Cities of Ancient Netheril? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Cities of Ancient Netheril?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
argent_mantle
Oct 19, 2008 18:17:47 How long did the loss of magic last with Karsus folly?

How large were the cities of High Netheril? Mileage or radius?

They were shaped like... mountains that had been flipped over and a city built on the base.
#2
phelf_der_zemit
Oct 19, 2008 18:32:58 The cities were not small, exact size I can't be certain but I imagine it would take about half your day just to stroll from one side to the other.

I am unsure as to how long it wasn't there, I always thought it a few secounds of disruption that made the cities crash and spells die. So that could expand from 30secs to almost a full 5 minutes, I've never actually seen a citie the size of a mountain fall out of the sky.
#3
Mr_Miscellany
Oct 19, 2008 23:57:58 Crap....the other forum members figured approximately how long magic was "turned off" on another thread, but I can't remember which one it was.

Not terribly long though.

The 2nd Edition Netheril, Empire of Magic sourcebook states that mages used Proctiv's Move Mountain spell to literally shore away a mountain from its resting place, leaving a flat mesa behind.

Thus, the size of an enclave probably depended on just how big a mountain was selected.

I do recall Ed Greenwood stating over at Candleleep.com that this wasn't the only method used; some arcanists drew together large chunks of earth to accomplish the same feat (memory is dim on this, though).
#4
zanan
Oct 20, 2008 4:58:53 You can get all the info needed in aforementioned Netheril - Empire of Magic box as a free download here. It is all AD&D, i.e. 2E, but that does not exactly matter when it comes to background.

Karsus' folly resulted in the split of Mystryl and her reincarnation as the "first" Mystra. From what we know, this did not last long, not even days.
#5
davesaunders
Oct 20, 2008 10:22:12 I think LK said there was confusion because in edtion 2 D&D, the amount of a round was different than in edition 3 D&D or that there were two times for a round in edition 2 D&D. Something like that.
#6
lord_karsus
Oct 20, 2008 11:51:46 -A map of Netheril can be seen in AGHotR, and obviously, the Netheril: Empire of Magic box.

-And, yes, the confusion of how long the Weave was "down" stems from Second Edition and Third Edition. In Second Edition, when How the Mighty Are Fallen, a round was longer than it is in Third Edition. A later rule supplement to Second Edition, however, altered the time a round was, to make it more approximate to Third Edition. So, the amount of time the Weave was "down" ranges from 30 seconds to 5 minutes. Being as that, given the context, 5 minutes doesn't make too much sense, the 30 second number is much more realistic.
#7
old_sage
Oct 21, 2008 19:44:25
I do recall Ed Greenwood stating over at Candleleep.com that this wasn't the only method used; some arcanists drew together large chunks of earth to accomplish the same feat (memory is dim on this, though).

Indeed.

From THO, over at Candlekeep:-

"Re Netheril’s floating cities, I’m guessing you’ve misread Ed’s reply. Here’s the relevant part of it: “Smyther, very few of the floating cities of Netheril were severed mountaintops. I know of only two, out of almost two score floating cities and castles (some floating constructs were little more than a single fortress).”

So, Ed’s saying there are almost forty floating cities, but only TWO were “for certain” (and Ed is THE Ultimate Realms Authority) made by severing mountaintops and using those mountaintops as the city base, as opposed to shattering it into rock rubble and fashioning it into building blocks.

Also, it’s important to remember that the Netherese archwizards were extremely competitive. There’s NO WAY that Proctiv’s Move Mountain would have been a spell “shared around” at the time the enclaves were being created. So every enclave creator would have had to “reinvent the wheel” and craft an enclave in their own way.

What Ed was saying was that very few of them were made from intact severed mountaintops (don’t be misled by the inclusion of that spell in the PG). Here’s a snippet from Ed’s notes on the matter, pre-TSR-publication:

“The most popular form of enclave creation was to create a rigid flying base out of something (permanent wall of forces were popular) and bond the archwizard’s existing tower, castle, or garden-surrounded mansion onto it.”

Always remember, Ed’s lore came first, and everyone else embroiders it, sometimes without even having access to the original writings.

love to all,
THO"
#8
Mr_Miscellany
Oct 22, 2008 0:26:38 Ha! Not so dim after all. ;)

My players like the Wall of Force construction method too.
#9
davesaunders
Oct 31, 2008 11:01:06 good to see I remembered close enough.
#10
Zireael
Oct 31, 2008 13:09:01 Given Karsus's Fall, I would say 30 secs was the time.
All the info can be found in Netheril: Empire of Magic (speaking of cities).
#11
liquid150
Nov 03, 2008 12:27:00 IIRC magic failed for the span of time that Karsus *was* the God of Magic. In this span of time, Mystyl sacrificed herself to be reincarnated as Mystra, which took place after the Fall. Karsus was unable to perform the duties of the God of Magic due to overestimating his breadth of mind, and this caused magic to fail (albeit briefly).

I was under the impression that the leaders of Shade had been forced to decide whether to open the gate to the Plane of Shadow, or attempt to revert the fall of their city. They chose the former as the latter would most likely not have been accomplished by the time the city crashed. However, the fact that this decision was made seems to indicate that the Weave was reestablished by the time the cities hit the ground.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 argent_mantle Oct 19, 2008 18:17:47	How long did the loss of magic last with Karsus folly? How large were the cities of High Netheril? Mileage or radius? They were shaped like... mountains that had been flipped over and a city built on the base.
#2 phelf_der_zemit Oct 19, 2008 18:32:58	The cities were not small, exact size I can't be certain but I imagine it would take about half your day just to stroll from one side to the other. I am unsure as to how long it wasn't there, I always thought it a few secounds of disruption that made the cities crash and spells die. So that could expand from 30secs to almost a full 5 minutes, I've never actually seen a citie the size of a mountain fall out of the sky.
#3 Mr_Miscellany Oct 19, 2008 23:57:58	Crap....the other forum members figured approximately how long magic was "turned off" on another thread, but I can't remember which one it was. Not terribly long though. The 2nd Edition Netheril, Empire of Magic sourcebook states that mages used Proctiv's Move Mountain spell to literally shore away a mountain from its resting place, leaving a flat mesa behind. Thus, the size of an enclave probably depended on just how big a mountain was selected. I do recall Ed Greenwood stating over at Candleleep.com that this wasn't the only method used; some arcanists drew together large chunks of earth to accomplish the same feat (memory is dim on this, though).
#4 zanan Oct 20, 2008 4:58:53	You can get all the info needed in aforementioned Netheril - Empire of Magic box as a free download here. It is all AD&D, i.e. 2E, but that does not exactly matter when it comes to background. Karsus' folly resulted in the split of Mystryl and her reincarnation as the "first" Mystra. From what we know, this did not last long, not even days.
#5 davesaunders Oct 20, 2008 10:22:12	I think LK said there was confusion because in edtion 2 D&D, the amount of a round was different than in edition 3 D&D or that there were two times for a round in edition 2 D&D. Something like that.
#6 lord_karsus Oct 20, 2008 11:51:46	-A map of Netheril can be seen in AGHotR, and obviously, the Netheril: Empire of Magic box. -And, yes, the confusion of how long the Weave was "down" stems from Second Edition and Third Edition. In Second Edition, when How the Mighty Are Fallen, a round was longer than it is in Third Edition. A later rule supplement to Second Edition, however, altered the time a round was, to make it more approximate to Third Edition. So, the amount of time the Weave was "down" ranges from 30 seconds to 5 minutes. Being as that, given the context, 5 minutes doesn't make too much sense, the 30 second number is much more realistic.
#7 old_sage Oct 21, 2008 19:44:25	I do recall Ed Greenwood stating over at Candleleep.com that this wasn't the only method used; some arcanists drew together large chunks of earth to accomplish the same feat (memory is dim on this, though). Indeed. From THO, over at Candlekeep:- "Re Netheril’s floating cities, I’m guessing you’ve misread Ed’s reply. Here’s the relevant part of it: “Smyther, very few of the floating cities of Netheril were severed mountaintops. I know of only two, out of almost two score floating cities and castles (some floating constructs were little more than a single fortress).” So, Ed’s saying there are almost forty floating cities, but only TWO were “for certain” (and Ed is THE Ultimate Realms Authority) made by severing mountaintops and using those mountaintops as the city base, as opposed to shattering it into rock rubble and fashioning it into building blocks. Also, it’s important to remember that the Netherese archwizards were extremely competitive. There’s NO WAY that Proctiv’s Move Mountain would have been a spell “shared around” at the time the enclaves were being created. So every enclave creator would have had to “reinvent the wheel” and craft an enclave in their own way. What Ed was saying was that very few of them were made from intact severed mountaintops (don’t be misled by the inclusion of that spell in the PG). Here’s a snippet from Ed’s notes on the matter, pre-TSR-publication: “The most popular form of enclave creation was to create a rigid flying base out of something (permanent wall of forces were popular) and bond the archwizard’s existing tower, castle, or garden-surrounded mansion onto it.” Always remember, Ed’s lore came first, and everyone else embroiders it, sometimes without even having access to the original writings. love to all, THO"
#8 Mr_Miscellany Oct 22, 2008 0:26:38	Ha! Not so dim after all. ;) My players like the Wall of Force construction method too.
#9 davesaunders Oct 31, 2008 11:01:06	good to see I remembered close enough.
#10 Zireael Oct 31, 2008 13:09:01	Given Karsus's Fall, I would say 30 secs was the time. All the info can be found in Netheril: Empire of Magic (speaking of cities).
#11 liquid150 Nov 03, 2008 12:27:00	IIRC magic failed for the span of time that Karsus was the God of Magic. In this span of time, Mystyl sacrificed herself to be reincarnated as Mystra, which took place after the Fall. Karsus was unable to perform the duties of the God of Magic due to overestimating his breadth of mind, and this caused magic to fail (albeit briefly). I was under the impression that the leaders of Shade had been forced to decide whether to open the gate to the Plane of Shadow, or attempt to revert the fall of their city. They chose the former as the latter would most likely not have been accomplished by the time the city crashed. However, the fact that this decision was made seems to indicate that the Weave was reestablished by the time the cities hit the ground.