A question about Dragonborn and Bahamut in the Forgotten Realms Setting - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xjames720x Jun 20, 2012 16:53:35	I am mere hours away from running a 4e session in which my players are off to the Dragonborn lands of Tymanther (Forgotten Realms) in search of an ancient tome they need in order to strike a deal with a dragon. I have been reading up on as much lore as I can before the session in order to prepare as best I can, and I keep running into conflicting information. Most of what I read talks about how the Dragonbron hate dragons as they were enslaved by them in the past. However, I keep finding conflicting pieces of information. One place said that Dragonbron revere Bahamut as a creator god, while elsewhere I read Dragonborn would be quick to violence against someone who worshipped him. My question is, which of these is correct and or up to date? Do the Dragonborn still despise the dragons, or has that been changed in any way? Thanks for any clarification!
#2 Mr_Miscellany Jun 20, 2012 17:28:57	It's my (limited) understanding that Drabonborn from Tymanther in the Forgotten Realms suffered a great deal under the yoke of dragons when their race lived on Abeir. Some Dragonborn condemn those of their kind who worship Bahamut. I'm not sure what the core (non-Realms) rulebooks say about Dragonborn and Bahamut. That may be where your information on Bahamut as a creator god comes from. The concept of deific worship is new to the former inhabitants of Abeir that find themselves in the Realms. I'd expect that since Dragonborn do have a strong sense of independence, some would find their way to worshipping Bahamut (that is, the Realms version of Bahamut and not the core rules version) and moving on from dragon-hate.
#3 mvincent Jun 20, 2012 19:30:49	FRPG p.125: "The Platinum Cadre believes that dragonborn are children of Bahamut, the Platinum Dragon, and not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. As such, members of this group believe that “good” dragons exist, an idea that is met with ridicule and scorn by most dragonborn."
#4 Jorunhast Jun 20, 2012 20:35:25	Before 4E, "dragonborn" was a term for beings of any race that devotedly worshiped Bahamut and were so loved that Bahamut magically transformed them into draconic humanoids. This had nothing to do with Abeir or the race that now uses the term. The dragonborn of 4E, so far as I know, typically avoid religious worship. There were no gods on Abeir, only primordials. That may have changed somewhat, though, with Tymanther's "migration" to Faerun.
#5 DoctorNecrotic Jun 20, 2012 22:42:49	Before 4E, "dragonborn" was a term for beings of any race that devotedly worshiped Bahamut and were so loved that Bahamut magically transformed them into draconic humanoids. This had nothing to do with Abeir or the race that now uses the term. The dragonborn of 4E, so far as I know, typically avoid religious worship. There were no gods on Abeir, only primordials. That may have changed somewhat, though, with Tymanther's "migration" to Faerun. 3.5 had Races of the Dragon. Indeed, they were augmented draconic humanoids. Sort of a generic template for followers of Bahamut. I think there were articles on how they fit into Faerun prior. As for 4e? I dunno... I never read into the fluff for that besides some ancient empire, and some feud with tieflings. Though, they did exist in the Realms as the Half-Dragon and other draconic based beings that have existed before they were weirdly added in during the newest incarnation. That said, I believe there was some addons to the Dragonborn via an old Dragon Magazine article, with expanded details on them. But, don't take my word on this. At least I think they made one on DB for the Realms?
#6 18DELTA Jun 21, 2012 2:23:59	IIRC in the "Core World" Dragonborn serve Dragons, and in Abeir Dragonborn loath Dragons. I could be wrong...
#7 GreenKnight Jun 21, 2012 6:08:46	Dragonborn who hate dragons. That idea's about as clever as barbarians who hate magic... That's sarcasm on my part, by the way. It's not a clever idea at all.
#8 mvincent Jun 21, 2012 13:39:43	Core 4e (Races & Classes p.24-26): "Dragons arose as the kings and princes over the dragonborn, who gladly followed their nobler and more powerful kin." "In this dark and diminished age. dragons no longer rule over dragonborn realms." "The dragonborn had a stable society in the Empire of Arkhosia, where they revered their ancestors and the dragons. Although their empire crumbled, the dragonborn carried their reverence, their soldierly ways, and their honor with them." Contrasted with FRCG p.200 "In Returned Abeir, dragons rule vast realms of slaves. The dragonborn are the most numerous, but they are given to rebellion" and FRPG p.13: "The number of dragonborn who remember the times before the migration are minuscule, but nearly every dragonborn living today has a relative who suffered under the dragon despots of Abeir" That's sarcasm on my part, by the way. Clever.
#9 Diffan Jun 27, 2012 11:05:21	Really, it depends on the Dragonborn's background. Some might serve Bahamut and thus, wouldn't mind working for or with a Dragon. Others, who've had decendants from from Abeir, might thing Dragons are overlords in need of destroying, regardless of their nature. Basically I'd leave it up to the player to see how the Character felt. If there's nothing in the background or ancestery that would suggest that his family or descendents were oppressed, I don't see why he'd hate Dragons.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

xjames720x

Jun 20, 2012 16:53:35

I am mere hours away from running a 4e session in which my players are off to the Dragonborn lands of Tymanther (Forgotten Realms) in search of an ancient tome they need in order to strike a deal with a dragon. I have been reading up on as much lore as I can before the session in order to prepare as best I can, and I keep running into conflicting information. Most of what I read talks about how the Dragonbron hate dragons as they were enslaved by them in the past. However, I keep finding conflicting pieces of information. One place said that Dragonbron revere Bahamut as a creator god, while elsewhere I read Dragonborn would be quick to violence against someone who worshipped him.

My question is, which of these is correct and or up to date? Do the Dragonborn still despise the dragons, or has that been changed in any way?

Thanks for any clarification!

Mr_Miscellany

Jun 20, 2012 17:28:57

It's my (limited) understanding that Drabonborn from Tymanther in the Forgotten Realms suffered a great deal under the yoke of dragons when their race lived on Abeir. Some Dragonborn condemn those of their kind who worship Bahamut.

I'm not sure what the core (non-Realms) rulebooks say about Dragonborn and Bahamut. That may be where your information on Bahamut as a creator god comes from.

The concept of deific worship is new to the former inhabitants of Abeir that find themselves in the Realms. I'd expect that since Dragonborn do have a strong sense of independence, some would find their way to worshipping Bahamut (that is, the Realms version of Bahamut and not the core rules version) and moving on from dragon-hate.

mvincent

Jun 20, 2012 19:30:49

FRPG p.125: "The Platinum Cadre believes that dragonborn are children of Bahamut, the Platinum Dragon, and not servitors bred by the ancient wyrms of Abeir. As such, members of this group believe that “good” dragons exist, an idea that is met with ridicule and scorn by most dragonborn."

Jorunhast

Jun 20, 2012 20:35:25

Before 4E, "dragonborn" was a term for beings of any race that devotedly worshiped Bahamut and were so loved that Bahamut magically transformed them into draconic humanoids. This had nothing to do with Abeir or the race that now uses the term.

The dragonborn of 4E, so far as I know, typically avoid religious worship. There were no gods on Abeir, only primordials. That may have changed somewhat, though, with Tymanther's "migration" to Faerun.

DoctorNecrotic

Jun 20, 2012 22:42:49

Before 4E, "dragonborn" was a term for beings of any race that devotedly worshiped Bahamut and were so loved that Bahamut magically transformed them into draconic humanoids. This had nothing to do with Abeir or the race that now uses the term.

The dragonborn of 4E, so far as I know, typically avoid religious worship. There were no gods on Abeir, only primordials. That may have changed somewhat, though, with Tymanther's "migration" to Faerun.

3.5 had Races of the Dragon. Indeed, they were augmented draconic humanoids. Sort of a generic template for followers of Bahamut. I think there were articles on how they fit into Faerun prior. As for 4e? I dunno... I never read into the fluff for that besides some ancient empire, and some feud with tieflings. Though, they did exist in the Realms as the Half-Dragon and other draconic based beings that have existed before they were weirdly added in during the newest incarnation. That said, I believe there was some addons to the Dragonborn via an old Dragon Magazine article, with expanded details on them. But, don't take my word on this. At least I think they made one on DB for the Realms?

18DELTA

Jun 21, 2012 2:23:59

IIRC in the "Core World" Dragonborn serve Dragons, and in Abeir Dragonborn loath Dragons. I could be wrong...

GreenKnight

Jun 21, 2012 6:08:46

Dragonborn who hate dragons. That idea's about as clever as barbarians who hate magic...

That's sarcasm on my part, by the way. It's not a clever idea at all.

mvincent

Jun 21, 2012 13:39:43

Core 4e (Races & Classes p.24-26): "Dragons arose as the kings and princes over the dragonborn, who gladly followed their nobler and more powerful kin." "In this dark and diminished age. dragons no longer rule over dragonborn realms." "The dragonborn had a stable society in the Empire of Arkhosia, where they revered their ancestors and the dragons. Although their empire crumbled, the dragonborn carried their reverence, their soldierly ways, and their honor with them."

Contrasted with FRCG p.200 "In Returned Abeir, dragons rule vast realms of slaves. The dragonborn are the most numerous, but they are given to rebellion" and FRPG p.13: "The number of dragonborn who remember the times before the migration are minuscule, but nearly every dragonborn living today has a relative who suffered under the dragon despots of Abeir"

That's sarcasm on my part, by the way.

Clever.

Diffan

Jun 27, 2012 11:05:21

Really, it depends on the Dragonborn's background. Some might serve Bahamut and thus, wouldn't mind working for or with a Dragon. Others, who've had decendants from from Abeir, might thing Dragons are overlords in need of destroying, regardless of their nature. Basically I'd leave it up to the player to see how the Character felt. If there's nothing in the background or ancestery that would suggest that his family or descendents were oppressed, I don't see why he'd hate Dragons.