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Archons/Angels

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
creyzi4zb12
Sep 06, 2008 8:36:39 Some questions regarding angels and archons on the Realms

1. Are they (angels and archons) different beings? If so, then what are they
2. Where can I find some novels that talks about them? (I only know one on the Drizzt series)
3. Where do the guys live in?

Here's an angel/archon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZM3OJ1X178
#2
keveras
Sep 06, 2008 8:53:09 1. Now with 4e they are completely different. In previous editions both archons and angels were celestials. Now archons are elementals, while angels are servants of the deities.

2. Tomas Reid's The Gossamer Plain features an astral deva as a quite important supporting character. The guy in one of the Drizzt novels is called Al Dimeneira, a solar.

3. Now with 4e the archons live in the Elemantal Chaos and the angels reside with their deities at their respective dominions.
#3
creyzi4zb12
Sep 06, 2008 10:03:55 Are you saying that angels are seraphs? I also noticed one on Avatar.
#4
lord_karsus
Sep 06, 2008 11:18:13 -The Monster Manual!
#5
kyblik
Sep 06, 2008 12:05:15
The guy in one of the Drizzt novels is called Al Dimeneira, a solar.

erm, little reminder in which Drizzt novel it is?? thx
#6
varyar
Sep 06, 2008 16:37:27
erm, little reminder in which Drizzt novel it is?? thx

The Crystal Shard, although he's only mentioned and doesn't appear directly.

(He may show up in one of the later books, though - I've only read up to... hell, I don't remember. Three or four past the original trilogy.)
#7
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Sep 06, 2008 19:31:59
Are you saying that angels are seraphs? I also noticed one on Avatar.

Well, seraphs are a type of angel in real world theology, and in FR it's also a term used by some gods to designate a being as a chosen servitor. For instance Cyric had a chosen known as his Seraph of Lies.

4e angels are a lump group of divine servitors regardless of alignment. In 1e/2e/3e Aasimon (aka angels) were a collective group of good aligned deific servitors (solars, planetars, devas, etc), while evil gods tended to have their own unique servitor races supplemented with willing or mercenary fiends. There was in my opinion, more diversity and tailoring to the deity prior to 4e.

Archons in 4e (aka elementals with helmets) are evil elemental beings. Archons in 1e/2e/3e were celestials beings of law and good, dwelling in Mount Celestia, inspired by some somewhat obscure real world mysticism.
#8
rinonalyrna_fathomlin
Sep 06, 2008 20:33:03
Archons in 4e (aka elementals with helmets) are evil elemental beings. Archons in 1e/2e/3e were celestials beings of law and good, dwelling in Mount Celestia, inspired by some somewhat obscure real world mysticism.

Yes, it's a bit hard to believe how changed archons are in 4E.
#9
lord_karsus
Sep 06, 2008 20:54:16 -Helmets?
#10
kyblik
Sep 07, 2008 3:58:11 do you think Wizards will introduce in some way in time again some celestial angels?? i hope they will, i want back devas, solars, gardinals..
#11
keveras
Sep 07, 2008 11:16:09 No one really misses the guardinals. Though aasimon as the new celestials would probably fit.
#12
Shemeska_the_Marauder
Sep 07, 2008 11:22:39
No one really misses the guardinaly.

I rather miss them.

Of course, I've also run a campaign plot arc in the plane that at least one member of WotC's 4e design team mocked as the "antithesis of fun". So my design sense clearly isn't on the level with theirs.
#13
keveras
Sep 07, 2008 12:50:34 Well, I've always regarded the angels to be the counterparts to the daemons. Not aasimon (solars etc.) but angels inspired by mythology (seraphim, cherubim and so on). Some people don't like this, but it works best for me.
#14
jiggawha_dup
Sep 07, 2008 16:43:58 I often used guardinals, especially Ni'ka, the boss in UnderSigil. They inspired a lot of mystery with their symbolism, one PC even played a musteval. Beside eladrins and quesars they were the most interesting. I hardly ever used servants of good deities (except Selune's shards and slivers, Sehanine's kholiatras and Curna's Harmonious Choirs of Words) and now they only survived.
#15
lord_karsus
Sep 08, 2008 10:16:39
Of course, I've also run a campaign plot arc in the plane that at least one member of WotC's 4e design team mocked as the "antithesis of fun". So my design sense clearly isn't on the level with theirs.

-Haven't we all? I know, my campaign is apparently not fun, because I have my players regularly use the Profession: Sailor skill. Who would have thought that's two years or so they've been putting up with not having fun, and not telling me. Oh well...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 creyzi4zb12 Sep 06, 2008 8:36:39	Some questions regarding angels and archons on the Realms 1. Are they (angels and archons) different beings? If so, then what are they 2. Where can I find some novels that talks about them? (I only know one on the Drizzt series) 3. Where do the guys live in? Here's an angel/archon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZM3OJ1X178
#2 keveras Sep 06, 2008 8:53:09	1. Now with 4e they are completely different. In previous editions both archons and angels were celestials. Now archons are elementals, while angels are servants of the deities. 2. Tomas Reid's The Gossamer Plain features an astral deva as a quite important supporting character. The guy in one of the Drizzt novels is called Al Dimeneira, a solar. 3. Now with 4e the archons live in the Elemantal Chaos and the angels reside with their deities at their respective dominions.
#3 creyzi4zb12 Sep 06, 2008 10:03:55	Are you saying that angels are seraphs? I also noticed one on Avatar.
#4 lord_karsus Sep 06, 2008 11:18:13	-The Monster Manual!
#5 kyblik Sep 06, 2008 12:05:15	The guy in one of the Drizzt novels is called Al Dimeneira, a solar. erm, little reminder in which Drizzt novel it is?? thx
#6 varyar Sep 06, 2008 16:37:27	erm, little reminder in which Drizzt novel it is?? thx The Crystal Shard, although he's only mentioned and doesn't appear directly. (He may show up in one of the later books, though - I've only read up to... hell, I don't remember. Three or four past the original trilogy.)
#7 Shemeska_the_Marauder Sep 06, 2008 19:31:59	Are you saying that angels are seraphs? I also noticed one on Avatar. Well, seraphs are a type of angel in real world theology, and in FR it's also a term used by some gods to designate a being as a chosen servitor. For instance Cyric had a chosen known as his Seraph of Lies. 4e angels are a lump group of divine servitors regardless of alignment. In 1e/2e/3e Aasimon (aka angels) were a collective group of good aligned deific servitors (solars, planetars, devas, etc), while evil gods tended to have their own unique servitor races supplemented with willing or mercenary fiends. There was in my opinion, more diversity and tailoring to the deity prior to 4e. Archons in 4e (aka elementals with helmets) are evil elemental beings. Archons in 1e/2e/3e were celestials beings of law and good, dwelling in Mount Celestia, inspired by some somewhat obscure real world mysticism.
#8 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Sep 06, 2008 20:33:03	Archons in 4e (aka elementals with helmets) are evil elemental beings. Archons in 1e/2e/3e were celestials beings of law and good, dwelling in Mount Celestia, inspired by some somewhat obscure real world mysticism. Yes, it's a bit hard to believe how changed archons are in 4E.
#9 lord_karsus Sep 06, 2008 20:54:16	-Helmets?
#10 kyblik Sep 07, 2008 3:58:11	do you think Wizards will introduce in some way in time again some celestial angels?? i hope they will, i want back devas, solars, gardinals..
#11 keveras Sep 07, 2008 11:16:09	No one really misses the guardinals. Though aasimon as the new celestials would probably fit.
#12 Shemeska_the_Marauder Sep 07, 2008 11:22:39	No one really misses the guardinaly. I rather miss them. Of course, I've also run a campaign plot arc in the plane that at least one member of WotC's 4e design team mocked as the "antithesis of fun". So my design sense clearly isn't on the level with theirs.
#13 keveras Sep 07, 2008 12:50:34	Well, I've always regarded the angels to be the counterparts to the daemons. Not aasimon (solars etc.) but angels inspired by mythology (seraphim, cherubim and so on). Some people don't like this, but it works best for me.
#14 jiggawha_dup Sep 07, 2008 16:43:58	I often used guardinals, especially Ni'ka, the boss in UnderSigil. They inspired a lot of mystery with their symbolism, one PC even played a musteval. Beside eladrins and quesars they were the most interesting. I hardly ever used servants of good deities (except Selune's shards and slivers, Sehanine's kholiatras and Curna's Harmonious Choirs of Words) and now they only survived.
#15 lord_karsus Sep 08, 2008 10:16:39	Of course, I've also run a campaign plot arc in the plane that at least one member of WotC's 4e design team mocked as the "antithesis of fun". So my design sense clearly isn't on the level with theirs. -Haven't we all? I know, my campaign is apparently not fun, because I have my players regularly use the Profession: Sailor skill. Who would have thought that's two years or so they've been putting up with not having fun, and not telling me. Oh well...