Edit: Big changes, in case you don't have the book...
100 year time jump
Spellplague that changed some areas
Not as many Deities
- 100-year timeline skip. Official year is now 1479
- Shift toward a points-of-light setting. The roads and wilderness between civilized areas are not as safe as they used to be. Most portals don't work anyore. Traveling is perilous.
- About 10-15% of the deities are no more, including Mystra. Many pairs of deities were revealed to be two aspects of the same one: Gruumsh/Talos, Selûne/Sehanine, Akadi/Aerdrie
- Mulhorand, Unther, and the Vilhon Reach are no more; though there's now the new genasi kindgom of Akhanûl, and the dragonborm kingdom of Tymanther, both transported from the parallel world of Abeir
- Huge changes to the planes. Elemental planes merged with Abyss, Ethereal with Shadow, a few less Outer Planes, Faerie once again connected to Toril.
- The spellplagued has areas of unstable magic, filled with magical diseases and mutated creatures (Halruaa and Vilhon Reach mainly)
- Other geographic changes: Chult now an island, Anauroch less desertic, sides of the Great Rift collapsed in the Underdark, Thay an undead-filled impregnable plateau (more than before, I mean)
- Maztica is also gone, replaced by a whole continent of Abeir ruled by near-deific primordials and dragon overlords
- Shift toward a points-of-light setting. The roads and wilderness between civilized areas are not as safe as they used to be. Most portals don't work anyore. Traveling is perilous.
Slight nitpick here. Travel in the Realms was never supposed to be especially safe, and much of the pre-Spellplague Realms could be accurately described as "points of light."
That said, it is true that the 4E FR design team has endeavored to make the setting even more "points of light" than it was before.
Slight nitpick here. Travel in the Realms was never supposed to be especially safe, and much of the pre-Spellplague Realms could be accurately described as "points of light."
That said, it is true that the 4E FR design team has endeavored to make the setting even more "points of light" than it was before.
Ehh, that's subjective. It's more accurate to say that 4e makes it seem more pronounced then it was before.
4E FR embraces, at least in part, the "points of light" concept talked about on D&D Insider. There will be places in 4E FR that haven't been explored or mapped. Some of these "dark areas" may be explored in novels; most will be set aside for DMs who want to insert their own cool stuff into the campaign setting. In effect, the Spellplague allows us to put some of the "forgotten" back into the Forgotten Realms.
-So, yeah...
Whether 4E makes it seem more "points of light" is subjective.
They kept Cormyr and the Dales.
Cormyr is more 'Imperial', and the Dales more organized, but they are the only things (I can think of off-hand) that are still recognizable.
I think area's thata r emuch the same are indeed Cormyr and the Dalelands (even though some areas were taken by Sembia others by Cormyr). If you don't valye the Nightmasks, Westgate is pretty much the same as well. Same goed for Luruar and Waterdeep (minus Undermountain).
Moonshaes has the Amnian colonist added, and the aggresive fey, but I sonb't think it's flavor is different.
In a way, the more you change, the more stays the same...
Gomez
...The North, Sword Coast, Moonsea, Heartlands, Chult, Calimshan (land-wise, not population), etc...
There's the Kingdom of Many Arrows in the North. A development from 3e, but it culminated as a dynastic entity with some staying power after the century transition of 4E.
Weren't both Neverwinter and Luskan destroyed and rebuilt?
Elturgard is now in the Hearlands, before it was a mix of city states. The Harpers virtually ruled Berdusk, now they've converted into a deep secret organization.
Chult had it's main city Mezro destroyed, and it's now an island. There has to be some affect on the people there.
There's the Kingdom of Many Arrows in the North. A development from 3e, but it culminated as a dynastic entity with some staying power after the century transition of 4E.
Weren't both Neverwinter and Luskan destroyed and rebuilt?
Elturgard is now in the Hearlands, before it was a mix of city states. The Harpers virtually ruled Berdusk, now they've converted into a deep secret organization.
Chult had it's main city Mezro destroyed, and it's now an island. There has to be some affect on the people there.
Hence why I said land-wise... Everything changes in 100 years, but those places are (mostly) how they were before.
Now my question is if matizca is gone what happend to the north america thingie called anchorage i belive.
Now the other 2 continants connected to fareun arnt mentioned as well it was kara tur and Zatica i belive.
Now the 2 source books i have for 4e on FR are very vauge on many NPC's like shouldnt Artimis Enteri still be alive even if hes really old since his ageing has slowed down?
and what the hell happend to the dark elves theve kinda droped out of the books
well more to come i guess when i think of it but i will say this Damn you 4e you ruined all things elfy
Now my question is if matizca is gone what happend to the north america thingie called anchorage i belive.
-Anchorome. Technically, it should still be there, but it was connected to Maztica.
Now the other 2 continants connected to fareun arnt mentioned as well it was kara tur and Zatica i belive.
-Zakhara and Kara-Tur. Both are still there, and presumably, things haven't changed much until some source says otherwise.
Now the 2 source books i have for 4e on FR are very vauge on many NPC's like shouldnt Artimis Enteri still be alive even if hes really old since his ageing has slowed down?
-It's a possibility, but we don't know. What exactly happened to him was never fully revealed. His partial transformation enabled him to negate the dulling and slow down of his middle-aged senses and reaction times. Other than that, though, we don't know if he gained any kind of extended lifespan, or if he simply was killed sometime between the last novel he was in and 1,479 DR.
and what the hell happend to the dark elves theve kinda droped out of the books
-Presumably, they're still out there, doing their own things.
Undermountain has changed though, at least the upper levels, from what I have read so far in Downshadow.
I made a serious effort to maintain Undermountain as a classic, iconic part of the realms. The map I used when writing it is straight out of the 3.5 expedition, and it includes such sites as the Grim Statue (on the cover or the novel, no less), the Hall of Kings, and the Yawning Portal. Even Halaster gets a couple mentions. The culture is a little different, sure, but I think it's pretty clear that you're in Undermountain.
Cheers
-Zakhara and Kara-Tur. Both are still there, and presumably, things haven't changed much until some source says otherwise.
I was never really clear on the whole issue of the Weave. Does, or rather did, the Weave exist on other continents? Would the Spellplague presumably affect those same continents? This is not to mention how Abeir would affect them...
I was never really clear on the whole issue of the Weave. Does, or rather did, the Weave exist on other continents? Would the Spellplague presumably affect those same continents? This is not to mention how Abeir would affect them...
In theory, it was planet-wide, though in practice I think the loss of the Elemental Planes would be a bigger hit to Zakhara than the loss of the Weave was. The theory of magic was different there.
In theory, it was planet-wide, though in practice I think the loss of the Elemental Planes would be a bigger hit to Zakhara than the loss of the Weave was. The theory of magic was different there.
Hmm, did the other region's Gods really like the idea of Mystra having that much power? Or did other regions have different forms of Magic?
Also you mention the Zakharans would be more affected by the loss of the Elemental Planes, how so? And why?
Sorry I enjoyed Pre-Spellplague FR but was never investigated its finer points.
I was never really clear on the whole issue of the Weave. Does, or rather did, the Weave exist on other continents? Would the Spellplague presumably affect those same continents? This is not to mention how Abeir would affect them...
-Yes, the Weave was in all likelihood planet wide.
Hmm, did the other region's Gods really like the idea of Mystra having that much power? Or did other regions have different forms of Magic?
-Other places did have different forms of magic. Maztica, for example, had Pluma and Hishna magic, which was different from "normal" magic.
Also you mention the Zakharans would be more affected by the loss of the Elemental Planes, how so? And why?
-Zakhara was heavily tied to the Elemental Planes, with the Sha'ir, the Genies/Marid/Djinni/Efreeti, all of that.
Funny you should mention . . .
I made a serious effort to maintain Undermountain as a classic, iconic part of the realms. The map I used when writing it is straight out of the 3.5 expedition, and it includes such sites as the Grim Statue (on the cover or the novel, no less), the Hall of Kings, and the Yawning Portal. Even Halaster gets a couple mentions. The culture is a little different, sure, but I think it's pretty clear that you're in Undermountain.
I made a serious effort to maintain Undermountain as a classic, iconic part of the realms.
Oh, it's history and flavor was fitting - but it is seriously different than a hundred years ago, when adventurers would go down to fight it out with Halaster's craetures and traps.
After all, Halastar is gone (or is he...?) the upper levels are now inhabited (I didn't think that was the case originally), and you actually mentioned how the 'plaza' around the statue was created.
So it has changed, as is expected after hundred years of Undermountain without the mad mage.
Gomez
-Other places did have different forms of magic. Maztica, for example, had Pluma and Hishna magic, which was different from "normal" magic.
So, I take it those were variant magic systems created for 2E? Either way, thank you for explaining, I was fairly confused about Mystra and how her dieing didn't (appear to) affect the other continents.
-Zakhara was heavily tied to the Elemental Planes, with the Sha'ir, the Genies/Marid/Djinni/Efreeti, all of that.
Very interesting. I could definitely see how the sinking of the planes into the Elemental Chaos would rattle a few of their belief systems (if only from our perspectives).
Randomly, do the Gods of the Elemental Planes (Akadi, Kossuth, et al.) live in the Elemental Chaos or do they have realms in the Astral Sea? Also since they're now classified as Primordials, why have they been able to interact with Toril when Primordials were given Abier?
-As per Chris Perkins on that matter,4E FR embraces, at least in part, the "points of light" concept talked about on D&D Insider. There will be places in 4E FR that haven't been explored or mapped. Some of these "dark areas" may be explored in novels; most will be set aside for DMs who want to insert their own cool stuff into the campaign setting. In effect, the Spellplague allows us to put some of the "forgotten" back into the Forgotten Realms.
-So, yeah...
The underlined bit is actually what Eberron was created for. Lots of "white, undetailed spots" on the map for the DMs to "insert their own cool stuff". There was no reason at all to hammer the Realms when Eberron was and is there.
As for deities ... 150 odd deities pre-Spellplague/4E FR, 30odd now, plus twice as many demoted to a lesser status. My math tell me that this is more than 10 to 15%.
So, I take it those were variant magic systems created for 2E? Either way, thank you for explaining, I was fairly confused about Mystra and how her dieing didn't (appear to) affect the other continents.
-Yeah. Pluma and Hishna both got 3e write-ups in DRAGON magazine 315, if you want/need them. Other than that, they aren't mentioned in any 3e Forgotten Realms sources. Maztica is largely ignored.
The underlined bit is actually what Eberron was created for. Lots of "white, undetailed spots" on the map for the DMs to "insert their own cool stuff". There was no reason at all to hammer the Realms when Eberron was and is there.
-Regardless that, in truth, the Forgotten Realms had more "white, undetailed spots on the map for the DMs to insert their own cool stuff" per capita than other settings (most of the world was a blank!), the trope was that every nook and cranny had been given up long, long, write ups and details, which somehow translated into that being a bad thing, though I am still wondering how. That aside, that's the philosophy that the design team decided to take things down when they started revising the setting.
So it has changed, as is expected after hundred years of Undermountain without the mad mage.
No argument there, Gomez--I was just clarifying (as a die-hard UM fan) that while there are a number of things that have changed in some sense, it should not be assumed that the advent of *Downshadow* in some way changes *all of Undermountain.*
Halaster's dungeon is truly vast, and just because the first level (maybe 5% of the dungeon, to be generous) has a few adventurous residents warring with the monsters and traps who were there first doesn't mean it's any less the awesome Undermountain it ever was.
That's all I was saying.
Cheers
I'd add Waterdeep to that list as well. It's grown, but still pretty much the same as its always been
I read Blackstaff Tower.
The city pictured therein - with buildings in disrepair or falling down, broken statues and fountains, crooked city gaurds and politicians, harbor clogged with filth and refuse...
No... that wasn't the Waterdeep I remember... sorry...
The city pictured therein - with buildings in disrepair or falling down, broken statues and fountains, crooked city gaurds and politicians, harbor clogged with filth and refuse...
No... that wasn't the Waterdeep I remember... sorry...
You mean you never visited dock ward? :P
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
I've always thought of Waterdeep as having its fair share of buildings in disrepair and falling down, and statues and fountains get broken and chipped over time, and there have always been a LOT of crooked guards and politicians.
Cheers