First, there is the Three-Faced Sun Heresy and this is the one that causes the most confusion, it seems. These heretics believe that the sun is a tripartite overdeity, with aspects of dawn, highsun and dusk. They view this deity as a spinning prism viewed from the side. Thus, they believe, only two of the three faces can be seen at any time.
According to these heretics, during the Age of Netheril, Amaunator ruled as the aspect of highsun, while Jergal held the portfolio of dusk. After Amaunator faded away, Lathander appeared as the aspect of dawn, and Myrkul inherited the portfolio of dusk from Jergal. The Time of Troubles marked the fall of Myrkul and Lathander's brief moment of unchallenged dominance.
Now, here is where the confusion sets in it seems. These heretics believe that the time is upon them for the rise of Amaunator. They were divided with some believers suggesting that Lathander will become the new god of highsun and another would take his place as god of dawn, while others believed that a new deity would arise to take up the portfolio of highsun.
Second, we were faced with the Risen Sun Heresy. This is the main heresy that everyone knows about and confuses with the Three-Faced Sun Heresy.
It started with the Brotherhood of the Glorious Sun that existed within the church of Lathander who taught that Lathander was the reincarnated form of Amaunator. They were tolerated by the church, but then some of them took things one step too far by preaching that the time of Lathander's transformation was upon them and Amaunator was about to return.
It was then that Sunlord Daelegoth Orndeir became the leader of the Brotherhood of the Glorious Sun, and sought to make it the orthodox sect of the church of Lathander. In the Year of Lightning Storms (1374 DR), Daelegoth had begun to evangelize and recruit converts to the faith of "Amaunator" through preaching and performing miracles.
That is where the cannon left us with in Third Edition. What does this mean? Well it means that there were three factions within the Lathander Church. People have stated that it doesn't make sense for "Amaunator" to be Lawful Good in 4th Edition Forgotten Realms when he was Lawful Neutral during the reign of Netheril.
My response? It's because "Amaunator" is not "Amaunator" from Netheril, but a transformed Lathander. The Amaunator that was known during the time of Netheril is still dead, to be blunt, Lathander just picked over the corpse and took his stuff - including his name.
Speculation: Now, for my speculations. Lathander completely planned all of this to happen, and wanted it to take place. Lathander becoming Amaunator was the prelude for what he told his faithful would come: The Deliverance.
We've speculated upon this in the past and surmised that it would be just a repeat of the Dawn Cataclysm. I don't think so.
I believe the Deliverance has the same goal, yes, to deliver the world from evil and to reshape it toward Lathander's desires. However, I don't believe he intends to use the same methods.
No, Lathander has fundamentally changed. We've always known Lathander as a deity of youthfulness. He's always been full of idealism, and that often made him very naive. His heart was always in the right place, but frequently it caused things to go awry.
Lathander has completely transformed. He's gone from a naive youth to a cynical adult. His goals remain the same but his method in approaching them is different.
I imagine this new Lathander as being stern, even bordering on harsh, but still ultimately fair. I see him taking on the attitude of a warrior. Rather than trying to get you to see the error of your ways, if you are evil and harm others, he will simply smite you. Change or be changed through force is the new motto.
Lathander, or rather "Amaunator", in my view is no longer content to sit back and watch the world go to hell. He's picked up his blade, sounded the alarm, and is prepared to lead the world to war against evil and darkness.
This is how I view the new Lathander / "Amaunator". In a darkened world, filled with fading points of light, Lathander has stepped up to the challenge and is prepared to do whatever it takes to not only preserve what is left, but to completely remake the world in his image.
In other words...
Repent, turn away from evil, or be burned away by the blazing glory of the risen sun. ;)
[also, props for the post. it was informative.]
I would have loved to have seen him as the theocracy in Elturgard instead of Torm. Basically, draw inspiration from the Theocracy of the Pale from Greyhawk. Not as an@l, they'd allow other deities to be worshiped - in particular Selune, Chauntea and Oghma - but the Church of Amaunator would crack down on things hard. Like Inquisition style. ;)
"I've heard you've been consorting with demonic forces."
"No! It's a lie!"
"We'll see about that. The Questioners will determine your guilt or innocence."
:P
No crime, no sin and no evil deed goes unpunished!
Yes, I like it as well.
I would have loved to have seen him as the theocracy in Elturgard instead of Torm. Basically, draw inspiration from the Theocracy of the Pale from Greyhawk. Not as an@l, they'd allow other deities to be worshiped - in particular Selune, Chauntea and Oghma - but the Church of Amaunator would crack down on things hard. Like Inquisition style. ;)
"I've heard you've been consorting with demonic forces."
"No! It's a lie!"
"We'll see about that. The Questioners will determine your guilt or innocence."
:P
No crime, no sin and no evil deed goes unpunished!
Actually reading about Amanautor...he sounds just like the Netherese version...in fact LG sounds more like LN in his case....doesn't really sound like a mixture of the two....at least in the brief description....
Does the campaign guide actually give a date when he changed, and what happened when he did?
No.
Does the campaign guide actually give a date when he changed, and what happened when he did?
-Such a thing is "outside of time and space", like the Dawn Cataclysm, I am thinking.
Speculation: Now, for my speculations. Lathander completely planned all of this to happen, and wanted it to take place. Lathander becoming Amaunator was the prelude for what he told his faithful would come: The Deliverance.
We've speculated upon this in the past and surmised that it would be just a repeat of the Dawn Cataclysm. I don't think so.
I believe the Deliverance has the same goal, yes, to deliver the world from evil and to reshape it toward Lathander's desires. However, I don't believe he intends to use the same methods.
No, Lathander has fundamentally changed. We've always known Lathander as a deity of youthfulness. He's always been full of idealism, and that often made him very naive. His heart was always in the right place, but frequently it caused things to go awry.
Lathander has completely transformed. He's gone from a naive youth to a cynical adult. His goals remain the same but his method in approaching them is different.
I imagine this new Lathander as being stern, even bordering on harsh, but still ultimately fair. I see him taking on the attitude of a warrior. Rather than trying to get you to see the error of your ways, if you are evil and harm others, he will simply smite you. Change or be changed through force is the new motto.
Lathander, or rather "Amaunator", in my view is no longer content to sit back and watch the world go to hell. He's picked up his blade, sounded the alarm, and is prepared to lead the world to war against evil and darkness.
This is how I view the new Lathander / "Amaunator". In a darkened world, filled with fading points of light, Lathander has stepped up to the challenge and is prepared to do whatever it takes to not only preserve what is left, but to completely remake the world in his image.
In other words...
Repent, turn away from evil, or be burned away by the blazing glory of the risen sun. ;)
My take? Clerics/people in the faith of Lathander held on to the three sun crap crap and spread it throughout the church. Some bit, others didn't. In the end, there was such a revival of what Lathander was supposed to be that everyone forgot what he was--or got booted out of the church, should they otherwise disagree.
Lathander conformed to his followers wishes--taking on the idol-like traits given to him, rather than handing them down.
As for his demeanor... 100 years of watching the world destroyed and gods killed can do that to your perkiness.
That being said... yeah, I think the shift in personality that I described for Lathander is believable considering all that has happened. Besides, I like a god who is focused on getting the villains before they get you. ;)
Basically I view him as a god who is very proactive in hunting evil. It doesn't really matter what you're doing at the moment, if you've committed some sin or crime in the past and they find out, you're either going to repent or burn. Whichever comes first. I can also see a lot of people being drawn to such a religion with the threats now looming. After all, if you wait for the villains to act it may be too late to stop them.
Nah, the Three-Faced Sun Heresy people were WAY in the minority if I am not mistaken. The heresy that came to the forefront and is most discussed is the Risen Sun Heresy. It's just that sometimes people confuse the two and view them as the same. They are similar, but if you look closer it becomes obvious that they are very different.
That being said... yeah, I think the shift in personality that I described for Lathander is believable considering all that has happened. Besides, I like a god who is focused on getting the villains before they get you. ;)
Basically I view him as a god who is very proactive in hunting evil. It doesn't really matter what you're doing at the moment, if you've committed some sin or crime in the past and they find out, you're either going to repent or burn. Whichever comes first. I can also see a lot of people being drawn to such a religion with the threats now looming. After all, if you wait for the villains to act it may be too late to stop them.
Perhaps. As it turns out, its all how people wanted it seems.
Here's how I'm picturing him IMG -
Weak, dude. Very weak.
I even changed the reflection in his glasses to read 'Lathander'.... BACKWARDS!
Hey, do you have any idea how long that just took?
I even changed the reflection in his glasses to read 'Lathander'.... BACKWARDS!
AHAHAHHAHHAHAahaHAHaAAH!!!
Yes, I do. That's why I don't slave for the board--aint worth it. Find those quick and easy jobs. You know...like, Cyric's symbol and sh*t. ;)
EDIT: GOOD BEJEBUZ!!! Ok, good job. Now f*ck off, you goonie! ;)
So no one else appreciated all the work I put into that?
Next time you all get Homer in a Cyric Symbol!
;) :P
So no one else appreciated all the work I put into that?
Next time you all get Homer in a Cyric Symbol!
;) :P
-I appreciated it. Put in in the Forgotten Realms Humor thread.
I was playing on the whole "I'll be back" thing! :D
C'mon guys...
I was playing on the whole "I'll be back" thing! :D
Hasta la manana, baby.
Humor: BOOOOOOO!!!
J/K - pretty funny
C'mon guys...
I was playing on the whole "I'll be back" thing! :D
It was art. Can't let you just walk in and think you got it or anything. ;)
Good job.
And I'm aware of the vulgarity thing. The fact that I had a post removed because I wanted to play football in Karsus's head has simply made me a bit testy of late.
I mean... I suppose there's plenty of room and all...
;) :D :P
Play Football in Karsus' head?
I mean... I suppose there's plenty of room and all...
;) :D :P
And that's exactly why it got stripped. I said we should build a field in there. ;)
He hates football.
After Baldur's Gate 2, and having to spell his name right or get burned, I have an odd fear of Aumantor.
I'm right there with ya. Especially since you just did it again.
Ctl + C, then Ctl + V do wonders, I assure you. ;)
After Baldur's Gate 2, and having to spell his name right or get burned, I have an odd fear of Aumantor.
-Burned.
-Burned.
Like I said... Never liked that puzzle.
It's Judgement day. :D