Second, (and this is the real question) what class does it stem from? We've got three good classes to choose from: Bard, Swordmage, and Wizard. Of the three, I like the Swordmage the best and it's what I used as my prereq for my homebrew Bladesinger paragon path.
The Wizard is iconical but you'll have to have some multiclass feats for say..fighter to make it a stong melee class as well. Or vise-versa Ftr class with Wizard multiclass feats.
The Bard isn't bad seeing as it fits the flavor of a Bladesinger and the fact that a bard can use songblades and other such stuff is pretty cool and meshes well.
In any event, I feel the Bladesinger is better served using 4e rules simply because there was never a good Bladesinger prestige class in 3x (besides LK's Elves of Faerun version).
Any character who both uses a sword and uses arcane magic can call himself a bladesinger. A Swordmage, Wizard of the Spiral Tower, Fighter MC any arcane class, whatever.
Then by going with your style of thinking, you don't even need names for Paragon Paths. Any character that can heal their allies can be a Hospitalier for example.
Also, considering that the history of Bladesinging is passed between the elven (and now eladrin) race, I'd still keep the elf, eladrin, or half-elf only prerequisite. So you could say any elven character who uses both a sword and arcane magic can call himself a bladesinger. In addition, I'd also require them to use either a rapier or longsword to give the paragon path a traditional feel.
I always saw bladesingers as a defensive based class that employed magical options combined with impressive wushu like swordplay. The swordmage comes close with its dimensional mobility, arcane blasts and defensive magic shielding. The swordmage class lacks some of the tumbling finesse most elves would naturaly bring to a fight though.
I think borrowing from the mechanics of the monk might work, which is promised to have movement based powers. I think a new tweaked (mobility based) build for the swordmage is required to actually get the bladesinger a worthy return to 4E.
requirements:
elf,half elf,drow,eladrin
must have arcane powersource
Any character who both uses a sword and uses arcane magic can call himself a bladesinger. A Swordmage, Wizard of the Spiral Tower, Fighter MC any arcane class, whatever.
I suppose on a technical level that's true but I always felt a bit of singing was necassary. Hints the name really...
No one has said that a paragon path had to be built to one Class. I'd make it accessable to any person with the ability to use skills with arcane and weapon descriptors. Vwalla.
First, I'd consider making it a Paragon Path.
Second, (and this is the real question) what class does it stem from? We've got three good classes to choose from: Bard, Swordmage, and Wizard. Of the three, I like the Swordmage the best and it's what I used as my prereq for my homebrew Bladesinger paragon path.
The Wizard is iconical but you'll have to have some multiclass feats for say..fighter to make it a stong melee class as well. Or vise-versa Ftr class with Wizard multiclass feats.
The Bard isn't bad seeing as it fits the flavor of a Bladesinger and the fact that a bard can use songblades and other such stuff is pretty cool and meshes well.
In any event, I feel the Bladesinger is better served using 4e rules simply because there was never a good Bladesinger prestige class in 3x (besides LK's Elves of Faerun version).
-Given that, as per Rich Baker, Swordmagi stem from Elven Bladesingers, I would say that the Swordmage is the best fit, thematically and rule-wise.
First I want to mkae clear that the bladesong is mostly a mental state and not and actual song. It harks from the sounds whistling blades make when gliding through the air during the fluid movements of an El'tael. So I largely disagree to making the bladesinger anything bard related.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I was curious where things needed to go.I always saw bladesingers as a defensive based class that employed magical options combined with impressive wushu like swordplay. The swordmage comes close with its dimensional mobility, arcane blasts and defensive magic shielding. The swordmage class lacks some of the tumbling finesse most elves would naturaly bring to a fight though.
I think borrowing from the mechanics of the monk might work, which is promised to have movement based powers. I think a new tweaked (mobility based) build for the swordmage is required to actually get the bladesinger a worthy return to 4E.
Why doesn't just training your swordmage in the Acrobatics skill work?
You take a move action to perform an acrobatic stunt and a standard action to attack; monk powers similarly include a movement and an attack portion. You could even refluff the teleports into tumbling as well, as is popular for other class adaptations. Multiclassing as monk you could pick up a good utility power, but since swords aren't considered monk weapons I'm not sure how useful the monk attacks would be without mechanical reworking.1) IMO, Swordmage makes an excellent thematic stand-in for the bladesinger. Just have your elf, half-elf, or eladrin swordmage call himself a bladesinger, and you're golden. You can also do this with a wizard who uses a sword or a bard.
2) Rename "Wizard of the Spiral Tower" . . . "Bladesinger."
If this isn't enough, consider:
3) Create a house-rule feat or two which is specifically *bladesinger* in flavor: i.e., "Bladesong Style": when you are wielding a heavy blade or light blade in conjunction with an encounter or daily power" . . . you derive some benefit. Like +2 on attack roll, or +2 damage, or shift 1 square, or something like that.
4) Create a paragon path called "Fabled Bladesinger" (or something like that), with the flavor of it being a character who has resurrected the old ways of the elven bladesinger. Have the entry criteria be fey (so you capture elves, eladrin, drow, and *I think* half-elves[?]) and any arcane class.
Give a version of the WoST implement benefit, though sweeten the pot for swordmages who already have that ability, such as: you can use a light or heavy blade as an implement for an arcane power (if you do, you do not gain your weapon proficiency bonus on the attack roll). Also, when wielding a light blade or heavy blade in one hand and nothing in the other, you gain a +1 to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. Thus, you get the flavor of using the sword to bat away magical attacks, and make it mechanically useful for all arcane characters without making it redundant for swordmages.
Your action point power might be a melee basic or (better), if you use an action point to attack with a power with the weapon keyword, you gain your weapon proficiency bonus on the attack.
As for powers, you'd want to have attacks based on INT or CHA (probably either/or, you get to pick which one works for your character), similar to swordmage abilities, though possibly with more of a control element, to make them more like a wizard than a fighter (balance out the defender role, or further enhance your controller role if you're a wizard who went this way). Also, make your bard really awesome. Good potential for a warlock as well, particularly eladrin warlocks.
Cheers
...(so you capture elves, eladrin, drow, and *I think* half-elves[?])
-Yes. The novel Bladesinger gives precedence of a Half-Elf being able to tap into the "flow" of the Bladesong- albeit with some difficulties along the way.
I doubt he'll probably see this, but to my first DM and Amaranth's player, thanks for getting me into the game and making it truly memorable for me. It's stuff like that that keeps me coming back...to D&D and the Realms both.
-Yes. The novel Bladesinger gives precedence of a Half-Elf being able to tap into the "flow" of the Bladesong- albeit with some difficulties along the way.
I should clarify what I was saying: there's no question in my mind but that half-elves should be able to be bladesingers. It's always been that way, as far as I remember bladesingers in D&D's history. (Long before the Bladesinger novel, which is an excellent resource for all things bladesinger.)
What I was saying was, I *think* half-elves can qualify for paragon paths/feats that require a *fey* background, by virtue of their elven heritage. I don't recall if they're classed as actual fey or not in the PHB.
My system also allows for gnomes and other fey creatures to become bladesingers . . . you might set the requirement as "eladrin or elf" (which includes half-elves, for reasons stated above).
I do not recall ever seeing a drow bladesinger . . . though I suspect that would be quite cool.
Cheers
mind you thiese novels are set in 2nd edition, before 3.x when there were no prcs but kits.
and elves were considered FEY afair in the 4e books.
I should clarify what I was saying: there's no question in my mind but that half-elves should be able to be bladesingers. It's always been that way, as far as I remember bladesingers in D&D's history. (Long before the Bladesinger novel, which is an excellent resource for all things bladesinger.)
What I was saying was, I *think* half-elves can qualify for paragon paths/feats that require a *fey* background, by virtue of their elven heritage. I don't recall if they're classed as actual fey or not in the PHB.
My system also allows for gnomes and other fey creatures to become bladesingers . . . you might set the requirement as "eladrin or elf" (which includes half-elves, for reasons stated above).
I do not recall ever seeing a drow bladesinger . . . though I suspect that would be quite cool.
Cheers
I heard ya.
Half-elves are actually not technically categorized as fey, i.e., they do not have the "Fey Origin" racial trait. Their shtick "Dual Heritage" lets them count as Elf, Human, or Half-Elf for gaining feats."Fey" as a requirement for a PP would include gnomes as you mentioned, but I think also dryads, dusk unicorns, cyclopses, formorians, and massive stormrage shamblers among other things!
there was a drow bladesinger, or as they call themselves deathsingers, in either daugfhter of the drow or tangled webs.
mind you thiese novels are set in 2nd edition, before 3.x when there were no prcs but kits.
That’s Elaine for ya . . . ahead of the game.
While I imagine deathsingers aren't *the same* as bladesingers, it shows us the equivalence of a similar concept.
@The Fey army qualifying for the PP: Well, we're *reasonably* safe in 4e, because monsters are not built using the same rules as characters (the way they were in 3.5e), so PP are for PCs only, and the last stormrage shambler I had as a PC was a very special case (j/k! not that crazy!).
But to be on the safe side, I think the requirement should be "eladrin, elf, or half-elf"--just to make sure we clear up any possible confusion that might arise with whether half-elves would qualify with their dual heritage feature. I suspect that *most* bladesingers will thus be eladrin, which lines up with how it was in previous editions (i.e., most bladesingers were sun or moon elves).
Cheers
@The Fey army qualifying for the PP: Well, we're *reasonably* safe in 4e, because monsters are not built using the same rules as characters (the way they were in 3.5e), so PP are for PCs only, and the last stormrage shambler I had as a PC was a very special case (j/k! not that crazy!).
Excellent point! :D
Re: The Fey Army & your ol' shambler character -->
As for deathsingers, would we really need or want a separate PP or is that just needless symmetry? I haven't read all these books, so I'm just asking. -- Or wait, actually I have read Daughter of the Drow and Tangled Webs and I don't remember deathsingers........ (It was a long time ago. :embarrass)
I read it a few years ago, and remembered it, it was stated in the beggining with this short human walked somewhere in skullport and he walks in his home, and finds two drow there, or did they walk in behind him, and one of them stats so He knows of his art.
and no, we dont need a separate PP for this, just separate powers for it.
but I may be wrong on something here, as I payed alot of attention to what people were saying over the years, even before I started posting here, so......
Why doesn't just training your swordmage in the Acrobatics skill work?
Training into acrobatics doesn't give acces to the martial powers I invision a bladesinger has, such as tumbling about a battlefield with ease (I beleive this is a special rogue power, nay?).
So I am advocating making a new movement based build, that has acces to some more martial powers that can enhance its mobility or accuracy with blades and spells. A reflavouring of its arcane portation powers to martial tumbling might be a good substitute, untill some more unique powers can be devised.
I any case, I dont feel the bladesinger should be limited to arcane methods and should have its fair share of martial awesomeness.
I any case, I dont feel the bladesinger should be limited to arcane methods and should have its fair share of martial awesomeness.
Well, building it as a paragon path would definitely give you room to do those sort of things. Make the utility power an arcane movement ability of some kind, and make one of his constant (11th level) abilities into an acrobatics-enhancement ability (like +5 on acrobatics checks, which is quite respectable for a paragon character). You as the player would then take feats and skills to give yourself those movement abilities that you want (training in acrobatics, skill focus, etc).
Having played three bladesingers in the past (in 2e, 3e, and 3.5e respectively), I can say that there are MANY ways to go with a bladesinger. These are the ones I did: my 2e bladesinger was mostly a fighter with spells to enhance her fighting prowess (and magic missiles for those range attacks), while my 3e bladesinger opted for a more-or-less balance of all the skills, while my 3.5e bladesinger (bard base) focused on the movement abilities and martial abilities, excluding the magic.
With its emphasis on party role, 4e as an edition is not terribly good at encouraging you to be a "generalist"--you're encouraged through limitations of ability scores and skills available to specialize and let the other members handle the stuff you don't do. The problem is, bladesinger as a concept is a generalist (it's basically the elf fighter/mage/thief who progressed oh-so-slowly compared to everyone else).
My suggestion is that the 4e bladesinger should be, basically, a swordmage with some cool movement abilities to get around the battlefield. Fey step goes a certain way, and toss in another movement utility power for the paragon path, and you're golden.
If you want "bladesinger" before paragon . . . well, I'm of the growing opinion that bladesinger makes more sense as a paragon path--something that you get into as a paragon, rather than just a hero. But if you want the feel sooner, consider an aegis of shielding swordmage MCd to rogue for some movement powers--or possibly MCd to wizard for expeditious retreat, dimension door, etc.
Cheers
I do not recall ever seeing a drow bladesinger . . . though I suspect that would be quite cool.
Cheers
My 3.5 character is a drow bladesinger, though he was trained by a moon elf. I actually have been writing some short stories about him that I'm hoping to post up somewhere soon, lol. Hopefully I can do Bladesingers justice.
However, I am sure there is a Drow variant, specifically designed for such cramped spaces.
And just because I have to make a joke (its a personality flaw), I just thought I'd mention that every single time I read the word 'Bladesinger', I picture some burly barbarian-type wading into battle singing ♪"This is my sword, this is my sword... I stick it in you, because this is my sword..."♫ :D