For some gods, like Mystra, she gives them a LOT of free-will. For others - especially 'dark powers' - there is quite a bit more control. Also, in most cases, the Chosen are granted immortality (from a natural death), because they have been filled with this bit of the divine.
Basically, what Stigger said is the only thing that holds 100% true for all Chosen. Beyond that, it depends on the deity.
Mystra had her Magisters, which were a form of proxy (agent) for her, yet they were neither Chosen nor immortal, so 'lesser options' exist as well.
Gods also "work in mysterious ways". It has been hinted-at in RAS novels that Obould is a Chosen of Gruumsh, and that Drizzt may even be a Chosen (or lesser agent, sometimes called a 'favored soul') of Lolth! Gods of chaos, for example, may have Chosen and other agents working at odds, because this stimulates the chaotic aspect of their portfolio (hence, the theory about Drizzt).
So, considering how much someone like Drizzt hates Lolth, that means that 'Chosen' is a very hard thing to nail-down... no two need have anything in common, or even care for the god that has decided to favor them (I believe there was also a Chosen of Lathander, that was chosen before even worshipping that god).
As long as the deity's portfolio is being stregthened, I really doubt if the god cares much about how the mortal actually feels about them, at least in some cases.
But a list of detailed instructions on how to become immortal would be nice. :D
The concept... well, its one of those relatively simple things that are almost impossible to explain adequately in a lot of respects. Essentially, they're invested with the deity's power, given a set of abilities, sometimes standard, sometimes unique, and sent out to act as proxies for the deity, or maybe fulfill some other job as needed. Some are supposed to go kick arse around Faerun for their deity, some are just supposed to survive, some are supposed to teach, or maybe spread the faith, some are supposed to learn, and almost anything else you can think a deity might require at some point. Some are really powerful in combat, some are just brainy and not much of a threat unless they're spellcasters, and not always even then, some are just really smooth talkers... there isn't really any one sort or type that becomes a Chosen, and the choices are largely going to depend on what purpose and 'mission' the deity in question wants them for.
Nicely put.
...and that Drizzt may even be a Chosen (or lesser agent, sometimes called a 'favored soul') of Lolth! Gods of chaos, for example, may have Chosen and other agents working at odds, because this stimulates the chaotic aspect of their portfolio (hence, the theory about Drizzt).
Huh? Where'd this come from? Maybe a favored soul, but I don't see the Chosen thing in the least.
But a list of detailed instructiuons on how to become immortal would be nice. :D
Kiss ass. Fairly simple, huh?
Huh? Where'd this come from? Maybe a favored soul, but I don't see the Chosen thing in the least.
Musings from some character in some novel or other is where that suspicion about ol' Drizzythingy came from.
-He definitely wouldn't be a Favored Soul, as in the class from Complete Divine. Basically, the priestess from the Hunter's Blade trilogy said something along the lines that Drizzt might be special to Lolth, because no matter where he goes, chaos (and often destruction) follows.
I used the termed 'favored soul' as part of the english language - I could give a rat's arse what some designer did with it. This reminds me ofthe argument that you couldn't have a 'roguish paladin', because "Rogue is a class".
The language was around long before the terminology. I'm just talking about how he is viewed by certain 'heretical' Drow (once again, not using the D&D form of 'Heresy'). Drizzt sows chaos amongst the Drow, because he disproves the notion that drow can't be good, or that they cannot function on the surface.
Lolth is all about chaos, and she has also wanted her people to return to the surface since day one (that's canon), but the Drow obviousy like to ignore that particular 'mandate' from her. What better way to get them up off their butts then to prove it can be done?
And since Lolth is the deity of DROW, Drizzt does contribute to her portfolio, weather he likes it or not. His very existance furthers her machinations (as was proven when Jarlaxle was masquerading as Drizzt).
That is the basis for all the conjecture about him, and why the Baenre (officially) have decided to just "let him be". It is nothing more then hear-say from characters, and therefore far from anything canonical. I was just using it as a basis that it is possible that someone can be an agent of a god even if they do not care for that god (Everis Cale also seemed rather unwilling, at least at first).
Drizzt would not be a 'Chosen' - certainly not in the usual sense. He would be one of those 'lesser agents' (which is why I called him a favored soul), if there is even any truth in the stuff about him and Lolth. In fact, that sentiment is far more likely to hold-true for the self-serving Jarlaxle, who also appears to have her favor.
All of this, simply because I wanted to demonstrate that there is no one definition that covers all Chosen.
-To be in topic, kinda, though, most Chosen templates don't seem to physically alter the body, save the 'agelessness' that some bestow on people.
-He definitely wouldn't be a Favored Soul, as in the class from Complete Divine. Basically, the priestess from the Hunter's Blade trilogy said something along the lines that Drizzt might be special to Lolth, because no matter where he goes, chaos (and often destruction) follows.
Exactly. That was what I was about to reply to Stigger with. Though, he did have it correct with "musings."
Rules are crutch....
Blah, blah, blah. We aren't talking rules.
I see your point, but I don't see Drizzt being in anyway directly connected to Lloth or her portfolio. He's simply an added bonus to her.
You know? Sort of like eating that burrito and finding out your the winner of that "special" ingredient.
Gug. I'll never eat black beans again.
@LK - If the Underdark can have its own Giants and Dragons, I don't think wings would be much of a problem. In fact, I'm pretty sure there several flyers that are unique to the Underdark.
Its funny, but I started reading The Seven Sisters today (I've had it since it came out, but never bothered to read it), and there are a bunch of 'Generic' rules in there that apply to ALL Chosen.
But of course, the tome was written when only Mystra had Chosen in canon, so its debatable weather those rules should apply to others.
I'm unaware of any template in a 2e soource. :P
The tome gives rules common to ALL Chosen (thats exactly what it says).
However, at the time it was written, only Mystra had chosen. If you were the type to take the book literally (and a rules-lawyer would), then those rules must apply to all Chosen, precisely as stated.
Common sense demands that we also take into account that only Mystra had Chosen when the book was written, ergo I'm sure Ed meant only Mystra's Chosen, but at that time there was no need to specify that.
Thats considered a delicacy in Mexico - you're lucky they didn't charge extra. :P
Even Mexicans don't eat rat CENSORED, you CENSORED boob.
Why would a template from a book solely about the Chosen of Mystra apply to Chosen of any other deity? That seems a little... off... in its thinking.
MT is correct. It was a 2e thing meant to encompass all gods to a degree.
Though you're right about Mystra needing to be put in her place. She definitely needed to beat down all the other gods and just take over. :P
;)
Except that it wasn't... :P
Uh-huh! Was, too!
They were proxies at that point... which was very different.
No. Again you are simply trying to tag what's in the Sourcebook to the Seven Sisters and not what it's intent was. If I recall correctly--and it's been years, I have to say unfortunately--the language therein did not focus solely on Mystra and her Chosen. It was implied across the board. Not quite proxy; not quite template; just a bunch of pick or choose possibilities with a DM option for expansion, based on the god and such.
Even in the specific powers sections, both manifested and latent, it attributes the abilities to the presence of the "silver fire of Mystra", rather than a more nebulous divine energy source. Unless of course you're suggesting that all deities secretly possess the silver fire of Mystra and that Bane was truly a numbskull for questing after something he possessed the entire time in his going after her Chosen as often as he seemed to...
So yeah, might have looked it up before making such definitive statements.
That entire section is entitled "Powers of the Chosen". I don't see Mystra's name anywhere in the title. Most of the abilites discussed are simply applied to "all Chosen".
I will agree that Mystra's name does appear beside specific stuff.. but in general, unless her name is specifically mentioned alongside something, then I would imagine "Powers of the Chosen" applies to all Chosen, not just Mystra's.
You are reading something and thinking your take on what is written is the correct take - I've been down this road before plenty of times with LK.
I choose to look at the parts with Mystra's name as the exceptions, not the rule.
Mystra controls all magic (according to her clergy), so of course any changes to the magical abilites of ALL Chosen need to be cleared with her, in the same way that all priestly magic must also be approved by Mystra, even when the god in question isn't an ally. Its fairly obvious that divine magic is handled by the weave (in canon), and therefore chosen abilities must also use the Weave.
If you say that anything Mystra has control over is part of her own followers (Clergy and Chosen), then by that you must think that everyone who worships a god on Toril must also be a follower of Mystra.
BTW, I'm not agreeing with this - I know damn well that Ed only meant Mystra's Chosen when he wrote that, because other Chosen simply did not exist.
However, just because we know this in a meta-gaming way doesn't mean it is true when someone tries to apply older rules to newer concepts. Unless something appears in an official source that says "The rules for Chosen in The Seven Sisters only apply to Chosen of Mystra", then such a ruling does not exist and a basis for argument does.
Even in manifested powers, the only abilities not specifically tied to the silver fire is the immunity to one spell of each level, and the casting of one spell of each level they can cast. That is pretty much the only one that could even remotely be argued that all chosen possess, as its the only one that doesn't mention silver fire specifically, or which is covered under the caveat mentioned at the very beginning of the Latent Powers section.
So :P
;)
Considering her portfolio is about magic, in the long-run, she's only helping herself anyway.
;) :P
Right. Mystra needs to be put in her rightful place at the top.:P
-Yeah, on the list of things that should be removed from the prominence she enjoys. WotC was on the ball on this one, though, the way they went about doing it was all wrong.
:D
Meh, you're just bitter because you got retconned into a Sharran finger-puppet. :P
:D
-That was before the 4e setting information came out. It was stupid at the time, stupid now, and as such, gets ignored. I'm not bitter, since it hardly ever even crosses my mind.
You keep telling yourself that as you cry yourself to sleep at night like a good little vestige. :P
-Yeah, THAT and the "Karsite" race annoys me. Though, I do like Vestiges, now that I know the rules and stuff. Cool stuff. Cool concept.
-Good thing that's all not canon.
Meh, you're just bitter because you got retconned into a Sharran finger-puppet. :P
:D
And a guy slept around a lot (and had LOTS of kids!).:P
:D
Just call me 'Mr. potency'. :P
Much like El after that little incident with the Netherese tomb-a-thingy that those hapless adventurers semi-accidentally freed him from. :D
Ahem, I have a question... What the mission of a chosen, what's the difference between them and The Magister for instance?
And yeah, I do have a few periods of lost time, so I suppose anything's possible. I hear my 'alter ego' is quite the womanizer. :P
And to bring this back on-topic, I sometimes think I may be a 'Chosen'...
I just can't figure-out what chose me... or what 'team' I'm supposed to be playing for...
But seriously, folks....
The whole 'Chosen' thing also leads to more discussions and arguments then they're worth - they got 'cheapened' and started becoming a dime-a-dozen, and even the definition got muddled (I can think of at least three NPCs that got that title, who most-likely werent actual 'Chosen').
LK, your just mad because you're still a vir... err a Virgo... yeah... thats it.
-I'm a Libra.
But seriously, folks....
The whole 'Chosen' thing also leads to more discussions and arguments then they're wotrth - they got 'cheapened' and started becoming a dime-a-dozen, and even the definiytion got muddled (I can think of at least three NPCs that got that title, who most-likely werent actual 'Chosen').
-As it should be. You're specially empowered by your deity to serve as Chosen do? You're a Chosen: Mask, Mystrka, (seemingly) Myrkul...
I'm a Libra myself, as at least one Chosen would be as well, had they been born on Earth, I'm sure, just to keep it sort of topical...
So you wanted the meaning diluted and cheapend then I take it?
-Like I said, you're specially empowered by your deity to serve as a Chosen does, you're a Chosen. There shouldn't be anything inherently special about anyone to preclude them from having Chosen, or anything inherently special about the term, in relation to different deities (ie, Mystra).
So those NPCs could very well be Chosen of Gruumsh, or Lathander, or Lolth, or Silvanus... and yet never recieve any benefits from that status.
In fact, thanks to that Drow - Qilué Veladorn - we know you can worship one deity, and be a chosen of another.
And I also just re-discovered that Elminster not only has all the powers of a Chosen of Mystra, but also has special benefits given to him by no less then 10 gods, and the Elven Pantheon (Code of the Harpers).
Face it... Elminster pwns... :D
So we go full-circle once again, and only Mystra has 'real' Chosen (in other words, ones with 'gauranteed special powers').
-Here's a whole bunch of 'real' Chosen.
So those NPCs could very well be Chosen of Gruumsh, or Lathander, or Lolth, or Silvanus... and yet never recieve any benefits from that status.
-Chosen of Denier. Funny...Looks like the Chosen of Denier receive plenty of benefits from their status. Same thing with the Chosen of Bane, who we have stats for.
And I also just re-discovered that Elminster not only has all the powers of a Chosen of Mystra, but also has special benefits given to him by no less then 10 gods, and the Elven Pantheon (Code of the Harpers).
-Harpers receive blessings from all different deities, reflective in the Harper Agent PrC.
-Like I said, you're specially empowered by your deity to serve as a Chosen does, you're a Chosen. There shouldn't be anything inherently special about anyone to preclude them from having Chosen, or anything inherently special about the term, in relation to different deities (ie, Mystra).
I'd say it depended more on the level of investment of the deity, more than just being a servitor... any cleric could be said to be a Chosen in that sense afterall. I'd tend to use Mystra as the benchmark, as in directly infusing them with a portion of divine essense, rather than just bandying about the term for any high-status agent of a given deity.
I'd say it depended more on the level of investment of the deity, more than just being a servitor... any cleric could be said to be a Chosen in that sense afterall. I'd tend to use Mystra as the benchmark, as in directly infusing them with a portion of divine essense, rather than just bandying about the term for any high-status agent of a given deity.
-Was just trying to use the vaguest terms possible (for MT's sake, with our nearly opposing viewpoints)- anything that would qualify as a Planescape Proxy, that's my opinion on a Chosen. Same thing, different term.
A 'Chosen', by definition, is an "agent of a god" - nothing more. Any special powers granted are purely optional and vary by god (and, perhaps, from Chosen to Chosen of the same god).
-Harpers receive blessings from all different deities, reflective in the Harper Agent PrC.
3e rules and lore and not acceptable for intelligent arguments. Please refrain from using 'PrC' to back-up anything you might add. :P
The 2e supplement Code of the Harpers is THE definitive source, and only Master Harpers get the deific benefits (and not all of Mystra's Chosen qualify).
So you can be chosen, without being a Chosen? You're spliting hairs - since we have different stats for various 'Chosen' in canon, with varying power-levels, then it is entirely possible that a chosen of Gruumsh merely gets a boost to his three physical stats (and a little growth). Unless there is ONE specific set of rules for ALL Chosen, you can NOT define what a Chosen is. For every god it is different.
A 'Chosen', by definition, is an "agent of a god" - nothing more. Any special powers granted are purely optional and vary by god (and, perhaps, from Chosen to Chosen of the same god).
-So, in the end, you are agreeing with me. You're weird. ;) :P
3e rules and lore and not acceptable for intelligent arguments. Please refrain from using 'PrC' to back-up anything you might add. :P
-All I saw doing was agreeing with your statement, using information to support and back it up. Geeze. Remind me next time to not even bother. :P