1) Collect links to background lore about the area and how it affects the current situation.
2) Play around with ideas for campaign plots in the area and how to tie the conversions more closely into a campaign.
My idea is to collect and properly format a collection of notes on the area that's aimed towards running a campaign there rather than just a collection of canon lore.
In the Forgotten Realms setting, the town of Winterhaven ... lies on the East Way between Arabel and Highmoon. The town is located deep in the Thunder Peaks, precariously situated at the edge of Sembia's influence.
Here's my effort (1sq=10 miles):
I've made the decision that Winterhaven isn't in Cormyr, but is an independent settlement.
EDIT: Nevermind, although if you decided that Cormyr is still close to Winterhaven, why not read it?
Nevermind, although if you decided that Cormyr is still close to Winterhaven, why not read it?
Eh? What makes you think I haven't read it?
Eh? What makes you think I haven't read it?
I was just making a suggestion, that's all. Take it or leave it.
You DID ask for help.
I was just making a suggestion, that's all. Take it or leave it.
Huh, sorry, long day yesterday and I was probably being grumpy. It's just that the map fragment is from that piece!
I think the map of Thunder Gap works very well with the map for Thunderspire Labyrinth. You could easily substitute Thunder Gap for the Khel Vale, or place it inside the southern portion of Thunder Gap.
Another adaption that I am going to make is to replace Silvershield Hold with the Mistledale Dwarf town of Glen. It makes sense; there is a well-traveled underdark road underneath Glen called the Long Road that even has portals! So the Deegem company in the Seven Pillared Hall will be replaced with representatives from the Ironfurrow clan who will be selling tasty Daleland potatoes!
You could even place that "grand orc fortress" I mentioned above and place it somehwere northeast of #16 on the Labyrinth Map. Perhaps the Hobgoblin Bloodreavers operate from that fortress? Who knows?
I like your Thunder Gap map. Mind if I steal it?;)
I like your Thunder Gap map. Mind if I steal it?
Well, I did, mostly - it's a blow-up of the one from the Cormyr article in Dragon. I'm hoping to get MT to do a proper one when the 4e FRCG comes out.
It makes sense; there is a well-traveled underdark road underneath Glen called the Long Road that even has portals!
That makes eminent sense: I was just reading through Volo's Guide to the Dalelands last night.
I think the map of Thunder Gap works very well with the map for Thunderspire Labyrinth.
I'm thinking 5 across and three down, just at the end of the "p" in "Gap", which puts it a two day ride from Winterhaven, given the terrain.
I've got Winterhaven about a day into the mountains from the Highmoon side of the East Way.
As a nice coincidence, the Bloodhorn Labyrinth really sounds like a place where demon-worshiping minotaurs once lived!
Brilliant! You are right. The Bloodhorn is just too good of a fit for the Realms to pass up! Hey Colman: What do you think about this location? All you have to do is move Winterhaven a little farther east, closer to Deepingdale and presto! You have Bloodhorn Labyrinth just a few days northeast of Winterhaven! It is too good to pass up!
Thraxata, the red dragon who lairs in Bloodhorn Peak, was "only" a CR 13 young adult dragon according to Dragons of Faerun, and is still alive in 1372. I'm not sure if she perished during the Draco Rage or not. It is quite probable that in a 100 year span that she could have died from the SpellPlague, or been killed by an adventuring group. My group of 4-6 level adventures, who plan on adventuring in Bloodhorn Labyrinth, do not need to face an adult red dragon at their current level. I'm going to rule that she is dead. Besides it might be difficult to have such an enterprising, thriving community like Seven Pillars Hall with a big, bad, red dragon right on top of your lucrative business venture
If you use the Tower Tranquil as a reference point for both editions you'll note that Bloodhorn Peaks is just about 30 miles due south of Tower Tranquil. This would place Bloodhorn peak right at the red "d" in the Thunder Peaks script on the Cormyr Map. However, this places Bloodhorn Peak SOUTH of the East Way, when according to the 2nd edtion map, it should be located NORTH of the East Way!
Maybe the Spellplague moved the whole montain south or shifted Thunder Gap
north. Anything is possible with the Spellplague, right
I began making a serious effort to compile lore about the area yesterday, starting with reading through "The Dalelands", and he's 100% right about Bloodhorn Peak: it's perfect. It's even been shunned as haunted for ages, which might have something to do with all the fun things living in the labyrinth.
Here's the map from "The Dalelands":
It's just not compatible with the 4e map, nor is the lore about the area. I'm just assuming that the 4e map has a higher cut-off for what it shows as mountains and working with that. I think I'd put the Bloodhorn north of the East Way across from Sessrenglade, but we'll need to see where Sessrenglade is on the new maps.
How did you post your map of the Dalelands?
I have a CC2 Map of Deepingdale that I'd like to post. How do I post images?
Thanks.
There really are a lot of titbits of information in Volos Guide to the Dalelands.
I found the various Volo's Guides an excellent source for local color. Those and the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog were some of the best supplements to come out of 2E.
Bel
Those and the Aurora's Whole Realms Catalog were some of the best supplements to come out of 2E.
Another fan of Aurora? Unpossible! Did they sweep her under the mat in 3e?
Another fan of Aurora? Unpossible! Did they sweep her under the mat in 3e?
Are you kidding, we just adapted the pricing to 3E and kept going, my first copy disintegrated from use, so I bought two more and scanned one, then laminated the pages and put them in a loose-leaf binder. The second went into a book protector. Of course 4E will change all that, no more Nexalan cigars, hot cocoa or ketjap.
Bel
I'm not sure if this should be a separate thread, but it does relate directly to H2 Thunderspire (Bloodhorn) Mountain. The Mages of Saruun-- there was not a lot of Realms conversion for these guys included in the Realms conversion guide.
What are your thoughts about the orgins of this group? Their alignment is listed as Evil in H2, although their unwillingness to engage in open hostilities with Cormyr (as explained in the Realms conversion) might suggest their alignment should be unaligned instead. So who EXACTLY are these guys?
I was thinking about making them Red Wizards of Thay. The 3.5 version of the Wizards, and the ones not loyal to Szzam Tam in 4th edition, certainly have the enterprsing, mecantile spirit that characterizes the Mages of Saruun so well. However, I don't think Cormyr would be so likely to permit a cabal of Red Wizards to operate so closely to the borders of Cormyr.
So what do you think? Red Wizards or no?
I'm inclined to leaves the Mages of Saruun as standalone, and at worst pragmatic evil: ruthlessly self-interested rather than servants of dark powers: but that fits into my plan for a new "dale" in Thunder Gap, built by a coalition of Winterhaven, Dragons and Mages of Saruun all operating in concert, sort of.
I'm planning on making the players save the Mages of Saruun from a greater evil at some stage ... better the devil you know, and all that.
Between that and all the other stuff I and others have dug up, I think the Thunderpeaks is going to be a pretty damn busy place in 4e. ;)
I don't know if you found this on the wizards site, but this might be useful to design a wandering encounter near Bloodhorn Peak:
Redspawn Firebelchers in Faerûn
Redspawn firebelchers inhabit many of Faerûn's mountainous areas, often in volcanic caverns hidden beneath snow-covered peaks. Many large colonies of firebelchers exist in the Crags near the Neverwinter Wood and in the Smoking Mountains of Unther. The creatures can also be found in a few areas near civilization. For example, Thraxata, a young adult red dragon, resides at the top of the Blood Horn in Deepingdale and encourages redspawn firebelchers to live near her lair.
These critters appeared in the MonsterManual IV... and appear on page 88 of the 4th edition monster manual. A nice tie in with Thraxata and the history of Bloodhorn Peak, huh?
I am going to have to cook up a guide to the Thunder Peaks, aren't I?
So, how would you utilize those red drgonspawn critters? I was thinking one of them could be a pet/sevant/guardian of the duegar, since both have a natural predisposition towards fire and heat. Although one of those suckers are a level 12 montster.
There's obviously lots of space for other settlements and so on around TSM.
They'd certainly make great guards for a remote Duergar fortress or something. Even a couple of feral ones would be good for some entertainment.
At least until they start ripping people up.:P
Anyhow, having just read the Rose Keep article, making the Mages in H2 into Red Wizards makes a lot of sense and adds another layer of fun to the whole thing.
I think I'm going to add an echo of the old Red Wizards as a secret brotherhood within the new Red Wizards ...
Anyhow, having just read the Rose Keep article, making the Mages in H2 into Red Wizards makes a lot of sense and adds another layer of fun to the whole thing.
I think I'm going to add an echo of the old Red Wizards as a secret brotherhood within the new Red Wizards ...
I see you liked my original suggestion making the Mages of Saruun Red Wizards. :P I could not agree more after reading that Dragon Magazine article. I thought that article was awesome; it provides a ton of role-playing opportunities. My head was spinning trying to find a way to make the Rose Enclave part of Seven Pillars Hall. Unfortunately, being underground might discourage a star pact warlock like Vanargen.
Anyway, I was thinking about using the Rose Enclave as a model for the Enclave at Seven Pillars Hall.. I would place a tent used to sell low level magic items (levels 1-3) next to the minotaur statue on #14 on the Seven Pillared Hall map. Every ten days, the tent opens for business as Seven Pillared Hall becomes crowed with a rush of magic item seekers.... this kind of reminds me of Walmart opening its doors on Black Friday morning.:D At the end of the day, the Mages of Saruun teleport their stuff back into their tower.
What made that Dragon Magazine article so cool was that the three main Wizards had their history and motivations fleshed out completely. In the original H2, the three Mages of Saruun, Hasifir, Niame, and Samazar are not provided with anything other than a generic stat block for each of them. I am considering making individual histories and motivation for each of these three Wizards.
I guess the Red Wizards thing can work out here in Bloodhorn. The new Red Wizards aren't world conquering evil people, they simple are greedy profit seekers with little morals. So, Red Wizards = Walmart. :D
I'm thinking more boutique than Walmart: I don't see hordes of people travelling to the Bloodhorn for a market. Small numbers of shady dealers, humanoids and the like, maybe.
Or maybe this enclave is focused on selling to non-humans.
The Drow city of Sschindyrlrn is right under the King's Forest in Cormyr. Maerimydra is another Drow city under the Dalelands. So there could be a big potential market of underdark buyers near the Bloodhorn. You could add a few drow mechants in the Seven Pillared Hall to make this connection more concrete.
So why are these mages opening an enclave underground anyway? Perhaps the original Mages of Saruun (or their parents) REALLY angered Szass Tam. Maybe they are the decendants of the other Zulkirs who opposed Tam's coup; consequently, they desired to remain hidden as much as possible, fearing possible retribution from Szass's necromantic proxies.
18DELTA ;)
[HTML]So a trading interface between surface and underdark? Where are you getting that map from?[/HTML]
The map I was referring to was located on page 124 of Underdark
It is a 3.5 edition Realms hardcover that was published in 2003.
Who knows what happened to these cities after the Spellplague, though. Maybe they are flooded with water from the Sea of Fallen Stars.
I thought ripping people up was entertainment?
Not if you're the victim.;)
I had problems seeing why Ninaran would be such a die hard Shar cultist. I suppose it is possible, but I think it would be more probable if an evil elf would be a member of the Eldath Velunthura, considering the Hullack Forest is so close to Thunder Gap.
So, Ninaran is not a true believer. The Eldath Velunthura know about Kararel's desire to bring back that big bad Shadow dragon, Shadraxil, back in to the Realms. Ninaran was sent as a special agent to assit the Cult of Shar to complete their quest. The elves believe that a returned Shadow drgaon who seeks revenge on Cormyr would certainly advance their cause to weaken one of the most powerful human nation in the Realms, and especially soldify their control of the Hullack.
So the elves don't care about Shar's teachings. But the enemy of my enemy is my friend.....................
What made that Dragon Magazine article so cool was that the three main Wizards had their history and motivations fleshed out completely. In the original H2, the three Mages of Saruun, Hasifir, Niame, and Samazar are not provided with anything other than a generic stat block for each of them. I am considering making individual histories and motivation for each of these three Wizards.
Good stuff. And as I've already noted elsewhere, I think just plopping down the Rose Keep operation en masse works as well because Tharna Shavres is specifically mentioned in the article as having a black sheep son who was interested in things dark and dangerous named Kalarel(!).
Still working on the background history of the Mages of Saruun ................
H3 is coming out now
-I got it yesterday with my 4E FRCG.
18DELTA :D
You mean the Red Wizards of Saruun, an enclave named for its founder, a member of an extremely traditional faction - bald and tattooed - who set-up the enclave as a retreat and to exploit trade between the Underdark and other Red Wizard enclaves?
I'm sorry.... I stand corrected.;)
Hledh is under Cormanthyr and that she's interested in building a surface empire.
Wouldn't reawakening a volcano, say, maybe, the Bloodhorn sound just like the sort of thing she might do? It would give her a great bridgehead to expand from ...
I have the H3 adventure, but I can't see my group of Purple dragons loyal to Cormyr investigating the prison of an imprisoned, evil mage, especially in light of all the potential role playing opportunities in Bloodhorn Region. Heck, I might have the Red Dragon Tharaxxus return to claim her lair.......
My decision to not use H3 is further reinforced because I have not seen a H3 Realms conversion, yet, nor have I seen any previews for such a supplement.
So, any thoughts? Suggestions? Has anyone used H3 in the Thunder Peak area yet? If I was going to use it, I was going to place it in the Hullack Forest.
Thanks.:D
Have to say all of your guys' work is killer. You've given me ample information to run H2 in the Realms. Thank you all very much!
Here is another thought about H2:
I am considering removing Paldemar's norker thugs and replacing them with Zhent agents. Heck, I'll just take a few stats form some Zhent soldiers right out of the Realms Campagin guide. A connection with the Zhents and Paldemar makes way more sense than the norkers.
Paldemar wishes revenge on Cormyr, right. So do the Zhents, especially now that the Zhents have a heavy influence in Westgate, which has opposed Cormyr's agression in the Dragon Coast and is home to the Bleth noble family and the Fire Knives. Plus, considering that Paldemar is a worshipper of Cyric is too good of a link to overlook.
Comments? Suggestions?