This is my first time posting on this forum but im a long time lurker, and I need some assistance. Ive recently been asked to begin DMing a campaign as our previous DM has been wanting to take a break from doing it for so many years. I gladly took up the torch but... I have only ran 2 pregenerated Modules.
Im attempting to begin a new campaign in the Forgotten Realms and I could use some help as while its the setting we are all most familiar with, I am not as knowledgeable about it as I would like to be. The campaign im starting will be based around Lathander and the Rising Sun section. My idea is to have a cleric of the Brotherhood of the Rising Sun attempt to restore Amaunator as the Sun Lord. From what I can gather, Amaunator is now floating dead in the Astral Plane. The Cleric from the brotherhood would try to perform a ritual to revive Amaunator in preparation for the completion of the Church of Amaunator in 1374DR.
I would also try to incorporate Mask into the picture as I believe he would fear the return of Amaunator. Any thoughts on how to incorporate him in would be helpful as I know very little about him. Since he is all about deception, my main hook was to have him fool a Paladin of Lathander into slaying the priest who is trying to undertake the return of Amaunator.
Mainly I would like some assistance with
1. The campaign is going to start with the PC's as level 1. Im having trouble creating a good campaign hook to start. I was thinking the Paladin mentioned above could be sent on a quest to find a relic of Amaunator to aid in the ritual.
2. I know very little about mask and how he tends to work. Also if there are any organizations specifically for Mask that would help as Im not quite sure how to get him involved.
Anything else you feel like I am leaving out, or not concidering please let me know. I really would like this to be a fun campaign as it is the first one Im creating from scratch.
Thanks ahead of time for all the assitance.
Your campaign and mine sound similar. Nice to see someone else going in the same direction.
I would offer as a suggestion the following for your campaign (not necessarily for 1st level play, but something to work towards).
Your can put your players on a quest to find an artifact or spell that will re-link Aumanator's home plane (The Keep of the Eternal Sun) back into the Faerûnian cosmology.
Alternatively, you could have them search for ways to get to that lost plane, so they can find artifacts or items of faith belonging to Aumanator and return them to the prime.
Or you can have your players seek the spirits of ancient Paladins and Clerics of Aumantor's faith who are trapped in the lost plane and who know the locations of lost or burried relics on the Prime.
Another idea would be to re-write the adventure arc for the Cormyr, Shadowdale, Netheril adventure trilogy so that it focuses on Aumanator instead of Mystra. There are already elements of Aumantor's faith that can be found in the adventures that you can use.
Best of luck to you and hope to hear more of what you end up doing!
:D :D :D
You could just say Beshaba approached a 'kindred spirit' for help - Mask - and he is acting on her wishes in order to prevent the rise of Aumanotor.
What Beshaba doesn't realize (and Mask probably does) is that the rise of the new sun wil not effect her own existance in any way. But Mask just wants her to owe him a favor...
And if he can do that, while also hurting the 'good guys', so much the better. Also, with Cyric acting all nuts (and perhaps out of the picture, depending on your time frame), Mask is going to be looking for new allies, and ways of increasing his power by making deals with other gods.
Some more ideas:
You can get onto the astral plane and battle githyanki for Aumanator's deific corpse.
You can battle shadovar in the sands of Anourach for artifacts and relics holy to Aumanator.
I have FR adventures from sourcebooks and Dungeon magazine issues I need to look up for your reference that you can use.
Your can put your players on a quest to find an artifact or spell that will re-link Aumanator's home plane (The Keep of the Eternal Sun) back into the Faerûnian cosmology.
Alternatively, you could have them search for ways to get to that lost plane, so they can find artifacts or items of faith belonging to Aumanator and return them to the prime.
Or you can have your players seek the spirits of ancient Paladins and Clerics of Aumantor's faith who are trapped in the lost plane and who know the locations of lost or burried relics on the Prime.
At least one of those sounds interesting and I will definitely keep those plot options in mind!
If you need a Mask tie-in, perhaps you should use Beshaba as well. She was created during the Dawn Cataclysm (though not directly by it), and if lathander tries to pull a Dawn Cataclysm Part Deux, Beshaba might be worried that she will be merged back with Tymora into Tyche as a result of that powerful cosmic magic (with Lathander merging into Aumanator).
Another great suggestion, do you know where I can find more info about the Dawn Cataclysm? There is nothing in the Wiki about it and I know only a basic summary of what it was.
Mr Misc if your curious as to what I plan on doing with the campaign I decided to have it start in Baldurs Gate. It seemed to be a good spot as the Guildmaster for the thieves guild is said to be a follower of Mask and south of Baldurs Gate is a Large town by the name of Beregost. Beregost holds a temple to Lathander and are the "goverment" in the town.
1. I'd drop the Mask tie in and go for Shar instead. The reason being Amaunator and Shar were natural enemies during the time of Netheril, one being the deity of the sun and the other of darkness. The entire Church of Shar, if they found out about this, would be all over it to put an end to it. This, of course, then lets you tie Selune into it as well.
2. The heresy more-or-less is that Lathander -is- or will -become- Amaunator. The Church of Lathander is very divided about this heresy, but in general the higher ranking folks are against it. Lathander himself has been silent on the matter.
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As to your main problems. Well, it largely depends on your group of PCs. What are their classes and backgrounds? You're going to end up running a campaign focused highly upon Lathander's Church. You have to determine if you want your PC's to be pro-Amaunator or anti-Amaunator. Then you have to consider what happens if the group becomes divided with some being pro and others anti, as well what happens if the group decides to go one way when you wanted them to go another.
The easiest way to deal with that, though, since I am assuming they haven't started yet, is for them to all start off as members of either the Church of Lathander or the newly created Church of Amaunator in Eversult. They could either be pilgrims to Eversult, newly pledged paladins or clerics or the like.
Alternatively, if the Church of Amaunator does not yet exist in your world, and you want them to be pro-Amaunator have them be henchmen of Sunlord Daelegoth Orndeir. They can either be members of the Brotherhood of the Glorious Sun or recent converts made by Orndeir.
But it all depends on where you want to take the story.
This morning I just can't remember.
Mask wasn't considered one of the tri-partite gods with Lathander and Aumanator, was he?
This morning I just can't remember.
-IIRC it was Nergal. ;)
-Lathander = Dawn
-Aumanator = Midday
-Nergal = Dusk
-Right, Wrong, Maybe?
18DELTA
Another great suggestion, do you know where I can find more info about the Dawn Cataclysm? There is nothing in the Wiki about it and I know only a basic summary of what it was.
It was from the Rotten Luck sidebar on page 49 of F&A.
There is more about the Dawn Cataclysm spread around in that source and others, and another full-page sidebar/vingette in GHotR - but none of them give any details about it - just some vague references to a power-grab attempt by Lathander that screwed a few things up for other gods.
BTW, after looking up Beshaba, I realized she already is an ally of Mask! Also, Mask has taken to following Shar as well, so you could work all of this as several evil gods with a vested interst in seeing Lathander fail at becoming Aumanator - and Mask is the guy who is in charge with "getting the job done".
Then, if you want, you're campaign can escalate over time, so that when your PCs foil all of Mask's attempts, Shar herself has to step in.
I also worked out that Mask may actually be an aspect of Shar that broke away (similar to the splitting of Tyche). Shar used to hold most of Mask's portfolios during the time of Netheril, including dominion over thieves. Mask has never revealed his identity, even his gender - he could be a woman. (But even if not - it's not like it really matters.) It could be a cool 'reveal' - the players defeat Mask, remove his mask... to see Shar. Then the essence goes to rejoin Shar, making her even more powerful - realizing that she was manipulating the PC's all along to regain her lost essence that had broken away.
-IIRC it was Nergal. ;)
-Lathander = Dawn
-Aumanator = Midday
-Nergal = Dusk
-Right, Wrong, Maybe?
18DELTA
-Nope.
Lathander: Dawn
Amanataur: Noon
Jergal/Bhaal/?: Dusk
I would also try to incorporate Mask into the picture as I believe he would fear the return of Amaunator. Any thoughts on how to incorporate him in would be helpful as I know very little about him. Since he is all about deception, my main hook was to have him fool a Paladin of Lathander into slaying the priest who is trying to undertake the return of Amaunator.
-That would work. The Risen Sun is a heresy, and was pronounced so by Lathander himself, and his high clergy. As such, if you are going to have the worshiper of Mask (or Mask himself) fool the worshipper of Lathander, that'd work. As demonstrated in the novel Shadowstorm, we know that the acolytes of the Risen Sun and the mainstream Lathanderite faith don't really like each other.
1. The campaign is going to start with the PC's as level 1. Im having trouble creating a good campaign hook to start. I was thinking the Paladin mentioned above could be sent on a quest to find a relic of Amaunator to aid in the ritual.
-You can have it start with the mundane, believe it or not! Depending on who the other PCs are, you can have the earlier levels center more around them, and not the Paladin. Then, when you think they're of sufficient level to start the Amaunator stuff.
2. I know very little about mask and how he tends to work. Also if there are any organizations specifically for Mask that would help as Im not quite sure how to get him involved.
-The 2e sourcebook Faiths & Avatars has the most information on Mask, and the 3e sourcebook Faiths & Pantheons has a condensed, 3e update on all of that. If you don't have either, I'd recommend the former. You can download it as a .PDF file for around $4 from Paizo.com.
-Anyway, you can have the follower of Mask (or Mask himself!) be working solo. He's just some agent of Mask (or Mask himself!) who was told of what the follower of Amaunator is doing, and is weaving intrigue in order to stop it.
Lathander: Dawn
Amanataur: Noon
Jergal/Bhaal/?: Dusk
Also wrong. :P
Lathander: Dawn
Amaunator: The Sun (the entire sun - though most consider it to be "noonday sun" now)
Jergal/Myrkul/?: Dusk
Bhaal was simply the god of death, especially violent or ritual death. However, he was called the Lord of Murder, and many assumed that his portfolio was simply murder. (Not true!) It is also complicated by the fact that Cyric has the portfolio of murder, which is only an aspect of death. An aspect that Kelemvor really has no desire to claim.
That would work. The Risen Sun is a heresy, and was pronounced so by Lathander himself, and his high clergy.
To my knowledge Lathander has been completely silent on the matter. His most senior ranking clergy attempted to get him to confirm or deny it, but he would do neither. It is likely that Lathander has some ploy up his sleeve and is behind the Risen Sun Heresy, though for what purpose it is uncertain. Though Lathander has informed his most senior and loyal clergy, as well as Oghma, Chauntea and Mystra of his super secret plan that is likely the Dawn Cataclysm Redux. So I guess that is a major hint.
But you are right that right now there is a major break forming in the Church of Lathander.
The first is the Risen Sun Heresy. They believe that Lathander is going to transform from Dawn into Highsun. This is the main heresy that is getting all the attention, and the one being talked about here.
The second is the Three-Faced Sun Heresy. They believe Lathander is part of a larger tripartite deity, dealing with the various aspects of the sun. (Dawn, Highsun (Noon) and Dusk.) They believe that only two faces of the sun can be shown at any one time. So for example, dusk goes away when the face of the Dawn is showing. Then dawn eventually gives way to highsun, and then goes away, as highsun gives way to dusk. At any one time one portfolio is ascendant and the others descendant.
It is important to point out that these two heresies are not connected. Those who believe in the Three-Faced Sun are divided about what happens. Some believe Lathander will take on the aspect of highsun, and a new deity will arise to take the place of the dawn. Others believe a completely new deity will arise to claim the aspect of highsun. The confusion comes into play as some of them believe that Amaunator will be the deity that returns as the highsun deity.
The Risen Sun Heresy does not believe that at all, and in fact, would likely reject the Three-Faced Sun Heresy all together, or at least attempt to influence them to believe that Amaunator will be the deity that will replace Lathander.
They believe that Lathander himself is the reincarnated form of Amaunator, and take that belief one step further into heresy: They believe that Lathander is going to give way and return to being Amaunator. In my opinion, Lathander is behind this heresy, as he wishes to make some type of power play. (Reading his entry in Faiths and Pantheons certainly lends to that conclusion.)
1. I'd drop the Mask tie in and go for Shar instead. The reason being Amaunator and Shar were natural enemies during the time of Netheril, one being the deity of the sun and the other of darkness. The entire Church of Shar, if they found out about this, would be all over it to put an end to it. This, of course, then lets you tie Selune into it as well.
The tie in to Shar most likely would have been easier, but I chose to avoid this route, as our past DM (who will be playing in this campaign) used Shar in our last two campaigns. I just thought it was time for a new deity.
-The 2e sourcebook Faiths & Avatars has the most information on Mask, and the 3e sourcebook Faiths & Pantheons has a condensed, 3e update on all of that. If you don't have either, I'd recommend the former. You can download it as a .PDF file for around $4 from Paizo.com.
I posted this same threat (albeit under a different name
) over at ENworld and was told to look into the same book. I most likely will be dl it today.I just wanted to say thanks for all the responses. Ive gotten way more help here than any other places. I have some more questions if people are still willing to help. Based of what im gathering, should I rethink my plot of Reviving Amaunator? What would happen if the cleric succeeded in a ritual to return Amaunator from the Astral plane? Would he die immediately from lack of followers? Or how could I merge him with Lathander if I decided to go that route?
Once again, thanks for all the help.
The tie in to Shar most likely would have been easier, but I chose to avoid this route, as our past DM (who will be playing in this campaign) used Shar in our last two campaigns. I just thought it was time for a new deity.
Ah, I see. I have to agree - you don't want to overuse the same deity like that, it tends to become boring.
If you want to throw a twist into things, you can have Helm be the opposing deity.
We know that Lathander has some major plan in the works called "the Deliverance." This sounds a lot like the Dawn Cataclysm.
Murdane, the former goddess of Pragmatism, and Helm's lover was slain as a result of Lathander's plans which caused the Dawn Cataclysm. Helm, if he believed Lathander was planning another such event, would stand absolutely opposed.
Using Helm is an interesting choice. Helm is a Lawful Neutral deity whose followers run the gambit. He has Paladins, but he also accepts assassins and other such individuals. Albeit they are not your typical assassins, being that they wouldn't accept money for their work, but rather would assassinate to protect a nation they've dedicated themselves to watching over, for example. Such individuals would likely be pragmatic, seeing their work as a higher good: "Many would view my work as evil, and yet I have saved countless lives for every life I've taken. How many times would Cormyr have marched senselessly to war if not for my blade?"
This allows you to send a wide number of foes against your PC's - from Paladins to Assassins. Who doesn't like Paladin vs Paladin conflicts? :P
Based of what im gathering, should I rethink my plot of Reviving Amaunator? What would happen if the cleric succeeded in a ritual to return Amaunator from the Astral plane? Would he die immediately from lack of followers? Or how could I merge him with Lathander if I decided to go that route?
That's all up to you. I am personally fond of Lathander being behind the heresy, and tyeing it into his deliverance plot line. I see it at Lathander working to bring about a sudden shift in the power of the planes - where he undergoes a transformation, not unlike dawn moving toward highsun.
At the moment Lathander is a deity of youthfulness. He has a naive nature about him. He's playful - fun loving. Much like a child. However, as he ascends to become Amaunator, he would lose much of this, not unlike a child moving into adulthood. Their naivety is lost, replaced by pragmatism.
He'd likely become a sterner god, harsher in demeanor. Rather than transforming into an LN deity like the former Amaunator, he'd likely shift from being Neutral Good to Lawful Good. His Church, likewise, would also see a transformation.
I could easily imagine a LG Lathander, pushing aside naive thoughts, and taking a more pragmatic approach toward evil. In the sense: Root it out and destroy it. He'd likely ascend in divine power as well as a result of this move.
LG Lathander would likely support theocracies devoted to him, encouraging the worship of only other goodly deities and deities who are his allies: Selune, Chauntea, Oghma, Mystra would be the other main deities his Church would really tolerate.
They'd become much more militaristic, fighting endless crusades - against undead, against evil everywhere, and you could even see inquisition type style folks popping up in the Church.
The overall goal of Lathander would be to deliver the world from evil in a more permanent fashion, and to do that, he's heralded a new age - by transforming himself and taking on a new name. He'd still be the same deity, simply with a different outlook on life, some new portfolios and the loss of some old ones.
That is the route I'd go with it. So, in a real sense, Amaunator (the old one) is more dead than ever, another deity has simply taken up some of his old portfolios and his name. Or, alternatively, Lathander brings Amaunator back to life and merges with him.
If you need a Mask tie-in, perhaps you should use Beshaba as well. She was created during the Dawn Cataclysm (though not directly by it), and if lathander tries to pull a Dawn Cataclysm Part Deux, Beshaba might be worried that she will be merged back with Tymora into Tyche as a result of that powerful cosmic magic (with Lathander merging into Aumanator).
There's a problem with this one. Tyche's split was incidental to the Dawn Cataclysm. Tyche didn't take part in Lathander's plan, and was upset he didn't want to spend time with her - so she kissed him with misfortune and wandered off to do whatever it was she wanted to do at the time. During her travels she found a single rose growing on a mountain top, which she took to be a gift from Lathander to apologize for how he treated her. So she tried to pick it, and when its stem wouldn't break, she got a little upset and cursed it - whereupon it broke. So she picked up, and put it behind her ear and continued on her merry way (did I mention that Tyche was fickle and had a short attention span?). Unbeknowest to Tyche, the rose was actually Moander, and while she continued on, she was blithely unaware that the rose had begun to insinuate tendrils in her ear, and had begun to rot her from within. When Tyche got over her snit at Lathander, she went back to him. He was meeting with Selune (and I think Helm) at the time, and when Selune spotted Tyche... Well, the rot was obvious to her, being as she was a long time friend of Tyche too. So Selune split her with a bolt of purifying moon fire, before anyone could do or say anything. From the rotten husk that was once Tyche emerged Tymora and Beshaba, the two sides of the same coin - one merry and bright, the other dark and dangerous.
Mind you, there was a plot to merge them again - and it was Lathander who was behind it. The story is outlined in the novel Tymora's Luck, and is about Joel the Rebel Bard, priest of Finder Wyvernspur and how he foils said plot. (Lathander had been fooled by one of the gods of Faerun into believing he was actually a god of Krynn... and it also involves tinker gnomes.)
Beshaba doesn't always do everything for a reason. If you want her to be tied into the plot, perhaps she still feels a bit of spite over Lathander's neglect of herself as a part of Tyche and wants to make sure his Dawn Cataclysm Part Deux fails.
One idea I can contribute for the OP, to change things up a bit there's no reason why a good deity might not be opposed to Aumanator coming back. Chauntea, for example. Chauntea might think (and rightly so, IMHO) that bringing Aumanator back will, in essence, kill her lover Lathander (who doesn't seem to think anything of doing this despite their love). So she might send good adventurers and the like to stop the party from succeeding. She might enlist some of her ally deities to do likewise. Then you present the party with a moral dilemma - they're not just being opposed by evil, they're being opposed by good as well.
One idea I can contribute for the OP, to change things up a bit there's no reason why a good deity might not be opposed to Aumanator coming back. Chauntea, for example. Chauntea might think (and rightly so, IMHO) that bringing Aumanator back will, in essence, kill her lover Lathander (who doesn't seem to think anything of doing this despite their love). So she might send good adventurers and the like to stop the party from succeeding. She might enlist some of her ally deities to do likewise. Then you present the party with a moral dilemma - they're not just being opposed by evil, they're being opposed by good as well.
-Agents of Lathander's own Church might be the ones to attempt to stop the follower of Aumanator. Agents from any of the other Lathanderite heresies might be attempting to stop the follower of Aumanator. All three bang heads, all three technically the same religion. That's a moral dilemma.
-Agents of Lathander's own Church might be the ones to attempt to stop the follower of Aumanator. Agents from any of the other Lathanderite heresies might be attempting to stop the follower of Aumanator. All three bang heads, all three technically the same religion. That's a moral dilemma.
That is quite a brilliant idea.
Don't know why I didn't think of that myself.-Agents of Lathander's own Church might be the ones to attempt to stop the follower of Aumanator. Agents from any of the other Lathanderite heresies might be attempting to stop the follower of Aumanator. All three bang heads, all three technically the same religion. That's a moral dilemma.
Yes.
As well, as I pointed out, Helm would certainly be opposed as well.
I should point out that Chauntea already likely knows Lathander's plot, if in fact his plan to become Amaunator is also the Deliverance. Chauntea, Oghma and Mystra are fully aware of the details of the Deliverance and are in support of it.
One, being as that he used to have the 'Dusk' portfolio, and is the only deity still living that we know had possession of it, perhaps Jergal "knows" something that Lathander/the heretics do not, and that the Sun portfolio can return when the time is right, and not when someone actively peruses attempting to bring it back.
Two, Amaunator is dead in his Book of the Dead, and he's going to keep it that way, lest he have to cross Amaunator's name off.
He doesn't -necessarily- have to cross off Amaunator's name. Amaunator would still be dead, the only difference is that someone who is alive will be running around with his name. :P
He doesn't -necessarily- have to cross off Amaunator's name. Amaunator would still be dead, the only difference is that someone who is alive will be running around with his name. :P
-That's if you (or whoever the DM is) wants Amaunator to be a part of Lathander, and all of that stuff. I still prefer to think of them as separate entities, at least when canon is not concerned.
That's what I was saying - thus, why Jergal really wouldn't care. He is all about True Names, and whatever Lathander wants to call himself is pretty irrelevant when it comes to that.
Agents of Lathander's own Church might be the ones to attempt to stop the follower of Aumanator. Agents from any of the other Lathanderite heresies might be attempting to stop the follower of Aumanator. All three bang heads, all three technically the same religion. That's a moral dilemma.
I had already concidered something along those lines, granted I havent tried to flesh it out at all.
If the heretic is able to succeed, and Amaunator is resurrected, I am going under the assumption that it's actually going to be Amaunator coming back to life, not Lathander using his guise, or Lathander-Amaunator merged and reborn.
I hadn't really decided where to go with this, but I have more or less been working on the assumption the heretic would raise Amaunator himself. Whether he would merge with Lathander im not sure of at this point. Is there any canon released that reveals what actually comes of the whole Rising Sun Heresy? Im assuming there isnt as I expect I would have been told about it already. Maybe when the 4e FR book comes out it will reveal some info.
Is there any canon released that reveals what actually comes of the whole Rising Sun Heresy?
The final outcome? Not yet. We know Lathander becomes Amaunator, but not the "how" of it, or what happens with the Heresy.
-If the heretic is able to succeed, and Amaunator is resurrected, I am going under the assumption that it's actually going to be Amaunator coming back to life, not Lathander using his guise, or Lathander-Amaunator merged and reborn.
I'm going to take this one step further, and say Ra/Re is going to get folded into him/them as well.
They are making an active attempt of removing all RW gods from the setting, accept, perhaps, for those few that have alternate FR names already (like Baast/Sharess).
Tiamet also being another notable exception, given her presence in MUCH D&D lore.
I never really understood that 'divine border' concept that was represented by that map in F&A, since a priest of any god with a presence within Realmspace can receive spells ANYWHERE within Realmspace, regardless. Thats why I'm all for the new lore about one god masquerading as a another all these years - gods should NOT have ZOC's, just areas where they are stronger due to worship.
RW and D&D mythology is filled with gods encroaching on each other's turf, so the whole concept of a 'Mulhorandi pantheon (and others) always rubbed me the wrong way. Sure, different regions will venerate different gods, but that's just a mortal's point-of-view, and most of the time these will be the same gods operating under other aliases in those regions.
Note I said "most of the time" - less powerful deities (demi-gods) are just fine for local and civic powers, but those should be the ONLY ones confined to a certain area.
My view of the Dawn Cataclysm was that Lathander was attempting to use this to his advantage to knock off as many evil deities, and deities sympathetic toward evil deities as possible.
As a side note, it's important to remember that it is Lathander granting the heretic's their spells. They did not take the servant of the fallen feat. Thus, nothing is happening without Lathander's consent.
If I am not mistaken Amaunator is in the 4E Realms, and Lathander to our knowledge, is not. This seems to indicate that they either merged, Lathander took his identity, or Lathander died and Amaunator was resurrected.
I am also in agreement with Markus, and believe that Horus-Re will be folded into Amaunator.