Books: Blackstaff Tower & Mistshore - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 karazhan Sep 02, 2008 19:40:03	I thought I would create a thread to discuss these novels in terms of what they offer in terms of lore that has so far been missing (i.e. 100 year gap). Also, discussion in terms of current and future plot hooks is welcome. Thanks
#2 Mr_Miscellany Sep 02, 2008 23:15:00	Someone have a link to the sample chapter of Blackstaff Tower (I can't find a darn thing on the WotC website, swear to God)?
#3 Therise Sep 02, 2008 23:32:35	Blackstaff Tower page, which has a link to sample chapter. Mistshore page, which has a link to a sample chapter.
#4 lord_karsus Sep 02, 2008 23:50:49	-Blackstaff Tower will be sure to expand upon plenty of preexisting Realmslore. This is why it teases me so, being primarily set in the "new" Forgotten Realms, in which I don't particularly like too much, and yet being so relevant to the "old" Forgotten Realms, that I do like. -Mistshore, I don't know, never even heard of it until now, so...
#5 karazhan Sep 03, 2008 0:36:56	Spoiler points for Blackstaff Tower..... While the story takes place in the present, each former Blackstaff is now partially tied to the tower (via a template of their spirit, intellect, and knowledge). So, each new Blackstaff can converse with a generated image of the prior owners. This lore I think helps to link 3e with 4e. All the treasures of the tower (i.e. items, spellbooks, etc.) also survived and would be a great place to study in. Tsarra Chaadren died fighting a coven of vampire-wizards. (4) other Blackstaffs came after her (including Khelben and Laerel's son) which unfortunately means they have already killed the twins not even born at the end of the other book. They also refer to Laeral in the past tense, so I assume she is also gone
#6 ikki Sep 03, 2008 2:08:40	appears this is the new magister.. a king of the hill kind of game wherein you hunt the previous one to gain all those cool powers. And end up needing them.. and more.. to stay ahead of the next wannabe blackstaff.
#7 keveras Sep 03, 2008 3:34:27	It's too bad about Tsarra. I would have liked some information about her new responsibilities and some things she experienced while in Rymanthiin. Actually in form of a novel. Pre-spellplague of course.
#8 ikki Sep 03, 2008 3:50:15	It's too bad about Tsarra. I would have liked some information about her new responsibilities and some things she experienced while in Rymanthiin. Actually in form of a novel. Pre-spellplague of course. Think rymanthiin even exists anymore? As in not being retconned out or such..
#9 keveras Sep 03, 2008 3:57:40	Think rymanthiin even exists anymore? As in not being retconned out or such.. Yes. It's mentioned in the FRCG, too. But Tsarra is gone now. What a waste of interesting characters.
#10 karazhan Sep 03, 2008 9:31:48	Just to confirm, the city still exists as the new Blackstaff plans to visit it.
#11 lord_karsus Sep 03, 2008 10:40:12	Show ...they have already killed the twins not even born at the end of the other book. They also refer to Laeral in the past tense, so I assume she is also gone
#12 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Sep 03, 2008 11:45:22	Spoiler points for Blackstaff Tower..... Show Tsarra Chaadren died fighting a coven of vampire-wizards. (4) other Blackstaffs came after her (including Khelben and Laerel's son) which unfortunately means they have already killed the twins not even born at the end of the other book.
#13 uzzy Sep 03, 2008 12:15:24	Show Tsarra Chaadren died fighting a coven of vampire-wizards. (4) other Blackstaffs came after her (including Khelben and Laerel's son) which unfortunately means they have already killed the twins not even born at the end of the other book. They also refer to Laeral in the past tense, so I assume she is also gone
#14 ikki Sep 05, 2008 11:55:39	I think a 'sigh' is just about the only thing we can say. See.. elminsters strategy of a zillion abandoned kids has worked out better. But then, khelben jr is still out there, greyhawk, busy making his picture book on spelljamming vessels :P Unless he has managed to die of old age too.. Or perhaps mordenkainen is keeping him alive as a pretender ready to assume the inheritance with some foreign aid... in return for considerations :P
#15 lord_karsus Sep 05, 2008 21:17:34	See.. elminsters strategy of a zillion abandoned kids has worked out better. -Being, for the most part, ambiguous and anonymous, we don't care about them much, so...;)
#16 karazhan Sep 06, 2008 0:17:39	For those that have read the books, did you get a 4e flavor of the magic used? Personally, I got the 3.5 flavor still as: 1) the wizards were casting the same spell multiple times (a big no no in 4e as you can't) 2) they were using spells that are supposed to be rituals but were regular spells as in the past 3) teleportation worked just like 3.5 and not like 4e Thoughts?
#17 gabeth Sep 06, 2008 0:54:14	For those that have read the books, did you get a 4e flavor of the magic used? Personally, I got the 3.5 flavor still as: 1) the wizards were casting the same spell multiple times (a big no no in 4e as you can't) 2) they were using spells that are supposed to be rituals but were regular spells as in the past 3) teleportation worked just like 3.5 and not like 4e Thoughts? Even the magic in the 3e novels didn't work like it does in the game. Poetic license and all that. I liked the fact that Waterdeep fell so far, in terms of morality. The Open Lord is a corrupt egomaniac, the Hidden Lords don't really do jack, and half the City Watch is corrupt. For those who love a good Waterdeep campaign, the book offers quite the inspiration to help the new heroes wipe the dirt off the Crown of the North. It almost makes me want to actually play D&D. Almost. Now I'm off to go read Mistshore.
#18 strife026 Sep 06, 2008 2:51:22	im just happy the Moonstars are revived!!
#19 karazhan Sep 06, 2008 10:44:55	Actually, Novel material is supposed to be canon. There is supposed to be internal consistency between products.
#20 lord_karsus Sep 06, 2008 11:22:39	-It is likely that Mr. Schend was finished writing the novel before 4e was released to the public (remember, he isn't a WotC designer or employee or anything). I mean, if the book was released in September, you figure that he had to have had it in at a deadline at least a month or so before the publish date (and, that's probably a very slim window, there), so we're in July/August now, and the 4e books came out in June, so...
#21 gabeth Sep 06, 2008 12:36:04	Actually, Novel material is supposed to be canon. There is supposed to be internal consistency between products. People can say anything they want. The licensing team at Wizards can say, "our authors study the rules when writing their novels" when we know that just isn't so. The spellfire in EG's novels isn't the spellfire in Magic in Faerûn. Bob Salvatore has said the story is more important than a character's Climb or Jump skill. I think in this case, it should be noted that despite Wizards' wishes, FR remains a story -not rules- driven campaign. On the other hand, Lucas Licensing has folks read every book that comes across their desks and go to George Lucas for approval. That way, fans are allowed to blame the big man himself for the terrible past few years in SWEU. It's a difference, because LucasFilm has a more centralized and focused interest in a single "campaign", while Wizards might not necessarily make a consistent, focused effort for everything to remain cohesive in only one of several properties.
#22 karazhan Sep 06, 2008 13:28:44	@LK, I certainly do not blame any authors for an inconsistency between their work and that of a specific setting. I think Blackstaff Tower and Mistshore were both well-written in terms of plot and character development. I would instead hold the company itself responsible. If (as we have been told) novels are supposed to be canon, and if (as we again have been told) only 2 setting books will be released, then the novels need to follow the rules/trends set in the core rules guides in order to maintain the flavor and consistency of the books. If they do not, then it invalidates the entire purpose of the core changes if they are ignored in the novels. In terms of timeline, they should just be sure the core books are completed before the novels are written or at least provide the novelists with a list of pertinent information before they begin.
#23 lord_karsus Sep 06, 2008 14:36:22	@LK, I certainly do not blame any authors for an inconsistency between their work and that of a specific setting. I think Blackstaff Tower and Mistshore were both well-written in terms of plot and character development. I would instead hold the company itself responsible. If (as we have been told) novels are supposed to be canon, and if (as we again have been told) only 2 setting books will be released, then the novels need to follow the rules/trends set in the core rules guides in order to maintain the flavor and consistency of the books. If they do not, then it invalidates the entire purpose of the core changes if they are ignored in the novels. In terms of timeline, they should just be sure the core books are completed before the novels are written or at least provide the novelists with a list of pertinent information before they begin. -I agree with you 100%, believe me. I'm just putting out there the likely reason for this.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

karazhan

Sep 02, 2008 19:40:03

I thought I would create a thread to discuss these novels in terms of what they offer in terms of lore that has so far been missing (i.e. 100 year gap). Also, discussion in terms of current and future plot hooks is welcome.

Thanks

Mr_Miscellany

Sep 02, 2008 23:15:00

Someone have a link to the sample chapter of Blackstaff Tower (I can't find a darn thing on the WotC website, swear to God)?

Therise

Sep 02, 2008 23:32:35

Blackstaff Tower page, which has a link to sample chapter.

Mistshore page, which has a link to a sample chapter.

lord_karsus

Sep 02, 2008 23:50:49

-Blackstaff Tower will be sure to expand upon plenty of preexisting Realmslore. This is why it teases me so, being primarily set in the "new" Forgotten Realms, in which I don't particularly like too much, and yet being so relevant to the "old" Forgotten Realms, that I do like.

-Mistshore, I don't know, never even heard of it until now, so...

karazhan

Sep 03, 2008 0:36:56

Spoiler points for Blackstaff Tower.....

While the story takes place in the present, each former Blackstaff is now partially tied to the tower (via a template of their spirit, intellect, and knowledge). So, each new Blackstaff can converse with a generated image of the prior owners. This lore I think helps to link 3e with 4e. All the treasures of the tower (i.e. items, spellbooks, etc.) also survived and would be a great place to study in.

Tsarra Chaadren died fighting a coven of vampire-wizards. (4) other Blackstaffs came after her (including Khelben and Laerel's son) which unfortunately means they have already killed the twins not even born at the end of the other book. They also refer to Laeral in the past tense, so I assume she is also gone

ikki

Sep 03, 2008 2:08:40

appears this is the new magister.. a king of the hill kind of game wherein you hunt the previous one to gain all those cool powers. And end up needing them.. and more.. to stay ahead of the next wannabe blackstaff.

keveras

Sep 03, 2008 3:34:27

It's too bad about Tsarra. I would have liked some information about her new responsibilities and some things she experienced while in Rymanthiin. Actually in form of a novel. Pre-spellplague of course.

ikki

Sep 03, 2008 3:50:15

It's too bad about Tsarra. I would have liked some information about her new responsibilities and some things she experienced while in Rymanthiin. Actually in form of a novel. Pre-spellplague of course.

Think rymanthiin even exists anymore?
As in not being retconned out or such..

keveras

Sep 03, 2008 3:57:40

Think rymanthiin even exists anymore?
As in not being retconned out or such..

Yes. It's mentioned in the FRCG, too. But Tsarra is gone now. What a waste of interesting characters.

#10

karazhan

Sep 03, 2008 9:31:48

Just to confirm, the city still exists as the new Blackstaff plans to visit it.

#11

lord_karsus

Sep 03, 2008 10:40:12

Show
...they have already killed the twins not even born at the end of the other book. They also refer to Laeral in the past tense, so I assume she is also gone

#12

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Sep 03, 2008 11:45:22

Spoiler points for Blackstaff Tower.....

Show
Tsarra Chaadren died fighting a coven of vampire-wizards. (4) other Blackstaffs came after her (including Khelben and Laerel's son) which unfortunately means they have already killed the twins not even born at the end of the other book.

#13

uzzy

Sep 03, 2008 12:15:24

Show

Tsarra Chaadren died fighting a coven of vampire-wizards. (4) other Blackstaffs came after her (including Khelben and Laerel's son) which unfortunately means they have already killed the twins not even born at the end of the other book. They also refer to Laeral in the past tense, so I assume she is also gone

#14

ikki

Sep 05, 2008 11:55:39

I think a 'sigh' is just about the only thing we can say.

See.. elminsters strategy of a zillion abandoned kids has worked out better.
But then, khelben jr is still out there, greyhawk, busy making his picture book on spelljamming vessels :P
Unless he has managed to die of old age too..

Or perhaps mordenkainen is keeping him alive as a pretender ready to assume the inheritance with some foreign aid... in return for considerations :P

#15

lord_karsus

Sep 05, 2008 21:17:34

See.. elminsters strategy of a zillion abandoned kids has worked out better.

-Being, for the most part, ambiguous and anonymous, we don't care about them much, so...;)

#16

karazhan

Sep 06, 2008 0:17:39

For those that have read the books, did you get a 4e flavor of the magic used? Personally, I got the 3.5 flavor still as:

1) the wizards were casting the same spell multiple times (a big no no in 4e as you can't)

2) they were using spells that are supposed to be rituals but were regular spells as in the past

3) teleportation worked just like 3.5 and not like 4e

Thoughts?

#17

gabeth

Sep 06, 2008 0:54:14

For those that have read the books, did you get a 4e flavor of the magic used? Personally, I got the 3.5 flavor still as:

1) the wizards were casting the same spell multiple times (a big no no in 4e as you can't)

2) they were using spells that are supposed to be rituals but were regular spells as in the past

3) teleportation worked just like 3.5 and not like 4e

Thoughts?

Even the magic in the 3e novels didn't work like it does in the game. Poetic license and all that.

I liked the fact that Waterdeep fell so far, in terms of morality. The Open Lord is a corrupt egomaniac, the Hidden Lords don't really do jack, and half the City Watch is corrupt. For those who love a good Waterdeep campaign, the book offers quite the inspiration to help the new heroes wipe the dirt off the Crown of the North. It almost makes me want to actually play D&D. Almost.

Now I'm off to go read Mistshore.

#18

strife026

Sep 06, 2008 2:51:22

im just happy the Moonstars are revived!!

#19

karazhan

Sep 06, 2008 10:44:55

Actually,

Novel material is supposed to be canon. There is supposed to be internal consistency between products.

#20

lord_karsus

Sep 06, 2008 11:22:39

-It is likely that Mr. Schend was finished writing the novel before 4e was released to the public (remember, he isn't a WotC designer or employee or anything). I mean, if the book was released in September, you figure that he had to have had it in at a deadline at least a month or so before the publish date (and, that's probably a very slim window, there), so we're in July/August now, and the 4e books came out in June, so...

#21

gabeth

Sep 06, 2008 12:36:04

Actually,

Novel material is supposed to be canon. There is supposed to be internal consistency between products.

People can say anything they want. The licensing team at Wizards can say, "our authors study the rules when writing their novels" when we know that just isn't so. The spellfire in EG's novels isn't the spellfire in Magic in Faerûn. Bob Salvatore has said the story is more important than a character's Climb or Jump skill.

I think in this case, it should be noted that despite Wizards' wishes, FR remains a story -not rules- driven campaign.

On the other hand, Lucas Licensing has folks read every book that comes across their desks and go to George Lucas for approval. That way, fans are allowed to blame the big man himself for the terrible past few years in SWEU. It's a difference, because LucasFilm has a more centralized and focused interest in a single "campaign", while Wizards might not necessarily make a consistent, focused effort for everything to remain cohesive in only one of several properties.

#22

karazhan

Sep 06, 2008 13:28:44

@LK,

I certainly do not blame any authors for an inconsistency between their work and that of a specific setting. I think Blackstaff Tower and Mistshore were both well-written in terms of plot and character development. I would instead hold the company itself responsible. If (as we have been told) novels are supposed to be canon, and if (as we again have been told) only 2 setting books will be released, then the novels need to follow the rules/trends set in the core rules guides in order to maintain the flavor and consistency of the books. If they do not, then it invalidates the entire purpose of the core changes if they are ignored in the novels.

In terms of timeline, they should just be sure the core books are completed before the novels are written or at least provide the novelists with a list of pertinent information before they begin.

#23

lord_karsus

Sep 06, 2008 14:36:22

@LK,

I certainly do not blame any authors for an inconsistency between their work and that of a specific setting. I think Blackstaff Tower and Mistshore were both well-written in terms of plot and character development. I would instead hold the company itself responsible. If (as we have been told) novels are supposed to be canon, and if (as we again have been told) only 2 setting books will be released, then the novels need to follow the rules/trends set in the core rules guides in order to maintain the flavor and consistency of the books. If they do not, then it invalidates the entire purpose of the core changes if they are ignored in the novels.

In terms of timeline, they should just be sure the core books are completed before the novels are written or at least provide the novelists with a list of pertinent information before they begin.

-I agree with you 100%, believe me. I'm just putting out there the likely reason for this.