And what happened to a lot of those gods and goddesses that aren't in the edition 4 FRCS?
What book is the best book to get information about deities? Edition 2 Faiths and Avatars or edition 3 Faiths and Pantheons?
A lot of people say F&A, although I don't own that one yet.
And what happened to a lot of those gods and goddesses that aren't in the edition 4 FRCS?
There are details about the fates of some of those deities, but not all of them. It'd be easier to answer a more specific question.
What book is the best book to get information about deities? Edition 2 Faiths and Avatars or edition 3 Faiths and Pantheons?
-It depends on your preference. F&A has a lot more information than F&P, but only on certain deities. The 2e books were actually in a trilogy of sourcebooks- one was for greater deities and such, one for lesser deities and such, and the last for Demihuman deities.
And what happened to a lot of those gods and goddesses that aren't in the edition 4 FRCS?
-Anyone in mind specifically? Some have changed (like Lathander), some are dead (like Azuth), some are new (like Asmodeus), and some we just don't know (like Eldath).
Alot of them, the designer's didn't think were important enough to put in the CG. So unless the CG specifically says the god is dead, or otherwise, assume its still there doing what it's always done.
Actually, did Rich recently say the opposite--that if a god isn't mentioned, you can assume they aren't a god anymore?
Actually, did Rich recently say the opposite--that if a god isn't mentioned, you can assume they aren't a god anymore?
Yes. They're either dead or lost somewhere in Abeir.
.. I don't think thats accurate... and a statement like that doesn't make a lot of sense...
Actually, it makes sense, though the reason isn't really good. Otherwise, if they're still around, why not mention them once or twice?
Actually, it makes sense, though the reason isn't really good. Otherwise, if they're still around, why not mention them once or twice?
because theres no way you could remember them ALL
F&A has a lot more information than F&P
You mean that F&P is more crunch heavy?
The 2e books were actually in a trilogy of sourcebooks- one was for greater deities and such, one for lesser deities and such, and the last for Demihuman deities.
Do you feel these would be useful for 4e DMs or do the books spend too many pages explaining gods that have disappeared (either by being subsumed into another god, dying or simply vanishing)? Having just learned about Malar I'm interested in knowing more about the other gods. Although if the books do spend a lot of time on gods I'm not going to use, I might not bother.
Thanks in advance.
Do you feel these would be useful for 4e DMs or do the books spend too many pages explaining gods that have disappeared (either by being subsumed into another god, dying or simply vanishing)?
From what I know of the books, I would say they are useful, even to people who are using the 4E Realms. I think most of the gods who are still around haven't changed that much in terms of their basic nature.
.. I don't think thats accurate... and a statement like that doesn't make a lot of sense...
-That's what the guy said. There's reasons they aren't mentioned. Reasons we aren't important enough, seemingly, to be told just yet, but there are reasons.
Do you feel these would be useful for 4e DMs or do the books spend too many pages explaining gods that have disappeared (either by being subsumed into another god, dying or simply vanishing)? Having just learned about Malar I'm interested in knowing more about the other gods. Although if the books do spend a lot of time on gods I'm not going to use, I might not bother.
-Yes.
-That's what the guy said. There's reasons they aren't mentioned. Reasons we aren't important enough, seemingly, to be told just yet, but there are reasons.
Is 'exploring Abeir' as a reason not good enough for you? :P
Is 'exploring Abeir' as a reason not good enough for you? :P
-Yes. Jesus hasn't been heard of or seen from for about two thousand years, and he still has a church dedicated to him and such. One hundred years really is a pittance of time, when contrasted against all of eternity, or whatever.
-I noticed that I did not give the names of the 2e books. They are:
Faiths & Avatars
Powers & Pantheons
Demihuman Deities
For about fifteen bucks you can get (in pdf form) all three 2e god books (F&A, Demihuman Deities, and Powers & Pantheons,) all of which are great reads and have tons of lore on the all the gods you could possibly imagine, as well as on the history and geography of Faerun more generally. A lot of people think F&A is the best realms book ever. (Me, i might go with Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves or Lost Empires of Faerun instead, but it's your call. Maybe Lands of Intrigue or the Savage North box set.)
For the same amount of money, you can pick up F&P, which has updated info (Bane is back, Xvim is reduced, Shar is a big deal, etc,) and 3E crunch. It's a fine book too. If what you want is the lore, though, I might go with the 2e stuff.
-Yes. Jesus hasn't been heard of or seen from for about two thousand years, and he still has a church dedicated to him and such. One hundred years really is a pittance of time, when contrasted against all of eternity, or whatever.
That's hardly comparable, since Jesus hadn't to cope with some plot-driven local event that suddenly somehow affected the entire multiverse. Anyway, 'tramping through Abeir' already sounds better, doesn't it? :D
That's hardly comparable, since Jesus hadn't to cope with some plot-driven local event that suddenly somehow affected the entire multiverse.
-Maybe he did. The entire "Messiah" schpiel was pre-written, pre-ordained, fated, was it not?
I think in a world where worshipping a god can give you tangible benefits, most would switch to worshipping another god when their own died (assuming they lose those benefits which is what I'm having happen in my own game, 4e rules be damned).
-I don't think so. Lay worshipers, who have nothing to lose, nothing to gain, I can see them going to and from deities fairly rapidly. Priests and priestess', though? No. How often is it here, that a priest, rabbi, imam, and whoever else (who receive no tangible benefits from his position) lose faith in their religion, and turn to a new one? Clerics have more moral clout to simply abandon their deity on Tuesday, find a new one on Thursday, get tired of that one by the weekend, and have a fresh one when the week stats on Monday.
How often is it here, that a priest, rabbi, imam, and whoever else (who receive no tangible benefits from his position) lose faith in their religion, and turn to a new one? Clerics have more moral clout to simply abandon their deity on Tuesday, find a new one on Thursday, get tired of that one by the weekend, and have a fresh one when the week stats on Monday.
But they're not getting tired of the deity. The deity is dying (and will possibly remain dead for the rest of their lives). They can do more good with the divine powers they get from a new deity then following the dead and powerless one.
Besides, if ever a priest, rabbi or imam KNEW that their deity had been killed, I think we'd find either quite a lot of suicides or a lot of converts (assuming they KNEW that other gods existed). But you could easily argue it wouldn't happen because its all hypothetical, given no-one (as far as I've heard) has ever known if their god was killed or not in real life ;)
But they're not getting tired of the deity. The deity is dying (and will possibly remain dead for the rest of their lives). They can do more good with their divine powers they get from a new deity then following the old one.
Besides, if ever a priest, rabbi or imam KNEW that their deity had been killed, I think we'd find either quite a lot of suicides or a lot of converts (assuming they KNEW that other gods existed). But you could easily argue it wouldn't happen, but I don't think very many gods have ever been KNOWN to be killed by their followers ;)
-Right, but the point was that we have evidence of priests, imams and rabbis sticking with their deities (two of the three had their deities, or part of them, die) even though they receive no tangible benefits. Apply that to the Forgotten Realms, and it stands to reason that Clerics who follow deities who no longer offer them tangible benefits (Be it because of death, hibernation, being trapped, whatever) are not going to arbitrarily "fly the coop".
-The War of the Spider Queen books also solidify and back up this notion. Lolth was gone, that was all her followers knew. For about an entire year, Lolthite society operated without Lolth. As far as any of the sources tell us, there was no mass exodus of Lolthite Clerics, who were receiving nothing for their worship of Lolth, to other religions.
That said, if you look for fiendish / celestial back-up for your clerics, The Book of Vile Darkness, The Book of Exalted Deeds, Fiendish Codex I and II are the books you should look after.