cast a spell and overnight destroy the whole of Faerun. There's no way to oppose him, no way to stop him, and nothing that can be done against him.
However all he wants to do is fiddle with his test tubes.
But yes, I think that the Zhents should always be portrayed as competent. Only the Harpers composed of Cormyr's Finest Soldiers and their mute, silent, Ninja Snake Eyes should be able to stop their evil schemes.
Nice... I really need to go there more... :embarrass
-All of the best thinkers, philosophers, and metaminds are doing it. ;)
-Well, not really, but it allows a bypass for the "WotC owns everything you say" problem.
It does fit perfectly, right down to the 'Baroness' character and the futile scheming and back-biting by the various sub-groups. I would say that is exactly where Ed (or whoever) drew inspiration from...
Making the Harpers 'The Joes'. :D
I really like the concept of Sinanju from The Destroyer series of novels, and I've incorporated it into my Koryo Kara-Tur stuff. That super-secret organization of 'social assassins' has grown well beyond the borders of Koryo, and members can be found throughout the Eastern Realms.
I figure, by the time 4e/1479 rolls around, they will have made in-roads in Western Faerûn, with a sizeable base in Thesk.
Thought I'd throw a homebrew into the mix... not really homebrew, but it is as far as FR is concerned.
Thinking about bringing back the Witchking, or at least having someone else take his place (Larloch?).
Have also been toying with the idea of 'Sky Pirates' - since in 4e the Pirates of the Fallen Stars won't have as much water to work with, maybe they discover/purchase either Skyships or Spelljammers (which I use as the same thing, pretty much), and go around conducting airborn assaults against remote towns and villages.
I'm not sure if I'll use that - might be a bit too much craziness, but with all those 'floating islands' we have in 4e, having Pirate Bases on a few of them might be kinda cool.
-All of the best thinkers, philosophers, and metaminds are doing it. ;)
-Well, not really, but it allows a bypass for the "WotC owns everything you say" problem.
Little by little some of them are registering. We just need to use that place more, and start putting our efforts to complete the different projects.
Official recruitment poster for the Zhentite Coalition, otherwise Known as the Moonsea Imperium. :D
*She's holding the new Arquebus 3000 Smokepowder assault weapon.
Scyulla was their Zaranna....
GO MANSHOON!
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15401155&postcount=374
Anyway, here's the Manshoon of Faerûn-295
:DReminds me over on the Eberron boards, it's a running joke that the Lord of Blades is Darth Vader.
But then he would look like Super-Shredder. ;)
Pic curtesy of ~-vassago-
The cult is perhaps even more wide spread than the zhents, and has formidible magical power in it's own right. The onlything keeping it in check, is that it's broke down into individual cells with it's own authority right? Keep in mind that it's primary objective, the creation of Dracoliches, is going full steam ahead. Keep in mind, that while Samaster may be gone, Algashoon is still around, undead, and a fanatical worshiper of Bane. There are amulets of dragon kind left about, and Algashoon has the best means of anyone to find them. Also keep in mind how few dracoliches are truly destroyed. The Cult has the 411 where all their phylacteries are. Thanks to the year of rogue dragons, there are ample dragon corpses strewn about. Sooner or latter, things will come to a head, and a rage of Dracoliches will be unleashed on the cults enemies. By conquering Faerun, the cult will fullfill the prophecy, and Algashoon will become the ultimate tyrant under Bane's rule.
Red Wizards
As another poster stated, the Red Wizards are establishing eyes and ears throughout the realms. They know who is important, and why. They know where they sleep, where they will be, and how to neutralize them. They have a beach head inside the city walls, where they could filter in hundreds of troops without anyone being the wiser. They have people that they control, and own, that are well placed. If the Thayans wished to invade, these enclaves are a brilliant first step. Unfortunatley it seems that the designers are stealing from WoW, and tearning it into the realm of the Lich King.
Eldreth Veluuthra
Elves are responsible for many of the calamities that have befallen the realms. Infact, they have probably caused more wide spread damage than any other group in the the history of toril. Yet no one suspects them! Take a group of anti-human fanatics with access to high magic, and the possibilities are endless.
The Zhentarim
Fzoul is on a roll, and as the chosen of Bane, he as the luxury of time. With the spell plague coming, Mystra's Death, and the decimation of her chosen, he is finally king of the hill. Bane's faith is stronger than ever, as Cyric is gone as well. Eventually he will have to recon with Shar and her Shades, but Eastern Fearun is theirs for the taking.
The Harpers
The biggest group of meddlesome troublemakers in the realms. Arrogant in the firm belief that they are right, and doing what must be done, can lead to unseen ramifications.
Richard Baker and the WOTC Forgotten Realms Team
Nations fall, and noble heros are slaughtered at their whim. There is no ryme or reason to their movements, and most times their goals seem contradictory to their actions. Yet even Ao bows before their power, and nothing shall be left untrampled beneath their feet.
Richard Baker and the WOTC Forgotten Realms Team
Nations fall, and noble heros are slaughtered at their whim. There is no ryme or reason to their movements, and most times their goals seem contradictory to their actions. Yet even Ao bows before their power, and nothing shall be left untrampled beneath their feet.
So, you've decided to unleash the ULTIMATE evil on your Realms, eh? ;)
Ever since they arrived, I liked the Shadowmasters of Telflamm. If you decentralize them from their base and craft enough HQs, all under the guidance of the church of Mask, they could provide a real menace throughout the Realms.
Red Wizards ... apart from getting pummelled during the Spellplague and the civil war which preceded this event, I never viewed them as omni-present an evil as some novels or adventures do. (Obviously, while they are up to their mischief, they are always looked upon by the almighty Chosen crew of The Simbul & Co., which essentially turns them into some sort of hollow threat rather than something substantial.
Netherese / Shade ... well, what to say about them? If the PC group has outgrown the threat which the Zhentarim posed, they can cross blades with these - magically - more powerful chaps in black. Of course, given their high-magical environment, this folk could pose a very deathly threat not just to some PCs and if they don't do this, especially after Spellplague, you wonder about their true capabilities ...
Cult of the Dragon ... needs a few decent leaders and good draconic allies. The odd cell here and there will only provide XP ammunition for PC who left the Zhents behind and looking for some "higher" aims ... e.g. Shades.
How do you plan on getting alot of people to join your cult with that plan.
recruit: So, you guys worship dragons huh? That is great, dragons are longlived and strong and should be masters of everything!
cultist: No, worshipping living dragons is silly. Our dragons are undead. We worship undead dragons.
recruit: That is too whacky for me. I'm out!
Since the whole debacle during the Rage I hope the Cult is taking over by Tiamat and I hope they just start worhipping here instead of "undea dragons".
How do you plan on getting alot of people to join your cult with that plan.
recruit: So, you guys worship dragons huh? That is great, dragons are longlived and strong and should be masters of everything!
cultist: No, worshipping living dragons is silly. Our dragons are undead. We worship undead dragons.
recruit: That is too whacky for me. I'm out!
Um...most Cults don't make sense....so why should The Cult of The Dragon be any different?
Also most members just pay lip service to the idea of a Necrodracoarchy and are just in it for the power.
I think it should be left alone...if they don't make dracoliches who would after all?
Suppose we are down to 20 (I'm sure there is way more then that)... do you plan on sending your PCs against all 20? Is that the basis for your entire campaign?
I think we have enough uber-powerful boney Dragons in FR to keep people busy for years to come. Let the CotD worship Tiamet as it should.
Then the Sorority of the Silver Fire can worship Bahamut.
Because he asked for it - New groups:
Casin Cu Calas - This bunch of 'KKK' wanna-be will never see the light of day in my Realms. I may make the Eldreth Veluuthra more prominent as a threat (and more fanatical, like terrorists), but thats as far as I'll go with the racist crap.
The Witches - Homebrew mix of the Aes Sedai, Bene Gesserit, and the Sisters of the Light - basically an organization of secretive women who like to pull the strings from behind the scenes. The group was set-up in answer to all the problems of the Spellplague, originally by local village Wisewomen. Unbeknownst to most members, this organization is secretly lead by Dmitri Flass, the ex-Red Wizardess of Thay, and has been training its members in more powerful magics since the beginning.
Painbringers - Another Homebrew, based on the Worshippers of Loviatar combined with the Mord Sith. What can I say? I like Sadistic Women in leather...
Curch of Anu - Discussed heavily in the Utter East thread. Your Basic 'Militant Religion' ala the WoT's Children of the Light, composed of Inquisition-loving Zealots, this group rose to power as an anti-arcane magic group during the Spellplague (It had existed for years, but grew exponentially during the 'Plague Years'). Based in Ulgarth, this Organization has been spreading its 'message' to other parts of Faerûn.
Do we even need more Dracoliches?
I'd take a dracolich ahead of some Lords-of-Madness-like Spellplague-spawned abberrations any day.
Painbringers - Another Homebrew, based on the Worshippers of Loviatar combined with the Mord Sith. What can I say? I like Sadistic Women in leather...
-Markus did I ever say that "I Luv You"!!!!;)
"Mord Sith FTW!!!!:D
18DELTA
Eldreth Veluuthra
Elves are responsible for many of the calamities that have befallen the realms. Infact, they have probably caused more wide spread damage than any other group in the the history of toril. Yet no one suspects them! Take a group of anti-human fanatics with access to high magic, and the possibilities are endless.
-Based on their write up, it is highly unlikely that the Eldreth Veluuthra has access to Selu'Taar.
And if Drow can cast High Magic Ritual, I'm sure the EV can too. ;)
I'd take a dracolich ahead of some Lords-of-Madness-like Spellplague-spawned abberrations any day.
Very, VERY true...
Bruce Cordell IS one of the Lead desihgners.....
I'm not saying anything derogatory... yet... because I happen to like a lot of what he has done before, both in design and writing, so I have high hopes in this regard.
You know, when he made that comment about the heinious evil of the Evles, I just KNEW you'd reply. :D
-I got a reputation to keep, you know? But, silliness aside, the odds that the Eldreth Veluuthra have Selu'Taar under their wing is virtually nill. Selu'Taar need to be in complete harmony when they enter into Circles, and for one to hate N'Tel'Quessir, and wish them harm, while the others are ambivilently neutral? No, not really...They'd stick out like a sore thumb.
And if Drow can cast High Magic Ritual, I'm sure the EV can too. ;)
-Using "Elven High Magic Scrolls" (in the first book), no less...
-Don't remind me. Is there anyone that actually likes those books, in terms of the lore contained therewithin?
-Using "Elven High Magic Scrolls" (in the first book), no less...
-Don't remind me. Is there anyone that actually likes those books, in terms of the lore contained therewithin?
Come on, that 'Elven Kiira powered High Magic circle casting' to erase Kiaransalee's name from the memory of all faerzress connected drow takes some beating ...
As novels, they are not that bad though.
Come on, that 'Elven Kiira powered High Magic circle casting' to erase Kiaransalee's name from the memory of all faerzress connected drow takes some beating ...
-I didn't even want to get started on that.
-Using "Elven High Magic Scrolls" (in the first book), no less...
-Don't remind me. Is there anyone that actually likes those books, in terms of the lore contained therewithin?
-But they do make for great reading. Even if the lore blows.;)
18DELTA
That was in which series again? I haven't read the latest two Drow ones... don't want to, from what I'm hearing.
I really got to find out where these 'authors' buy there weed....
-But they do make for great reading. Even if the lore blows.;)
18DELTA
-Hmm...I don't know. I can recall, in Book I, I was struggling to tolerate the male Melarn protagonist. I was like, "Alright, I am supposed to care about him why?". Too much flip-flopping, that character. The second book only made that even worse. Truthfully, there were very few elements that I was looking forward to- the ultimate fate of the Lady Penitent (to which I have my own theory, if anyone wants to hear it), being number one, of course.
I we talking about the ret-conned Faerzress-Nodes-turned-Drownip?
-I was talking about even before that, when the Drow Clerics of Vhaeraun used a High Magic Ritual, which was written on a scroll.
That was in which series again? I haven't read the latest two Drow ones... don't want to, from what I'm hearing.
-The Lady Penitent Trilogy.
I for one think that Mr. Smedman was given a thankless task here. It most likely simply said: "this is Drow of the Underdark, you read the bit about Lolth, now make sure that at the end of the trilogy DotUD is correct and clad it in a good story!" At least the streamlining of the panthei in 4E suggests something along that line of thought.
My problem is, of course, that much of what has been written regarding the various deities' demises is lore-wise hardly likely, borders on extreme rule-bending, and leaves very many questions open. I could go on for about two pages why the Kia spell would only be a fleeting effect, not to mention that the way it was described is not cohesive enough either - all in-setting and rules-wise. But that's irrelevant now. Vhaeraun, Selvetarm and Kiaransalee had to go and I can name a dozen authors out of my head who would have done a far worse job than Mrs. Smedman.
As I said and still want to underline this, novel-wise, they rank among the best, i.e. 7-8 out of 10.
The setting is being bent around the author's needs, and the author's stories are being twisted around the design teams goals, which makes every last bit of lore we have received for the last two years feel 'forced'. Thats not good story-telling, IMHO, thats mechanics creeping into the fluff.
I wonder if ANY other novels are written that way - "Okay, here's the ENDING... now write the stuff before it."
So what's your own theory on the lass who gives name to the series but does hardly play a major role so far, LK?
-I am under the assumption that the Lady Penitent is going to fufill the prophecies, and is going to kill Lolth with Eilistraee's Crescent Blade. After doing so, she is going to become Lolth herself.
-I am under the assumption that the Lady Penitent is going to fufill the prophecies, and is going to kill Lolth with Eilistraee's Crescent Blade. After doing so, she is going to become Lolth herself.
being that the last book is titled final ascension, you may be right.
being that the last book is titled final ascension, you may be right.
-There's that, there's the fact that the Lady Penitent seems to be highly venomous (no pun intended) towards Lolth, and being in her service in the state she is in, and the fact that, with 4e coming, what a better way than to make sure that the traits Lolth has in the "core" books match the traits Lolth has in the Forgotten Realms, by "axing" her.
-I am under the assumption that the Lady Penitent is going to fufill the prophecies, and is going to kill Lolth with Eilistraee's Crescent Blade. After doing so, she is going to become Lolth herself.
Now that would be a great suprise, wouldn't it?!? Honestly, if some scrabbling semi-sane aberration is ever going to come close to Mistress "Always-on-her-toes and up-to-a-thousand mischiefs", a.k.a. Lolth, it would simply put the icing on the cake. Not to mention that Lolth has, as described in all the novels, complete control over that lass (and nigh anything living near her). But there might as well be a deus-ex-machine device or event which comes in handily again.
After all, it seems that the average 4E drow as well as Lolth will much like the demons return to a more monstrous state (i.e. more monsters than playable player races) and that semi-sane (i.e. half-mad) aberration turning into the new Lolth would follow that line of thought too.
If I had something to say, leave the Crescent Blade aside (whom I still rate as something Lolth-crafted, BTW), let, as described, Ghaunadaur have some fun with the Spider Queen and just before the two goddesses go head to head, have that sava table and all being blown apart by the Spellplague.
Thus you save the two goddesses faces. But the writing is already on the wall - if only someone of us could read it.
What will be annoying, no matter how it all this divine battle unfolds, is the fact that we will have again to wait aeons till the myriad of the open questions will be answered - if at all. For all the REalms will have to be revamped and newly detailed for 4E, a job that will most likely not being finished before the advent of 4,5E or 5E ...
I've also added in a group of evil 'mad scientist' type of Gnomish Biomancers (Necromancers focusing on life, rather then death), who enjoy cutting apart LIVING specimens, adding 'parts' to others, and basically doing all sorts of screwy Island of Dr. Moreau type crap, with a little bit of 'Frankenstein' thrown in for good measure.
Their 'breeding programs' mostly take place on the Island of Orlil (the smallest of the three that make up Lantan). The Island is off limits to all non-Gnomes, and a group of heretical (Gnomish) Gondsmen also participate. Their latest abomination involved combining the remains of recently deceased human with an Arcanoforged (Warforged) - a new type of 'living' Animatronic Golem.
Unfortunetly, the 'subject' regained some of his human memories from his past life, and escaped into the wilderness. A large reward is being offered by MARS (Mechanical & Arcane Research Society) for the captured of the 'Half-forged'.
Oh... and he's in constant pain.
They are well-written as novels, although it's hard to enjoy them even that way, with all the silly stuff going on in them. And yes, LK, I agree with you that Q'arlynd did so much "flip-flopping" that it was hard to care about him. In fact, I found it hard to care about pretty much all the main characters...
And yes, LK, I agree with you that Q'arlynd did so much "flip-flopping" that it was hard to care about him. In fact, I found it hard to care about pretty much all the main characters...
-That's my main problem with it, asides for the lore contained within. With other novels, at least there are characters I like. I didn't particularly like the lore from The Year of the Rogue Dragons trilogy, but I liked some of the characters- Kara and Pavel, for instance. This trilogy, not so much. Q'arlynd, I don't like. Qilue, I never liked too much, and she is acting even weirder now. Cavatina I don't like too much. The only one I think is fairly interesting is The Lady Penitent herself!
-That's my main problem with it, asides for the lore contained within. With other novels, at least there are characters I like. I didn't particularly like the lore from The Year of the Rogue Dragons trilogy, but I liked some of the characters- Kara and Pavel, for instance. This trilogy, not so much. Q'arlynd, I don't like. Qilue, I never liked too much, and she is acting even weirder now. Catativa (Sp?) I don't like too much. The only one I think is fairly interesting is The Lady Penitent herself!
I like Qilue, but this series seems like it's trying to change her character entirely, so how could I enjoy that? Don't like Cavatina either, although that's partly because I thought she killed a god too easily, albeit with help (Selvatarim). I'm prejudiced against her because she's moving a story that I think is often silly. The LP herself is interesting, yes, although I can't truly like her because of the way she is (she's a villain--she claims not to want to help Lolth, then acts otherwise).
The LP herself is interesting, yes, although I can't truly like her because of the way she is (she's a villain--she claims not to want to help Lolth, then acts otherwise).
-Like I said before, I think she is only serving herself, and is going to attempt (and succeed) to kill Lolth. Lolth would be so proud, and would have it no other way, I'm sure.
-Like I said before, I think she is only serving herself, and is going to attempt (and succeed) to kill Lolth. Lolth would be so proud, and would have it no other way, I'm sure.
I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.
Of course, using "logic" to figure things out regarding this series doesn't work too well, if you catch my meaning.;)
Qilué was interesting pre LP, as she presented the far more "neutral" than "good" approach of the Eilistraeens. Matter of factly, most of them, in WotSQ and LP do. Yet, this particular Chosen took up a very strange line of thinking in the LP series, whereas Cavatina (her plotline aside) took up the rather chaotic neutral than chaotic good sort of meddling with non-drow people. In fact, some of her reasoning is more sound than much of what I have seen of Eilistraeens before and the odd remark about her feelings for the sword and Qilué taking it up as well as the intro of the Vhaeraunian males (and them pretending being equal to females!) makes you think that she is in fact a better prospect for a "new beginning" as a drow goddess than either Eilistraee, Halisstra or even Lolth. Something truly Neutral Evil. But all this redemption (I am getting oh so tired of this, really!) stuff in LP II did away with this classy character developement anyways.
Also, El's faith is treated as sexist before the merger with the Vhaeraunites and I can't imagine why the heck they'd join with El in the first place or why she'd want them.
Which reminds me--one good thing about this series is that it gave me some good ideas for a background of one of my PCs--a moon elven priestess of Eilistraee, who learned the faith in the Promenade. These novels were good for lore in that respect. But I dislike how it's all being screwed up now.
For me, The Lady Penitent Trilogy isn't BAD. I've had games just like it where the player characters find the plot devices and successfully destroy the villains they encounter (even if they're gods). However, neither of the "heroes" are particularly epic nor does El seem particularly weakened by it.
But that's your home game--it's fun for you and your group and doesn't affect the published setting.
The novels do affect the setting. I realize they can still be ignored, but it also means we are unlikely to get new stories about the "old" church of Eilistraee, which I enjoyed (and even that assumes the church will still be around for 4E).
But that's your home game--it's fun for you and your group and doesn't affect the published setting.
The novels do affect the setting. I realize they can still be ignored, but it also means we are unlikely to get new stories about the "old" church of Eilistraee, which I enjoyed (and even that assumes the church will still be around for 4E).
My point is, Ri, that I don't mind the series because it didn't hurt my vision of what kind of heroes the Realms should have. I like the 'evolving setting' ideal and frankly changes of this magnitude DON'T bug me (The Spell Plague is a different matter).
My point is, Ri, that I don't mind the series because it didn't hurt my vision of what kind of heroes the Realms should have.
OK, I understand now.
-Sounds a lot like a Half-Golem, which is detailed in the Monster Manual II, and are know to exist on Faerûn, by the existence of Dorn the Dragonslayer.
Except he looks more like this -
Here's a pic of one of their 'early models' :D
Here's a pic of one of their 'early models' :D
-Ah, a primitive B'omarr Monk.
Those sick, sadistic gnomes... some of their experiments would make a Loviatar worshipper shudder...