By setting up in -25000 DR or so, they could place the default setting in a world untouched by any prior product, a world with dragons and giants and 'points of light' separated by vast untamed wildnerness. Best of all, it would be a world where the dragonborn are naturally sensible (as shown by the origins of the continent of Abeir in the chosen path) and tieflings are much more credible as a standard race. As an added bonus, for the first time ever, the term 'Forgotten Realms' would really make sense as the world of adventure would have been long forgotten by the world of the last twenty years adventuring community. Finally, it wouldn't require the destruction of so much of the future of the world that many creative talents labored to establish; instead, of a re-boot it would be a journey fantastic, into an uncharted world.
I am just curious, was this path considered? Could it yet be given a shot if not?
Kind of like pushing away an occasion to bring changes, a new slate yet all the same... An excuse to rethink and analyze the setting.
(not that your idea is not without merits - an age past.... But it also could bring canon issues.)
I wondered if rolling back the years was considered before the decision was taken to wipe out the present of the FR. If it was and was not elected, I would love to know why.
As a historian, the distant past is just as good as the future for writing up a 'clean slate'. After all, didn't one of our most famous fantasy sagas start with,
'A long time ago....
First, wrote a novel dealing with an invasion from Abeir, perhaps by Dragonborn or some other race.
Second, openly stated that they will not be publishing any Torillian based lore for 4th Edition, but rather the FRCS will be focusing on Abeir - another world within the Forgotten Realm's cosmology that has close ties with Toril.
The novels themselves can jump back and forth between them both. Think the Riftwar Saga by Raymond Feist.
1) didn't happen - not that it'd really effect your PCs unless you play a very long-lived campaign, but you could easily pretend it didn't happen and continue onwards, claiming that 4e evolved directly from the current 3e over the course of the past 400 and future 300 years or so (dragonborn becoming more accepted as with tieflings, warlocks more established, ect.), putting your campaign around 1600-something, with fresh faces and new identities. this'l probably require some stretches of the imagination from your PCs but if they're also not into the spellplague-thing, they'll most likely (happily) go along.
2) did happen, but not as nuts - instead of a complete system crash and unrecoverable core dump, the power supply broke and after a few decades of uncomfortableness, things got back to a typical realmsian start. the spellplague did hurt and did harm, but didn't ruin everything as 4e has let on.
3) additional ways, but it is dinner time and my mind has left me.
I am just curious, was this path considered?
-Don't know. Why not ask Rich Baker yourself and get to the root of the issue?
the spellplague did hurt and did harm, but didn't ruin everything as 4e has let on.
From all I've seen, I don't think the Spellplague ruined much. I mean, outside of certain lands being sucked into Abeir and all. Look at Cormyr. More or less the same, as you'd expect it to be 100 years in the future. It actually doesn't even feel that far in the future reading about it.
The Spellplague seems to have happened... and then skipped over. 'Yeah, it was bad. Forget it happened. We're not even going to fill in the blanks.'
I was worried after seeing that bit about Loudwater, but after seeing Cormyr and Chult, I'm actually encouraged. I think 4E Forgotten Realms might be playable, and even - in some ways, at least - more preferable to 3E.
...I was worried after seeing that bit about Loudwater...
uh oh. my players aren't going to be happy. that's where two campaigns are based out of - they know and love the locals and own several businesses around there. one PC, a fertility-zealous priest of lathander, uses his truly heroic adventuring earnings to support his well over 29 illigitimate children - he really 'loves' the realms, eh?
without getting into detail just what happens to loudwater? we're most likely sticking with 3e because we're getting older and more frugal with our dollars - you'd be surprised how when you're 17, you can buy every damn book there is, but when you're 27 it's all about car payments, bills, mortgages, ect.
I think 4E Forgotten Realms might be playable, and even - in some ways, at least - more preferable to 3E.
could you expand on this?
Sure. I'm looking at things this way. Judging from the previews the Spellplague, having happened so far in the past, is more-or-less a non-event. It's something that happened and the world has already recovered from. It all feels more-or-less similar to the old Realms, but after a face lift and attuning itself to the 4E Rules and Design Philosophy.
Now, over all, I like the 4E D&D Rules. So this gives me some reason to consider going with 4E Forgotten Realms, but there are some things I dislike about the 4E Realms.
However, WotC has clearly stated that they do not intend to fill in the time line between 3E and 4E outside of where it is needed.
I've always loved to tinker around with the Realms, but a major problem when modifying the setting was keeping it all together. You can begin working on something and then, some time later, find some peice of obscure information or lore that completely invalidates it all or ruins it entirely. You know the old: "Sure, you can place a town there, but then you have to deal with the huge number of Orcs in the region. Oh, and City Y would be at war with them... and you can't forget Epic NPC Z in City Y. You can't kill him, though because he holds the Powerful Lich King in check from invading City Y with his army of undead located over at X."
The 100 year time jump lets you fill in the blanks. It gives you more ability to mold the setting to fit your needs, instead of running into silly problems like the above, and you don't have to worry about destroying the integrity of the lore. There won't be much to destroy and you'd still have all the history from the previous twenty years to build upon.
For example: I may want to have Amn fall under the rule of Shoon. Doing that will be much easier with 4E than 3E because the "normal" obstacles that are faced when modifying the setting can easily be written out or eliminated.
In a very real sense the 4E Realms are easier to modify to suit a DM's needs, and thus there is less pressure to stay canonical. If I don't want all that Abeir crap in my Realm's I can remove it more easily. If I want Mystra back she could have come back in the past 100 years.
I am reminded of the old EverQuest tag line: "You're in OUR world now!" The 4E Forgotten Realms feels more like this: "You're in MY world now!" Meaning, I have more freedom and control over the setting than previously, and am no longer beholden to cannon in the same way that I once was.
Did the good folks in charge of our Realms consider setting 4th Edition in the distant past of the Forgotten Realms?
By setting up in -25000 DR or so, they could place the default setting in a world untouched by any prior product, a world with dragons and giants and 'points of light' separated by vast untamed wildnerness. Best of all, it would be a world where the dragonborn are naturally sensible (as shown by the origins of the continent of Abeir in the chosen path) and tieflings are much more credible as a standard race. As an added bonus, for the first time ever, the term 'Forgotten Realms' would really make sense as the world of adventure would have been long forgotten by the world of the last twenty years adventuring community. Finally, it wouldn't require the destruction of so much of the future of the world that many creative talents labored to establish; instead, of a re-boot it would be a journey fantastic, into an uncharted world.
I am just curious, was this path considered? Could it yet be given a shot if not?
Actually it would explain things by eventually revealing WHY Mystra was first formed and then would allow the return upon Mystra's destruction because by the time it occurs almost nothing would remains that remembered that past.
Now that would merit a series of scenarios that would make those used to lead into 4e from 3.5 make more sense if they revealed that they mirrored events from long ago setting up the return which in itself allow for some truly extraordinary storylines if they gave it any thought.
Did the good folks in charge of our Realms consider setting 4th Edition in the distant past of the Forgotten Realms?
I'd say just ask Rich Baker, if you haven't already. He might know.
They still wanted to use known landmarks like Waterdeep and others regions and wanted to sell more Drizzt and Elminster novels.
Good point.
PS: I noticed your signature. LK is not "anti-4E". I showed him the PHB myself, and he likes some of it.
All this will happen again.
I love the recognition that setting 4e in the distant past would allow the Realmslore to enjoy tremendous cyclical depth. It also, in the end, wouldn't invalidate the future (past) because so very many years stand between the two epochs.
For the current schema, there are PCs playing the Realms now whose realms will be annihilated, within their lifetime. It makes contemplating the leap forward something out of the Terminator.
I hadn't considered the Eliminster/Drizz't aspect and that alone might make the jump compelling for WOTC.
If so, more's the pity since having two eras to write in has done wonders for the marketability of the Star Wars universe. After all, Elminster doesn't need 4e rules to be a fun Merlin to write about. Drizz't doesn't need to be made into a 'dark elf' in order to enjoy a long history as a fictional character.
I really believe the dragonborn in particular make a ton more sense set in the era when dragons ruled the Realms, Elves were either slaves or High Mages, and Dwarves were just beginning to rebel from Giant domination to carve out their first kingdoms, all while humanity struggled on the fringes to make a place in the world. That sounds like a 4e world, and one where Asmodeus would be the prime evil mover.
I just don't care for how this was done.