thats the series where the visiono f Mystra being spanked by Cyric with Azuh's staff came into being....
I have not read those books, yet, but yeah a list of all the lore and changes from the novel is a very good idea. I guess really that would be a good idea for any Realms novel. Ive noticed that all the novels I have read always have little tid bits in there that for whatever reason never make it into a game book. So the next time I read I realms novel I'm gonna make sure I have a notebook and pen handy so I can jot stuff down as I come across it, of course that might make it seem more like home work!
I guess I could try my hand at a short summary of the Empyrean Odyssey series. There's just a lot, really a ton of stuff going on. I'll try to work something up.
didnt read it either, but the review of them wasnt that pretty either.
thats the series where the visiono f Mystra being spanked by Cyric with Azuh's staff came into being....
There's a review? Where would I find that? Personally, I didn't think it was bad. Although I could see someone really disliking some of the outcomes (if they love Mystra or Helm, for example), I thought that it was well-written and had lots of entertaining twists and turns. The characters were interesting, although it similarly doesn't end well for many of the protagonists. It is an incredibly fast read, for sure, all three books. It's not one of those series that causes you to linger or re-read things, it's just a wild, zooming ride through the whole story.
About Cyric attacking Mystra with Azuth's staff, it's not quite so direct as that, parts are unclear, and it's not really seen "in person" by anyone.
How do I do spoilers on here? I don't really see an obvious button for that, and it's probably something that I should spoilerize.
sblock youre message here /sblock
The sblock and /sblock at the end should be in [ ]. I just typed it with out the [ ] so it wouldnt actualy spoiler block it.
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like this
MASSIVE spoilers ahead. Don't read them if you don't want to be spoiled!
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Tyr and Helm have an argument, which isn't specified in detail. The House of the Triad is divided, as Ilmater leaves to join Sune on her plane. The plane of the Triad is beset by chaotic storms, said to be a reflection of the conflict within the Triad, and more generally Tyr's anger. Tymora is said to have taken up residence in the House of the Triad, though she is troubled by feelings that she is being manipulated. The conflict is a source of confusion and chaos for most of the celestial (and mortal) denizens of the House of the Triad; Helm's celestials and faithful find themselves placed in a dubious "second class citizen" position, no longer fully trusted (by Tyr's faithful, mostly) and somewhat looked down upon. Tyr's celestials attempt to maintain control by focusing heavily on Law and an almost blind adherence to Tyr as the greater deity of the plane. Those who question strict adherence are questioned, not trusted, or at worst placed in banishment or "pleasant" prisons within the plane.
Helm is slain by Tyr. Tymora chooses to leave the House of the Triad afterwards, no longer sure of her own feelings and somewhat convinced that Cyric has been manipulating events between Tyr, Helm, herself, and perhaps other deities. Helm's celestials and faithful begin to lose their faith, some turning to Tyr and some turning to deities other than Tyr (like Torm).
In Dweomerheart, Cyric slays Mystra with Shar's help. In a Savras-inspired vision to the alu-fiend Aliisza, we learn that Shar distracts Azuth and her "agent" Kashada picks up the dropped staff. Kashada (later revealed to have been a separate aspect of Shar), hands the staff to Cyric who then brains Mystra with it. The attack itself, and the entities of Mystra, Cyric, and Shar, are not actually observed when this happens; in fact, no deity is seen "in person" or in avatar form throughout the entire series.
With Mystra's murder, Dweomerheart breaks apart. Many small "chunks" of the realm survive at least briefly (drifting in the Astral plane), and some of the inhabitants (celestials, demons, and other mortals) survive the initial destruction. Dweomerheart's dying planetars are at the core of these realm-remnants, and they disintegrate further as the planetar supporting it dies. Dying survivors of these "chunk" remnants who recover enough and can travel the Astral to another plane apparently survive, though it seems that celestials directly tied to Dweomerheart will eventually die no matter what. Additionally, in some cases, beings on the plane at the time of its destruction inherit potent "cerulean" magical powers (often deadly to oneself, as with Aliisza), or have merged in some way with other beings on the plane. Others remain as they were, but in danger of death as their planar chunk continues to disintegrate into the Astral.
The effects of Mystra's murder and the destruction of Dweomerheart are many. Some planes are vaporized, some planes are damaged, some planes are partially blended with other planes, and some new areas are created. Parts of the Hells and parts of the Abyss have dislodged and crashed into other planes, along with their inhabitants. The very large body of the deity Azuth is seen unconscious and floating adrift in the Astral plane. The World Tree is utterly destroyed. The mortal realms of Toril are affected (as described in the 4E sourcebook, but not described here). Spellplague energies damage people, celestials, devils, demons, and many locations on many planes, and "none know the full extent of the effects" (this is said between two angels, a short while after the murder). In some cases, the wild magic imbues a person or area with unique powers.
Tyr, Sune, and Lathandar (who has revealed himself as Amaunator) act in concert to imprison Cyric in his own realm. No further details on this are offered.
Tyr relinquishes his divinity to Torm. Torm accepts all of Tyr's celestials and faithful if they choose to follow him. Most celestials choose to follow Torm, although some lose faith and either lose their powers or choose to have faith in the "general" principles of Celestia.
The Home of the Triad becomes Celestia, headed by Torm. Ilmater returns to Celestia, to "help Torm with the transition to greater divinity" and cope with the loss of Tyr.
Celestia is invaded by hordes of demons. No longer a deity, Tyr fights for Celestia in the name of Torm. His fate is not clearly specified in this trilogy, although it is said elsewhere that he falls on the battlefield. Bahamut answers Torm's plea for assistance, and his draconic legions make the difference in destroying the demonic invasion. The demons are prevented from reaching the holy Lifespring, and Celestia is saved.
Tyr and Helm have an argument, which isn't specified in detail. The House of the Triad is divided, as Ilmater leaves to join Sune on her plane. The plane of the Triad is beset by chaotic storms, said to be a reflection of the conflict within the Triad, and more generally Tyr's anger. Tymora is said to have taken up residence in the House of the Triad, though she is troubled by feelings that she is being manipulated. The conflict is a source of confusion and chaos for most of the celestial (and mortal) denizens of the House of the Triad; Helm's celestials and faithful find themselves placed in a dubious "second class citizen" position, no longer fully trusted (by Tyr's faithful, mostly) and somewhat looked down upon. Tyr's celestials attempt to maintain control by focusing heavily on Law and an almost blind adherence to Tyr as the greater deity of the plane. Those who question strict adherence are questioned, not trusted, or at worst placed in banishment or "pleasant" prisons within the plane.
Helm is slain by Tyr. Tymora chooses to leave the House of the Triad afterwards, no longer sure of her own feelings and somewhat convinced that Cyric has been manipulating events between Tyr, Helm, herself, and perhaps other deities. Helm's celestials and faithful begin to lose their faith, some turning to Tyr and some turning to deities other than Tyr (like Torm).
In Dweomerheart, Cyric slays Mystra with Shar's help. In a Savras-inspired vision to the alu-fiend Aliisza, we learn that Shar distracts Azuth and her "agent" Kashada picks up the dropped staff. Kashada (later revealed to have been a separate aspect of Shar), hands the staff to Cyric who then brains Mystra with it. The attack itself, and the entities of Mystra, Cyric, and Shar, are not actually observed when this happens; in fact, no deity is seen "in person" or in avatar form throughout the entire series.
With Mystra's murder, Dweomerheart breaks apart. Many small "chunks" of the realm survive at least briefly (drifting in the Astral plane), and some of the inhabitants (celestials, demons, and other mortals) survive the initial destruction. Dweomerheart's dying planetars are at the core of these realm-remnants, and they disintegrate further as the planetar supporting it dies. Dying survivors of these "chunk" remnants who recover enough and can travel the Astral to another plane apparently survive, though it seems that celestials directly tied to Dweomerheart will eventually die no matter what. Additionally, in some cases, beings on the plane at the time of its destruction inherit potent "cerulean" magical powers (often deadly to oneself, as with Aliisza), or have merged in some way with other beings on the plane. Others remain as they were, but in danger of death as their planar chunk continues to disintegrate into the Astral.
The effects of Mystra's murder and the destruction of Dweomerheart are many. Some planes are vaporized, some planes are damaged, some planes are partially blended with other planes, and some new areas are created. Parts of the Hells and parts of the Abyss have dislodged and crashed into other planes, along with their inhabitants. The very large body of the deity Azuth is seen unconscious and floating adrift in the Astral plane. The World Tree is utterly destroyed. The mortal realms of Toril are affected (as described in the 4E sourcebook, but not described here). Spellplague energies damage people, celestials, devils, demons, and many locations on many planes, and "none know the full extent of the effects" (this is said between two angels, a short while after the murder). In some cases, the wild magic imbues a person or area with unique powers.
Tyr, Sune, and Lathandar (who has revealed himself as Amaunator) act in concert to imprison Cyric in his own realm. No further details on this are offered.
Tyr relinquishes his divinity to Torm. Torm accepts all of Tyr's celestials and faithful if they choose to follow him. Most celestials choose to follow Torm, although some lose faith and either lose their powers or choose to have faith in the "general" principles of Celestia.
The Home of the Triad becomes Celestia, headed by Torm. Ilmater returns to Celestia, to "help Torm with the transition to greater divinity" and cope with the loss of Tyr.
Celestia is invaded by hordes of demons. No longer a deity, Tyr fights for Celestia in the name of Torm. His fate is not clearly specified in this trilogy, although it is said elsewhere that he falls on the battlefield. Bahamut answers Torm's plea for assistance, and his draconic legions make the difference in destroying the demonic invasion. The demons are prevented from reaching the holy Lifespring, and Celestia is saved.
About Cyric attacking Mystra with Azuth's staff, it's not quite so direct as that, parts are unclear, and it's not really seen "in person" by anyone.
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Well, it is seen by someone, though in a vision, it is a bit difficult to determine how 'direct' that vision was.
Personally, I found a lot of stuff was vague, too 'matter of fact', and the manner of Mystra's death is pretty dumb (especially considering Savras apparently knew it was going to happen).
Oh, note too that it is mentioned at some point that Savras died when Dweomerheart was destroyed.
Well, it is seen by someone, though in a vision, it is a bit difficult to determine how 'direct' that vision was.
Personally, I found a lot of stuff was vague, too 'matter of fact', and the manner of Mystra's death is pretty dumb (especially considering Savras apparently knew it was going to happen).
Oh, note too that it is mentioned at some point that Savras died when Dweomerheart was destroyed.
18DELTA(CHOSEN OF HE WHO SMACKED MYSTRA WITH A STICK!)
I really enjoyed this series. Then again, I am the resident Cyricist...
18DELTA(CHOSEN OF HE WHO SMACKED MYSTRA WITH A STICK!)
LOL... smacked with a stick.
I actually liked the series too. The best parts, in my opinion, were that -
~ the gods are never directly seen, they're on another "level" altogether.
~ the gods are treated as mysterious and hard to fathom, even by angels who directly serve them.
~ the story was fast, like a rollercoaster.
~ the protagonists, especially Aliisza and Kael, were interesting and not simplistic.
~ I loved the return of
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Phauraun
the death of mystra vision of where she was spanked by cyric was said to be more symbolic than actual fact.
It wasn't her. It was Mask in disguise. Mystra knew about her impending death, Mask didn't really want to become part of Shar again, so they devised a plan. It didn't go exactly right, but most of the major points worked. Of course, neither of them saw the spellplague coming, probably because they thought the other gods would step in before things could really get out of hand. Mystra basically blew apart her...self, and eventually reformed (completely mortal, with a new chance to live a normal human life) in the womb of the Simbul. Mask, well hopefully Kemp will sign a new contract with WoTC, and we'll find out. :P
anyway, the self sacrifice of Tyr, as well as him giving up his godhood after the death of Helm, certainly fit.
I wish there was a bit more explaining why the death of Helm happened in the first place, but I can deal. And of course, I can just work things so he's back in my realms. :P not that it does me much good when I'm at the table as a player...
the death of mystra vision of where she was spanked by cyric was said to be more symbolic than actual fact.
Says who?
Oh, yeah some guy on the interwebs...
18DELTA(CYRIC IN MY MIND DID SMACKED MYSTRA WITH A PIMP STICK!!!111!!11!1!!!111) ;)
P.S. yes I know what the author said, I choose not to believe him.
the death of mystra vision of where she was spanked by cyric was said to be more symbolic than actual fact.
Didn't read that way. And Shar DID take the stick, so I assume Cyric did use it to smack Mystra.
Gomez
I haven't perused the WotC threads or posted here in quite a long time because of the prohibition on novel topics that once existed. I'm not even sure whether or not that ban is still in effect, but since I learned of this thread at the CandleKeep forums, and after wading through the nine-plus pages of posts, I felt the need to set the record straight. The passage in question in The Fractured Sky was NEVER intended to be taken literally. It was presented, at least in my mind, as a bit of symbolic imagery representing events beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. It was, as several others have tried to point out, a hazy vision. To be clear, I was actually given explicit instructions by my WotC editor to AVOID having my characters interact with the gods, indeed to avoid having said deities on-stage at all. If all that wasn't clear to some of you, that's unfortunate. My task with this trilogy was NOT to detail the events sketched out in the GHotR, but to exhibit a facet of how some of those events affected the various places in the multiverse. I needed to show that Cyric and Shar conspired to slay Mystra to advance my plot, but the question of how was never integral to my story. I did come up with the idea of Azuth's staff being a part of it -- I thought anyone who would dare try such a thing would need to incorporate a powerful artifact -- but the precise method was supposed to be left to the readers' imaginations. (Incidentally, there was never any discussion between my editor and me about Mystra coming to be imprisoned within the staff; as far as I'm aware, she is fully and truly dead, and it was my intention -- though never actually written -- that the staff was destroyed in the process. Also, my reasoning for Savras not foreseeing the event and stopping it was because he had a "hole" in his sight, since he would also perish as a result. There was no way to reveal that beforehand, though. You are more than welcome to adopt different interpretations to any of this if you see fit.) The book was originally supposed to be released this past Spring, before the 4E Realms setting (though I'm not sure if it would have predated the GHotR or not), but my own delinquency in getting the manuscript finished resulted in the date being moved back -- a result that serendipitously allowed me to incorporate Mystra's death as the climax of Book II, like I originally wanted, rather than in the middle of Book III, which felt much less dramatic to me. In hindsight, I'm not sure if it would have been better or worse to reveal Mystra's death for the first time to the public in my novel as opposed to in the game product. Certainly, it felt anti-climatic to me knowing that the reveal was already common knowledge while writing it, and I suspect many of you found it the same. I fear that many folks' already-formed opinions about her death colored your appreciation of its presentation in my novel. On the other hand, perhaps the scene just didn't work as well as I had hoped. Anyway, that's the deal, and now you know. Thomas
taken from here
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
I haven't perused the WotC threads or posted here in quite a long time because of the prohibition on novel topics that once existed. I'm not even sure whether or not that ban is still in effect, but since I learned of this thread at the CandleKeep forums, and after wading through the nine-plus pages of posts, I felt the need to set the record straight. The passage in question in The Fractured Sky was NEVER intended to be taken literally. It was presented, at least in my mind, as a bit of symbolic imagery representing events beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. It was, as several others have tried to point out, a hazy vision. To be clear, I was actually given explicit instructions by my WotC editor to AVOID having my characters interact with the gods, indeed to avoid having said deities on-stage at all. If all that wasn't clear to some of you, that's unfortunate. My task with this trilogy was NOT to detail the events sketched out in the GHotR, but to exhibit a facet of how some of those events affected the various places in the multiverse. I needed to show that Cyric and Shar conspired to slay Mystra to advance my plot, but the question of how was never integral to my story. I did come up with the idea of Azuth's staff being a part of it -- I thought anyone who would dare try such a thing would need to incorporate a powerful artifact -- but the precise method was supposed to be left to the readers' imaginations. (Incidentally, there was never any discussion between my editor and me about Mystra coming to be imprisoned within the staff; as far as I'm aware, she is fully and truly dead, and it was my intention -- though never actually written -- that the staff was destroyed in the process. Also, my reasoning for Savras not foreseeing the event and stopping it was because he had a "hole" in his sight, since he would also perish as a result. There was no way to reveal that beforehand, though. You are more than welcome to adopt different interpretations to any of this if you see fit.) The book was originally supposed to be released this past Spring, before the 4E Realms setting (though I'm not sure if it would have predated the GHotR or not), but my own delinquency in getting the manuscript finished resulted in the date being moved back -- a result that serendipitously allowed me to incorporate Mystra's death as the climax of Book II, like I originally wanted, rather than in the middle of Book III, which felt much less dramatic to me. In hindsight, I'm not sure if it would have been better or worse to reveal Mystra's death for the first time to the public in my novel as opposed to in the game product. Certainly, it felt anti-climatic to me knowing that the reveal was already common knowledge while writing it, and I suspect many of you found it the same. I fear that many folks' already-formed opinions about her death colored your appreciation of its presentation in my novel. On the other hand, perhaps the scene just didn't work as well as I had hoped. Anyway, that's the deal, and now you know. Thomas
taken from here
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
I think he did this pretty effectively. I was glad that the gods weren't wandering around talking with people, and that the whole thing was sorta symbolic. I agree that it also would have had a lot more "punch" if I hadn't known about the various gods and their general fates beforehand. But, that said, the semi-symbolic nature of it was handled well and I prefer that to actually seeing Cyric brain Mystra in person. If it had been in person, instead of a Savras-inspired vision, it would have made all the gods seem like really ultra-powerful NPCs instead of gods.
This reminded me that one of the things I especially liked was the fact that those who entered the vision caves of Savras all apparently had different visions, some more complete than others, with different perspectives. The idea that Savras himself probably was blind to it because his own ending was part of the premonition (perhaps until certain events made it unavoidable), is a pretty cool idea and could've been spelled out a little more. Maybe that's why Aliisza was "stuck" in the caves longer than others, because it wasn't something that Savras could see until certain events made it completely unavoidable.
For those who really are/were angry about Mystra's death, Helm's death, or Tyr's death, I can see how those things could easily color one's appreciation for the book series as a whole. I imagine that's probably one of the worst things about writing in such an old, shared setting as the Realms. Hard not to step on toes, because as DMs we have a sense of ownership for it.
Ok guys take that stuff to the Spam Club. Jorunhast worked hard on this to post information from those books, and if you guys end up getting this thread locked, I will kill you with Cyric's stick myself!
Truly this was a good series. The Thay series was good.
The 4E Novels are good. At least the ones I have read. I enjoyed them, and Cyric wasn't jumping out every other page like a boogie-man.
Downsides? The angels. The vision-or-not-vision (agh, I also would think it true events and not a silly vision). The whole Tyr-Tymora-Helm debacle.
If you read them for the story they are quite good. Now if you read them for the Lore, then you might be disappointed.
Actually, I read all of the FR novels for the story (the lore is just a nice bonus), and this trilogy didn't impress me one bit. Then again, I did read it alongside the other 3E ->4E and 4E novel series, so it had brutal competition. With the exception of Kael, pretty much all of the main characters felt burned out by the end of the second book, but that's just me. ;)
The 4E Novels are good. At least the ones I have read. I enjoyed them, and Cyric wasn't jumping out every other page like a boogie-man.
I agree. I've been surprised by the quality of the 4E and 3E -> 4E novels. A few duds have cropped up (The Fanged Crown, The Ghost King, the latter two Lady Penitent books), but for the most part it's been great. I still need to get my hands on Wrath of the Blue Lady and Realms of the Dead, though.
Dweomerhart was a really fun place to read about aswell, very much a carnival like merry place of wonder with curious architecture and inhabitants.
The scene with the deteriorating piece of Dweomerhart hurtling past a Giant form hued in a blue purple miasma (a dead/comatose Mystra or Savras?) was awesome aswell.
but I'm biased, I dislike the death of Mystra, not that I liked her all that much anyway....
I liked the settings of this novel series more than the characters, and Reid has a definate skill in imagining impressive vistas to chew on. I loved the scene where a drifting piece of Tyr's domain comes hurtling towards the island domain where Kaanyrs standing and Allizsa, Kael and Tauran feel compelled to resque as many petitioners as they can while Kaanyr rolls his eyes but aids aswell in the end.
Dweomerhart was a really fun place to read about aswell, very much a carnival like merry place of wonder with curious architecture and inhabitants.
The scene with the deteriorating piece of Dweomerhart hurtling past a Giant form hued in a blue purple miasma (a dead/comatose Mystra or Savras?) was awesome aswell.
The gigantic astral protoplasm that was cleaning up the disintegrating chunks of Dweomerheart, that was pretty vivid. Fascinating idea for a dangerous creature in the Astral. Almost like the Astral plane's version of a protoplasmic cory cat (bottom feeder fish) with huge tentacles, cleaning up the waste and debris.
I liked the settings of this novel series more than the characters, and Reid has a definate skill in imagining impressive vistas to chew on. I loved the scene where a drifting piece of Tyr's domain comes hurtling towards the island domain where Kaanyrs standing and Allizsa, Kael and Tauran feel compelled to resque as many petitioners as they can while Kaanyr rolls his eyes but aids aswell in the end.
Dweomerhart was a really fun place to read about aswell, very much a carnival like merry place of wonder with curious architecture and inhabitants.
The scene with the deteriorating piece of Dweomerhart hurtling past a Giant form hued in a blue purple miasma (a dead/comatose Mystra or Savras?) was awesome aswell.
The gigantic astral protoplasm that was cleaning up the disintegrating chunks of Dweomerheart, that was pretty vivid. Fascinating idea for a dangerous creature in the Astral. Almost like the Astral plane's version of a protoplasmic cory cat (bottom feeder fish) with huge tentacles, cleaning up the waste and debris.
You know, taking that imagery, and adding two words, in a hushed voice, sparked a campaign in my mind. Those two words: "It hungers."