So when seen from the eyes of the DM or storyteller, aye, the two dieties have a large overlap. But the thing that devides their dogma's is Bane wants to rule life on the primes, Asmodeus has a more planar conquest strategy.
Asmodeus wants everyone's immortal soul.
It probably amuses him that Bane thinks he has such power... when he gets them all in the end.
Asmodeus has the Sin sphere of Influence (pretty impossible domain in practise)...
*laughs* I've always thought the same thing.
What do YOU think?
Evil Gods with potfolio overlap?
What do YOU think?
Only in a few cases--for example, we know that Corellon and Lolth are enemies, and the Raven Queen hates Orcus (though Orcus isn't technically a god). I don't recall anything about what Bane and Asmodeus think of each other. I doubt they like each other though (evil gods generally aren't fond of each other even if they all dislike the good guys).
In the "core" world, it's Asmodeus who's the god of Tyranny, and Bane is a god of War (my 4E books are packed away right now, so I can't copy down what the full portfolios are, sorry).
Evil Gods with potfolio overlap?
What do YOU think?
-Movie night, Tupperware parties, and sleep overs?
-Movie night, Tupperware parties, and sleep overs?
That's profound.
BTW. How did Asmodeus become a greater evil power? I know he was a pretty powerful being in the nine hells but that was in 3.5 e "Elminster in Hell" but how did he ascend to godhood
-He basically found Azuth, and sucked him dry, taking his divine energy and turning him from extremely powerful Archdevil to deity.
Asmodeus became a greater God of the MULTIVERSE by eating an FR god, ergo, we see another canon example of how FR is THE most important setting in the Universe. :P
I wonder if Asmodeus wants to get 'his' staff back from Cyric?
After all... the rule is "You keep what you Kill", so it should belong to Asm, not Cy.
Intermediate Deity = 10
Greater Deity = 15
Asmodeus = 13
Asmodeus + Azuth (Lesser Deity) = 17
-Mind you, these are just arbitrary numbers, but...
Lesser Deity = 5
Intermediate Deity = 10
Greater Deity = 15
Asmodeus = 13
Asmodeus + Azuth (Lesser Deity) = 17
-Mind you, these are just arbitrary numbers, but...
After thinking it over for awhile, I believe his rank could be represented by this equation:
Asmodeus + Azuth(lesser power) + worship power from cults of Asmodeus and other archdevils + power of his sphere of influence (everyone sins somehow) = Asmodeus (greater power)
Lesser Deity = 5
Intermediate Deity = 10
Greater Deity = 15
Asmodeus = 13
Asmodeus + Azuth (Lesser Deity) = 17
-Mind you, these are just arbitrary numbers, but...
Wait, Asmodeus 13? According to what? And where? And when? Even while they are just 'arbitrary numbers' would you please explain this in detail?
Divine Rank presumably...
Divine Rank would be 6, 11, and 16 ;)
was detailed in F&P, though I've no idea what system they use in 4e, if any.
Yes, none at all. Just Greater Gods and Gods and no DvR.
Heh, had absolutely no idea what DvR Asmodeus might have had, if any. But I don't really buy the whole statting those sorts of entities concept, so...
He had no DvR. That's why I would like to see an explanation for his 'arbitrary numbers'.
However, Divine Rank isn't a stats-only concept. It's just a measurement of how powerful a deity actually is or how much authority a deity wields.
Wait, Asmodeus 13? According to what? And where? And when? Even while they are just 'arbitrary numbers' would you please explain this in detail?
-Like I said, they are all arbitrary numbers. I was simply demonstrating that Asmodeus, regardless of how powerful he was beforehand would come out stronger after absorbing Azuth with some easy to follow arithmetic.
Ah. Ok that clears that part up for me thanks. So I guess when Asmodeus "ate" (lol still find that funny) Azuth he changed himself into a greater god or did it happen naturally?
-It should have happened naturally. He "ate" Azuth, which gave him Azuth's 'Divine Spark'. This transformed him from Archdevil to deity. Because of the power that Asmodeus wielded even before becoming a deity, his transformation into deity turned him into a Greater Deity.
What happens to devils when they are killed on their plane?
-That should kill them permanently. Mind you, I think the rules have changed a few times, so I'm not 100% sure. I'm mostly sure, though.
And do they have to w"worship" Asmodeus now that he's ascended to godhood?
-Plenty of people worshiped Asmodeus before he became a deity. Archdevils and Demon Lords can grant mortals spells and such, like deities. So, from a mortal's point of view, Archdevil, deity, it's all the same. I'd say that his worship is pretty much the same as it used to be- and that Asmodeus himself is mostly how he used to be- but now he's "technically" a deity, whereas he used to just "technically" be an Archdevil.
-No. Archdevils are Archdevils. They can be just as powerful as deities, but they aren't deities.
You're right, they're not.
They're both Outsiders, both can have worshippers and receive 'worship sauce' from them, are immensly powerful and usually have religions based around their worship, can only be killed on their homeplane, and obviously both can grant spells to followers.
Yup... they're reaaaaaal different, alrighty...
Just like Gods and Primordials.... :P
The sad part is, EVERYONE is the same, and everything else is a matter of semantics.
A thief is NOT a god, but Cyric, a lowly human thief, did become a god, and is obviously more powerful then many well-established gods.
You must look past all these... titles... assigned by human Sages. The power you currently wield determines what you are, and therefore everyone - gods, Fiends, Primordials, Celestials, and mortals, are all exactly the same type of creature at their core. What appelation a mere mortal feels like applying to you has no real bearing on the cosmic order.
Also, Divine Rank is a completley silly and un-realistic concept... unless applied to individual spheres. Corellon is a greater god in some spheres, and a lesser in others; In yet others he doesn't exist at all. Tiamet.. she held no les then three completely differet levels of power in the main three 2e core worlds. Orcus is a god on some worlds, and demon-lord on others; the same thing goes for Lolth.
DVR can be accurately applied to a beings power level within a sphere, dimension, or Plane, but NOT to the being itself. If I want to fight Tiamet, would I be fighting Tiamet the monster from Greyhawk, or Takhisis the uber-god from Dragonlance? It really all depends on where the battle takes place...
This is why gods - or any being of significant power - avoid things like time-travel, despite the rather obvious benefits it could reap. You are only as powerful in that time period as you were in that time period - if Kelemmvor went back to kill Cyric before he ascended (to save Mystra), there's a good chance Cyric would beat Kelemvor, because kelemvor was merely human humself at that point. Also, the act of your moving through the timestream changes things - if you move forward in time, you are considered 'missing from the world' during that period you are 'skipping over' - you may not have any followers or power left when you come out the other side.
This is why the universe has rules, and why only low-powered (or foolish) adventurers dabble in the Time-Stream. Just ask the Chronomancer, who died before his time.
Gods have to be very careful about when and where they are. Mortals, not so much.
You're right, they're not.
-I know. Just like the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury aren't the same thing, even though both are politically powerful religious positions affiliated with Christianity in Europe.
Also, Divine Rank is a completley silly and un-realistic concept... unless applied to individual spheres. Corellon is a greater god in some spheres, and a lesser in others; In yet others he doesn't exist at all. Tiamet.. she held no les then three completely differet levels of power in the main three 2e core worlds. Orcus is a god on some worlds, and demon-lord on others; the same thing goes for Lolth.
DVR can be accurately applied to a beings power level within a sphere, dimension, or Plane, but NOT to the being itself. If I want to fight Tiamet, would I be fighting Tiamet the monster from Greyhawk, or Takhisis the uber-god from Dragonlance? It really all depends on where the battle takes place...
Where is Corellon a lesser deity? Further, Orcus once possessed divinity, so I see no reason why he can't be worshipped as a deity in some places. And Lolth actually is both a deity and a demon lord.
Aside from that, you're right, power is really a relative concept and it depends on various factors.
This is why gods - or any being of significant power - avoid things like time-travel, despite the rather obvious benefits it could reap.
Doesn't necessarily be THE reason, but it's definitely a good reason.
See, now I say its up to the DM how much authority a given entity/deity actually weilds... Sure, Zeus is going to have more authority than Geoff, the god of biscuits, but maybe I decide that Simon, the god of hairdo's is actually the guy running stuff in the background, behind the throne, so Zeus isn't as powerful as the book says, making the stat worthless to me... ;)
I see. So you're unable to change DvR 19 (one number, not some extensive stats) to DvR 16. Well... ok.
Where is Corellon a lesser deity?
-Nowhere that we know of, but it is theoretically possible, if his inherent divinity is not "strong enough", and he finds himself in a Crystal Sphere where worship influences power, and he has a relatively small following.
-Nowhere that we know of, but it is theoretically possible, if his inherent divinity is not "strong enough", and he finds himself in a Crystal Sphere where worship influences power, and he has a relatively small following.
Theoretically, yes, though unlikely, 'cause canon proves that Corellon, as the god of elves, is on most worlds a greater deity and on worlds where this wouldn't necessarily be the case (e.g. because of the presence of another god who claims to be the creator/protector of the elves [Paladine]) he isn't even around.
And I didn't say you said it. Anyway, if we go by theoretically possible anything could be possible. In some twisted way. Or not.
I see. So you're unable to change DvR 19 (one number, not some extensive stats) to DvR 16. Well... ok.
Well of course I could change it... but then I have to come up with a justification for it, rewrite things to have it make more sense, and by that time, it would have been better had WotC not even published the book so that I didn't have to do all that extra work. They should be reading my mind and publishing things that take my individual needs and wants into account, because I'm that damned special. :P
:D
-Right. It's theoretically possible that, in the vast infiniteness of the universe, there exists an infinite amount of planets exactly similar to Earth, down to the last detail, in which an infinite amount of exact copies of ourselves are doing the exact same things we are doing right now.
That was my point.
If a small tribe of Elves exists somewhere on our earth, perhaps deep in the Amazon Jungle, then Corellon would have a very small presence in our sphere.
It goes by number of worshippers, for the most part, and we are used to worlds where Corellon is either all-important (because Elves are), or non-existant (because Elves aren't present, or Corellon has been supplanted by someone else).
We really have no canon examples of a world with a small number of Elves that I can think of, but as LK has said, such a thing must be possible.
On Athas, there is an ancestor/founder myth based around someone called Coraanu - if that is indeed Corellon, then he would most likely be no more then a demigod/Exarch on that world (Athas has no gods, AFAIK).
It goes by number of worshippers, for the most part, and we are used to worlds where Corellon is either all-important (because Elves are), or non-existant (because Elves aren't present, or Corellon has been supplanted by someone else).
-The 'number of worshipers' and 'fervor of worshipers' part could, in theory, negate a low total on either side. A small few, who are very pious, or a great deal, who aren't all that pious.
-(6 x 10 = 60) and ( 3 x 20 = 60) are balanced equations.