Thanks in advance!
-Okay, so who are the players? Where's it starting? Basic details like that.
They are 1-Elf Druid, 1- Dwarf Fighter, 1-Dragonborn Fighter, 1- Gnome Bard, 1-Elf Ranger and 1-Eldarin Swordmage.
I began them in Loudwater, they are currently at the Scepter Tower of Spellguard and will be pointed in the direction of Menzoberanzan by way of the Thunderspire adventure. They already encountered an undead cult of Asmodeus and recovered part of an evil magical weapon created by the cult's leader and they need to brave the Underdark to find the rest. Even that was too much information, hopefully they aren't reading....
Not that I was planning on playing in the 4e era, but I would have them subjugate the Gnomes of Songfarla. This would also be a useful scenario in a 1386: Aftermnath Campaign.
I got the idea because of the maps (where most of my ideas stem from) - I would imagine only the Thayan Holdings on the Plateau itself would have been destroyed, and that the few locales at 'sea level' would have survived, at least for awhile. I assume that The Wizard's Reach would become independent with the fall of Thay, and those cities would send the Wizards packing, and that Rashemen and Aglarond would move against the westeern and northern holdings... which would send all of the surviving Red Wizards to indepedndent enclaves spread throughout Faerûn, or to Thazalhar, where a few powerful individuals are trying to rebuild the kingdom.
I began them in Loudwater, they are currently at the Scepter Tower of Spellguard and will be pointed in the direction of Menzoberanzan by way of the Thunderspire adventure. They already encountered an undead cult of Asmodeus and recovered part of an evil magical weapon created by the cult's leader and they need to brave the Underdark to find the rest.
-Since you're using that adventure, which culminates in the character being allowed to ask Lady Sarahel (Sp?) a question, to which she gives a cryptic answer, tie the genesis of that magical item to the Thay, perhaps. That introduces the Red Wizards in a partially cryptic manner, all while allowing the Undead cult of Asmodeus to be the primary antagonists, right now.
-Since you're using that adventure, which culminates in the character being allowed to ask Lady Sarahel (Sp?) a question, to which she gives a cryptic answer, tie the genesis of that magical item to the Thay, perhaps. That introduces the Red Wizards in a partially cryptic manner, all while allowing the Undead cult of Asmodeus to be the primary antagonists, right now.
I was thinking along those lines, her answer was going to point them to the other half hidden in the underdark, as well as a warning they are not the only ones looking for it. As far as I can tell, the "random" attack by "bandits" I hit them with on the way to Spellguard wasn't picked up on as anything other than XP along the way, but they should soon think otherwise. I have also losely connected the vampire to the old empire of Thay by including a gold coin minted by the original Red Wizards in his possesions.
As far the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide is concerned the Red Wizards are the dominant political force in Thay, and nothing in the lore has caused that to change. The only difference is in terms of which Red Wizards currently hold the reigns of power:
* The Red Wizards who chose to oppose Szass Tam in his bid to become the regent of the realm either perished during the civil war, fled into exile, or returned to oppose him in the Year of the Dark Circle (1478 DR) and were destroyed or otherwise lost.
* The Red Wizards who had dedicated themselves to the mercantile efforts of their nation in foreign enclaves were cut off from their homeland during the civil war, and many of them decided to remain as independent mercantile enclaves rather than return home to perish in power struggle amongst the Zulkirs. These are the "Red Wizards" that most Faerunians outside of the Unapproachable East think of when the term is used.
* The Red Wizards who remained loyal to Szass Tam are still the magical overlords of Thay. The term "Red Wizard" in Thay refers to the red robed arcanists who comprise the highest social caste in that society. The Council of Zulkirs still exists, though the liches who occupy its seats are beneath Szass Tam in their power and influence, and none oppose him.
I felt it prudent to clarify as a common misconception I find on these and other forums is that the Red Wizards in 4E seemingly only exist as described in the Rose Keep article, a theory likely derived by reading that secondary source without the context of its primary source (the Campaign Guide) and letting the internet echo chamber perpetuate the misconception.
The Haunted Lands series by Richard Lee Byers
* Unclean (book 1)
* Undead (book 2)
* Unholy (book 3)
I highly recommend the series and found it very interesting and gives you a good idea of what Thay has turned into since the Spell Plague (and believe me it's not where you want to go on a vacation).
SJ
Right now you have an Uber-Lich run kingdom with tons of lackeys (just like we already had with Warlock's Crypt and Larloch... ), and we have a bunch of guys calling themselves Red Wizards operating local outlets of Thaymart.
Neither one of those is the same as it used to be... Thay has been compared to the Plateau of Leng by the guy in charge of that region (Bruce Cthordell), which means it has a much more... 'other-worldy'... vibe going on now.
In fact, Simbul, you are the only person I've encountered that believes nothing has changed.
"Red Wizards" sidebar, pg 180 4e FRCG basically says that the Red Wizards were scattered to the wind after Szass Tzam seized control, so they are nothing like they used to be, a mere afterthought in history and no longer feared as they once were. THAT is what my villian wants to restore.
I believe you may have misread that sidebar. It referred to the fall of the Red Wizards as a unified mercantile organization, and to the separation of those remaining enclaves from the nation of Thay as a whole. The sidebar does not speak of the Red Wizards of Thay ceasing to be powerful, feared, or the elite social caste within that realm—in fact, the remainder of the sections on Thay in the Campaign Guide and the Player’s Guide reinforce what I have previously stated.
Another point worth noting is that the Red Wizards who were relegated to the task of crafting and selling magic items in foreign enclaves were not especially politically influential nor magically powerful amongst their peers in the homeland. In all a given enclave had less than a few actual Red Wizards, while the remainder of the occupants were apprentices, craftsmen, soldiers, or slaves. The bulk of political and magical power amongst the Red Wizards still rested firmly in Thay. Many perished in the civil war, whilst the victors form the ranks of the Red Wizards today. In effect, the mercantile enclaves that the Red Wizards created in the 1370s served as a way to be rid of disposable apprentices--i.e. the wizards that used to be sent on doomed invasion attempts on Aglarond or Rashemen in order to ensure they would not live to one day rise against their masters.
If anything the Red Wizards are more powerful now than they ever have been. Szass Tam has finally unified the realm under a single chain of command, whereas before the realm was divided by petty factions and armies loyal to various zulkirs, tharchions, and other individuals—which served as their most persistent flaw. The Spellplague destroyed their enemies in Mulhorand. Rashemen had a civil war of its own. The Simbul no longer rules in Aglarond and is believed to be dead. By contrast the ravages of the Spellplague and a civil war have a net gain in the case of Thay. The enemies of Szass Tam who fell during the war have been transformed into undead in order to swell the ranks of his Dread Legions, and the Spellplague made the realm far more difficult to invade and enabled Szass Tam to have victory over his enemies thanks to the pact he made with Bane.
Now, as to your campaign arc, I would give the following suggestions:
A former Red Wizard of Thay seeking to restore the realm to how it had existed before would not be a very likely villain. Given that Szass Tam poses one of the greatest threats to Faerûn today, anything that can be thrown in his way would serve the forces of good (and everyone else for that matter). Unless you are playing an evil campaign, or one where the PCs are unfailingly loyal to Szass Tam, then I would suggest that this lich NPC be used a patron/ally instead of an enemy.
You would need to come up with a few details about his/her background, namely how they survived the Thayan civil war and/or why they did not join the efforts of the exiled Zulkirs and the Brotherhood of the Griffon against Szass Tam in 1478 DR. Although it would not require much imagination. If you are looking for NPCs from Thay’s past I would say perhaps Ythazz Buvaar (a demilich as of 2E) or Sabass of Bezantur (head of the Researcher faction in Dreams of the Red Wizards, likely killed or driven off by Tam before 2E. Perhaps surviving as an Archlich) would be your best bet.
Alternatively, if you wanted to focus on the merchant Red Wizards of the Inner Sea, then perhaps there could be a unique powerful individual who sought exile but—a century later—began to have second thoughts. Perhaps he/she is nearing the end of their extended lifespan and wants to strike back at Szass Tam. While I do not imagine that the majority of ‘Red Wizards’ in the trade enclaves could match the Dread Legions of Thay in battle, they could draw upon another weapon at their disposale--gold. After 100 years without Zulkir overmasters they could have amassed fortunes in trade, and not only could these funds be used to hire mercenary armies, but they would also serve as a lure for drawing adventures to their cause (i.e. your PCs).
As for an end-game epic battle, I do not think Asmodeus would make for a very good antagonist, given that he does not have a very strong connection to the history of Thay or its current machinations. Other extraplanar entities, like Eltab the demon-lord, have stronger ties to the history of Thay and were staunch enemies of Szass Tam. Other beings like Bane or Orcus might be more suitable, given that Tam has a pact with Bane and that Orcus is (allegedly) the patron of all Liches in the core D&D setting.
But generally the best epic endgame villain for the PCs to encounter in a Thay campaign would be Szass Tam himself, as it would make the most sense.
I'm sure the OP meant 'restore the Red Wizards to power' as they were before Szass Tam became a Tyrant. Right mow, the Red Wizards are NOT in power in Thay... only one is.
Right now you have an Uber-Lich run kingdom with tons of lackeys (just like we already had with Warlock's Crypt and Larloch... ), and we have a bunch of guys calling themselves Red Wizards operating local outlets of Thaymart.
Neither one of those is the same as it used to be... Thay has been compared to the Plateau of Leng by the guy in charge of that region (Bruce Cthordell), which means it has a much more... 'other-worldy'... vibe going on now.
In fact, Simbul, you are the only person I've encountered that believes nothing has changed.
The realm of Thay itself has changed dramatically. The social structure has not, and the preponderance of political power resting securely in Szass Tam's hands is nothing new. The foreshadowing of his eventual ascendancy, and the weaknesses and the likelihood of the fall of his enemies was embedded into the lore of the setting decades ago.
Szass Tam is the true ruler of Thay in 4E. That same sentiment applied to the previous two editions of the game, regardless of whether the facade of an “equal” council of zulkirs existed at the time or not. The only difference is that now his potential adversaries are removed entirely, rather than feebly standing in the wings hoping to find some way to meddle with his plans.
The 3E FRCS stated that Szass Tam was the most powerful of the Red Wizards, and was widely viewed as “the true ruler of Thay”. It went on to lay out the foundations for his eventual rise to power in 4E:
“Tiring of the continual betrayals and slaughter within the Red Wizards, he has decided that the best future for Thay and for the Red Wizards is united under him—controlled through his magic and through fear. He’s not openly exerting power yet, because he wants to preserve Thay’s strength as much as possible, and in doing so control as much as he can before any open conflicts erupt.”
By contrast the same tome devoted barely two sentences to describing each of the remaining Zulkirs—with the first sentence giving us a brief description, and the second telling us whether they supported Szass Tam, opposed Szass Tam, or professed neutrality. Its rather hard to argue that the council of zulkirs were equal peers when seven of them are defined purely on whether they support or oppose the undying and "nigh unassailable" leader their order.
As for changes to Thay as a whole, specifically in the composition of its populace, it does not somehow negate the role or the abundance of the Red Wizards among them. Thay was not like Halruaa when it came to the ratio of magical aptitude in the overall population. While wizards were the highest caste in Thay they were not overwhelmingly common. The Red Wizards as a whole consisted of less than 6,000 individuals in 3E (1,000 actual Red Wizards, and 5,000 apprentices), out of a population of 5,000,000 people. That is a ratio of 0.1%. Therefore even if 99% the population of Thay itself consisted of undead today it still does not preclude the realm from having the same ratio of arcanists...specifically since being undead and being a wizard are not mutually exclusive conditions...and since skilled wizards are generally needed in numbers to create more undead
As for Larloch, the differences here are profound. Szass Tam is an actual character, with a detailed history, deeds, plots, and GOALS. By contrast Larloch is little more than an undeveloped adventure seed whose stat block is more detailed than his biography, whose internet fanbase serves as his only pillar of sustenance or purpose in the lore, and whose only role in the setting since his introduction has been to sit around and be powerful.
Killing Szass Tam in a campaign serves a major purpose, and eliminates a long standing threat to the rest of Faerun..and to the cosmology as a whole. Killing Larloch earns your characters an obscenely unbalanced trove of treasure and magic items, and the eternal enmity of his cult on Wikipedia and the “Ask Ed Greenwood” threads, but otherwise serves no purpose... primarily since Larloch has no purpose other than "a desire to be left alone" and be awed for his awesomely powerful-powerfulessness.
Edit: note Markus, that my comments regarding Larloch are not directed towards you, but your mention of him prompts me to seek to dispel the myth of his relevance in the setting--a myth which is propounded in various other obscure venues on the internet, but rarely ever in the published lore.
Discussion?
Edit: Thanks, by the way, to everyone who posted.
But what do I know?
I'm just a poor, lost 3e fan living in a world gone mad.
From what I understand, you shouldn't bother... although a couple of folks like them, the general consensus seems to be that they were sub-par.
But what do I know?
I'm just a poor, lost 3e fan living in a world gone mad.
Referring to the novels? I usually spend a few in Borders reading the first chapter and decide from there, but thanks for the heads up.