Now the idea of a main character struggling with his own morality is far from original still doesn't mean it isn't a good one. There is a mild twist in it thought as Cale, the main character in question, has a dark past and is trying to break free of it, where as other more notable characters are merely products of their envirment and struggle to break free from it (i.e. Drizzt). Not to mention his lover is lost to him and his mentor kicked the bucket... sucks to be chosen by a god while in the middle of a midlife crissis. But he isn't even my favorite...
Now the main reason for the thread is I wish to know who is your favorite character of the series and why, because of their depth, their skillz, or even just the way the highlighted the other characters. Just make sure to explain. I'm sure some one will get around to mine, and at that point I will agree adding my own reasons if need be. Please, feel free to dig deep. It doesn't even need to be a two-legged guy, if you catch my drift.
-Concerning Erevis Cale, it was interesting to see him go from begrudgingly accepting Mask, to disliking Mask, to embracing Mask (however slightly), and comparing himself and his service to Mask to that of Jak Fleet, a priest himself.
-The Sojourner was really interesting, in that he was so mysterious (being a new race, and nearly a unique one at that), and that, in the end, his ultimate goal was very "human-like", and very atypical of what we're all used to (I am sure) a near-omnipotent antagonist wanting.
-I think it's a tie between Riven and The Sojourner.
I cried.
-Jak was a better character in Shadow's Witness (not that there was anything particularly wrong with him, in this series), I think. I am always reminded of the scene were Jak was almost killed by those wraiths, or whatever, and how he cried, and peed in his pants, and whatever else, and was genuinely afraid, despite being a "main character", and all of that. How often do you see, say, Drizzt, or Elminster, or anyone else so vulnerable?
It was Riven's reaction to it that made me 'lose it'... truly poignant. One of the few times I have seen a 'game novel' approach true literature. Paul Kemp played my emotions like a concerto.
And yeah, the death wasn't 'cheapened' with resurrection. Wulfgar's return ruined the entire Drizzt line for me - if characters can't die, the story loses its meaning.
Why Not? Nearly everyone else did. :P
Anyhow... yeah... death is very important in a good story... it turned My Girl from a stupid 'kiddy movie' to an incredibly poinent and tragic tale about life, and how short and precious it is.
And I agree with Lord Karsus in that Riven was my favorite character. There were two big reasons. First the way he played the Devil on Cales shoulder, just as Jak played his counterpart on his other deltoid, and in such an interesting way. Riven was one of the first truely NE characters I remember reading about, he didn't kill or rob or cheat to be malicious, merely to survive and assure that is stayed that way. The way he wins over Jak with Cale's morals for just that short time during the Slaad torture scene was just fantastic. It really showed how swayful Cales morals are at the time and he isn't always going to side with Jak. So really the way he played up Cales dark side is what did it for me.
And.. the dogs. Obviously.
So you're saying Trinity should have died in the first Matrix movie? :D
Why Not? Nearly everyone else did. :P
-Did she deserve to? I don't know, it's been a while. I know she died in the second one, and then was brought back to life, and look how that cheapened the story.
I'm not going to lie, I was really afraid Jak was going to make an apperance in the next trilogy. I wouldn't have liked that at all. Mostly because of just how well Paul managed to wrap up the death of such a promonent and emotionally anchored character from his companions perspectives. He made you understand why the choice was being made which ever way.
-I think the fact that even fans of the character wanted him to stay dead shows that Paul did something right, on a really subtle level. You think the "average" Drizzt fan would want Drizzt to stay dead, he he (gasp!) died in one of the novels?
Both fans and Haters would run out to buy it. :D
I liked Jak cuz he had some epic balls. And I also cried when he died too MT.
I cried when colosus died like a pendejo, and then freaking Grant Morrison brought him back. I was SO Piszed off It cheapens the effect I felt ripped off. I never read an X book ever again.
I might pick it up for the new "Dark" X men and that's it :P
He jumped the Aboleth. :P
-Magadon was a pretty interesting character. I don't want to say that Paul "jumped the shark" in the Twilight War trilogy, where Mephistopheles messed with Mags' mind and soul, but there was some weirdness going on there. Some of it I could appreciate, but some of it seemed too...I don't know. "Out there".
I see your point. but the thing is that is Mephistopheles we talking about He IS out there. I love my good guys Pali are my Fav class (in 3e. there's no such thing in 4E for me
) but when I DM, my evil char are EVIL. I think of the most horrible stuff. Last game the party was trying to save a gnome mining town from some particulary smart trolls. The party decides to ambush from the cielings of the houses. One particular troll decided to throw the first thing he got next him to the party. Sadly it was a gnome child. It was F*CKED UP. but you know, i see a troll doing that. You feel me?Ths is the era of 4e....
He jumped the Aboleth. :P
Dave Jones
Ths is the era of 4e....
He jumped the Aboleth. :P
-Heh. Good one.
I see your point. but the thing is that is Mephistopheles we talking about He IS out there. I love my good guys Pali are my Fav class (in 3e. there's no such thing in 4E for me
-No, I know what you mean. I agree. I don't have a problem with what Mephistopheles did. It's just when you think about just exactly what he did, that's the part that makes me (at least) go, "...Wait, what?"
I think my favorite character was Vraggen (although he got what he deserved for letting his guard down. I wonder what they teach to young acolytes nowadays).
I didn't like Jack and registered his passing without any emotion, not even faltering in my reading flow.
And I am hoping that Mask never comes back and just stays dead and forgotten.
I didn't like Jack and registered his passing without any emotion, not even faltering in my reading flow.
And I am hoping that Mask never comes back and just stays dead and forgotten.
Harsh tone dude
...Harsh tone dude
Actually I don't even consider Jack to worth changing tone, so consider all of this written in a completly emotionless tone.
Mask, well I disliked him for almost a decade and disliked him even more as he gained so much undeserved momentum from the last two Cale trilogies (I don't want to accuse every Mask-fan, but I honestly believe that if Kemp had picked any other deity instead of Mask these new fans would now be as much fan of that god as they're now fans of Mask).
Aside from my general dislike of Mask, I also disliked how he was portrayed in the last trilogy. He already had quite some screentime in the two "after-ToT-novels" and his personally there was totally different and the one I liked better (come on, he's NE, the most pure evil out there, and he even gives vile feats to his second in that very trilogy, and then he suddenly turns into a nice "sorry I have to put you through all of this" guy?)
This is the era of 4e....
He jumped the Aboleth. :P
ROFL! :D
As for Mask... Well I've always like the guy. Evil, Snarky and He steals! It's like House, Oceans 11, and some likeable bad guy roled into one. Now I understand your misintrest in the "Sorry I had to be the bad guy" bit. We all know he rathered enjoyed it. I think Cale either brought out the human in him or He was just saying it to assure Cale continued what he was doing. Everything I've ever read about the God tells me if nothing else he is a survivor and in the end that's I like best about him and what I take away from his collective works in both triologies. At Mask's reabsobtions of sorts, all he does is strive to keep one secret to insure he's there for round 2 (or 3 or 4 or whatever round he's on now). Maybe he was a little soft on Cale, but in the end he got what he wanted out of the guy..
So maybe, just maybe, it was all- part- of the plan... ;)
Mask, well I disliked him for almost a decade and disliked him even more as he gained so much undeserved momentum from the last two Cale trilogies (I don't want to accuse every Mask-fan, but I honestly believe that if Kemp had picked any other deity instead of Mask these new fans would now be as much fan of that god as they're now fans of Mask).
-Agreed.
I can't comment on how he acted in the second trilogy, but he just came-off as a 'sniveling lackey' in Prince of Lies - was that changed at all?
There was some confusing bits about him giving Cyric a sword, and then him BEING the sword, and then him reading the Cyrinishad and worshipping Cyric (and I can't remember if he was cured of that in that novel, or the sequel, which I never read).
Anyway, I guess I would have to also agree, since my previous opinion of him was pretty low. However, he had potential, and I think Mr. Kemp did an admirable job with him (with what little I have seen, all things considered).
Paul writes his characters into that 'gray area' I love so much (see my sig). As a DM, I have always liked to keep the players guessing, and not ever really knowing who exactly the 'bad guys' were (which, occasionally, turned out to be THEM!). IN the RW, people don't wear black & white hats - I've had people close to me betray me, and people I didn't like surprise me. I prefer my game worlds that way, and my novel characters as well.
The fact that there really aren't any 'good guys' in Paul's work makes it that much more realistic, as well as the fact that the obvious 'black hats' have redeeming qualities.
Even Tony Montana (Scarface) had a soft-spot for children... which was his undoing. ;)
Not skulking around, arguing like children and wacking each other with srticks.