The 4th Edition Neverwinter Campaign Guide presents powerful NPCs at a portion of their full power, to give Heroic level characters a chance to barely win a fight against the NPC, but not to defeat the NPC outright. The idea here is to open up the full breadth of the Realms to players, regardless of level, and to have the NPC notice the PCs and mark them as a potential threat; one to be manipulated or destroyed at a later date (when the PCs are higher level and can finish the fight).
In the 1st Edition D&D adventure Lashan’s Fall, the main bad guy is a Lich at full power, who lurks in the ruins of the school of wizardy in Myth Drannor, is quite mad and thinks the low level PCs are all his apprentices/students. If the PCs play along and treat the mad lich politely, he’ll at worst pat them on the shoulder affectionately (causing cold damage, but the Lich won’t see it that way). If the PCs attack or are exceedingly rude to the Lich, he’ll fly into a mad rage and bring his full power to bear on the characters, likely resulting in their demise.
Here we have two extremes: one allows for impolitic PCs to bring doom on their heads, the other gives the players a taste of what’s to come at higher levels of play.
As a Realms DM, do you prefer either of these methods for your campaign? Or do you do something different?
Me? I prefer letting the players rub shoulders with as many high level bad guys (and monsters; who says that noblewoman from Sembia isn’t really a shapechanged Dragon out on a lark?) as possible in my campaign. However, if there’s a chance the PCs could roleplay themselves to their dooms, I make sure to let them know full well and ahead of time what they’re facing.
As a Realms DM, do you prefer either of these methods for your campaign? Or do you do something different?
I've only been DM'ing in the Realms for a short while (a couple of months now) so I am not sure if my response will be any use whatsoever.
I have to say that how I handle it depends on which group I am playing with and the makeup of those groups, one member of one of my groups is currently playing an outspoken (and not particularly charismatic or intelligent) Avenger. As such, even if I warn him ahead of time that this is someone to step carefully around I may well have to deal with the repercussions of a badly chosen/timed comment. I am not one for giving the PCs a free ride with respect to their actions, and so shade things a bit more towards the dealing with lieutenants, or the "partial win" scenarios when dealing with that group.
My usual inclination, however, is to play the NPCs at their original power levels and just make blooming sure that the party knows who it is they are dealing with, and how dead they can expect to be if they get things horribly wrong.
My wife, gods bless her little head, tend to come up with plans that take a problem, turn its on its head, and then screw with the bad guys heads in really messed up ways. It makes me glad I'm not a dictator of a small nation called Stiggeragua or some such, I'd be too afraid of what she'd do with real power behind her. She, and by now the rest of the group, tends to think along the lines that you don't have to actually kill or even directly confront an enemy to defeat them, and greatly prefer engaging in psyop sort of encounters over actual combat. It does add a level of complication to my planning, but I guess I'm used to it by now... hells, its pretty rare that they aren't taking the initiative and actively planning their own encounters against whatever foe they happen to be facing, rather than just reacting to whatever I toss their way between their plans.
It really is fun because layers can actually develop a hate for NPCs. Sure they know Manshoon is bad, but they'll only hate him after he used them a few time.
This comment stuck in my mind because I've found during Realmsplay that it feels good to me as a DM to get my players to really hate an NPC, especially a powerful one.
If one or more of my players have a preconceived notion of who a powerful NPC is (from the novels, mostly), I feel like I've accomplished something if I can reshape the player's idea of who that NPC is around what the NPC does during play.
This way it's what happens at our own gaming table that rules the mind and the imagination of the player, and not what happens in some novel.
Khelben Arunsun, I'm looking at you.
@Stigger: I like the sound of your campaign. In my opinion, players who take the initiative make life easier for the DM.
Speaking of wonderful wives (or fiancés): my fiancé, new-to-the-game player that she is, picked Command Undead (3rd Edition D&D) when her character hit 4th level as a Wizard, figuring she could try to control the mind of the lich Azimer if the party ran into him.
The party consists of two long-time players, my fiancé and another new-to-the-game player. The experienced players wore grim, "Oh you poor noob" looks on their faces when they heard her spell selection, but she didn't let that disuade her.
Night before last, the party encounters the lich and managed to enrage it. My future wife casts her spell, the lich rolls a 1 on its Will saving throw (total still less than the DC to save) and she proceeds to convince the Lich to help the party.
The experienced players were stunned at the table. I love it when that happens.
As an aside: Has your wife (or your group) ever tried something like Brett (from D20Monkey) might do?
Hire an NPC to do it for you
Well armed Beholder catapult of doom
Haha! Love that commic.
Speaking of wonderful wives (or fiancés): my fiancé, new-to-the-game player that she is, picked Command Undead (3rd Edition D&D) when her character hit 4th level as a Wizard, figuring she could try to control the mind of the lich Azimer if the party ran into him.
The party consists of two long-time players, my fiancé and another new-to-the-game player. The experienced players wore grim, "Oh you poor noob" looks on their faces when they heard her spell selection, but she didn't let that disuade her.
Night before last, the party encounters the lich and managed to enrage it. My future wife casts her spell, the lich rolls a 1 on its Will saving throw (total still less than the DC to save) and she proceeds to convince the Lich to help the party.
Liches are immune to mind-affecting attacks/spells. At least, they're supposed to be.
If she's 4th level, you just gave her control of an incredibly powerful monster for 4 days. That's extremely overpowered and game-breaking.
Just saying.
Liches are immune to mind-affecting attacks/spells. At least, they're supposed to be.
That's what's so crazy about Command Undead. It lacks the (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting] spell descriptor.
Believe me, I checked.
Though I haven't asked them, I'm pretty sure the two experienced players assumed being undead meant no mind-control at all.
(edit: we're playing 3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons)
If she's 4th level, you just gave her control of an incredibly powerful monster for 4 days. That's extremely overpowered and game-breaking.
Again, that's the beauty of the spell. All the (intelligent) undead will do is treat you as a close friend, provided nobody attacks it or you don't ask it to do something self-destructive.
Anything you might ask the undead to do that it wouldn't normally do requires an opposed Charisma check.
Because of this, my fiance's first attempt to get the lich to hand over a magic item the party needed, failed. She did accept the Lich's offer to accompany her and oversee her use of the magic item, to the party's consternation.
The High-Priest of Helm was none-too-pleased, but that's where the fun roleplaying comes in.
That said, I'm sure you could break the game with a careful application of this spell.
However, if I'm doing my job as the DM, you'd be so into the game that however tempting it might be to go hog wild with your new lich buddy, you wouldn't do it.If word (in the game world) ever gets out that the party wizard is capable of mind-controlling liches—and given how, in the Realms at least, with every retelling a story gets grander and bigger—every wizard, sorcerer and power-hungry individual with interests in Cormyr is going to make a play to steal the wizard's magic, attempt to control her and/or slay her outright.
Teh awesome!
It would seem that brushing up against the big guys has its benefits.
I had to make a pc of Kimmuriel and then I took those stats to try and guess what level he would be. Then I took a look at Drizzt and Jarlaxle and compared there abilities to the pc I created. Went into the Adventure Tools and hammered out Kimmuriel as an NPC. Who is quiet powerful, I would think.
I created an encounter with custom Bregan D'aerth Blade Warriors (included the Drow Poison). Figured the EL which was around 24 maybe alittle more. Top end for players at 19th Level. I prepared for conflict knowing the Drow Player would be spared the rest could die as far as the Guild cared. I left it up to them and jumped at the chance for these players to try out the combative moves of Bregan D'aerth. Kimmuriel could have escape if pressed of course, but I also left that open ended to how the player might attack and let the players make their own choice. If the players were defeated not KIA possible with the poison. They would have awakened with vague memories of Drow warriors, while laying on the floor of a stripped out mansion with a dead Noble Shadovar Spy and his Shadar kai guards lying around the main hall. Not something Waterdeep would easily ignore. Bregan D'aerth were waiting and watching for a chance to get to this Shadovar for reasons of their own.(I'm not sure it just felt right and these guys will need supplies if they travel into the Planes which has something to do with their Artifact and a Player's personal goal)
It became an important event for their future quest as Kimmuriel wanted to examine an artifact they are carrying. He informed them of things they had not done or began to understand and maybe to make sure if they die he could be in contact with the item which contains and extradimensional space and make gains for the Guild whether the players win or lose.
When asked about Jarlaxle, he did not answer, and then informed them, other than the contract, the conversation never happened and that he was never seen or their contract would broken.
As to my group trying crap like that... depends on if you count trying to convince nobles that it would be a good idea to exile traitors via catapult off of a cliff or not. Other than that, they prefer to do the dirty work themselves, as they know I'll do a subpar job of it if they try to convince NPCs to do things for them that are 'pivotal', and get screwed in the end by yours truly.
