Bladesinger build question 3.5 - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Bladesinger build question 3.5

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
rhogue
Feb 23, 2010 16:00:41 I was thinking about trying to build a bladesinger drow, taking ranger as first class, any suggestions or must do s?
#2
The_Silversword
Feb 23, 2010 17:06:58 Yes Bard should definitely be in there, and Ranger or Fighter, and also Wizard.

Having some Rogue levels would be good for skills as well. It reall depends on how you see your character, are you more fighter type or more wizardy?
#3
sfdragon
Feb 23, 2010 18:30:45 ranger should do fine, you will however be taking alot of cross class skills though
#4
Diffan
Feb 25, 2010 9:41:31 I guess it also depends on what varient Bladesinger your going for? If your going for the Races of Faerun version, then a bard 2/fighter (or swashbuckler) 4 would net you the needed amout of skills, BAB, and spellcasting requirement to advance to the Bladesinger. The only problem is you need at least CHA 12 to cast 1st level spells as a Bard. It doesn't have much synergy, but it'll get you there fastest.

If your going by the Complete Warrior versions (the better version if you ask me), then I'd suggest swashbuckler 4/wizard 2. The only cross-classing you'll have to do is Perform. Also, by going this route, you'll net a better selection of spells and be a better spellcaster in general. I'd use spells that boost your attack/damage and abilities. Good spells include Enlarge Person, True Strike, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Dimension Hop, Persistant Blade, Haste, Displacement, Polymorph, etc....

Also, this Prestige Class has soooo many varients, that there is usally a better one to be found. Do some searching and see if your DM will allow you to use a "homebrew" one instead of the two I mentioned above.
#5
phelf_der_zemit
Feb 26, 2010 15:37:40 I just went thru this phase with my character building. The Bladesinger is a very good PrC but it has been said to hit below the belt with its requirements. Four feats, two of which may never be picked other than for this PrC, a wealth of generiously spread skill points, then the BAB gets there too.

Seeing as you are required to be an Elf (or Half) you are hurting for feats. This means you'll want to definently go for a few levels in Fighter. Remember, the first two levels get you bonus feats, and if your DM has you getting max HP at first level, then go with fighter there as it is likely to have the most out of the classes you'll dip into before this PrC.

Your spell casting class should always be Wizard. No arguements here, if ands or buts. Your next serious problem is the Skill Points. Getting these can really be a pain. Taking Wizard insures that INT is probably your highest score with a minimum of +3 mod, and if your smart +4. This gives you a nice little pool of Skill Points to use. I use these to CrossClass the skills you need. It is rather painful, but it is necessary. Depending on how picky your DM is Multiclassing can really kill these characters. If he isn't so bad, I would dip one level into Rogue, just for the access to needed skills. Not to mention it is good to have access to Spot, Listen, Move Silently and Hide. Alot of these abilities can be buffed with spells, but sometimes nothing beats naturel god given talent. But as I said the ability to CC the skills is there.

So we are looking at 2 levels in Fighter then either 3 into a wizard, or 2 in Wiz and 1 in Rog. At level 6 I would take a leap into Spellsword. This PrC is located in Complete Warrior (also where I get the Bladesinger PrC). This gives you the ability to ignore 10% ASF from armor 1st level and character spell progression. This gets you into light armor well before the Six levels it takes a Bladesinger to do the job. Take another level and you can take a bonus feat that is either on the fighter's bonus feat list or a metamagic one (If you've already rounded out the necessary feats for Bladesinger, I'd grab Extend Spell if you haven't already to make those Buffs extra long).

After this you should be able to go straight into Bladesinger. In truth thouh, I wouldn't be afraid to look at Eldritch Knight or even more tempting, Abjurant Champion. An even mixture can give you some decent spell casting, great buffs, armor, decent BAB, and some of the tastiest flavor available in DnD. Enjoy. Thoroughly.
#6
Diffan
Feb 26, 2010 20:53:59
A few things I did in my campaigns for making Bladesinger's more appealing is:

(Using the Races of Faerun version)

1.) Lessen the requirements on the skills. Perform (sing or dance) 3 ranks. And keep the other requirements for skills.

2.) Deleted the spelllist/spell progression of the original class and had the class levels stack with the spellcasting of the base class. The progression was 7/10, meaning at lvl 1st, 5th, and 10th level, you don't add your class level to your spellcasting and the other class levels you do.

3.) Allow them to add additional damge from their INT modifier to damage rolls (like the swashbuckler).

This really made the class shine next to other "Gish" style PrCs (Spellsword, Abjurant Champion, Eldritch Knight cheif among them) and it was actually a vaild class.

@ Phelf_Der_Zemit- If your using the Complete Warrior version of the Bladesinger, then how are you going into levels of Wizard when the PrC's requirements ask for spontaneous spellcasting? Did you homebrew it?
#7
sfdragon
Feb 26, 2010 21:31:06 there was also the Ruamthari battlemage........

#8
Diffan
Feb 28, 2010 9:24:37
there was also the Ruamthari battlemage........

True, but the problem with that PrC is that it's BAB is only average. The class abilities are pretty cool and it's spellcasting progression is decent.
#9
phelf_der_zemit
Feb 28, 2010 12:56:40
@ Phelf_Der_Zemit- If your using the Complete Warrior version of the Bladesinger, then how are you going into levels of Wizard when the PrC's requirements ask for spontaneous spellcasting? Did you homebrew it?

In my copy of Complete Warrior it has no such prerequesite. It even suggest in the opening theme parragraph for rogue/wizards to go into the class. It merely request the ability to cast 1st level arcane spells. In my oppinion you should be able to cast little more than that tho.
#10
Diffan
Mar 01, 2010 7:34:38
@ Phelf_Der_Zemit- If your using the Complete Warrior version of the Bladesinger, then how are you going into levels of Wizard when the PrC's requirements ask for spontaneous spellcasting? Did you homebrew it?

In my copy of Complete Warrior it has no such prerequesite. It even suggest in the opening theme parragraph for rogue/wizards to go into the class. It merely request the ability to cast 1st level arcane spells. In my oppinion you should be able to cast little more than that tho.

Wow, my mistake. It must have been in some other "homebrew" version I've seen that required the spellcaster to cast spells spontaneously. Sorry for the mix-up, lol.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rhogue Feb 23, 2010 16:00:41	I was thinking about trying to build a bladesinger drow, taking ranger as first class, any suggestions or must do s?
#2 The_Silversword Feb 23, 2010 17:06:58	Yes Bard should definitely be in there, and Ranger or Fighter, and also Wizard. Having some Rogue levels would be good for skills as well. It reall depends on how you see your character, are you more fighter type or more wizardy?
#3 sfdragon Feb 23, 2010 18:30:45	ranger should do fine, you will however be taking alot of cross class skills though
#4 Diffan Feb 25, 2010 9:41:31	I guess it also depends on what varient Bladesinger your going for? If your going for the Races of Faerun version, then a bard 2/fighter (or swashbuckler) 4 would net you the needed amout of skills, BAB, and spellcasting requirement to advance to the Bladesinger. The only problem is you need at least CHA 12 to cast 1st level spells as a Bard. It doesn't have much synergy, but it'll get you there fastest. If your going by the Complete Warrior versions (the better version if you ask me), then I'd suggest swashbuckler 4/wizard 2. The only cross-classing you'll have to do is Perform. Also, by going this route, you'll net a better selection of spells and be a better spellcaster in general. I'd use spells that boost your attack/damage and abilities. Good spells include Enlarge Person, True Strike, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Dimension Hop, Persistant Blade, Haste, Displacement, Polymorph, etc.... Also, this Prestige Class has soooo many varients, that there is usally a better one to be found. Do some searching and see if your DM will allow you to use a "homebrew" one instead of the two I mentioned above.
#5 phelf_der_zemit Feb 26, 2010 15:37:40	I just went thru this phase with my character building. The Bladesinger is a very good PrC but it has been said to hit below the belt with its requirements. Four feats, two of which may never be picked other than for this PrC, a wealth of generiously spread skill points, then the BAB gets there too. Seeing as you are required to be an Elf (or Half) you are hurting for feats. This means you'll want to definently go for a few levels in Fighter. Remember, the first two levels get you bonus feats, and if your DM has you getting max HP at first level, then go with fighter there as it is likely to have the most out of the classes you'll dip into before this PrC. Your spell casting class should always be Wizard. No arguements here, if ands or buts. Your next serious problem is the Skill Points. Getting these can really be a pain. Taking Wizard insures that INT is probably your highest score with a minimum of +3 mod, and if your smart +4. This gives you a nice little pool of Skill Points to use. I use these to CrossClass the skills you need. It is rather painful, but it is necessary. Depending on how picky your DM is Multiclassing can really kill these characters. If he isn't so bad, I would dip one level into Rogue, just for the access to needed skills. Not to mention it is good to have access to Spot, Listen, Move Silently and Hide. Alot of these abilities can be buffed with spells, but sometimes nothing beats naturel god given talent. But as I said the ability to CC the skills is there. So we are looking at 2 levels in Fighter then either 3 into a wizard, or 2 in Wiz and 1 in Rog. At level 6 I would take a leap into Spellsword. This PrC is located in Complete Warrior (also where I get the Bladesinger PrC). This gives you the ability to ignore 10% ASF from armor 1st level and character spell progression. This gets you into light armor well before the Six levels it takes a Bladesinger to do the job. Take another level and you can take a bonus feat that is either on the fighter's bonus feat list or a metamagic one (If you've already rounded out the necessary feats for Bladesinger, I'd grab Extend Spell if you haven't already to make those Buffs extra long). After this you should be able to go straight into Bladesinger. In truth thouh, I wouldn't be afraid to look at Eldritch Knight or even more tempting, Abjurant Champion. An even mixture can give you some decent spell casting, great buffs, armor, decent BAB, and some of the tastiest flavor available in DnD. Enjoy. Thoroughly.
#6 Diffan Feb 26, 2010 20:53:59	A few things I did in my campaigns for making Bladesinger's more appealing is: (Using the Races of Faerun version) 1.) Lessen the requirements on the skills. Perform (sing or dance) 3 ranks. And keep the other requirements for skills. 2.) Deleted the spelllist/spell progression of the original class and had the class levels stack with the spellcasting of the base class. The progression was 7/10, meaning at lvl 1st, 5th, and 10th level, you don't add your class level to your spellcasting and the other class levels you do. 3.) Allow them to add additional damge from their INT modifier to damage rolls (like the swashbuckler). This really made the class shine next to other "Gish" style PrCs (Spellsword, Abjurant Champion, Eldritch Knight cheif among them) and it was actually a vaild class. @ Phelf_Der_Zemit- If your using the Complete Warrior version of the Bladesinger, then how are you going into levels of Wizard when the PrC's requirements ask for spontaneous spellcasting? Did you homebrew it?
#7 sfdragon Feb 26, 2010 21:31:06	there was also the Ruamthari battlemage........
#8 Diffan Feb 28, 2010 9:24:37	there was also the Ruamthari battlemage........ True, but the problem with that PrC is that it's BAB is only average. The class abilities are pretty cool and it's spellcasting progression is decent.
#9 phelf_der_zemit Feb 28, 2010 12:56:40	@ Phelf_Der_Zemit- If your using the Complete Warrior version of the Bladesinger, then how are you going into levels of Wizard when the PrC's requirements ask for spontaneous spellcasting? Did you homebrew it? In my copy of Complete Warrior it has no such prerequesite. It even suggest in the opening theme parragraph for rogue/wizards to go into the class. It merely request the ability to cast 1st level arcane spells. In my oppinion you should be able to cast little more than that tho.
#10 Diffan Mar 01, 2010 7:34:38	@ Phelf_Der_Zemit- If your using the Complete Warrior version of the Bladesinger, then how are you going into levels of Wizard when the PrC's requirements ask for spontaneous spellcasting? Did you homebrew it? In my copy of Complete Warrior it has no such prerequesite. It even suggest in the opening theme parragraph for rogue/wizards to go into the class. It merely request the ability to cast 1st level arcane spells. In my oppinion you should be able to cast little more than that tho. Wow, my mistake. It must have been in some other "homebrew" version I've seen that required the spellcaster to cast spells spontaneously. Sorry for the mix-up, lol.