Okay, I understand that Lolth only has priestess' but what about paladins and now invokers?
Personaly I can not recal any female or male drow paladins and invoker is still too new for published accounts.
Anyone care to share any ideas on the matter?
Hmmm I dont know it seems kinda iffy to me. The females are the ones in power, and priests of Lolth are always female, but Avengers and Paladins are more fighterey types, so maybe they would allow males to take these positions and send them out to battle their enemies in the name of Lolth. Im sure they would keep a close eye on them though, and make sure they did not gain too much power, probably regularly sent out on suicide missions. If they managed to survive Im sure that eventually they would be sacrificed to Lolth after they reach a certain level.
My take on this is a definite "nope, never" as drow society (and Lolth herself) believe males to be inferior in all respects. Males gain respect from other males, and positions of service within Houses based on their skills - wizard, fighter, assassin, and the like. But never any real position of power or prestige in drow society above a female.
As is mine. Also, it should be noted that though avengers and paladins are more martial in nature than clerics (for the most part), it's been mentioned before that drow females are physically stronger than drow males (also whose favored class from last edition, if you remember, was Wizard, a not-so physically intimidating class). Female drow get all the limelight in Lolth's clergy; males get basically nothing.
Divine Snackfood is probably the best they're gonna manage... if they're lucky. Though truly exceptional ones might rise as high as unwitting lackey.
Drow males could be clerics of Lloth up to the 6th level in AD&D. None of that was kept in 3e, although remained in fluff (Rai'gy, anyone?).
As for blackguards, paladins, whatever - I think they could become ones, but not too powerful either.
Alright, many voices to the same answer, no divine class for the males. But what about the second part, has anyone seen a female drow paladin in some official context?
I think there are likely plenty of divine female characters of various carreers, and very few - if any - male ones. There will always be exceptions (thouigh any male that somehow managed to get divine power is probably going to get a dagger in the back at the first opportunity - hence you'll never hear of them).
Note though that the PHB classes are for characters. Opponents and NPCs hardly ever have classes - they simply have the powers they need.
Gomez
Alright, many voices to the same answer, no divine class for the males. But what about the second part, has anyone seen a female drow paladin in some official context?
Well, I don't remember an official Female Drow Paladin (though I admit I'm not too good with remembering the exact classes of lesser known NPCs). I can see a fair number of Paladins in her ranks, though perhaps a greater number of Avengers. As for Invokers, I'm not too sure she'd be overly happy to welcome them, even if they kissed up to her the most. Lolth doesn't like sharing, and if she can't tie those Invokers down and have them all to herself, she's likely to be spiteful and turn against them. Hells, look at the way she treats some of her clerical devout.
Traditionally no.
I dont see any male divine characters in the future either
A better question than 'would Lolth allow it' would be 'What the hell drow male would ever WANT to?'.
<_>
This is why getting rid of Vhaeraun and Selvetarm was freaking stupid.
This is why getting rid of Vhaeraun and Selvetarm was freaking stupid.
100% Correct.
This is why getting rid of Vhaeraun and Selvetarm was freaking stupid.
100% Correct.
QFT
This is why getting rid of Vhaeraun and Selvetarm was freaking stupid.
100% Correct.
QFT
+1
And yes, drow males can take a divine position with lolth: The missionary position.
or the willing Male sacrifice, aka lolth's meat
And yes, drow males can take a divine position with lolth: The missionary position.
This is why getting rid of Vhaeraun and Selvetarm was freaking stupid.
100% Correct.
QFT
+1
Are we doing me too posts? Me too then. Well, to Vharaun anyway.
Selvetarm deserved to die. The way he was kissing up, it was just a matter of time.
I'm going to go with the unpopular view (apparently). I think both Selvetarm and Vhaeraun were boring. I was really glad, actually, to see Eilistraee morph into something really interesting after she killed Vhaeraun, the Masked Lady, and was disappointed to see her get the chop.
I liked Eilistraee as well. I liked her focus on swordplay. Tempus was god of war, and the Red Knight stragedy, so I thought It was cool to have a god(ess) of Swordplay. Didnt much care for Vhaeraun, saw him as a drow clone of Mask. I liked Selvetarm and was hoping to see him redeem himself. Oh well I guess thats the way the Realms crumbles.
I liked Eilistraee as well. I liked her focus on swordplay. Tempus was god of war, and the Red Knight stragedy, so I thought It was cool to have a god(ess) of Swordplay. Didnt much care for Vhaeraun, saw him as a drow clone of Mask. I liked Selvetarm and was hoping to see him redeem himself. Oh well I guess thats the way the Realms crumbles.
If only Selvetarm could've redeemed himself - what a story that would have made! Consider if he could have purged himself of Zanassu, and regained his normal frame of mind... Eilistraee could have regained her ally.
Yeah thats what I was thinking. I always felt so bad for him. But really he should of known better than to listen to grandmamaw.
I honestly think Selvetarm was another of Eilistraee's uncountable screwups. Shouldn't the first thing she hammered into the boy have been NEVER TRUST YOUR GRANDMOTHER SHE IS EVIL AND INSANE STAY AWAY FROM HER? Also where the hell was Corellon in all of this? Oh right, ten to one she didn't even bother telling him. Would it have killed her to take five seconds to pop into Arvandor and say 'Hi daddy, you have a grandson now, Vhaeraun had a kid, I'm trying to win him to good, teehee. Wanna help me?' Nooo, probably thought 'Oh I'll just do this all on my own and surprise daddy with it!' Idiot.
So glad she's dead.
Poor Selvetarm. :<
I'd say poor Vhaeraun, but we all know that he's not really dead.
Lolth has always been one of the most cunning dieties out there. She has the looks, the brains and she is as amoral as they come. She had a very convincing argument for her grandson Selvetarm so him being tricked in slaying a demon for his aunt wasn't that stupid a move.
Selvetarm might have actually wanted to get close to Lolth to kill her but he tried it too early in his divine life.
Lolth has always been one of the most cunning dieties out there. She has the looks, the brains and she is as amoral as they come. She had a very convincing argument for her grandson Selvetarm so him being tricked in slaying a demon for his aunt wasn't that stupid a move.
Yes, because there's no greater asset a grandmother can use in manipulating her grandson than flaunting her stuff.
And yes, this is all Eili's fault. In my own realms, though, Eili's death-sacrifice restored Selvetarm to life as his original CN, pre-Zanassu taint self. And boy, did Selvetarm in turn swear vengeance against Granny 'Raushnee.
In my realms Vhaerun and Eilistraee both are archfey...
In my realms Vhaerun and Eilistraee both are archfey...
I keep hearing that term, what is an Archfey any way? Isnt that pretty much the samething as a god? or at least godlike? could they still have clerics? couldnt Corellon be considered an Archfey as well?
its a near godlike Fey.
and nor CL is stil la god.
archfey is up on par with primal spirit
So much easier when you just ignore most of what officially happens with the various Realms Godsheads and make it up yourself... much fewer head-meets-wall moments to deal with if you just don't pay any attention to the idiocy they have those deities get up to.
Yes it seems so.
So much easier when you just ignore most of what officially happens with the various Realms Godsheads and make it up yourself... much fewer head-meets-wall moments to deal with if you just don't pay any attention to the idiocy they have those deities get up to.
Right. Just wait about 3 years when the new batch of hot-shots starts working for Wizbro.
The spellplague wasn't kwel enough, wait till you see what we have cooking...
So much easier when you just ignore most of what officially happens with the various Realms Godsheads and make it up yourself... much fewer head-meets-wall moments to deal with if you just don't pay any attention to the idiocy they have those deities get up to.
Right. Just wait about 3 years when the new batch of hot-shots starts working for Wizbro.The spellplague wasn't kwel enough, wait till you see what we have cooking...
the crazy thing is, that when it does come, how many die hard fans will purchase it?
I wont
I'm going to go with the unpopular view (apparently). I think both Selvetarm and Vhaeraun were boring. I was really glad, actually, to see Eilistraee morph into something really interesting after she killed Vhaeraun, the Masked Lady, and was disappointed to see her get the chop.
The morphing bit was a bit kewl. But offing her wasn't anywhere near kewl.
the crazy thing is, that when it does come, how many die hard fans will purchase it?
I wont
Well it depends on what they do. I probably will get the next realms. I got all the other ones. I though the Time of troubles was pretty stupid, well actually the time of trouble part was ok, Cyric getting his but kicked and losing the Death portfolio to a dead guy, that was pretty stupid. But I still bought forgotten Realms. They didnt really shake it up too much for 3e, I was reall happy with that. I'm still a little unsure about 4e. There are things I like and things I think are dumb, Its definatly different Ill given em that.
ToT didn't bother me much. 3e didn't at first, but I think it was my least favorite iteration that I've actually bought. Just set too much in stone with the omniscient third person perspective it used... gimme 2e's ambiguous unreliable narrator any day.
Okay, I understand that Lolth only has priestess' but what about paladins and now invokers?
Personaly I can not recal any female or male drow paladins and invoker is still too new for published accounts.
Anyone care to share any ideas on the matter?
It's your game. If you want male Divine Drow, go for it.
Okay, I understand that Lolth only has priestess' but what about paladins and now invokers?
Personaly I can not recal any female or male drow paladins and invoker is still too new for published accounts.
Anyone care to share any ideas on the matter?
-Lolth has always allowed male priests. Such individuals only exist in the more 'liberal' Drow cities. In conservative Drow cities, such as Menzoberranzan, such individuals do not exist- hence the misperception that male priests of Lolth don't exist, period, given that 95% of information pertaining to the Drow of the Underdark seemingly stems from a source that somehow has something to do with menzoberranzan.
-Lolth has always allowed male priests. Such individuals only exist in the more 'liberal' Drow cities. In conservative Drow cities, such as Menzoberranzan, such individuals do not exist- hence the misperception that male priests of Lolth don't exist, period, given that 95% of information pertaining to the Drow of the Underdark seemingly stems from a source that somehow has something to do with menzoberranzan.
Yeah I was going to make the same point.
Okay, I understand that Lolth only has priestess' but what about paladins and now invokers?
Personaly I can not recal any female or male drow paladins and invoker is still too new for published accounts.
Anyone care to share any ideas on the matter?
-Lolth has always allowed male priests. Such individuals only exist in the more 'liberal' Drow cities. In conservative Drow cities, such as Menzoberranzan, such individuals do not exist- hence the misperception that male priests of Lolth don't exist, period, given that 95% of information pertaining to the Drow of the Underdark seemingly stems from a source that somehow has something to do with menzoberranzan.
"Only females can serve her as arachne. Males are considered unclean"
So, Lolth dont give any (celestial)power for males(she only grant power for females) what ever class they got,that is why is meaningless for take the cleric or avanger (or other celestial magic user) classes as male.
But in your own world, you can do anything when you like it, i specialy like the idea for take males in Lolth Paladin or avanger...
Cleric: As a cleric, your deity does not directly grant you powers. Instead, your ordination or investiture as a cleric grants you the ability to wield divine powers. (Question: who is in control of the investiture? Answer the female clerics of Lolth.) ... on rare occasions a deity moves to directly ordain a worthy worshiper ... (Question: who is in control of this event? Answer: Lolth herself)
Paladin: Paladins are not granted their powers directly by their deity, but instead through various rites performed when they first become paladins. (Question: who is control of these rites. Answer: the female paladins of Lolth.) ... paladins who stray too far from the tenets of their faith ... (Question: what is one of the tenets of Lolth? Answer: It's the females that have the power, followed by the strong subjugate the weak.)
Avenger: A ceremony of investiture at your home temple ... (Question: who is in control of the investiture? Answer: the female avengers.)
Invoker: Invokers don't gain their power through rites of investiture or ordination, as avengers, clerics, and paladins do. You bear the touch of your god's own hand on your soul, a direct channel through which divine power can flow into the world, shaped by your will. (Question: Whose hand is on the invokers soul? Answer: Lolth's hand.) ... you strive to bring your will into perfect accordance with your deity's ... (Question: What is the one of Lolth's desires? Answer: The females have the power and the men don't.)
The only way for a male drow to become a divine character of Lolth is to somehow fool the ruling eschelon that he's a she. Perhaps illusion magic or polymorphing into a drow female. But even then, that may not work in some cases.
Females and Lloth may control everything, but some exceptions do exist.
Hah. Good saying. But I still think some rare cases should be allowed (remember Rai'gy, or whatever his name was? The Lloth priest from Ched Nasad in Salvatore's books?).
Females and Lloth may control everything, but some exceptions do exist.
Maybe exist(ed), but not long live tho, Lolth dont want to ruin the rule she build up so long ago,and she dont want to give "sacred power" to males...(i mean my point of view, when she gives that power for a male, and when the times come, Lolth just kill him some way like always do,just like what she do about female clerics, or the females kill him,because they dont want a male with "sacred power")
Yet, the goal is to be female and a favored of Lloth. You don't achieve that easily by polymorphing your ass into a chick.
And yes, drow males can take a divine position with lolth: The missionary position.
WRONG LOL...this implies the male is 'in charge', so to speak
I recall there being a divine caster working for Jarlaxle that heals Regis. He's as amazed by the fact Lolth granted him a healing spell to heal a Halfling as anyone else. Or at least, I swear it was a he.
Granted, I have done it myself a couple times, but I learned. And QUICKLY.
However, if this is a "homebrew" campaign; then you would simply have to work out the details with the DM as to how/why a male Drow was granted such a prestigious opportunity.
Hope you get what you are hoping for
As far as positions of power, the most powerful males that come to my mind are -
Zaknafein - although, not divine, he is the most powerful male in Menzo
The Faceless One - most powerful wizard
Jarlaxale - I think everyone is acquainted with his untouchable mafia status.