Aglarond < East Rift < Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep
Aglarond gets one preselected language, a class skill, and +1 to said skill.
East Rift gets one preselected language, a class skill, and +2 to said skill.
Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep get one free language, a class skill, and +2 to said skill.
Also, is it just me or does being from Impiltur suck if you rely more on Con than Wis? What if my hammer fighter wanted to be from Impiltur for flavor reasons? He just doesn't get any benefit from his background at all?
I don't have my books in front of me. So I have a question.
Does being from Aglarond grant you anything extra in terms of starting equipment that East Rift and Balder's Gate do not?
Hello,
I don't have my books in front of me. So I have a question.
Does being from Aglarond grant you anything extra in terms of starting equipment that East Rift and Balder's Gate do not?
I think TWS is referring to the LFR preview material from here.
Imho the differences are ok considering that you gain them for free, and don't have to sacrifice your level 1 feat for them like in 3E. However, we don't know yet if you gain bonus equipment like in 3E with the revised regional stuff from the PGtF. Also, considering that this is a preview and not an excerpt, we cannot be sure if these backgrounds are the ones going to be printed in the FRCG.
Regarding Impiltur, it's a very weak benefit anyway. Note that it explicitly says "to your starting hit points"? That means that you don't gain additional hit points if you later increased Wis, because you only gain subsequent hit points from increasing your Con (4E PH pg 27).
Imho the differences are ok considering that you gain them for free, and don't have to sacrifice your level 1 feat for them like in 3E.
It's just annoying. Unless there are additional benefits we don't know about, it just seems they're saying "Yeah this one is better than that one for no reason, so what?"
I remember being able to build an incredibly unbalanced Munchin in 2e by taking advantage of all the loopholes, including a certain Kit that allowed my warrior some of the thief's abilities.
Then I multied the Fighter as a priest.. of Mystra, and was able to use ALL four of the core classes abilites/powers. :D
Maybe there's a good reason I don't get to play too often. :P
-Do these stat/ability bonuses apply to Humans only?
Uhhh... why should they?
And, presumably, there will be more than these select ones, correct?
The LFR site mentions "further benefits based on region that may become available at a later time" (or somesuch). Considering that this is only a preview I think there may be some more to it (like additional equipment similar to 3E's PGtF).
-Do these stat/ability bonuses apply to Humans only? And, presumably, there will be more than these select ones, correct?
1) Of course not.
2) Sure. The ones I'm talking about are a small part of all the RPGA legal backgrounds, and even those aren't the only ones.
Uhhh... why should they?
-Because other Races get Racial bonuses. Elves, for instance, get X, Y and Z. Is an Elf from Aglarond going to get these Aglarond bonuses, on top of his/her Elven bonuses?
In other words, you can get a Racial Feat and you get a Feat (background) dependent upon where and how you were raised - this is how they plan on defferentiating between things that used to be part of the sub-races . An Elf raised in a city is going to have a completely different background then one raised in the forest.
Humans already get a racial feat - its the FREE FEAT they automatically get. Humans, being what they are, have unlimited possibilites, so their racial feat is any feat. ;)
In other words, you can get a Racial Feat and you get a Feat (background) dependent upon where and how you were raised - this is how they plan on defferentiating between things that used to be part of the sub-races . An Elf raised in a city is going to have a completely different background then one raised in the forest.
-Okay. Thank you.
Aglarond Regional Benefit: It give you a free Elven language that can be useful to those who don´t belong to elven races but if you belong to race that could speak elven then this little benefit is wasted. Gained Perception as class skill can be useful if your current class is lacking that skill and you want to pick that skill as trained. Gained +1 on Perception seem to be pretty weak but Perception is one of the most useful skills because you will always use it if you need to spot a ambush, traps, finding secret entrance and so on. So I can understand why they give only +1 to Perception instead for +2 or else it become too useful. This regional benefit may be little useful for rogue or ranger who want to have little extra bonus on Perception skill.
Akanûl Regional Benefit: Gain resist 2 on Cold, Fire and Thunder can be useful if you encounter enemies that use one of those effect but or else they may not be very useful if you encounter enemies that rarely use any of elementals attack maybe except fire. It get better when you increased to level 11 you will gain +3 to resist instead and at level 21 it become +5 instead. This regional benefit may be useful if you are gonna play as firesoul genasi, windsoul genasi or tiefling because it increase their current resist value making them even more harder to damage with one of those elements.
Baldur´s Gate Regional Benefit: Gained a free choice of language is very good and you can choice which language that you don´t have. Gained Streetwise as class skill can be useful if your current class is lacking that skill and you want to pick that skill as trained. Gained +2 to Streetwise is great bonus if you having adventures around in village, town or city. This regional benefit is useful for rogue or warlock who want to have extra bonus on Streetwise.
Cormyr Regional Benefit: Gained Insight as class skill can be useful if your current class is lacking that skill and you want to pick that skill as trained. Gained +2 to Insight skill can be pretty useful if you are dealing with enemies who use their Bluff skill at you. Gained +2 saving throw against fear effects is very useful if you are dealing with enemies who use fear effects on you. This regional benefit is useful for half-elf because they will gain another +2 to their Insight skill and make them extremely effective against Bluff checks and senses for suspecting behavior. Halflings can take this benefit too because it will increase their saving throws against fear effects to +7 and make them even more bolder!
Dalelands Regional Benefit: Gained ability to make a reroll on Nature can be useful if you make a bad rolls but problem is that you must keep the second result even it is worst than your first roll, so I recommend that you only make reroll if your dice roll is real low. Gained +1 to Initiative is a nice bonus to have when you want to have little higher chance to go first in combat. This regional benefit can be useful for elf ranger who need a little reroll on their Nature skill and +1 to their Initiative check.
Dragon Coast Regional Benefit: Gained a free choice of language is very good and you can choice which language that you don´t have. Gained ability to make a reroll on Insight can be useful if you make a bad rolls but problem is that you must keep the secound result even it is worst than your first roll, so I recommed that you only make reroll if your dice roll is real low. This regional benefit is little more suited for half-elf with their Insight bonus and want to have chance to make reroll on bad rolls on their Insight check.
East Rift Regional Benefit: It give you a free Deep Speech language that can be useful to those who don´t speak Deep Speech, many player races don´t have this language so it will not become too useless. Gained Dungeonerring as class skill can be useful if your current class is lacking that skill and you want to pick that skill as trained. Gained +2 to Dungeonerring is quit useful if your adventures are dealing with dungeons and the Underdark. This regional benefit is extremely useful for dwarf ranger because they will gain another +2 to their Dungeonerring skill and making them real expert of dungeons.
Impiltur Regional Benefit: Their regional benefit is quit unique because you can add your Wisdom score instead for Constitution score to HP if your Wisdom is higher than your Constitution. It can be very useful you are gonna play as cleric who is focus on their Wisdom or a control wizard. But if your Constitution is higher than your Wisdom then this benefit become completely useless.
Luruar Regional Benefit: Gained a free choice of language is very good and you can choice which language that you don´t have. Gained ability to make a reroll on History can be useful if you make a bad rolls but problem is that you must keep the second result even it is worst than your first roll, so I recommend that you only make reroll if your dice roll is real low. This regional benefit is best suited for dragonborn or eldadrin who have bonus to their History skills and want to have chance to make reroll on bad rolls on their History check.
Moonshae Isles Regional Benefit: It give you a free Elven language that can be useful to those who don´t belong to elven races but if you belong to race that could speak elven then this little benefit is wasted. Gained +2 to saving throws against charm and fear effects is useful if you encounter those effects. This regional benefit is suited for eladrin who have bonus to saving throw against charm effect. With this benefit eladrin can total +7 to their saving throws against charm effects. Halflings can take this benefit too because it will increase their saving throws against fear effects to +7 and make them even more bolder.
Tymanther Regional Benefit: Gained Athletics as class skill can be useful if your current class is lacking that skill and you want to pick that skill as trained. Gained +2 to Athletics is quit useful when you need to climb, escaping from grab, jumping and swimming. This is one of regional that are lacking a other minor benefit like languages but maybe because Athletics skill is very useful for most adventures.
Waterdeep Regional Benefit: Gained a free choice of language is very good and you can choice which language that you don´t have. Gained Diplomacy as class skill can be useful if your current class is lacking that skill and you want to pick that skill as trained. Gained +2 to Diplomacy skill can be pretty useful when you need to talk with somebody or to changing their attitude. This regional benefit is useful for half-elf because they will gain another +2 to their Diplomacy skill and make them extremely effective diplomat and negotiator.
Humans already get a racial feat - its the FREE FEAT they automatically get.
And they get +2 to any stat.
Did I mention I love humans in 4E? :D
And, presumably, there will be more than these select ones, correct?
Yep. On the first page of the preview, it says that "most of the character backgrounds" aren't in the preview, and that there are "many more backgrounds". So yeah, there'll be more. I'm assuming one per every regioin in Faerun. These 12 were previewed because they're associated with the 12 regions in Living Forgotten Realms. Can't wait to see the rest, though. I'm especially looking forward to seeing what you get for being from The Vast!
Also, is it just me or does being from Impiltur suck if you rely more on Con than Wis? What if my hammer fighter wanted to be from Impiltur for flavor reasons? He just doesn't get any benefit from his background at all?
Is this 4th ed?
And they get +2 to any stat.
Because humans are versatile... and kewl in 4e. :D
Is this 4th ed?
It is.
Is this 4th ed?
-Yes. I wish Races of Faerûn did something like this.
Uhhh... why should they?
Agreed. Why a human from Waterdeep gains bonuses, but his elf neighbour doesn't... IT'S RACISM. Corellon-damned welfare abusing humans!
I REALLY don't like this system. Stereotypes. But I'm one of those cruel DM's that would never allow Blooded as a regional feat unless the person's got a background to back it up.
But I'm one of those cruel DM's that would never allow Blooded as a regional feat unless the person's got a background to back it up.
-I guess I'm a really cruel DM, then.
And +1 to Fort, Ref, and Will. And an extra Trained Skill.
Did I mention I love humans in 4E? :D
I do too.
mostly because the police warned me about animals... :embarrass
Its damn hard to find ANYTHING that beats that power-wise at 1st level.
Not that I play Munchkins, or anything... :P
[...] Its damn hard to find ANYTHING that beats that power-wise at 1st level.
True.
Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Cleave. This made usually short work of kobolds and goblins (and perhaps even orcs - if they wouldn't hit you :P ).
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain), Combat Expertise, Improved Trip. Evil... veeeeeeeeeeeery evil.
Not that I play Munchkins, or anything... :P
Before 3e, I rarely ran a human
I played humans almost all the time before 3E, and while I preferred playing humans just based on personal preference, wow, was it painful! Everyone else got these snazzy racial bonuses and could multiclass while I got the shaft. Glad that's over.
Before 3e, I rarely ran a human
Assuming you had the stats for it (or were in some kind of a point buy system), human dual-classing was king of the 2E jungle. Really nothing else was even competitive. It's not a complete coincidence that under the 2E Realms they decided Elminster was a 4x dual classed fighter -> thief -> cleric -> wizard.
From a power-whoring perspective, at the least.
It's not a complete coincidence that under the 2E Realms they decided Elminster was a 4x dual classed fighter -> thief -> cleric -> wizard.
-Well, to be fair (or unfair? Whatever), most of that stems from the stories written about him (primarily Elminster: Making of a Mage).
-Well, to be fair (or unfair? Whatever), most of that stems from the stories written about him (primarily Elminster: Making of a Mage).
To be fair, Ed didn't intend for El to be statted.
To be fair, Ed didn't intend for El to be statted.
-Not that every little thing needs to be statted. His time as a Rogue could be displayed as extra skill points in thief-like skills, or in 2e, thief-like skill professions, or whatever they're called. I never played 2e.
Assuming you had the stats for it (or were in some kind of a point buy system), human dual-classing was king of the 2E jungle. Really nothing else was even competitive.
I don't think it's as good as you think it is for several reasons. For one, the stat requirements were pretty insane. You'd need at least Str 15 if you wanted to dualclass out of Fighter. If you wanted to dualclass into Thief you'd need Dex 17. Same goes for Cleric and Wizard, who'd also need 17 in Wis and Int. And that's just taking into account the classes with one prerequisite. Dualclassing into Paladin would require Str 17, Con 17, Wis 17, and Cha 17, while Ranger would require Str 17, Dex 17, Con 17, and Wis 17.
Second, once you left a class, you could never go back to it. So unlike a multiclass character, you couldn't keep advancing two or more classes. Third and finally, until your new class became higher level then your old class, you didn't gain new hit points. On top of that, if you used the abilities of any of your old classes, then not only would you get ZERO experience for the encounter, but you'd get half experience for the entire adventure! Old class abilities included using attack bonuses, saving throws, etc. So say you were a 5th-level Fighter/1st-level Wizard. You would have to use the saving throws and attack bonuses of a 1st-level Wizard for your 6th-level character if you wanted to gain any XP. And you wouldn't gain any additional hit points until you reached 12th-level. Maybe I'm missing something due to the passing of years and skimming the rules section, but considering how difficult it is to dualclass in the first place, dualclassing itself looks to be a great big ball of suck.
It's not a complete coincidence that under the 2E Realms they decided Elminster was a 4x dual classed fighter -> thief -> cleric -> wizard.
From a power-whoring perspective, at the least.
Was he ever statted as such in 2E? I don't recall seeing him statted like that until 3E. In the 1E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, he was noted as being a 26th-level magic user. In the 2E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, he was listed as a 29th-level Wizard. In Heroes Lorebook (where he's fully statted out) he's a 29th-level Mage. Don't know how many other books had his class and level listed, but I don't recall ever seeing him listed as dualclassed. Whenever he appeared, he was simply a Wizard and nothing more.
To be fair, Ed didn't intend for El to be statted.
He was statted by Ed in a dragon magazine (circa 1986) before even the gray box. Was one of the earliest forays into the realms.
They never gave him any psionic leves in 3e though - they just sorta swept that under the table.
hey, the guy's a thousand! He can have as many levels of whatever he wants. :P
As for the thread subject - I'm waiting on the "Child of Ao" background. :D
I don't think it's as good as you think it is for several reasons. For one, the stat requirements were pretty insane. You'd need at least Str 15 if you wanted to dualclass out of Fighter. If you wanted to dualclass into Thief you'd need Dex 17. Same goes for Cleric and Wizard, who'd also need 17 in Wis and Int. And that's just taking into account the classes with one prerequisite. Dualclassing into Paladin would require Str 17, Con 17, Wis 17, and Cha 17, while Ranger would require Str 17, Dex 17, Con 17, and Wis 17.
Second, once you left a class, you could never go back to it. So unlike a multiclass character, you couldn't keep advancing two or more classes. Third and finally, until your new class became higher level then your old class, you didn't gain new hit points. On top of that, if you used the abilities of any of your old classes, then not only would you get ZERO experience for the encounter, but you'd get half experience for the entire adventure! Old class abilities included using attack bonuses, saving throws, etc. So say you were a 5th-level Fighter/1st-level Wizard. You would have to use the saving throws and attack bonuses of a 1st-level Wizard for your 6th-level character if you wanted to gain any XP. And you wouldn't gain any additional hit points until you reached 12th-level. Maybe I'm missing something due to the passing of years and skimming the rules section, but considering how difficult it is to dualclass in the first place, dualclassing itself looks to be a great big ball of suck.
Was he ever statted as such in 2E? I don't recall seeing him statted like that until 3E. In the 1E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, he was noted as being a 26th-level magic user. In the 2E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, he was listed as a 29th-level Wizard. In Heroes Lorebook (where he's fully statted out) he's a 29th-level Mage. Don't know how many other books had his class and level listed, but I don't recall ever seeing him listed as dualclassed. Whenever he appeared, he was simply a Wizard and nothing more.
To the dual class issue... Yes at first glance it looks like it sucks, but it still gave you benefits. You have to remember that you are adventuring with people who, after you dual class, are higher level than you, yet you still get an equal share of experienc, which means you leveled up much quicker. Also you still had access to a wide array of magic items, which meant that you could easily offset some lost ability. No, it was always worth it if you had the stats. Besides, without dual classing, there wouldn't have been any bards in 1st edition (Storm Silverhand comes to mind, although IIRC she went thief-fighter-bard, rather than fighter-thief-bard).
As for Elminster, I am trying to locate the issue of Dragon mag in question, difficult, since Paizo doesn't give info on the old ones on their page, but I have a pretty good ideea where to look. And that is 1st edition. In 2nd edition try FR7 Hall of Heroes, I think he is statted there as well.
I don't think it's as good as you think it is for several reasons. For one, the stat requirements were pretty insane. You'd need at least Str 15 if you wanted to dualclass out of Fighter. If you wanted to dualclass into Thief you'd need Dex 17. Same goes for Cleric and Wizard, who'd also need 17 in Wis and Int. And that's just taking into account the classes with one prerequisite. Dualclassing into Paladin would require Str 17, Con 17, Wis 17, and Cha 17, while Ranger would require Str 17, Dex 17, Con 17, and Wis 17.
Second, once you left a class, you could never go back to it. So unlike a multiclass character, you couldn't keep advancing two or more classes. Third and finally, until your new class became higher level then your old class, you didn't gain new hit points. On top of that, if you used the abilities of any of your old classes, then not only would you get ZERO experience for the encounter, but you'd get half experience for the entire adventure! Old class abilities included using attack bonuses, saving throws, etc. So say you were a 5th-level Fighter/1st-level Wizard. You would have to use the saving throws and attack bonuses of a 1st-level Wizard for your 6th-level character if you wanted to gain any XP. And you wouldn't gain any additional hit points until you reached 12th-level. Maybe I'm missing something due to the passing of years and skimming the rules section, but considering how difficult it is to dualclass in the first place, dualclassing itself looks to be a great big ball of suck.
Actually, in that case you'd start getting points again at Wizard 6.
Honestly, it may not look that good on paper, but if you really crunch out all the details or play with it for a while you start to see it.
Don't forget about 18 percentile strength in 1E/2E, and the 'fighter con bonus' -- no one but a fighter type could be more than +2hp/level from con -- if you started as a fighter, you got these bonuses, and you got to keep them as you dual classed. These only matter in higher stat or point buy games, but... they're advantage enough (plus weapon specialization) that a character who wants to be a thief, wizard, or cleric and has at least a 15 strength should always be a fighter for at least 2 levels first just to get them. That 2000 xp hit for it is beyond insignificant in the grand scheme of things as characters start needing hundreds of thousands of XP to level past 10 or so.
One thing you have to factor in is the 2E experience charts. For less total XP than a single level of wizard at the higher levels, you can have something like 7 levels of fighter and 9 levels of cleric (or more likely specialty priest, since, Realms). At that point you've already got better THACO and saving throws in some categories than a level 20 straight wizard will ever have. You've got weapon specialization, if you care -- something multiclass fighter/wizards don't even get in 2E, if I remember correctly. You've got a LOT more hit points than any other high level wizard, which is especially big when (for example) the power words start showing up. You get a bunch of great curing and defensive spells to shore up your weaknesses as a wizard and let you focus on memorizing wizard spells for killing. You'll also advance into the later levels of wizard much, much faster than a multiclass character.
Yeah, you temporarily take a power hit as you dual class into your new class, but as long as the whole party isn't doing it at the same time, they can help cover for your weakness, and you'll zip through those low levels incredibly fast. And, hey, if you need to go to your fighter saves to avoid dying, it's a hit, but you're still ahead of the game.
As far as Elminster: You're right that he was statted as wizard at 1e and at first in 2e, although it was also noted that he had a curious lot of HP for a wizard for some as-yet-unrevealed reason. During the middle of the 2E years they published Ed's Elminster novel, which details him dual classing through all 4 core classes. Thereafter I believe his 2E stats reflected this, but I can't find them published that way anywhere handy at the moment so it's possible I'm wrong.
El also had a few wild psionic talents, which even show up in the earliest novel.
They never gave him any psionic leves in 3e though - they just sorta swept that under the table.
hey, the guy's a thousand! He can have as many levels of whatever he wants. :P
-When the FRCS was published, the Psionics Handbook hadn't been published yet. There were no Psionics yet, and I don't think they could have pulled what they pulled with Epic Levels, being that Psionics is a whole new ruleset.
-When the FRCS was published, the Psionics Handbook hadn't been published yet. There were no Psionics yet, and I don't think they could have pulled what they pulled with Epic Levels, being that Psionics is a whole new ruleset.
Not to mention that his psionics in 1st edition were the same ones that everyone had, because most people who wanted them managed to convince the DM to let them. Elminster had to use them to be able to be considered the preeminent mage. Just as when Spellfire entered the realms, of course Elminster had that power (in Spellfire he says he does to Storm, Ed retconned it to be silver fire - at least in the books).
-Spellfire and Silverfire are very similar. Maybe it was an in-character thing that someone got wrong? I don't know...I never played in those earlier editions, and I've never read said novels, so...
No, Elminster very definitely explains spellfire to Storm, and she has no idea what it is, he says he has that talent as well. The whole chosen of Mystra with the seven sisters is itself a retcon that came about in Ed's novels. Read Spellfire and you see the "chosen" are not yet a factor.
In 2nd edition try FR7 Hall of Heroes, I think he is statted there as well.
Just checked that and he's not listed as a dualclassed character there, either. Just a 26th-level Magic User. Although that version also has psionics.
Maybe I'm missing something due to the passing of years and skimming the rules section, but considering how difficult it is to dualclass in the first place, dualclassing itself looks to be a great big ball of suck.
LOL! I do think it's improvement that humans can multiclass like everyone else. I honestly never understood the rationale behind NOT letting them do that.
Was he ever statted as such in 2E? I don't recall seeing him statted like that until 3E.
Agreed. Elminster was just a wizard pre-3E, and honestly I prefer him that way (he really doesn't need stats to begin with).
Time flows didfferently in the Realms then it does here, so even though El appears at Ed's house every few months or so, dozens of years go by each time for Elminster.
So, yeah, about 500 years have gone by on Toril since 1986.
Don't believe me? We just turned around and another century flew by. :P
-Ugh.
Yep, quite frustrating that the only constant in the realms is retcons.
Yep, quite frustrating that the only constant in the realms is retcons.
-I was really 'ughing' more at the stupid notion that Elminster came to Earth and tells Ed Greenwood about the Forgotten Realms.
-I was really 'ughing' more at the stupid notion that Elminster came to Earth and tells Ed Greenwood about the Forgotten Realms.
What, you mean you don't have wizards popping in for tea, and to give you the news of their homelands? This guy shows up at my place at least once a week, long beard, staff, and robes... Threatens to turn me into a newt if I don't give him whiskey.
-No, I'm happy (unhappy?) to say I don't have that problem. Now, if only I could do something about the air conditioning in my room, I'd be all set.
I'll send a bunch of kobolds over to fix it.
I'll send a bunch of kobolds over to fix it.
Oh sure, they'll fix the air conditioning, but they will eat everything in the fridge and steal all your stuff. Plus it takes days to get rid of the smell.
Oh sure, they'll fix the air conditioning, but they will eat everything in the fridge and steal all your stuff. Plus it takes days to get rid of the smell.
Do not underestimate my kobolds! They've got crossbows, traps and ballistae for all occasions!
I'll send a bunch of kobolds over to fix it.
-Um...Thanks, I guess.
Oh sure, they'll fix the air conditioning, but they will eat everything in the fridge and steal all your stuff. Plus it takes days to get rid of the smell.
-In that case, I might have to kill them and take their stuff, afterwards.
Gnomes would probably do a better job, but I doubt any of them would work for a Nethrease Archmage. :P
Well he might be able to get a house-elf (though they aren't listed in Elves of Faerun) being a wizard and all...