i was wondering if the more elven savvy posters would know if it's plausible for an avariel to cut the wings off of a kinsman as a style of exile and what theoretical offences might lead to such an event.
any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
No.
That would be like a human cutting off another human's legs and then sending him out into the world. The only current group of Elves that would purposely disfgure their own are the Drow, and I don't think even they would cut off another Drow's arms and send them into the Underdark (they'd just kill them out-right).
Thats not a punishment - that's a life-long torture to someone who is used to flying. I can see a VERY cruel enemy doing that, but NOT another Avariel.
Just my
P.S. - however, a DM can do whatever he wants, and if he feels it is justified for some reason, then it's his (or her) call, especially if it serves a purpose in the story he is trying to tell. I suppose if the Avarial betrayed his clan and gave away their secret location to an enemy who then wiped out most of them, such a thing could conceivably be done as a form of revenge against the betrayer.
-Such treatment sounds feasible by someone capturing the Avariel, but, no I don't think that such a punishment would be bestowed on an Avariel by another Avariel.
Indeed, I am reminded of Aerie in BG2--she was forced to spent lots of time in a cage, so her wings atrophied and had to be cut off.
Of course, that was all thanks to the treatment of cruel humans, not other avariel.
Just ideas.
That would be like a human cutting off another human's legs and then sending him out into the world. The only current group of Elves that would purposely disfgure their own are the Drow, and I don't think even they would cut off another Drow's arms and send them into the Underdark (they'd just kill them out-right).
Thats not a punishment - that's a life-long torture to someone who is used to flying. I can see a VERY cruel enemy doing that, but NOT another Avariel.
Just my
-Wow that is pretty brutal. Cyric is very pleased. :P
-What do you call a man with no arms and legs, floating in a swimming pool? ;)
18DELTA (Chosen of Cyric) :D
Perhaps something that imposes a Burden effect (yes, I know, too much Morrowind and Oblivion)...
-What is that? Similar in concept to my "Permanent Reverse Levitate"?
In either case, the frost giants or white dragons would likely kill the poor avariel afterwards, unless they escape or are for some reason released as a 'message' to the enemy.
I suppose for an avariel to be punished this way, they'd have to have performed some really quite horrific crimes, against their own race (avariel warriors are quite ruthless in battle against their enemies). Drow-level atrocities, or real betrayal to the white dragons or frost giants. The others might say "you're not one of us" and take their wings to prove it.
food for thought. so it is possible for poachers to value avariel wings as hunting trophies?
that was my first thought but i found nothing backing that theory. i'm kind of a sticker for realism, relatively speaking :D
hmm, thank you everybody.
food for thought. so it is possible for poachers to value avariel wings as hunting trophies?
that was my first thought but i found nothing backing that theory. i'm kind of a sticker for realism, relatively speaking :D
The savage races probably would, such as the frost giants I mentioned. You might see an orc or a drow or whatever doing the same, as trophies to proclaim their skill or superiority, or just as a memento of the time they met and murdered a rare winged elf.
The more civilised races would be much less likely to actually hunt avariel for their wings, unless it was a particularly cruel society, like Thay or Calimshan maybe (getting back to our savage orcs and drow here). In better lands, keeping an avariel's wings would be like collecting elf ears or stuffed dwarf footstools, not really social acceptable. An elf who saw it would be enraged. Better viewed in private with a select group of like-minded psychopaths. (Well, I imagine. I don't know the circumstances of the BG2 avariel character.)
The Avariel realizes it's a prisoner and goes running for the window - passing through the magical field that turns its wings etheral.
Ain't I a stinker? :P
or a mix of both?
That depends; you're effectively making a new race. What combo of features would be balanced? Also, on which side of the family is the avariel/drow raised? Which are features are genetic, and which are cultural, social or environmental? Although, as it's lost its wings, that makes the statting easier.
At a guess, I'd say take a drow, maybe switch the +2 Cha for +2 Wis, use the avariel weapon proficiencies, and call it a day. The increased Dex, Spot and Jump should be decreased, so they might as well stay the same (+2 Dex as standard, +2 Spot as standard, no Jump, as no wings, just spend some skill points on it). You're talking 3.5 rules, right?
yeah, 3.5 rules. that sounds pretty good to be honest. i have little to no experience in mixed perentage as i normally only play/dm pure characters.
although perhaps +4 dex, would a +4 CHA be plausible, since both sub-races are known for their looks/force of personality?
despite not having wings etc, would ECL +3 still be more balanced than say ECL +2?
The Charisma probably should increase. The bonus of each race is really from the same source - Elven looks and Elven personality, just put to different uses between the races. Combining them should give the same - Elven looks and Elven personality, +2 Cha.
Does the main Avarel nest still exist? where is it exactly because I dont remember seeing it on a map anywhere? I was going to make up something for my game like Manbat from Batman and I wanted to use evil Avarel.
Avariel live at the Aerie Of The Snow Eagle, a secret crystal citadel sitting atop a mountain that had its point sheared off (the by-product of a Netherese floating city), in the Icerim Mountains of Sossal, near the Great Glacier. It rarely appears on maps because most maps don't go that far north.
As to their status in 4e, I have no idea.
Thank you though.
food for thought. so it is possible for poachers to value avariel wings as hunting trophies?
-Certainly. Most definitely. Gives me an interesting idea for a "Big Game Hunter" type evil NPC, actually...
I am a fan of Psionic punishment. I think a realy twisted Psionic npc of the right level could use "mind swap" (please don't quote the power name) and take the avariels mind and place it into a non-avariel's body. There live as a lower life form. But hey thats just me.
-A foe would do that, but fellow Elves wouldn't. Again, Elves abhor (and are partially immune to) mind-controlling effects and enchantments.
Completely useless, but fun just the same. I'd go with #2 there probably, because I like the RP possibilites, and if a player wants a custom-build, they got to appeal to my evil side.
I wouldn't do a stat-blend, since Elves are canonically either one sub-race or the other, so I'd just give a few cosmetic differences like those above (their choice).
-What is that? Similar in concept to my "Permanent Reverse Levitate"?
Sorry LK, I didn't see this before now.
Yes, it is similar to your Permanent Reverse Levitate. Being the geeky physicist that I am, I was wondering how you could actually get this to work. I thought that if you could increase the mass of the wings then the Avariel in question couldn't fly. My thoughts about this were:
1) increasing the local gravity magically.
2) feeding the avariel something that is taken up specifically into the flight muscles or wing bone structures, like a heavy metal.. something inert like gold possibly giving rise to terms like "gilded wings" or some such... the fluff appeals (the nasty chemistry doesn't).
3) Or the same as two but in a magical fashion... it all depends on whether avariel flight is a magical or physical effect or a mix of the two.
Yes, yes I know I am thinking too much about this.
A human of 100 lbs needs about 144 sq ft of wingspan when flapping 30 times a minute to generate enough lift in strong wind (according to this ornithopter site). Thats about 32 ft wingspan. An avariel weighing about 50 lbs could probably generate enough lift with a wingspan of about 16 feet.
Avariel have wingspans of 12 to 16 feet and weigh about 75 pounds.
Then again, Physics and D&D don't mix well.
Back to the original topic, from Demihumans Of The Realms:
Winged elves have been known to the Red Wizards of Thay for several decades. These wizards and their agents now hunt avariel for their wings, which are used to make potions of flying and wings of flying. Some giants in Sossal and on the Great Glacier also hunt avariel for their wings, but the giants use the wings for decorating their helmets. Avariels are in danger of being hunted into extinction.
What a delightfully devilish mind does Ka'Narlist have. Too bad I am currently not DMming but playing... otherwise I'd stolen this
-He does indeed display a delightfully devilish mind.