For those who know it, we are going to do a campaign in it soon, and we're trying to figure out what edition would be the best conversion, 3E or 4E. Any ideas? Any specific suggetions would be awsome.
Thanks.
Looks like we'll have a holy slayer, a moralist cleric, couple corsairs, and maybe a desert rider ranger, mamluk, wizard, and faris. We'll be playing through all the boxes sets and some old Sinbad movie-inspired stuff.
I never understood the lack of interest in this world. Very well done and extremely rich.
Considering the political climate today, I guess we're trying exercise some sensitivities.
You could argue that all this is Hollywood-inspired fiction, the others may not agree with you lightly.
Having said that, Al-Qadim is a very rich setting.
For those who know it, we are going to do a campaign in it soon, and we're trying to figure out what edition would be the best conversion, 3E or 4E. Any ideas?
If you decide to pick 3E, you might find this pocket reference useful for locating 3E versions of Al-Qadim creatures (where they exist).
-Discussion about al-Qadim products, and about Zakhara in general go in the Forgotten Realms sections, FYI.
Zakhara (a setting that uses Al-Qadim rules) should belong in FR forum.
Al-Qadim is Arabian Adventures, like OA.
As for the setting - I've made huge headway with Kara-Tur this past week, and all the maps for it should be available over the next couple of weeks (hopefully a finished version of Shou-Lung by the end of today).
That means I will be starting ZAKHARA immediately after, and since I already have the northern part finished, and the region is WAY smaller then K-T and has less detail, it should be done by the holiday season.
I hope that will generate some interest in FR's 'Arabian' region, the way the K-T maps are for OA.
-Anyway, for a bunch of theorizing and brainstorming that a couple of people have been doing, check out THIS thread.
For those who know it, we are going to do a campaign in it soon, and we're trying to figure out what edition would be the best conversion, 3E or 4E. Any ideas? Any specific suggetions would be awsome.
Thanks.
Looks like we'll have a holy slayer, a moralist cleric, couple corsairs, and maybe a desert rider ranger, mamluk, wizard, and faris. We'll be playing through all the boxes sets and some old Sinbad movie-inspired stuff.
If you are interested in 4e, check out my conversion work over here http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-creations-house-rules/240388-forked-thread-al-qadim-land-fate-4e.html I have a "Holy Slayer" rogue build, "Moralist" cleric build, and "Mamluk" fighter build already up there, and my plan is to do the desert rider as a ranger.
If you are interested in the Pathfinder RPG or 3e, check out the piazza forum http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewforum.php?f=7.
I want to run a Kara Tur campaign at some point, too.
I'd prefer it was part of the Forgotten Realms setting than it's own world (which it was at first)
-Agreed. It gets a little "sticky" just randomly tacking it on, but sufficient time has passed to allow Zakhara to grow and metamorphisize with Faerûn and Kara-Tur.
I want to run a Kara Tur campaign at some point, too.
-I'd like that.
-Maybe I could run it.
I never understood the lack of interest in this world. Very well done and extremely rich.
For those who know it, we are going to do a campaign in it soon, and we're trying to figure out what edition would be the best conversion, 3E or 4E. Any ideas? Any specific suggetions would be awsome.
Thanks.
Looks like we'll have a holy slayer, a moralist cleric, couple corsairs, and maybe a desert rider ranger, mamluk, wizard, and faris. We'll be playing through all the boxes sets and some old Sinbad movie-inspired stuff.
4e could handle it. There will be a new class called Avenger (due out in PH2) that might be a divine class. Corsairs can be rogues and swordmages. Many of the classes can be refluffed and reskinned a bit to work in Al-Quadim.
Sinbad to me seems like it has fun over the top action so that works for how handle 4E games. If I did not have a current campaign and another two in the back of my head I may just consider doing something with this setting. Hmmmm...
There are many classes in 3E that could do the same.
Man I miss Al-Qadim. Without a doubt the most beautifully presented setting, and I consider the setting itself to be second only to Birthright for the old TSR crew.
Although I would strongly disagree with the latter part of that (Birthright is NOT D&D!), the world itself had a few good points, I must admit (in hindsight).
AS for the former, Al Qadim was done CORRECTLY - it had the Arabian flavor they were going for, yet still seemed fantastical and completely non-derivitive.
The guys who worked on Maztica and Kara-Tur could have learned a thing or two from the peeps who made that setting. I go back through it now, and it is just as good as any of the FR stuff that came out in 2e, and thats really saying something.
Although I would strongly disagree with the latter part of that (Birthright is NOT D&D!), the world itself had a few good points, I must admit (in hindsight).
AS for the former, Al Qadim was done CORRECTLY - it had the Arabian flavor they were going for, yet still seemed fantastical and completely non-derivitive.
The guys who worked on Maztica and Kara-Tur could have learned a thing or two from the peeps who made that setting. I go back through it now, and it is just as good as any of the FR stuff that came out in 2e, and thats really saying something.
The only problem I have with it ... it's in 2e.
As for BR, until Fields of Blood I have not yet come across a more simple way of running realm management.
As for BR, until Fields of Blood I have not yet come across a more simple way of running realm management.
-Hand wave it. ;) :P
Its magic. :D
Also: I've mentioned this in the Utter east thread, but it's more appropriate here - I just found out that EVERYTHING in the 2e Complete Book of Necromancers is Al-Qadim (Zakhara) canon.
Very cool, indeed - that means FR has an "Isle of the Necromancer Kings".
Yes, as @nal-retentive as I am, I've never felt the need to 'micro-manage' all of FR's kingdoms.
Its magic. :D
Also: I've mentioned this in the Utter east thread, but it's more appropriate here - I just found out that EVERYTHING in the 2e Complete Book of Necromancers is Al-Qadim (Zakhara) canon.
Very cool, indeed - that means FR has an "Isle of the Necromancer Kings".
Man, all of this is reminding me how much better the TSR writers were than the WotC crew. Fluff wise, 2e was without a doubt the Golden Age of DND in my eyes.
tough TSR had hundreds of unnecessary products, including some FR, like multiple books on the same place
Did they really need to detail it in every single edition? Couldn't they come up wiith some other city to write about?
Or was that just 'too creative' for them?
People complain about the amount of material there was in FR - but it was always the SAME places and things being covered over and OVER again.
Anyhow, I would agree that 2e was definately "the Golden Age" of D&D; We'll never see it's like again.
....Let me be the one in the crowd to open his mouth and ask... What is Al Qadim? Sounds like a terrorist group on CNN.
...
Let me be the one in the crowd to open his mouth and ask... What is Al Qadim? Sounds like a terrorist group on CNN.
-Zakhara. al-Qadim is the product line.
http://www.al-qadim.com/index.html
-I'm sure you know that, but...
-To make this more relevant to the topic, al Qadim is an Arabesque setting, not an Indianesque setting.
You know... his brother is Bob Qadim. :D
-At least get your racial stereotypes right, man. al Qadim is Arabic (It means 'The Old [in a food sense]).
According to my rather well-worn copy of the book, Al-Qadim means "the Ancient". It's a reference to the Djinni and the gen that reside in the lands of fate and the kingdoms long since passed that pepper the landscape in places not often travelled. Although if memory serves, Al- can also mean "of" which would make it "of the Ancient", which gives it a much more poetic feel.
I'm rather fond of the setting, but I haven't got a body of players capable of adventuring there. And since no one else has the interest in an arabic D&D setting, my books sit lifelessly there on the shelf.
...
Let me be the one in the crowd to open his mouth and ask... What is Al Qadim? Sounds like a terrorist group on CNN.
If that meant to be a joke, that's a stale one.
The ridiculous quote above rank right up with the old lady's at John McCain's rally last year, who said she won't vote for Obama because he's "an A-rab."
According to my rather well-worn copy of the book, Al-Qadim means "the Ancient". It's a reference to the Djinni and the gen that reside in the lands of fate and the kingdoms long since passed that pepper the landscape in places not often travelled. Although if memory serves, Al- can also mean "of" which would make it "of the Ancient", which gives it a much more poetic feel.
I'm rather fond of the setting, but I haven't got a body of players capable of adventuring there. And since no one else has the interest in an arabic D&D setting, my books sit lifelessly there on the shelf.
Qadim is used for "Old", "Ancient" and such. Mostly used for things, not people, but there are exceptions, like a student who should have finished say two years ago.
I dunno' about Al- being used for "of" and a very quick look through my copy of Arabic Around the World didn't help much.
-Joni
According to my rather well-worn copy of the book, Al-Qadim means "the Ancient".
-The old...The ancient...Two two are synonymous. It is used in the sense as in old food, though.
I dunno' about Al- being used for "of" and a very quick look through my copy of Arabic Around the World didn't help much.
-I've heard the term used as 'of' and 'the'.
-The old...The ancient...Two two are synonymous. It is used in the sense as in old food, though.
I believe it's a reference to either the Djinni or the hand and eye of Fate, not the place itself. Considering that both can be thought of as "the Ancient", it makes alot more sense. Although the timeless nature of the deserts and oases of Zakhara would hint at an ancient origin as well.
I believe it's a reference to either the Djinni or the hand and eye of Fate, not the place itself. Considering that both can be thought of as "the Ancient", it makes alot more sense. Although the timeless nature of the deserts and oases of Zakhara would hint at an ancient origin as well.
-Either or makes sense, in both a metagame and in-game sense.
And because English doesn't have a proper genitive case, a single Arabic word in the genitive will usually be translated into English using the word "of" before it, requiring two words where Arabic only needs the one.
When Arabic uses the definite article with a noun in the genitive case, the English translation will often drop the definite article but insert an "of". But the al doesn't mean "of", the al is just simply not being translated, while the "of" is being added to reflect the genitive case of the noun.
I believe it's a reference to either the Djinni or the hand and eye of Fate, not the place itself.
Which could explain why I have it down that 'Qadim' means 'Fate' - I may have confused 'the Ancient' with Fate; or more likely, I read it somewhere (an Al-Qadim site?) where somone else did just that.
Still, I haven't been able to locate any reference to the name in the past three days (not that I'm trying overly hard).
Edit:
Pg. 156 (the Glossary) of the Al-Qadim sourcebook (NOT the boxed set) -
al: the (definition article). As a prefix, it may also mean "the house of" or "the tribe of."
Sadly, nothing on 'Qadim' or 'Zakhara', although the 'har' may have a meaning similar to 'home'.
Hopefully, the Stars were Right in the Spellplague, and that which was not Dead did not Eternal lie...
One problem though, my players couldn't get it! Whether it was poor DMing on my part or just some inability to get past traditional western fantasy tropes I don't know.
Could never get an Al-Qadim game to last longer than three sessions.
Yup, like Waterdeep.
Did they really need to detail it in every single edition? Couldn't they come up wiith some other city to write about?
Or was that just 'too creative' for them?
People complain about the amount of material there was in FR - but it was always the SAME places and things being covered over and OVER again.
Anyhow, I would agree that 2e was definately "the Golden Age" of D&D; We'll never see it's like again.
First Al-Qadim was awesome, the whole idea was fantastic. Also with all the source material how can 2e ever truly be gone. Before TSR was bought they put out more source books of just about everthing from Space to Charlemagnes Paladins.
Could never get an Al-Qadim game to last longer than three sessions.
You're lucky. My players wanted nothing to do with it. And finding a DM to run it so I could play? Yeah, right.
so I changed it a lot, into the continent of the undead
It was inspired by the Warhammer's undead, Mulhorand was moved there, it had the Book of the Dead theme, and the River of Blood, Anubis etc. Unther also, with the servants of Thasmudya, Ereshkigal and Nergal. Isle of Sahu had a bigger influence, the land of Nog was still ''alive''. There were parts of Ashton Smith's Zothique and Herbert's Fremen (collecting blood). Alhazred was with the Twisted Rune, there were colonies and lands of the Shoon dynasty that outlived the empire. Northern border areas had Planescape's Dustmen influenced by Bardo Thodol, they ran the city of Manifest (Ghostwalk). Every now and then some warlord appeared wearing the Crown of Horns. Velsharoon had a realm like Kyuss. There was the Ebon Triad of Orcus, Iyachtu and Shar against the half-dead thri-kreen of Jergal and the bonesingers of Finder. Kiaransalee's Kandelspire wasn't on Guldor but here. The campaign also involved the Doomguard, Aerenal (conflict with Kanchelsis) and undead corsairs (a bit like Lhaazar principalities). The teachings of the Loregiver only just started, those were ''the points of light'' before I ever heard of the concept.
so I changed it a lot, into the continent of the undead
So you used the maps? Or did you just replace it with your own material? Sorry, I'm having trouble understanding...
I also wanted to have my setting to make more sense cuturally, so Estagund and Var got swapped-out for Calimshan (with Amn and Tethyr being where Mulhorand was).
I also wanted to have my setting to make more sense cuturally, so Estagund and Var got swapped-out for Calimshan (with Amn and Tethyr being where Mulhorand was).
Changing the location of nations so they make sense from a cultural standpoint I can understand. But you didn't gut the whole thing because "players didn't find it appealing" and then say how great the setting was. Or did I miss something?
Everything one can find in the official setting - the NPCs, locales, organizations, etc.. are all there... sometimes you just have to look a little harder for them, because I also added-in quite a lot (several entire nations, in fact - I made the continent bigger).
Also, IMG, Tuigan are Hobgoblins. There are some human tribes, but I prefer the 'Hordes' in a fantasy setting to be Goblinoids.
Also, IMG, Tuigan are Hobgoblins. There are some human tribes, but I prefer the 'Hordes' in a fantasy setting to be Goblinoids.
Speciest.
I'm kidding. I made a a couple of Al-Badia tribes wholly goblinoid.
However, in the K-T stuff I'm developing I have to stick closer to canon, so the Tuigan are human and inhabit the Wastes, and the Goblinoids inhabit the northern Horse plains (and have spread south recently), which leaves everything intact. That way, I didn't change anything; I merely added stuff on top of the canon material (and made the historic Kalmyk a Goblinoid Horde).
I also only modified the stuff along the northern coast of Zakhara - the 'Free Cities'. Thats my 'Mulhorand' area (right next to the Tomb-King region, as it should be). The rest of Zakhara is the same (although I had moved it early on to the end of Calimshan, I decided that moving Calimshan instead was the better way to go).
the northern part of the map is mostly the same, the southern looks too tentaclely
moving Calimshan to Var is interesting ...
Basically a vast region (those three countries) completely surrounding (and somewhat cut-off) by high Mountains (similar to Halruaa). Like I said, I keep changing my mind about whats there, but I know evil dwarves (Derro) live in the mountains, and are actually part of the empire (so they control the three main tunnels in). Ergo, most visitors arrive by sea, and are made to either stay on their ships, or must not leave the port town (for major ports). Beyond that, its pretty up-in-the-air unless some of my players head that way. I'm also toying with the idea of a renaissance-level culture, but with 'gothic' magi-tech rather then steam-power (which is used, but only secondary to the Spellcrux's).
I could even use a historic FR civ (just like the paid designers do :P ) and go with the Shoon Imperium - thats about the 'feel' I wanted anyway (minus all the middle-eastern crap). Dirty-dealing with Derro, Drow, Sharans and Loviatarans, slavery, etc....
Yeah... Shoon, without the flying carpets & turbins... :D
Funnily enough, my players can't get *enough* AQ. The Friday night group round robin DMs, usually Cthulhu of some type. My AQ was the first one to come back for seconds. And thirds. And fourths.
Lotsa fun.
What ended up happening was that I had 2 players who wanted to keep it going, so together we played a campaign that spanned over a hundred adventure and about 4 years of real-life time. It was easily the greatest campaign I've ever run.
The adventure boxes are incredible, too. Golden Voyages is an epic sea-faring quest. A dozen and one adventures is just awesome, I've never seen a product with more usable material. The city of Brass was great, too, my one player was able to keep the albino Nightmare as his mount in that one adventure. He treasured that nightmare like little else. And then there was the geomancer box late in the series, that was just incredibly epic and inspired.
Al Qadim is criminally under-rated. Just the Sha'ir class concept alone makes the whole setting a worthy exercise.
Al-Qadim was probably the most comprehensive yet cohesive campaign setting ever produced by TSR. It was magnificent in its simplicity, and yet one of the most flavorful settings ever.
In my own mapping project, I recently ran into an unexpected snafu becuase of Al-Qadim's rather unique cohesion. The maps I create are an amalgam of the 3e style and scale with the older 2e map's terrain and locations. Since the proportions of things have changed often, between editions as well as within certain product lines (like the Volo's Guides), I was able to 'fudge' quite a bit, since I had so many different 'canon' scales to chose from.
Even when I got into the east and began Kara-Tur, I didn't have to worry about scale - the offical maps were changed 3 times, and in the case of the Island nations the scale was changed 4 times! This means I can basically do what I want, as long as it falls between the highest and lowest numbers, and gives me quite a bit of 'artistic freedom' to 'dress-up' certain areas.
I had NO such leeway where Zakhara was concerned - EVERY map produced for that setting was on precisely the same scale as every other, and even the map in the FRIA was exactly proportionate to those maps in the Al-Qadim line! I have never seen such perfect cohesion within a setting before.
I had no room to 'fudge' anything, nor did I want to - I wound-up having to fudge the 'neck' that connects the three continents in order to keep Zakhara precisely the same scale as it was on the original maps. I could have slighlty shrunk Zakhara to fit better with the 3e version of Faerûn, but out of respect for the amazing cohesion of the setting, I did not want to do so. That is the only area on any of my maps that will be 100% compatible with the official maps that came out all those years ago.
Al-Qadim was just THAT GOOD.
I like the cosmopolitan feel of its cities, with its typical mixup of human, demi-human, and monstrous humamoid races living side by side with near to no problems. Religions were interesting aswell, as most races accepted the prophecy of the Lorebringers Scrolls and believed in Fate and the gods beneath her. They all shared the same moral structures as their neighbours.
I think I might go and watch Alladin again. Always wanted to adapt parts of that Lionmouthed Sandcave he entered to a dungeon in D&D. I think that the story of newest Prince of Persia game can also give some inspiration to adapting the setting more towards fun play. Its use of a dark corruption spreading over the land can be easily explained by the shadowfell spoiling into the deserts.
The beauty of the setting (and old-school FR) was the subtely of everything. The new 'sledge-hammer' approach to design is very... disturbing...
I've recently picked up the Hackmaster game core books (since my 2e PH and DMG are long gone), with the intention of running some of my friends now through Cities of Bone and seeing where things go from there. For all its silliness, I find I really miss 2nd edition . . . and for those who are unfamiliar with it, Hackmaster is fully compatible with 1e/2e, and is many respect is a much more organic derivative from them than 3e D&D was. Hackmaster's style tends to be much more of an old school 'kick in the door, kill what's behind it, and take their stuff' than many of us would like, but the rules are solid and actually fill in a lot of the holes 2e had.