Anybody interested in detailing a small town?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

straploknight

Nov 25, 2007 19:21:56
This idea came to me a few days ago, and another thread reinforced the idea to make a colaberative effort in exhuastively detailing from scratch a small town placed somewhere in Faerun.

Anybody interested?
#2

Dark_Wizard_02

Nov 25, 2007 21:13:37
I'd be interested in seeing how this comes out.
#3

green_elven_vampire

Nov 25, 2007 21:24:07
What kind of town? What kind of population? Elves, half elves, dwarves, humans, etc... etc...
#4

merrikcale

Nov 25, 2007 21:28:02
howzabout a drow nudist colony?
#5

straploknight

Nov 26, 2007 15:34:25
Good idea Merrik, you've almost read my mind, actually I was thinking drow nudist nympho pacifist colony, but maybe that would be a bit over the top. :D
#6

straploknight

Nov 26, 2007 15:42:32
What kind of town? What kind of population? Elves, half elves, dwarves, humans, etc... etc...

Honestly beyond the basic question ,I haven't given it much thought. I was thinking perhaps we could hash out some ideas like Who-What-Where then progress from there. Once we had a firm idea of what we wanted to do then we could throw a dart at the map, figure out a size and start digging into the whole thing.

Or maybe we could start with a theme?

Ideally I'd like to hash out the ideas here, get the framework down and start another thread with the actual maps and entries (just to make it tidy)
#7

suin_bahhar_02

Nov 26, 2007 16:12:40
Nice idea. I want to see a Rasheman or Thayan village. And Merriks idea.
#8

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Nov 26, 2007 18:06:00
Or maybe we could start with a theme?

Ideally I'd like to hash out the ideas here, get the framework down and start another thread with the actual maps and entries (just to make it tidy)

How about a coastal village?
#9

phelf_der_zemit

Nov 26, 2007 19:04:00
I like the Idea of a pladin leading a small clergy to create a small town in the wilds. THats always good.
#10

old_sage

Nov 26, 2007 19:33:13
If you'd like, I'll try to offer some input where and when I can.
#11

straploknight

Nov 26, 2007 20:30:46
Everybody is welcome

1. Rasheman
2. Thay
3. Coastal area
4. Started by a Paladin & Clergy
#12

Dark_Wizard_02

Nov 26, 2007 20:41:31
I think it should be in some less detailed, somewhat out of the way region (may or may not be Rasheman) with a large adventuring site (ruin, dungeon) somewhat near by. It should be a good place for adventurers to set off from, something in the spirit of Shadowdale or Eveningstar.

Someone around here ranted not too long ago that FR had too many coastal settlements, and on the map I'm inclined to agree (slightly, based on a superficial glance). Maybe something inland might be fun, perhaps something still "coastal" but not on a large body of water.
#13

straploknight

Nov 26, 2007 20:56:30
Say if it were in Rasheman, it could be on the NW side of Lake Ashane, There is a trail there that connects N'Jast and Nathoud and a bit farther north are the Icerim mountains.

I would think that a town or village in t he middle of nowhere would be like a one of the gold rush towns that cropped up in the west. No real natural resources to think of, but nessecary because it was a way point or a trading site.


In that area you could also make it on the Golden Way near the Clearflow or maybe down there between the Sunrise and Mountians of Copper. A water road to Murghyr.

IMAGE(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/bossco/loca.jpg)
#14

phelf_der_zemit

Nov 26, 2007 21:05:41
How bout the a fellowship of Clerics were formed by Oghma, Azuth, and Torm, who felt wronged by the life of westgate, and set out south from The Dragon Coast to the untamed and unclaimed lands. Bringing most of there clergy men with them (around 45 total) they created a small outpost, including the women and children wishing to escape the cruelty of the guild controled city of westgate. Weathering the onslaught of orcs and goblins from the niehboringlands, they started a small trading post that got them some long lost need supplies, such as gold, silver, and even some rare magical equipment/materials. Oghma's Church started a library with the books they scavenged from Westgate, and the new ones penned since arival. Torm set up a church/court which handles the siting of land, disagreements, and crimes of moral question. They also created a church training ground where they help the most promising young students to learn the way of the sword and bow. Azuth's church has set up a small and secluded sect of magic users who help the town and tutor the astute and intelgent youth. The churches of Oghma and Azuth made a joint function and with the protection from Graduates of Torm's church, go out and scout the land seeking knowledge and magic.

This would be set in between the shinning plains, turmish, and the Dragon Coast.
Just a rough draft. Add to or scrap. :D

EDIT: oh this could be easly addapted to other places.
#15

straploknight

Nov 26, 2007 21:17:55
What would the draw be for other people?

Its way off the beaten path, bet the Orsraun Mountains have a valley or two in there, somewhere in the Giant's plain could work?

IMAGE(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/bossco/locb.jpg)
#16

straploknight

Nov 26, 2007 21:27:17
I'm partial to a place near some hills and mountains , if for no ther reason, you can always have a dungeon or too nearby, or some old kings crypt, or old dwarfhold, as cliche' as that might seem.

Then again, say we went with Phelf's idea, you could also say divine mandate drove them to a particular spot after some harrowing travel.

We dont have to limit ourself to the typical town either, it could have some fantastic design elements, say a town built on the side of a mountain that is reachable by a path through the mountain or over the mountain. Perhaps a Shangri-la of sorts
#17

phelf_der_zemit

Nov 26, 2007 21:29:01
I agree, maybe a small deffense agianst the horrors of the plains on the course to the coast. Not that I know whats out there.

Other than that is the hook/backstory Good?
#18

straploknight

Nov 26, 2007 21:41:56
unwitting protectors from an ancient evil beneath their feet? The triumvarate of gods led them there to start a town so that in some point in the future it could be the last stand against evil. The ancient evil might be just starting to stir, drawing adventurers there to help quell the trouble, and along with them various merchants and traders. Not all of them good of course.
#19

green_elven_vampire

Nov 26, 2007 22:15:50
I was thinking in The Winterwood near the Lake of Steam where there was once a thriving ancient elven city of Copper elves, Wild elves and moon elves, and was also a major center of elven High Magic before The Crown wars.

Possibly have a group of elves, half elves, humans, dwarves, halflings and gnomes adventure into the deep ancient forest and try to clear out the evil that has taken root in its heart and establish a small forest town while searching for lost relics and treasure. Open up trade with surrounding lands and form a community of all the goodly races in the deep southern realms.

Only thing is... and this could make for good gaming... you'd have to have the elves in the group (preferably copper or green elves) talk to the Green elves who live there already to form an alliance of some sort. Plus, there is a very powerful green dragon with high druid levels.

That was what I was thinking. Hope it helps. ;)
#20

creyzi4zb12

Nov 27, 2007 5:46:18
'Kay, here's my draft about the topic.
How'bout the Middle of the Giant's Plain and TrollMountains? The village, is a village that hasbecome unknown to the world of Faerun, because it has been cut short of communication and cultural influence due to the terror wrought by the giants' and trolls upon them.
Nobody in their village knows magic. They are the crossbreeds of humans and giants, and have lived even before the times of the Netheril. Their origins were from one of the 5 creator races (human version). Once Upon A Time, there was a war between humans and giants. I'm gonna make it short. But main point is that, the humans lost, and the giants demanded tribute from them. So the humans offered the giants 2000 girls to sate their lust. The giants bred with them when the humans grew up, depriving them from the outside world. They didn't tell them the origin of mating because all people in the town are women. What they do however is bring terror to the town, the women would then form a procession to a certain giant's cave in the plains. There, away from the town's eyes, will the giants breed with the women through unknown means.
Women in the village are mostly civilized, but more like amazons. They have this belief, that only the giants can give them birth, and retain the survival of their civilization. But the truth was that the giants killed every male babyborn from the woman, declaring it a defect. The women stands about 6-7 feet tall, due to their giant ancestors. Citizens are just the ordinary commons nowadays, cept from the fact that they bear hidden knowledge during the old times, in hygiene, in food making, writing, language, masonry, carpentry etc. and hidden magic more powerful than the netheril or arcane (a magic that survived during the creator races era) in their ancestors' tombs.
#21

aldareth

Nov 27, 2007 7:24:47
Unnaturally cold spreeds from winterkeep , even in the few sommer months the earth is not free of snow and ice, following the slow spreed of the ice is an unnaturally darkness...a ranking cleric of chauntea received a vision that she have to stop the spreed of the cold and reverse the damage that was happening, bringing the land back to its natural balance.
After a misshappen attempt to solve the problem alone ( raiders , monsters , mysterious happenings ) the cleric of chauntea asks the church of lathander for score of men ( paladins, squires, some clerics and monks) for protection
the church of oghma sees a oppurtunity to retrieve ancient and lost lore from winterkeep so a divine seeker joins the crusade ( ingoknito), and you can be sure that a cleric of waukeen would not miss the oppurtinty to make some profits from the near golden road.

so north of immilmar the host builds his fort from wich it will investigate , some fortune seekers follow them as do adventurers ( some would call the tombraiders) , even some common people follow them in the hope of a lasting city and some pieces of land for their own...
#22

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Nov 27, 2007 12:20:21
Someone around here ranted not too long ago that FR had too many coastal settlements, and on the map I'm inclined to agree (slightly, based on a superficial glance). Maybe something inland might be fun, perhaps something still "coastal" but not on a large body of water.

To be honest, I didn't even think about that when I came up with the suggestion--I simply like the ocean, and the idea of a small town by the sea.

I don't think there are overwhelmingly more coastal settlements in the Realms than there are on the mainland--the map doesn't show us everything. Plenty of settlements are by water sources, but that doesn't equal "coastal".
#23

suin_bahhar_02

Nov 27, 2007 16:31:09
Fresh and salty sea air. Strong winds. Simple fishermen working in the morning and skinning fish in the evening. A local bonfire serves as lighttower. This could be sustainable far from the beaten path of most campaigns and could be dropped anywhere. I think its a great idea. The threat from the sea is really ominous and always present. Umberlee should hold a strong sway as would Talos. But maybe this is a bit too isolated for a good PC environment, but certainly good plothooks can arrive like strange sails setting in the bay at night leaving before dawn... Or a magical mists turning local people into frothing madmen (wait thats a bit too Ctulhu)... Or annexxing by a Rundeen or Zhentish raiding fleet.
#24

alkasyn

Nov 27, 2007 16:32:36
I'm detailing one of the Border Kingdoms, as it will be the setting in which my troupe will soon be playing, but so far it's only a sketch. I'll put smth here tommorow, since it's already too late for me to be sitting in front of my PC
#25

95.289

Nov 27, 2007 22:13:58
i would think there should be more coastal cities/towns that inland ones in a setting like the FR

the sea allows for a pretty constant supply of food and the ease of travel afforded by boats....
#26

Dark_Wizard_02

Nov 28, 2007 17:55:47
To be honest, I didn't even think about that when I came up with the suggestion--I simply like the ocean, and the idea of a small town by the sea.

I don't think there are overwhelmingly more coastal settlements in the Realms than there are on the mainland--the map doesn't show us everything. Plenty of settlements are by water sources, but that doesn't equal "coastal".

I was just putting out a suggestion for something with the vibe of other famous "starting" towns in the Realms as well as the Western Heartlands caravan route feel. The map doesn't show us everything, which leaves us plenty of room to come up with this, where ever it may be.
#27

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Nov 28, 2007 19:13:55
I was just putting out a suggestion for something with the vibe of other famous "starting" towns in the Realms as well as the Western Heartlands caravan route feel. The map doesn't show us everything, which leaves us plenty of room to come up with this, where ever it may be.

I agree.
#28

creyzi4zb12

Nov 28, 2007 23:46:45
I'm detailing one of the Border Kingdoms, as it will be the setting in which my troupe will soon be playing, but so far it's only a sketch. I'll put smth here tommorow, since it's already too late for me to be sitting in front of my PC

Is it okay if we now submit our idewas.
#29

straploknight

Dec 19, 2007 19:07:44
of course (sorry bout dropping the ball here and letting things go fo so long), I've got this simple map of a walled town (worked out to be about 335 buildings IIRC) for consideration

IMAGE(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/bossco/frtwn.png)
#30

suin_bahhar_02

Dec 20, 2007 12:28:07
The way its formed it looks like a big island outpostcity or a city on a hill to me. 136 and 217 could hold a temple of Umberlee or Istishia. The scale is a bit off for a small city though...
#31

straploknight

Dec 20, 2007 15:34:37
I figured a small town (maybe 1300 to 1600 residents) perhaps, lol its shape and general layout actually sprang from Suderham of Module A3 frame (with some serious modifications of course). If anybody remebers the supplament that featured Drake's Barbican, that where the 4 gates came from and building 166 is based on another home from a module I can't remember. I had a few other buildings sprinkled in there as well, but they've been changed. The layout beyond the 4 quarters is a bit haphazard, but I figured it was built without any sort of building codes and with an eye towards saving materials by using the neighbor's buildings for a wall or two. I also purposely put the entrance to many buildings facing inward, reasoning that blockades could be set at key points to create a sort of inner wall (the unlucky few of course haven fallen prey to the non exsistant building code).

I didn't include a keep in the town (perhaps as was mentioned earlier it was started by clergymen and perhaps the local temple also serves as the town hall.) Or perhaps building 328 could serve the purpose of a town hall, building 283 could be a stable of sorts 292 to 295 could be warehouses and graineries. 217 could indeed be the local temple and perhaps 136 is the local jail and garrison?
#32

storm_silverhand

Dec 20, 2007 15:59:28
Heya,

Looking at that map, I have to say that there's some problems with it... The biggest one is it doesn't look like it grew organically. Back in the days when you didn't have heavy earth moving equipment, towns generally followed the flow of the land (and they still do to a certain extent, because there are just some things modern construction tools just can't move or change easily without throwing a lot of money at it).

There doesn't appear to be any water supply to the town. Where are the wells or aqueducts? Water is a very important consideration for any town, in short, a town won't survive without it.

The way the buildings are laid out makes it look very crowded, with people living in each other's pockets - I think smaller towns tend to have more discrete buildings - separate, in other words, not built wall to wall.

Lastly, I thought you wanted to detail a "small town" not a city? That looks like it has more than enough buildings to be a city, not a town.

Women in the village are mostly civilized, but more like amazons. They have this belief, that only the giants can give them birth, and retain the survival of their civilization. But the truth was that the giants killed every male babyborn from the woman, declaring it a defect. The women stands about 6-7 feet tall, due to their giant ancestors. Citizens are just the ordinary commons nowadays, cept from the fact that they bear hidden knowledge during the old times, in hygiene, in food making, writing, language, masonry, carpentry etc. and hidden magic more powerful than the netheril or arcane (a magic that survived during the creator races era) in their ancestors' tombs.

If these women (and their female descendants) keep breeding with Giants, eventually all the human blood would be bred out of them and they'd end up being Giants themselves. It wouldn't last that long that way.

I wonder if there are amazons anywhere in Faerun?
#33

straploknight

Dec 20, 2007 16:14:25
I didn't put in really any small details, so cisterns and wells could be placed where convientent (maybe fed by an underground spring, or perhaps the town is located over a river in the underdark.

With Faerun being fairly magical, I think spells could have been used to facilitate alot of heavy construction, the town itself is pretty fort like (really due to not having picked a spot and hashing out the local terrain then building to suit), but if it was built on fairly flat terrian or maybe on a large hill that was leveled out via magic (disintegrate, move earth, rock to mud, ect.). Or maybe this is the newer part of town and the outlying buildings could be spread about in a more organic fashion (the original map is a bitmap so its easy to change).
#34

suin_bahhar_02

Dec 20, 2007 16:37:45
I would hesitate to make a small town build by magic. You want a strong wizard guild controlling all real estate?

Storm, The island Ixinos holds a large tribe of amazones.
#35

straploknight

Dec 20, 2007 16:47:53
Tony da' Wand would, Just using a implausable suggestion to explain the town of B'hoxl'Unch :P

I think if you put it smack dab in the middle of where a line drawn from the three mountians on the southern end of the Giant's Plain intersect, it would probably be flat enough to build without heavy magic use. Then again if we went from the idea that the town started as part of a divine mandate the surely the gods have provided ;)
#36

suin_bahhar_02

Dec 20, 2007 16:54:22
I could like that hook. A pilgrim city build by gods (or demigods).
#37

straploknight

Dec 20, 2007 17:45:07
I dunno if I would go as far as popping it up out of dust (gotta test the resolve of the worshippers somehow), but the gods could have guided them to this spot
IMAGE(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/bossco/locb2.jpg)

an area of shallow ruins that had been buried under only a few inches (a foot at most) of hard packed dirt that provided the nessecary foundation for the town to be built in this fashion. The area could have been well developed but with time whatever civilization exsisted here has been buried with time. The civilization could have been truly ancient and whatever god led the pilgrims here could have absorbed a portfolio and the need to guide people here is an echo from that event (????? a tribute perhaps to a once great civilization).
#38

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Dec 20, 2007 18:11:55
I have to agree with some of the others, I'd expect a "small town" like the one we are trying to detail would have buildings that are a bit more spaced out than they are on that map. It's a fine map, but it does look more like a city. Sure, you could say the construction was facilitated with magic, but doesn't that more or less miss the point of the original goal?

I had pictured a locale with a more cozy, pastoral feel to it.
#39

straploknight

Dec 20, 2007 21:15:11
Easy enough to change, are there any sorts of terrain to build it around. Perhaps nestle it closer to the Deepwash or that bridge, I know a river town is a bit cliche' but it makes for expedient travel, or right up there where the Deepwash meets the Giant's Run Mountians?

IMAGE(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/bossco/locb2a.jpg)
#40

Dark_Wizard_02

Dec 20, 2007 22:20:03
That area is very close to Erlkazar. I believe that gangly looking body of water is Impresk Lake. There could be some interaction there and with Tethyr. Could be interesting.
#41

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Dec 21, 2007 9:48:29
Although to be fair, Erlkazar got badly mangled on the 3E map anyway.

I don't think a river town is "cliche", I think it makes sense, because people tend to settle near ready sources of food, water, and easy access to other locales.
#42

merrikcale

Dec 21, 2007 14:07:02
Although to be fair, Erlkazar got badly mangled on the 3E map anyway.

I don't think a river town is "cliche", I think it makes sense, because people tend to settle near ready sources of food, water, and easy access to other locales.

virtually every town, especilly in medieval times, was near a river or at least, a major road
#43

storm_silverhand

Dec 21, 2007 16:44:42
Heya.

So we should probably get a summation of what the goal of the town is. There is usually something behind the settlement of a town, whether it be "gold in them thar hills", or trade, or even divine mandate... We seem to have settled with a divine mandate.

So first up, we need a WHY. Why would the gods lead them there? Surely not to simply establish a self sustaining town that is cut off from everyone and everything else (at least, that's not the way the Realms deities work, there's no sense of "I am the one true god and you must have no others and I won't stand for you to be influenced by my fellow gods").

Another question to answer is, how long ago did the town first break ground? Is this a recent thing, or did it happen long ago? Has the why of the mandate passed and the town now just drifts along without direction, or is it still fulfilling some purpose for the gods?

Walls - a town is more likely to have a palisade, or a rudimentary stone wall rather than the kind of wall that surrounds a metropolis like Waterdeep. Unless, of course, it has extensive magical help. (A Wall of Iron sandwiched between two Walls of Stone, for example, with other stonework done as needed (stairs, towers, and the like). ;))

Water - if the town is not near a river, then there must be some other supply. The hows and whys of the water and how it is brought to the surface would probably be a big thing for a town this size.

Food - is this a farming community, or does it rely on trade? If it relies on trade, what does it export?

Threats to the town - what threats are there to the town, and how do the people deal with them? If it's a small town, then it goes without saying that the highest level NPCs in the town aren't really all that high level at all, unless you want one or two exceptions (clerics it would have to be in a town established by divine mandate, and maybe a wizard if one of those "divines" was Mystra or Azuth).

I would suggest looking at the rules presented in the DMG for determining the population of the town, including what PC and NPC classes are represented and at what sort of levels.

PC Adventurers - who would train them if anyone? What sort of trouble would young adventurers get up to, and how would the town treat them?

Sorry if I seem to be tossing questions out and not answering them, but I think someone has to ask questions and get people thinking about the answers. Personally, I start with a town by thinking about why it is where it is, what purpose it serves in the overall scheme of things, and in general what threatens the town's existence... and once I'm done with that overview, I work up from the bottom - what buildings and services (including the watch (the police), the militia (the army), adventurers, churches, stores, farms, logging, mines, and water supply) are needed to keep the town thriving, what trade the town engages in and how, who rules (openly and behind the curtain) and why... and so on.

I hope this has been of help.
#44

straploknight

Dec 21, 2007 17:18:05
I've been pondering that myself, last night I was flipping through the Tome of Magic and thinking about something like the hidden library, but more menacing perhaps, maybe an old temple that would confirm a heresy in the church or maybe an ancient evil (sorta like the prequel to the exorcist). The town could have started out as a simple settlement to build a distraction, in this case a small temple over some old ruins to hide the truth/evil. The settlement grew a bit to support the temple and things coasted along, quietly with few hiccups so that the settlement began to fade from common knowledge and in a generation or so the actual purpose of the settlement was fogotten about (on purpose), but the truth of the place has a way of enduring, in the next generation or so, the settlement grew into a town due to which attracted folk to the town creating a sort of gold rush where a large influx of people arrived to fill various needs and services, the event that created the rush could have dwindled down,but left in its wake a vibrant community that had grown beyond needing said event to support the town. Things were good, but again this enduring secret is looking for a way to get out, so monsters began to appear, random attacks from the wilderness, occassionaly concerted efforts. This attracted the sort of folk who like to deal with these things, namely adventurers, who in their quest to rid the town of its problems has uncovered previously undiscovered ruins, some it seems that have a connection to the town and the local religion, word has spread further and now a previously forgotten town in a forgotten section of the Vilhon reach is once more on the map.

The area isn't to bad either, nestled along that river, you have alot of fresh water from the montains and the deepwash is loaded with fish (along with a dragon turtle) and even though the shining plains are hot and dry, they could support a fair amount of crops (especially in the shadow of the Giant's Run Mountains. There could be gold in them hills :D also looking at the economic map of Faerun, wines are produced in the area (is it like Italy perhaps in terms of climate?)
#45

straploknight

Dec 21, 2007 17:50:12
Forgive the psychdelic colors, but I did a quick elevation map, I tried something nestled in the mountains at the head of one of the feed waters for the wash and it didn't feel right, I also tried it on a river bank, and didn't feel comfortable with that either before I did this. I can change the elevation map to reflect the feed water and place it on a river (as fast flowing one I would guess) all the same, just need to change the orientation of the elevations so that the town is perched on big hill that gets lower obviously as it nears the water.
IMAGE(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/bossco/hilltown.jpg)
The map is ab out a 1/2 mile square (1500 x 1500 pixels), so plenty of space to spread a town out, going with the divine mandate idea, I have th map centered at the highest elevation where a central temple could go and the town could flow out from it, the highest portion could have been a tor jutting from the hill and the hill could be more gentle in its elevation changes as it approaches flat land.

I figure the light green area could form the extents of the walled portion of the town, the dark green maybe the original settlement in the shadow of the tor, and the tor itself for the temple itself and whatever defense the orginal builders manufactured.

By flipping the map I could make the pink area the river and eliminate the orange as an elevation and make the town reside on the hill near a river (ergo, the gods have provided, not only this fantastic site to build a temple for the worshipers to survey the land for miles around, but its near a good supply of water and food and you feet dont get as wet in the spring melt when flood waters come from the mountains and cause the river to overflow which, btw has built up some nice rich soil over the years allowing crops to grow in an otherwise dry and dusty area).
#46

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Dec 21, 2007 18:20:14
I thought Storm's post was very helpful.

Also, have you thought about what gods were involved with the founding of this town?
#47

straploknight

Dec 21, 2007 19:36:02
Hmmm... not to much, any deities with some skeletons in thier closet? As far as guardians of an ancient evil, Torm or Helm spring to mind, or maybe in a stretch Tempus (reactive to the threat - also given some info in the F&P on the Abbey of the Sword and the faith's predilection for establishing places in lightly defended areas) Or maybe as suggested earlier it could be 2 or more dieties working in concert)
#48

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Dec 21, 2007 19:53:16
Hmmm... not to much, any deities with some skeletons in thier closet? As far as guardians of an ancient evil, Torm or Helm spring to mind, or maybe in a stretch Tempus (reactive to the threat - also given some info in the F&P on the Abbey of the Sword and the faith's predilection for establishing places in lightly defended areas) Or maybe as suggested earlier it could be 2 or more dieties working in concert)

I kind of like the "2 deities working in concert" idea. Why not Torm and Helm? Although there are tons of other great options besides them.
#49

straploknight

Dec 21, 2007 19:56:37
I'm fine with Torm & Helm, what others did you have in mind?

Lathander and Mystra (IMO) seem to have been played out a bit, but I'm not trying to discourage any possibilities
#50

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Dec 21, 2007 20:00:26
I'm fine with Torm & Helm, what others did you have in mind?

Lathander and Mystra (IMO) seem to have been played out a bit, but I'm not trying to discourage any possibilities

*laughs* I actually didn't even think of that, and thought Torm/Helm might seem "played out" (don't get me wrong, though, I like both deities!).

Maybe pick two deities who aren't usually thought of as a combo, like Sune and Mielikki. Or, two deities who are each from a different pantheon (racial or otherwise). Just throwing some more ideas out there.
#51

straploknight

Dec 21, 2007 20:13:39
How bout, Labelas Enoreth and Red Knight, or you could get all Mulhorandi and say Thoth and Labelas Enoreth as an example. maybe throw Oghma in there, they might have something they want to keep a lid on (some very powerful dark speech perhaps?)
#52

straploknight

Dec 21, 2007 21:14:49
And here is the revised map (ran with the river idea)
IMAGE(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/bossco/Headwater.jpg)

Very incomplete, but thats the general shape, i'm toying with putting in few defensive walls, running with the idea that they would use the sheer sides of the hill as a fortification, if you could see it from the side it would slope up from the gate. The building on the tor is the temple (and it uses the footprint of the Barcelona Cathedral). The Barbican is from the 2nd Ed accessory City Sites (9464) Drake's Barbican, and I left some land around to dress with pastures and farms possibly (not concerned with them at this time).

And how 'bout the town name of Headwater?
#53

creyzi4zb12

Dec 22, 2007 2:47:55
If these women (and their female descendants) keep breeding with Giants, eventually all the human blood would be bred out of them and they'd end up being Giants themselves. It wouldn't last that long that way.

I wonder if there are amazons anywhere in Faerun?

Well how about this....the women actually have powerful blood in them coming from a race more ancient than the creator races (the times when Faerun was called Ostoria), it is known that their blood could cure any kind of disease, the women make their medicine by preserving their blood.
Preferably I preferred the setting coz there's plenty of room for romance and mystery in it. :D
#54

straploknight

Dec 22, 2007 11:06:08
Amybody want to take a stab at compiling a list of businesses for the town?

helpful link here

Heh, I like when something backs up a gut feeling, I figured an average of 5 people per building and in the link they reccomend dividing the population by 5 to get the number of buildings.
#55

merrikcale

Dec 23, 2007 11:29:58
I'm fine with Torm & Helm, what others did you have in mind?

How about Waukeen and Valkur if its mostly river trade, or perhaps Waukeen and Shaundakul
#56

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Dec 23, 2007 14:25:24
And here is the revised map (ran with the river idea)

And how 'bout the town name of Headwater?

I like the name.

I also like Merrick's idea of Waukeen and Shaundakul.
#57

suin_bahhar_02

Dec 23, 2007 17:20:02
Maybe the site of interest for Waukeen and Shaundakul is a portal. This portal could lead to a Thayan or Rasheman city; or could be protected by a temple blocking the way to Waukeens enemies like Mask or Grazz't.

Shaundakul's wandering during the Time of Troubles brought him across countless portals both helpfull and perilous. Upon reaching a portal to Grazz't realm Shaundakul himself spread the word to lost travellers on the Giant Plains. His words reached a devout cleric of Waukeen who knew she would return who seeked the portal and stepped through. This cleric of Waukeen got beset with a vision of a terrible economic disaster. A demonic sage swayed the priest and managed to seal a deal with a devil. The portal remains closed as long as a steady income could be generated donating it monthly to a servant of Grazz't.
#58

straploknight

Dec 23, 2007 23:52:59
Yeah, that'll work, the Grazz't angle as well. Rather than a town, would the portal lead to someplace in Grazz'ts demense? Something like Umberlee's portal at the bottom of Waterdeep's harbor, where this tribute is collected and carried back to Grazz'ts realm or at least to someplace of the collectors choosing.

Looks like there will be about 400 buildings when its done, and I like using about 5 people per building on average, so that works out to about 2000+ residents. The area is noted for producing fish and wine, so suppose thats the primary export items.
-------------------------------------------

Headwater
Population: 2,160
GP Limit: 3,000 gp
Government: Nonstandard - theocracy/corporatism
Power Center Alignment: True Neutral
Race Mix: Mixed (79% Human, 9% Halfling, 5% Elf, 3% Dwarf, 2% Gnome, 1% Half-elf, 1% Half-orc)
Constable/Captain of the Guard/Sheriff: Highest level fighter
Highest Level Locals: Adept L9*, Aristocrat L7, Barbarian L7, Bard L9, Cleric L11**, Commoner L19, Druid L9, Expert L15, Fighter L11, Monk L7, Paladin L7, Ranger L7, Rogue L11, Sorcerer L7, Warrior L11, Wizard L7
* = for reference/or apothecary, ect ** = adjust to the needs of the town's backstory

Population By Mix
Dwarf: 65
Elf: 108
Gnome: 43
Half-elf: 22
Halfling: 194
Half-Orc: 22
Human: 1706

Total Characters of Each Class
Adept: L9(1), L4(2), L2(4), L1(10) = 17
Human 13, Halfling 1, Elf 1, Dwarf 1, Gnome 1
----------------------------------------
Aristocrat: L7(1), L3(2), L1(10) = 17
Human 13, Halfling 1, Elf 1, Dwarf 2
----------------------------------------
Barbarian: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 5, Halfling 1, Half Orc 1
----------------------------------------
Bard: L9(1), L4(2), L2(4), L1(8) = 15
Human 12, Halfling 1, Elf 1, Gnome 1
----------------------------------------
Cleric: L11(1), L5(2), L2(4), L1(8) = 15
Human 12, Halfing 1, Elf 1, Half-Elf 1
----------------------------------------
Commoner: L19(1), L9(2), L4(4), L2(8), L1(1820)
Human 1434, Halfling 165, Elf 92, Dwarf 55, Gnome 36, Half-Elf 19, Half-Orc 19
----------------------------------------
Druid: L9(1), L4(2), L2(4), L1(8) = 15
Human 13, Halfling 1, Elf 1
----------------------------------------
Expert: L15(1), L7(2), L3(4), L1(60) = 67
Human 53, Halfling 6, Elf 3, Dwarf 4, Gnome 1, Half-Elf 1, Half-Orc 1
----------------------------------------
Fighter: L11(1), L5(2), L2(4), L1(8) = 15
Human 12, Halfling 1, Elf 1, Gnome 1
----------------------------------------
Monk: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 6, Halfling 1
----------------------------------------
Paladin: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 6, Halfling 1
----------------------------------------
Ranger: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 5, Halfling 1, Gnome 1
----------------------------------------
Rogue: L11(1), L5(2), L2(4), L1(8) = 15
Human 12, Halfling 2, Elf 1
----------------------------------------
Sorcerer: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 5, Halfling 2
----------------------------------------
Warrior: L11(1), L5(2), L2(4), L1(100) = 107
Human 86, Halfling 9, Elf 5, Dwarf 3, Gnome 2, Half-Elf 1, Half-Orc 1
----------------------------------------
Wizard: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 5, Halfling 1, Elf 2

Guards/Soldiers: 21(full time), 108(millitia)
#59

suin_bahhar_02

Dec 24, 2007 7:48:18
Those druids (15!) and paladins (7) are quite suspect in a trade settlement... Maybe they have been alerted of the presence of the dark portal.
#60

suin_bahhar_02

Dec 24, 2007 8:15:50
The primary occupation of the village must be tending of vineyards and management of fishery to produce the fine wine and fish exports. The elevated plateau behind the city proviudes a well protected area for farming to sustain the population; perhaps the secondary occupation is poultry raising and crop farming.

Businesses could be ranging from weavers, scribes, trade houses, bottlers to inns, apothecaries, healers, tinkers, barbers and butchers.

Was the whole area elevated by the gods or is it an resilient offshoot area of the Giant Run Mountains? How does the area protect itself from the Marauding bands of giants in the area?
#61

merrikcale

Dec 24, 2007 10:29:28
Those druids (15!) and paladins (7) are quite suspect in a trade settlement... Maybe they have been alerted of the presence of the dark portal.

I agree. If we are doing a Waukeen/Shanudaukul deal then perhaps remove some druids and paladins for clerics and rangers.
#62

straploknight

Dec 24, 2007 11:27:20
Those druids (15!) and paladins (7) are quite suspect in a trade settlement... Maybe they have been alerted of the presence of the dark portal.

I figure the druids may not be part of the town proper, but possibly have enough interaction with the towns folk to be considered part of the population (the druids help local farmers and advise them to better the balance between the town and nature and some of the druid population was recruited from town.

The paladins, hmmm...... That'll take a bit more thought, perhaps the paladins are there to represent thier religion (what sort of whack jobs have a town run by a cleric of Waukeen, they need a proper faith in this town to give them a sense of perspective) or maybe they are here rooting out some external evil, or maybe they have become indirectky alerted to the dark portal (odd, there seems to be an unusual amount of bedevilment in the area, no doubt these good towns folk are in need of our assistance, there is something not quite right in the air as well).
#63

straploknight

Dec 24, 2007 11:40:14
The primary occupation of the village must be tending of vineyards and management of fishery to produce the fine wine and fish exports. The elevated plateau behind the city proviudes a well protected area for farming to sustain the population; perhaps the secondary occupation is poultry raising and crop farming.

Figure there are three times as many livestock as there are residents, so right around 6500 animals of various types being raised in the town and outlying areas.
Was the whole area elevated by the gods or is it an resilient offshoot area of the Giant Run Mountains? How does the area protect itself from the Marauding bands of giants in the area?

Actually given its location near the feed water for the wash, its sits on a small plateau and the church sits on a spur that rises even higher (the plateau could have been a tough bit of rock from the mountain or perhaps it is a chunck of Selune's tears that fell from the sky and through time has been worn to its present condition - the divine often work in ways that aren't immediately apparent and aren't bound by the same linear rules of time most mortals are). The giants probably harried the original inhabitants and this defensible location was probably a "gift" from the gods (despite being like a rotten apple).
#64

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Dec 24, 2007 11:59:11
I don't see anything wrong with the town having some paladin and druid residents. *shrug* Cutting down the number might be a good idea, though. Depends on what you want.
#65

straploknight

Dec 24, 2007 15:07:40
Headwater
Population: 2,160
GP Limit: 3,000 gp
Government: Nonstandard - theocracy/corporatism
Power Center Alignment: True Neutral
Race Mix: Mixed
Constable/Captain of the Guard/Sheriff: Highest level fighter
Highest Level Locals: Adept L9*, Aristocrat L7, Barbarian L7, Bard L9, Cleric L11**, Commoner L19, Druid L9, Expert L15, Fighter L11, Monk L7, Paladin L7, Ranger L7, Rogue L11, Sorcerer L7, Warrior L11, Wizard L7
* = for reference/or apothecary, ect ** = adjust to the needs of the town's backstory

Population By Mix
Dwarf: 65, Elf: 108, Gnome: 43, Half-elf: 22,
Halfling: 194, Half-Orc: 22, Human: 1706

Total Characters of Each Class
Adept: L9(1), L4(2), L2(4), L1(10) = 17
Human 13, Halfling 1, Elf 1, Dwarf 1, Gnome 1
----------------------------------------
Aristocrat: L7(1), L3(2), L1(10) = 17
Human 13, Halfling 1, Elf 1, Dwarf 2
----------------------------------------
Barbarian: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 5, Halfling 1, Half Orc 1
----------------------------------------
Bard: L9(1), L4(2), L2(4), L1(8) = 15
Human 12, Halfling 1, Elf 1, Gnome 1
----------------------------------------
Cleric: L11(1), L5(2), L2(4), L1(8) = 15
Human 12, Halfing 1, Elf 1, Half-Elf 1
----------------------------------------
Commoner: L19(1), L9(2), L4(4), L2(8), L1(1820)
Human 1434, Halfling 165, Elf 92, Dwarf 55, Gnome 36, Half-Elf 19,
Half-Orc 19
----------------------------------------
Druid: L9(1), L4(2), L2(4), L1(8) = 15
Human 13, Halfling 1, Elf 1
----------------------------------------
Expert: L15(1), L7(2), L3(4), L1(60) = 67
Human 53, Halfling 6, Elf 3, Dwarf 4, Gnome 1, Half-Elf 1, Half-Orc 1
----------------------------------------
Fighter: L11(1), L5(2), L2(4), L1(8) = 15
Human 12, Halfling 1, Elf 1, Gnome 1
----------------------------------------
Monk: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 6, Halfling 1
----------------------------------------
Paladin: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 6, Halfling 1
----------------------------------------
Ranger: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 5, Halfling 1, Gnome 1
----------------------------------------
Rogue: L11(1), L5(2), L2(4), L1(8) = 15
Human 12, Halfling 2, Elf 1
----------------------------------------
Sorcerer: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 5, Halfling 2
----------------------------------------
Warrior: L11(1), L5(2), L2(4), L1(100) = 107
Human 86, Halfling 9, Elf 5, Dwarf 3, Gnome 2, Half-Elf 1, Half-Orc 1
----------------------------------------
Wizard: L7(1), L3(2), L1(4) = 7
Human 5, Halfling 1, Elf 2

Guards/Soldiers: 21(full time), 108(millitia

Revision 1

Large Town: Nonconventional (theocracy/corporatist); AL; GP Limit 3,000; Assets xx,xxx; Population 2,160; Mixed (78% human, 9% halfling, 5% elf, 3% dwarf, 1% half-elf, 1% half-orc, 1% other); Imports; Exports
Description:
Architecture:
Layout:
Persona:
Map Key:

#66

straploknight

Dec 25, 2007 11:10:04
I read somethig interesting in Cityscape, they made a distinction between priest and cleric. A priest can be anybody with a suitable amount of knowledge about a religion, while a cleric can be a priest, not only because of thier divine investure, but thier knowledge as well. An example in the boo of this is Father Darius, he follows a devil, but mascarades as a priest of Pelor (despite being a cleric/thaumaturgist). This might provide an interesting twist in the Headwater at some point?
#67

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Dec 25, 2007 12:21:05
I read somethig interesting in Cityscape, they made a distinction between priest and cleric. A priest can be anybody with a suitable amount of knowledge about a religion, while a cleric can be a priest, not only because of thier divine investure, but thier knowledge as well. An example in the boo of this is Father Darius, he follows a devil, but mascarades as a priest of Pelor (despite being a cleric/thaumaturgist). This might provide an interesting twist in the Headwater at some point?

As long as you change Pelor to a more suitable, FR deity.;)
#68

storm_silverhand

Dec 25, 2007 15:57:52
Heya,

Yeah, but I don't think that priest thing would work in the Realms. The gods are a lot closer to the people than in other worlds, and people are likely to be wary of a "priest" who can't prove that he has divine power...

A cleric of one deity masquerading as a cleric of another, particularly if there is no other cleric of the god they're pretending to follow in town, is more likely to pass scrutiny... Personally, I don't really like the idea - because the only reason a cleric like that (say a cleric of Bane pretending to be a cleric of Tyr) would get away with it* would be if the god they're pretending to follow (Tyr in the example) had some kind of agenda that the cleric's false faith is somehow going to fulfill. (I think there's a doppelganger in Waterdeep who killed and absorbed a cleric of Selune who is actually getting spells from Selune, the theory being that she hopes to convert the doppleganger to her faith - for example.)

*Keeping in mind that in the Realms, the gods regularly send dream visions and omens even to common people (both their own faithful and faithful to other gods)... So if a god wanted to expose a false follower, they could easily do so to one or many people in the same town.
#69

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Dec 25, 2007 19:17:26
Heya,

Yeah, but I don't think that priest thing would work in the Realms. The gods are a lot closer to the people than in other worlds, and people are likely to be wary of a "priest" who can't prove that he has divine power...

A cleric of one deity masquerading as a cleric of another, particularly if there is no other cleric of the god they're pretending to follow in town, is more likely to pass scrutiny... Personally, I don't really like the idea - because the only reason a cleric like that (say a cleric of Bane pretending to be a cleric of Tyr) would get away with it* would be if the god they're pretending to follow (Tyr in the example) had some kind of agenda that the cleric's false faith is somehow going to fulfill. (I think there's a doppelganger in Waterdeep who killed and absorbed a cleric of Selune who is actually getting spells from Selune, the theory being that she hopes to convert the doppleganger to her faith - for example.)

*Keeping in mind that in the Realms, the gods regularly send dream visions and omens even to common people (both their own faithful and faithful to other gods)... So if a god wanted to expose a false follower, they could easily do so to one or many people in the same town.

I think the plot hook is interesting enough, though, to "save" it and rework it for the Realms rather than just nipping it in the bud.

Maybe this priest is a newcomer and therefore doesn't have an established presence in the town yet--the longer the masquerade goes on, the less believable it becomes. And maybe it will be the PCs who are the ones to receive a dream vision from whatever god is in question.
#70

straploknight

Dec 25, 2007 21:09:44
Yes, I wasn't sayng using Pelor per se, just the concept, it also opens an interesting line of thought about using adepts in general, and using the example of Father Darius in particular (even though he is a cleric). Someone wanting to infiltrate a religion could pick up a few levels of adept, indoctrinate themselves in the religion (via religous knowledge) and pass themselves off as a true cleric of the faith. The lay person wouldn't know the difference, and unless a true believer of the faith was looking for an infiltrator I bet an adept with some religous knowledge would be able to passthemselves off as well.

As for in general, you could look at clerics as being the hardcore followers of the god and the adepts less so, but believers none the less (Moses vs. tv evangelist - bad example, but you get the point) or on a more practical front in a world where the gods have gotta get a face out there, give that guy a book, let him imbibe some holy water, smack him on the head and tell him to be a true believer, his faith will provide the rest, and step up to the next guy on the assembly line. Fiat vs. Ferrari, the Fiat (adept) pays the bills and the Ferrari (cleric) draws them in.

Enough about that though, I thought it might provide a good hook somewhere down the line and add some usability to those 17 adepts running around town.
#71

ukplayerx

Dec 31, 2007 6:53:36
of course (sorry bout dropping the ball here and letting things go fo so long), I've got this simple map of a walled town (worked out to be about 335 buildings IIRC) for consideration

IMAGE(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/bossco/frtwn.png)

good idea. Strap, i've sent you a PM. the magazine is copyrighted/dated...1986..bloody hell, now i'm showing my age!!!!!!

people seem to be getting picky over town/city. in the UK a medieval town became a city if a Cathedral was built, now the Queen hands out city status. ho hum! in D&D isn't there a table somewhere that details population size for towns and cities?
#72

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Dec 31, 2007 9:39:30
people seem to be getting picky over town/city. in the UK a medieval town became a city if a Cathedral was built, now the Queen hands out city status. ho hum! in D&D isn't there a table somewhere that details population size for towns and cities?

Yes there is. And no, I don't have it on hand right now.
#73

straploknight

Dec 31, 2007 19:16:18
Its in the DMG, right now Headwater is on the lower end of large town.
#74

straploknight

Jan 01, 2008 21:38:03
IMAGE(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/bossco/Headwater.jpg)

Okay, got the buildings finished, gotta start numbering them. A few things, the large fenced in open area is a graveyard, I also left a few open areas for markets or gathering areas. The area towrd the north east I've intended as the garrison and jail, slightly further north is a little tower, nothing planned, just there.

The large building down toward the south west not far from the city gate is the big golden W, The Wayfarer's RestTM Inn, Any suggestions or ideas before I lock it in and start numbering?
#75

straploknight

Jan 04, 2008 23:54:21
Well finished the numbering scheme and now Loud Water has grown in size significantly, Buildings tallied out to 698 (well actually about 708 or 709 buildings total, but I didn't number some buildings that I felt were connected to in some fashion to sourrounding structures).


This would bump the population to 3490 @ 5 people per building, at the standard ratio of 10:1 for a thriving city in D&D that makes the population actually 6980 residents making it a small city instead.

This changes my thoughts about the backstory considerably, I think the theocratic element discussed thus far would work for a small town or large village, but stretched to city size it doesn't seem to fit as well.
#76

straploknight

Jan 05, 2008 0:32:41
IMAGE(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/bossco/Headwater.jpg)
#77

storm_silverhand

Jan 05, 2008 17:04:36
Heya,

Well finished the numbering scheme and now Loud Water has grown in size significantly, Buildings tallied out to 698 (well actually about 708 or 709 buildings total, but I didn't number some buildings that I felt were connected to in some fashion to sourrounding structures).

Don't you mean Heatwater?

This would bump the population to 3490 @ 5 people per building, at the standard ratio of 10:1 for a thriving city in D&D that makes the population actually 6980 residents making it a small city instead.

This changes my thoughts about the backstory considerably, I think the theocratic element discussed thus far would work for a small town or large village, but stretched to city size it doesn't seem to fit as well.

I think I did mention earlier on that it looked like a small city, not a town.

Is there anyway you can shrink that image? They're pushing the text out and my monitor isn't wide enough to handle it.

As for your thoughts, I think the back story still works - but only if you set it far enough back in time. Small cities don't spring up overnight, and they usually don't spring up in the middle of nowhere. IN addition to the religious elements, you might want to add deposits of metals and/or gems in the hills nearby that attracted a gold rush of people who may or may not have been interested in the religious reasons for the town's founding. (You could also abandon the map if it no longer fits your concept, and make a smaller map.)
#78

suin_bahhar_02

Jan 05, 2008 17:38:40
It's... so.. Huge! oO
#79

straploknight

Jan 05, 2008 18:23:18
lol, that'll probably work better for the thread, I forget I've got a really big monitor that makes this stuff easy to view.

Headwater

this is the link to the full size map (1500 x 1500 pixels)

419(dark blue) is a small graveyard, since land is limited I think there might be alot of mausoleums and crypts

650 (light blue) Is the Wayfarer's Rest, largest inn in Headwater

184 (purple) I guess would be the garrison and gaol

183 (purple)????

I've been thinking about how the tow... err city sprang up, the plateau was at one time a rocky spur that had been revealed by water as it slowly wore down the softer land around the it. The spur was much higher in the past and for some forgotten culture became an ideal outpost and a defensible location was built atop the crag using materials from the crag, as well as being built down into the crag. As time wore on the outpost grew larger and deeper into the crag caused the destruction of the outpost causing it to collapse and reducing the outpost and its dungeons to rubble. In the intervening years time and weather took its toll and any overt signs of this ancient civilization disappeared. Not quite the craggy spur it was, and not yet the plateau it is today, the next inhabitants siezed again upon its defensive value and built small keep on the stunted crag that would become Headwater, this keep grew into a village and into a town and then into a small city using the surrounding materials to build the city further leveling the crag into the plateau it is today This ancient city like its even older forebear also dug down into the crag for its sewers and as a store house for grain, water, ect. Private citizens and organizations did the same, creating a web of cellars and dungeons which connected to the sewers and occassionally the underground storerooms to create a labyrinth. In time the city built upon the crag came to disaster, this time scoured the plateau and reduced the city to rubble again as well as collapsing the upper most levels of the labryinth burying and sealing off the deepr structures. Also during this time, the inhabitants of the town sought escape through an extraplanar gate that was created in one of the underground chambers. In time the city was forgotten till followers of where led to the plateau by divine mandate, they built a large defensible structure on a small spur of earth, the crafts people and supporting folk grew into a village, the village grew into a town and now the town grew into a city. Over the years the original reason for the churches structure was forgotten as the plateau took on a life of its own, now known as Headwater, this small town makes a living by producing wines and fishing the Deepwash as well as mining ores from the Giant's Run Mountians.

Thats the very light and wispy version of it, explaining how things got started and what lead to Headwater as a small city. btw there are at least 35 or so farms in the area that support the city.
#80

straploknight

Jan 06, 2008 2:11:29
Population: 7198

Gold Piece Limit: 15,000

Government: Nonstandard (theocracy/corporatism)

Power Center Alignment: True Neutral

Office Holder: Highest Level Fighter

Highest Level Locals: Adept L12, Aristocrat L10, Barbarian L10, Bard L12, Cleric L12, Commoner L22, Druid L12, Expert L18, Fighter L14, Monk L10, Paladin L9, Ranger L9, Rogue L14, Sorcerer L10, Warrior L14, Wizard L10

Racial Mix: Humans 5,685, Halfling 647, Elf 359, Dwarf 215, Gnome 142, Half-Elf 71, Half-Orc 71, Other 8

Building Mix: Residences 213, Administration 39, Entertainment 39, Industrial 74, Nobility 39, Shops 78, Slums 103, Public Works 39, Travel 74, Farms (outlying) 35

Description: Named for its location on one of the tributaries which feed the Deep Wash with melt water, Headwater was once an old fortified temple built on a rocky spur located on a plateau like hill that grew into a village, then town, and now a small city. The local temple is dedicated to Waukeen and Shandukal and serves along with various guild leaders in council as the local government. The city mostly subsists by producing wine and salted fish for trade along with precious metals and gems which are sporadically mined in the nearby Giant’s Run Mountains. Despite the generally dry conditions of the area, yearly flooding during the spring as the tributary overruns provides mineral rich earth for the various outlying farms. Headwater occasionally runs afoul of stone and hill giant marauders from the nearby mountains as well as the occasionally peryton attack on an outlying farm and rarely suffers attack from something more exotic, slightly more troublesome are pirates and slavers, but Headwater’s defensible location and well trained guard prove effective in deterring most.

Architecture: Headwater consists of mostly stone buildings and construction with most of the stone quarried form the hill itself and the ancient structures which existed on the hill before Headwater was formed. Since Headwater is the only real defensible location for several miles around the city tends to be crowded with space at a premium so multistory structures are common with plenty of flat rooftops which provide space for small cisterns, gardens and animal coops. Built into the rock and spaced around hill itself by ancient occupants are a series of larger cisterns that provide the bulk of the water by feeding several fountains around the city. Also built by the ancients are a series of sewer tunnels which have been expanded on by residents of Headwater along with various cellars and the garrison and temple dungeons. It is further rumored that there are more labyrinthine tunnels below even the sewers. The primary fortification of the town is a large wall connected to three towers and a barbican att its southern end. The wall protects the lower portions of the hill which would otherwise make the city vulnerable to attack, otherwise the hill is mostly ringed by low decorative walls built by the current inhabitants designed more to keep unwary folk from falling off the than provide additional defense. Overall most buildings and walls tend to be plastered and white washed with peeked roofs being covered in cerulean clay tiles. Streets are wide and paved in cobblestone mostly being lit at night with torches which are slowly being replaced with oil lamps. Most buildings are several inches above the street since the streets serve double duty as gutters and are dangerously slick in a downpour as water rushes down the hill into sewers and drains. In stark contrast to the white wash blue tiled roof of most of the city is the Temple which sits on a large spur jutting roughly from the middle of the hill. This large structure is crafted from grey granite and marble with soaring walls and stained glass windows augmented by buttressed walls and towers. The spur rises above the hill itself another twenty feet and the tallest tower in the temple another eighty above that placing the top of the tower one hundred thirty to forty feet above the surrounding land. The garrison to the northeast possesses two equally tall towers but by dint of their location stand even higher and provide a commanding look down the tributary and back toward the mountains themselves making it hard to surprise the town except on the foggiest of days. The garrison itself conforms to the general style of the town itself with the guard adopting the cerulean color of the town’s rooftops as its standard.

Layout: The local government of Headwater is less concerned with civic planning than keeping the wheels of commerce turning, as such the city isn’t really defined by districts or quarters, although it has sorted itself out so, To the north and east lies most of the towns industry and warehouses while to the north west lies the cities more affluent citizens and to the south and west lies its foreign quarter along with the bulk of the inns and taverns, most other businesses are concentrated to the southeast with the slums spread out over the city but mostly following the east side. Most major thoroughfares are built on the solid structure of the old sewers both due for a sturdy foundation and easy access to drains. Toward the south and central to the city below the temple is the grand market place, which also serves as the town square, this open area is often filled with tents and wagons by vendors wishing to trade with the city proper and the outlying communities as well (Headwater is the hub for the various farms, small thorps and villages which dot the area). Toward the northeast is a second open area that serves as a smaller market place filled more by local traders and craftsmen who serve the city proper rather than the circus that is the grand market when it is overly crowded. Along the periphery of the hill is the occasional open space, these areas tend to feature communal gardens and corrals.
#81

merrikcale

Jan 06, 2008 11:19:21
are we having temples to Shandaukal and Waukeen? Any others? Will the Shandy one be in town or perhaps along the road outside of town? Or in town as the caravan gathering place
#82

straploknight

Jan 07, 2008 10:22:07
Running with the "two god divine mandate hiding nasty problem" theme with the big church so far, but I'm sure there are more here, just not having the same level of significance.

However if the " two god divine mandate hiding a nasty problem" thing was scrapped the big building in the middle could just as easily be something else (plenty of large structures in town to work off of).

Nothing concrete here except the map (dont want to rework the map to much, adding a building or feature here and there is no problem though).

Even the description, architecture, and layout are fluid. Anybody wanna tackle the town persona?
#83

suin_bahhar_02

Jan 07, 2008 12:34:57
Ooh Ooh I wanna do the thief guild!

I plan on making them semi religious perhaps with dark connections with Grazz't, Talona and/or Mask. Hmm. Any suggestions for their look or diety?

Mostly inns and leatherworking shops as fronts and whenching and gambling dens often located in the sewer parts below their places. They focus on smuggling (through the labyrinth into the river), muggings and (those higher in echelon) the occasional extortion rackets and espionage assignments.
#84

ukplayerx

Jan 07, 2008 13:09:32
Hey Strapo i've sent u the email as requested...have fun! :D

as for personnel/persona i'll have a go at anything. u should give each person interested a PM and give us a few weeks to come up with something, then we could have a 'GRAND UNVEILING' for everybody to see. I think it only fair though that Suin gets the Thieves Guild as he/she spoke up first.
(sometimes i be can be really nice. And sometimes i can be really NASTY - ha haaaa haa ha ha)
#85

straploknight

Jan 07, 2008 22:51:20
Ooh Ooh I wanna do the thief guild!

I plan on making them semi religious perhaps with dark connections with Grazz't, Talona and/or Mask. Hmm. Any suggestions for their look or diety?

Mostly inns and leatherworking shops as fronts and whenching and gambling dens often located in the sewer parts below their places. They focus on smuggling (through the labyrinth into the river), muggings and (those higher in echelon) the occasional extortion rackets and espionage assignments.

Go with it man
#86

straploknight

Jan 07, 2008 22:56:04
Hey Strapo i've sent u the email as requested...have fun! :D

as for personnel/persona i'll have a go at anything. u should give each person interested a PM and give us a few weeks to come up with something, then we could have a 'GRAND UNVEILING' for everybody to see. I think it only fair though that Suin gets the Thieves Guild as he/she spoke up first.
(sometimes i be can be really nice. And sometimes i can be really NASTY - ha haaaa haa ha ha)

Thanks for the articles UK, pick a part of town, you can go as small as detailing a single individual all the way up to an organization like Suin's

I've got the Wayfarer's Rest though (building 650)
#87

straploknight

Jan 08, 2008 1:39:49
Adept: 1/L12 - 2/L6 - 4/L3 - 4/L1
Aristocrat: 1/L10 - 2/L5 - 4/L2 - 4/L1
Barbarian: 1/L10 - 2/L5 - 4/L2 - 8/L1
Bard: 1/L12 - 2/L6 - 4/L3 - 8/L1
Cleric: 1/L12 - 2/L6 - 4/L3 - 8/L1
Commoner: 1/L22 - 2/L11 - 4/L5 - 8/L2 - 6,352/L1
Druid: 1/L12 - 2/L6 - 4/L3 - 8/L1
Expert: 1/L18 - 2/L9 - 4/L4 - 8/L2 - 209/L1
Fighter: 1/L14 - 2/L7 - 4/L3 - 8/L1
Monk: 1/L10 - 2/L5 - 4/L2 - 8/L1
Paladin: 1/L9 - 2/L4 - 4/L8 - 8/L1
Ranger: 1/L9 - 2/L4 - 4/L8 - 8/L1
Rogue: 1/L14 - 2/L7 - 4/L3 - 8/L1
Sorcerer: 1/L10 - 2/L5 - 4/L2 - 8/L1
Warrior: 1/L14 - 2/L7 - 4/L3 - 349/L1
Wizard: 1/L10 - 3/L5 - 4/L2 - 8/L1
* 64 NPCs free

Here are the known population of the city, 64 NPCs haven't been classed or leveled to be customized as we see fit. Also remeber 8 out of the total population aren't a standard race.

I guess we can consider the red types optional or thinned as needed.

Also, do we want some connections to the underdark? Not any power group per se, just a connection be it a sink hole in the labyrinth or large tunnel?

I have a rudimentry map for the sewer layout, it generally follows the major thoroughfares, but its pretty basic at this time. I haven't even considered lower layers yet (need to rough in or do any dungeons connected with the city first, with connections to the sewer and if deep enoough the labrinyth). Also anybody feel free to map out a building, just take into account its general layout, and dimensons (I can provide exact dimensions if need be) use a 5' scale on any these maps (the big map as noted is on a 20' scale)
#88

ukplayerx

Jan 08, 2008 11:44:47
I'll take building 4 to be used as an inn and 6,7,8 and 9!! OK?

thinks*hmmm, where did i put my rulebooks?*
#89

suin_bahhar_02

Jan 10, 2008 16:13:46
Following are members of the thief guild in Headwater.

Sewerrats
This section of the thiefguild handle exploration of the labyrinth and smuggling
Ragnar Onthimm
NE Male Human, Thethyrian Rogue 6/ Temple Raider of Mask 5, CR 11
Show
Str 8
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 15
Cha 12
Skills:
Appraise +10 Balance +8 Climb +13 Decipher Script +6 Disable Device +15 Diplomacy +5 Disguise +6 Forgery +6 Hide +14 Knowledge(local) +6 Knowledge (religion) +6 Move Silently +13 Open Lock +15 Spellcraft +5 Use Rope +8 Use magic Device +10 Search +8 Tumble +8
Feats:
Thug, Dodge, Mobility, Sidestep Charge, Dash
Abilities:
Improved Uncanny Dodge, Trap Sense +4, Trapfinding, Evasion
Temple Raider Spells: (dc 13 + spelllevel)
3 Nondetection
2 Undetectable Alignment, Invisibility
1 Detect Law, Detect Secret Doors
#90

suin_bahhar_02

Jan 10, 2008 16:30:17
Conclave of Dread
the members of this group within the guild handle all extortion and muggings

Keronious the Vile
CE Human Damaran Sorcerer 10 CR 10
Show

Str 12
Dex 11
Con 13
Int 14
Wis 9
Cha 17
Skills:
Feats: Violate Spell, Extend Spell, Improved Familiar (Hell Hound), Spell Focus(enchantment), Spell Penetration
Abilities:
Sorcerer Spells:
5_Mind Fog
4_Lesser Geas, Wall of Fire
3_Hold Person, Gaseas Form, Dispel Magic
2_Alter Self, Eagles Splendor, Whispering Wind, Daze Monster
1_Charm Person, Sleep, Shocking Grasp, Enlarge Person, Comprehend Languages
0_Resistance, Detect Magic, Daze, Arcane Mark, Message, Detect Poison, Acid Splash, Read Magic, Mending

#91

suin_bahhar_02

Jan 10, 2008 16:35:43
Night's Whispers
This group salvages and cultivates rumors and handles espionage led by the amiable half elf Sehanna. Posing as a cleric of Sune, this beautiful halfelf can be seen at several noble houses and merchant clans as she is a popular figure under the women of the city. She has a sharp tongue and wit and has infleunced the leading clergy through well timed deceptions and the ocasional threat of expositions of the more uglier facts of the clergies in Headwater. She has a network of working class commoner women (most of them lowlevel rogues or experts) who help her gather information at amazing speed in exchange for portions of the blackmail money.

Sehanna Stayanoga
LE Female Rashemi Half Elf Aristocrat 5, CR 5
Show
Init: +2
Senses: Spot +2 Listen +9
Languages: Common, Dwarven, Goblin, Rashemi, Aglarondan
******************************** ****************
AC: 17 touch 13, flatfooted 15 Combat Expertise
HP: 38
Saves: fort +3 reflex +3 will +6
******************************** ****************
Speed: 30 ft
Melee attack: +6 mwk rapier (1d6/18-20)
Ranged attack +5 long bow (1d8/x3)
Base attack +3 Grapple +3
Abilities: Str 11 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 16 Wis 12 Cha 14
Combat Options Combat Expertise
******************************** ****************
Feats: Bull Headed, Wanderers Diplomacy, Weapon Finesse
Skills: Disguise +3, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +6, Forgery +8, Gather Information +9, Intimidate +12, Knowledge (Local) +6, Sense Motive +5, Spot +9, Listen +9
******************************** ****************
Possesions: Masterwork Rapier, Ring of Protection +1, Disguise Kit, Dissapearing Ink, two Potions of Invisibility, Potion of Vision, Potion of Seeing, Potion of Cats Grace, Oil of Magic Weapon, Masterwork Potionbelt, Wand of Detect Magic, 1293 gp


#92

ukplayerx

Jan 13, 2008 7:00:24
well i was gonna start this weekend but rl set in so i'll try next week
#93

straploknight

Jan 13, 2008 17:58:19
No, sweat, and no need to rush. RL has a way of creeping in like that.
#94

straploknight

Apr 26, 2008 22:52:21
Well things kinda fizzled, but a PM from ukplayerX got me thinking about Headwater again, this time I just let things roam where they may when coming up with some background for the city.




The City of Headwater
Population 5001 ~ Government Oligarchy ~ Religion: Helm
Imports Ale, armor, coffee, fruit, herbs, livestock, spices, timber, vegetables, weapons
Exports Cheese, gems, grains, iron, olive oil, seafood, wine
Alignment LN, NG, TN, NE ~ GP Limit 15,000 ~ Assets XX



The city of Headwater is located in the foothills of the Giant’s Run Mountains and takes its name from the flowing waters, which empty into the Deepwash. Headwater’s closest neighbors are Assam, which lies approximately 160 miles to the east, and Lheshayl, which lies approximately 120 miles to the south, southeast.

The city itself sits on a granite monadnock that features a small tor rising at its center. The monadnock rises gently from the south to about 100 feet at this northern face with the tor sitting about 20 feet above the monadnock. Headwater is not the first city to occupy the monadnock as it appears to have been successively worked by previous inhabitants and the city lies over extensive ruins, the upper most having been converted into the current city’s sewer system. Most of the city is surrounded by low decorative walls meant to contain the young and unwary while the southern end features a defensive wall, which rises forty feet protecting the city from easy invasion. The city is noted for its multi-story whitewashed buildings featuring cerulean tinted clay tiled roofs. All of the streets are paved with cobblestone due to abundant materials easily accessed from the nearby waters.

Headwater is considered a city-state and is nominally part of the Vilhon reach, just barely escaping the hinterlands to the west. It is ruled by a council drawn from the heads of the city’s most prominent guilds with a cleric of Helm acting as mayor. Headwater features a regular guard supplemented by militia that are required to serve on a rotating basis.

Headwater’s primary trade is in wines and olive oil followed by its seafood and cheeses, the city mines iron and gems from the foothills of the Giant’s Run and it also trades in excess grain. Headwater’s chief imports tend to be food and livestock, which the city uses, in its varied and excellent culinary tradition; something the city takes pride in and is famous for with cooks from all over the realms traveling to the city for study. The city lays claim to all the fertile land in a days travel and leases the land to its farmers who grow the grapes and olive trees as well as the city’s grain. Livestock consists mostly of pork, fowl and goat with some beef. The livestock is kept on farms nearer to the city so that in times of danger the livestock can be more readily defended or herded into the city as needed. While the city imports a great deal of fruits, spices, and vegetables, the average citizen’s love of fine food has lead to a preponderance of potted plants and window box gardens on just about every home in the city providing their owners with their favorite herbs and vegetables and lending the air around the city a pleasant smell.

Headwater is predominantly made up of humans, being mostly of chondathan descent with some tethyrian and turami blood present as well, a few halflings call Headwater home owing to their love of good food with most of their stock being lightfoot. A smidgen of elves call Headwater home, almost exclusively being of moon elf descent and even fewer stout folk live there, all of them being gold dwarves. Half-orcs and half-elves are for the most part nonexistent being adventurers, mercenaries, or traders.