www.wizards.com/dnd/product.aspx?x=dnd/p...
Very interesting.
All that complaining 3 years ago was for nothing!
Praise the Art!;)
HAIL MYSTRA!!!!!!!!
]PRAISE THE ART!!!!!!!
www.wizards.com/dnd/product.aspx?x=dnd/p...
Very interesting.
All that complaining 3 years ago was for nothing!
Praise the Art!;)
Where's me LIKE button?? ;)
Well. We have the answer now.
Personally, I would have preferred an entirely new incarnation of Mystra - ideally one that was unstable and obviously insane. Something to change things up a little.
Part of me can't help but feel that WotC specifically told Ed Greenwood to write a novel in which Mystra returns. Perhaps, as an olive branch to those who were driven away by the 4E changes. This may have been the reason that Mystra 3.0 was brought back rather than a new incarnation or a previous incarnation.
If that gut feeling is the case (and to be clear - that's all it is); I don't think it's going to work. People who were turned off by 4E were turned away for far more reasons than just the death of Mystra. One of the big ones - perhaps even bigger than the death of Mystra - was the huge time jump.
That being said... I can't help but feel things involving Mystra and Elminster have fallen into self-parody. Is the title "Elminster Must DIE!" and "Bury Elminster Deep" subtle swipes at people who constantly clamor for his death? Or is it tongue-in-cheek commentary by Ed who (I'd hope) is sick of writing about these characters?
I mean... come on. Elminster has been "killed" (first book), and is now some type of magical ash. He was turned to ash and he's still alive! How can this not be self-parody?
My bet is that when 5E comes out (and WotC has already stated in the past that it will), that Mystra will die again, and then make another come back. It'll become a sort of running gag in the Realms canon with each edition change. She's the Kenny of the Realms.
This has to be self-parody. At some point, it's the only explination left.
The way Mirt showed up in Elminster must Die shows how Mystra will be back.
Trapped in that staff.
Everything I have been saying for over 2 years.
Question is what will Cyric do when she gets free, and she is stuck with him in his prison.
THO is saying there is more to it than what we are reading.
I think Cyric is using Mystra's essence to trick the hero's into freeing him...
SFdragon: WHo cares about HElm.;)
If that gut feeling is the case (and to be clear - that's all it is); I don't think it's going to work. People who were turned off by 4E were turned away for far more reasons than just the death of Mystra. One of the big ones - perhaps even bigger than the death of Mystra - was the huge time jump.
I would hasten to agree with you on this one. The change that pushed me away from the 4E Realms (I have been playing homebrew 4E since a few months after it was released) was the jump, too many favoured characters died, too many stories came to a screeching halt. I am not sure that this move to resurrect Mystra 3.0 would do anything more than draw into sharp relief all of those other tales which have not seen a conclusion.
That said, self-parody is certainly a possibility, one thing I have always loved about Ed'swriting is his capacity for wry, whimsical humour.
Forum traffic is next to zero. Where did all the people go who "loved" 4E Realms for all these drastic changes, the ones who clamored for the deaths of Mystra, her Chosen, and the other gods? Was your gamble worth it?
Well, designers, you chose to cater to those people and you destroyed the Realms. Bringing Mystra back after you swore up and down you wouldn't just smacks of hypocrisy. This "olive branch" is flimsy and worthless given the massive damage you wrought.
If it's not parody, then it's unintentional parody. And I'm not sure which is worse.
Ok first off, I think its a little too early to say Mystra's back, I mean shes a freakin bear!! I dont think that really counts, ya know? And Ed did say over on Candlekeep that it is misleading, so who knows really? It could be Cyric as Delta pointed out, or maybe even Leria, who knows?
And another thing, Mystra's not really back, cause she didnt really go anywhere, its long been established that Mystra put alot of herself into her Chosen and various other artifacts and what not, so theres moren likely little bits of Mystra all over the place, the "bear" is just one of those bits, thats the way I see it any way, who knows? And anyway its not like Mystra would be the first god/goddess to come back to life, I mean Bane was "killed" not once but twice during the Time of Troubles, might of even been a third time too that im forgetting, and yet hes back, stronger than ever.
I do find it a little odd that Ed went with the Midnight Mystra, instead of just the divine essence of the 1st Mystra or even Mystryl, I dunno, Im sure Ed has his reasons, its got me intruiged, I'll give it that, I for one am looking foward to reading the rest of it just to see what the hells is goin on, ya know?
OK people lets chill, sit back, and take a deep breath, fell better? Well it was worth a shot.
Ok first off, I think its a little too early to say Mystra's back, I mean shes a freakin bear!! I dont think that really counts, ya know? And Ed did say over on Candlekeep that it is misleading, so who knows really? It could be Cyric as Delta pointed out, or maybe even Leria, who knows?
And another thing, Mystra's not really back, cause she didnt really go anywhere, its long been established that Mystra put alot of herself into her Chosen and various other artifacts and what not, so theres moren likely little bits of Mystra all over the place, the "bear" is just one of those bits, thats the way I see it any way, who knows? And anyway its not like Mystra would be the first god/goddess to come back to life, I mean Bane was "killed" not once but twice during the Time of Troubles, might of even been a third time too that im forgetting, and yet hes back, stronger than ever.
I do find it a little odd that Ed went with the Midnight Mystra, instead of just the divine essence of the 1st Mystra or even Mystryl, I dunno, Im sure Ed has his reasons, its got me intruiged, I'll give it that, I for one am looking foward to reading the rest of it just to see what the hells is goin on, ya know?
Well, if you're wanting to be technical about it, she's not really even a bear. She's just "riding" the bear. She's in that cave because her energy is tied to old blood spatters from Midnight, and when not riding the bear she's a pair of disembodied eyes.
I guess we're meant to believe that:
a) for 100 years she's just been riding that bear around.
b) El is the first person she's trusted to communicate with.
As you say, parts of her are likely all over the place. Some energy in this cave, other energy in the Simbul, other energy who knows where. I suspect that El's new "job" might be to gather those energy fragments all together in one place so she can have a mass effect. I also suspect that we will never actually learn what really happened to cause the whole thing, and it'll remain a "mystery" to mortals.
And I think this series is about to make a fatal mistake, in repeating one of the central problems of 2E-3E: that Mystra is really the central, most important character and they're treating her like a person (granted, a disembodied and really powerful MarySue person, but still a person rather than a god). Already she has applied a major patch to El's mind, which allows him to cast more powerful magic without fear of insanity.
And yes, starting out with a mention of Midnight isn't going to do this series any favors. Many people hated Midnight. I don't recall pre-ascended Midnight as having fought in a cave, though it's been ages since I've read the ToT series. Why should pre-ascended blood hold any special power whatsoever?
First, I have to say this. Ed Greenwood's writing has improved in an outstanding way. The prologue and first chapter were engaging and perfectly paced. The writing was fluid and engaging. There are huge improvements, and in all honesty, I'm actually interested in knowing more about the story. So, by that mark Ed has been successful in the sample chapter.
Second, I'm pretty convinced that the being Elminster encountered was NOT Mystra. Unless Ed was being purposefully misleading and attempting to sow doubt intentionally, it was profoundly obvious to me that Elminster is being misled.
I have two guesses who he really encountered in that cave... either Shar or Cyric. My gut is telling me that it is Cyric, and that Elminster is actually about to stupidly begin working toward freeing Cyric from his imprisonment.
Let's review:
1. Cyric is the god of lies and illusions. It is easily within his power to fool anyone - even Elminster.
2. Cyric was intimately familiar with Midnight and that incarnation of Mystra, and thus it made more sense for him to pretend to be her than a previous incarnation. It makes the lies he tells all the more believable.
3. Cyric, like Midnight, was a mortal once before... he may have been telling a half-truth (with much amusement on his end). "Some blood of my mortal self spilled on these trifles of Art in the time before I became Mystra..." Just swap Mystra / Midnight for Cyric. This may have been how Cyric is managing to communicate outside his prison.
4. "I am . . . preoccupied much, now." Why the pause in dialog for Mystra? My guess is by "preoccupied" Mystra AKA Cyric means "imprisoned."
5. Mystra: "...spies for all my Chosen."
Elminster (thinking to himself uncertain): "All my Chosen?
Ah, Storm and Alassra, of course. If there were more, and Mystra desired him to know of them, she would reveal them..."
Seeing as how Cyric has been imprisoned he's not fully up-to-date with the goings on of the world. In Elminster's excitement (and desperate hope) at "Mystra's" return he didn't stop to really consider things further.
6. Elminster has been ordered to: "Recruit new Chosen, and gather them here for me to confer with." Why HERE? That's the ultimate question. Of course, bringing them there - to that cave - makes sense if you can't appear anywhere else.
7. The whole chapter is filled with Elminster being excited and over eager. He even admits that he even wonders and feels as if he's probably wandering into a trap, but does so anyway - in his desperate hope to be reunited with Mystra. He even remarks to himself later toward the end of the chapter: "Mystra—if it was Mystra—had drained much energy from his borrowed body..." After / during the healing of his insanity.
8. Speaking of the way that healing went... "Mystra" didn't seem the least bit concerned that she was basically shattering Amarune's mind did she? In the process of that healing "Mystra" according to Elminster basically drained half of Amarune's life essence or some such. To quote directly: "Bare and chilled, feeling sick and empty—kiss of Mystra, half of Rune’s energy must be gone..."
9. Mystra wants "new" Chosen... why? She called the Seven Sister's a mistake. She wants the War Wizards turned into spies for her new Chosen.
The list goes on and on...
So many red flags went up and alarms sounded in my head... but, in the end, I feel very eager to know more about what is happening. I find myself excited to continue reading, and if I could have I definitely would have went to the next chapter and beyond. So all in all - very successful sample, and I am looking forward to learning the truth.
I'm hoping I'm right, because this would prove to be more interesting than doing the obvious.
I have a feeling that I -AM- right because Ed had THO at Candlekeep warn that there is more than it seems going on with that sample chapter. Ed may be worried that Mystra-lovers could become over excited about her return, only to find themselves disappointed when they learn the truth. (And how Elminster is about to be used.)
I'm excited to learn more.
But I do think this is a fragment of Mystra that is back to her "neutral" nature. She's lost a ton of power and her godhood, so she's a little desperate. The blood in this cave may be the primary focus of her consciousness, and she's separated from her bits of stored energy in her former Chosen and / or other places.
Her willingness to cause pain, and her lack of concern for Amarune, that speaks to me of a pre-Midnight and more neutral Mystra. The one who ruined several lives in order to create her seven daughters. What are the concerns of mortals compared to those of the gods?
And Silver Fire healing wasn't a totally pleasant experience in previous works, if my memory serves.
So this isn't the kind, good-oriented Mystra from post-ToT. Seems more like Mystryl or Mystra 1 to me, sans mortal avatar. And she's not a god, but a remnant. Perhaps like what was left of Myrkul in his Crown.
"Ed adds a caveat to all readers, regarding the events in that sample chapter: Please bear in mind that jumping to conclusions involves leaps into the unknown."
So, I think that is somewhat of a warning to people not to get overly excited about a potential return of Mystra.
Even if you are correct, if this personality of Mystra remains, she gets a thumbs up from me.
Having Mystra undergo a character transformation from the Scrappy, to something akin to a Woobie Destroyer of Worlds? Yes, please. The Dark Side awaits, my dear Lady of Mysteries.
Ah, but it is nice to see Manshoon get some revenge. He has lost so much to El over the years and it seems like eventually he would get in some nasty intrigues that punish his old enemies, like Cormyr. What's even better is he does this without a bunch of scrambling zhents in leather causing a flag of emergency to rise. Nobody will listen to some old crazy wizard, Elminster, whose stealing from the royal vaults. The Royal Mage who enherents Cormyr responsiblity, well he get's it too! Ha, ha! If you haven't read it, you really should, but of course I like all Ed Greenwood's stuff. I can't wait to find out how pissed the Old Wolf can get! I am glad Ed saved him...
I agree, some teeth in Manshoon is fun. He needed a kind of re-boot.
I liked that aspect also.