And Khelben? And The Seven Sisters? You get the idea.
The topic came up in my game when the PCs were on board a ship across the Akanamere in Chessenta when drow pirates attacked. (Yep, drow pirates.) After a rousing rendition of "Row, row, row your boat" from the crew*, the pirate captain / cleric of Lolth did some taunting and demanded surrender as a warm-up to boarding. So the Beguiler PC cast Glibness and responded with "Will you be quiet, woman!? You'll wake up Elminster and Khelben, here - and at their age, if you wake them from their nap, you know they'll get cranky and start throwing spells around! They didn't come to Chessenta on holiday to be bothered by drow, or pirates, or both at the same time, after all!" and a Bluff check of 53. The most out-there category of Bluff only adds +20 to the Sense Motive. Gee.
So partly out of curiousity, but a lot to do with wondering how I can possibly salvage this adventure
, I'm wondering just how famous Elminster and Khelben and all the other famous NPCs really are.My opinion is that, as far as the rest of the world knows, Elminster is a moderately well-known sage of a small village in the Dalelands, and Khelben is head wizard of Waterdeep and a politician. All the other high-level shenanigans go on behind-the-scenes. People in the area or in the field might know of them, but you'd have to really be in the know to know what they're capable of, and most normal people don't have a clue.
I'm also of the view that a typical cleric of Lolth, from a small realm beneath the Old Empires (literally, been living under a rock) has especially zero knowledge of personages from the other side of the continent, especially human scum, and even if she somehow did, doubts that human mages amount to squat compared to drow.
The PC tells me that Elminster and Khelben have been around for centuries and are prominent wizards, and that the drow don't live in complete isolation and have contact with the outside world enough to get such knowledge.
Still, I'm not seeing it, but I never got into the famous NPCs or their plots or read their novels, so to me, they're really just typical NPCs just like any other court wizard or town sage.
Advice, suggestions, answers? Thanks.
And are Elminster and Khelben even likely to go on a Mediterranean cruise, together?
* Spoilered for your safety:
Show
Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a scream!
Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
If you see a spider,
Don't forget to laugh!
Rock, rock, rock your boat,
Madly down the stream.
Watch out, give a shout,
Into the water you go!
Row, row, row your boat,
Quickly down the stream.
Bloodily, bloodily, bloodily, bloodily,
We'll rip out your spleen!
Row, row, row your boat,
Before we take your eye.
Verily, verily, verily, verily,
Now it's time to die!
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a scream!
Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
If you see a spider,
Don't forget to laugh!
Rock, rock, rock your boat,
Madly down the stream.
Watch out, give a shout,
Into the water you go!
Row, row, row your boat,
Quickly down the stream.
Bloodily, bloodily, bloodily, bloodily,
We'll rip out your spleen!
Row, row, row your boat,
Before we take your eye.
Verily, verily, verily, verily,
Now it's time to die!
In Shadowdale: "Did you hear? An assassin attacked Elminster in his tower, but he transformed into a Dragon, picked the assassin up, and dropped him in the Moonsea!"
In Chult: "Did you hear? That magician Elminster was attacked by an assassin, summoned the Dragons of the Moonsea to aid him in combat, and utterly destroyed his attacker!"
Regardless, you're speaking of priestesses of Llloth. They aren't going to care who the hell is supposedly on the boat. They fail the Spider Queen, they sacrifice their lives. The only way they are going to turn back is if the retaliation is so fierce that they gain an excuse for retreat.
Waking up these dreaded wizards is not that excuse.
BTW--no offense--but when do drow directly confront their prey? Should they not be popping up on the deck with the PC's completely unexpecting? ;)
)That's a good point, JudgeDookie, thanks. Even if they do believe this mad tale (hard not to with the glibness spell), turning back in fear brings a certainty of utter suffering of their superiors, versus a mere promise of lesser suffering from the humans. They could advance much more cautiously, or indeed, much more recklessly
(ramming speed!).As for their tactics, it's a little hard to sneak up on someone with a sailing ship (we're talking triremes here). So they've opted for an intimidating frontal assault, possibly as a distraction... Of course, the drow ship appeared by coming up and out of a whirlpool, so they'd already lost the element of surprise. (Drow pirates, they're like ninja pirates, so you get the best of both worlds.)
Okay, thanks, LK. I might make a Knowledge check, or the priestess can ask a prisoner, if she thinks she needs to know. (The PC himself comes from Waterdeep, so he himself would know all about Elminster and Khelben. And, oh, another PC, half-drow, asked who Khelben is.
-And, if they do bad on a Knowledge check, you can make something completely weird up. Fail, and suddenly, they think that Elminster is the name of a treasonous Cormyrian noble, or a explorer who trekked into Chult, or whatever else.
As for their tactics, it's a little hard to sneak up on someone with a sailing ship (we're talking triremes here). So they've opted for an intimidating frontal assault, possibly as a distraction... Of course, the drow ship appeared by coming up and out of a whirlpool, so they'd already lost the element of surprise. (Drow pirates, they're like ninja pirates, so you get the best of both worlds.)
Bear in mind this reply comes with a disclaimer: I am in no way a sailor!...but...
You'd be surprised how easy it is to sneak up on a ship, especially if your pirates are drow.
A ship approaching in the night is more likely to be heard then seen.
Bear in mind the ships we're talking about don't contain sonar or even running lights that modern ships carry. In the blackness of night you might catch a silhouette against the see if you're on lookout but the ship would probably have to be very close to spot, and if that ship is carrying passengers who are all endowed with nightvision (meaning they don't need any torches or other light sources on deck to help with illumination), there wouldn't be any small specs of light on the water to help you spot that dark silhouette from any other one out on the waves. Add in the fact that drow have a whole language of hand cant they use, and you have an almost complete stealth ship at night.
You could always have the drow "retreat" in the face of this threat, when in reality they've just decided that if there is that large of a threat on the ship they though would be an easy target (doing a full frontal assault during the day) perhaps it's better to take care of it at a time more favorable to the tactics of their brethren.(wait until nightfall and try again when the ship is half asleep)
In any case, a friendly NPC had already discovered the drow's pet kapoacinth gargoyle that was doing its best figurehead impersonation at a previously attacked ship. So that something was up and an attack was possible was already known, and lookouts posted. (Though, this is all just me setting up the story and covering my plot-holes.
)In the end, the priestess rolled a 9 for her general knowledge check, and asked a prisoner (another PC) to explain, who answered with a suitably fawning answer about the power of a Lolthite priestess. The attack goes ahead! :D
You'd be surprised how easy it is to sneak up on a ship, especially if your pirates are drow.
-Drow Ninja. Fixed that for you.
Bear in mind this reply comes with a disclaimer: I am in no way a sailor!...but...
I am :P
You'd be surprised how easy it is to sneak up on a ship, especially if your pirates are drow.
A ship approaching in the night is more likely to be heard then seen.
Bear in mind the ships we're talking about don't contain sonar or even running lights that modern ships carry. In the blackness of night you might catch a silhouette against the see if you're on lookout but the ship would probably have to be very close to spot, and if that ship is carrying passengers who are all endowed with nightvision (meaning they don't need any torches or other light sources on deck to help with illumination), there wouldn't be any small specs of light on the water to help you spot that dark silhouette from any other one out on the waves. Add in the fact that drow have a whole language of hand cant they use, and you have an almost complete stealth ship at night.
This is very true. Any legit ship (other than warships) run with lights. You can see a ship's running lights, even those of little dinghys, for over thirty nautical miles. A ship without lights can't be seen at all. And if the ship was painted black, with black sails, even a character with darkvision probably wouldn't be able to see it.
You could always have the drow "retreat" in the face of this threat, when in reality they've just decided that if there is that large of a threat on the ship they though would be an easy target (doing a full frontal assault during the day) perhaps it's better to take care of it at a time more favorable to the tactics of their brethren.(wait until nightfall and try again when the ship is half asleep)
I don't know why the drow would attack during the day in the first place.
Unless that specific drow is interested with the surface world and it's arcane "movers and shakers" I would not think that that specific drow coincedently knows who EL is.
I don't know why the drow would attack during the day in the first place.
I just assumed the attack was durring the day from the way he described it, my mistake.
-Drow Ninja. Fixed that for you.
My bad...Drow Ninja Pirates
Also in the intrest of fairness, I should point out my ideas for a night time raid and the fact of how well sound carries across the sea are stolen from the ship battle scenes at the end of the Erevis Cale Trilogy.
As to more detailed lore regarding his powers, capabilities, deeds, or legendary exploits...that is another matter, and would require incrementally higher DC checks in Knowledge (Arcana, History, Local, Religion, etc), Bardic Knowledge, or Gather Information.
A generally uneducated and inexperienced NPC may only know of Elminster as a "mere" wizard, and perhaps view him as no more of a challenge than any other adventurer that may have crossed his path, or simply believe the legends about him to be bardic nonsense. Example: a typical Zhentarim warrior sent to attack Shadowdale.
Conversely, a well-researched loremaster who may be a foe of Elminster or otherwise have once given forethought to possibly crossing his path, might simply see through the blatent lie of the PCs. Namely they might note that Mystra's silver fire elminates any need for sleep, or that as an archmage he has little need to travel by ship. Example: Melegaunt Tanthul
Moreover, simply throwing around the names of powerful archmage has a tendency to attract misfortune. Identifying yourself as an ally or harborer of such well-known personages will in turn attract the attention of their numerous foes and enemies. They might see you as a potential hostage or source of information, or simply strike you down as collateral Likewise, it may cause capricious reprisal from said archmage, specifically when those specific wizards have the power to hear whenever their names are spoken and the words uttered thereafter.
Personally I would handle it in the following steps:
1) The characters succeeds on his bluff. There is no reason to punish a character who has made the deliberate choice to invested in a particular skill like Bluff or a rare niche spell like Glibness. The Drow Pirates fully believe that Khelben and Elminster are on board, and retreat from the vessel with caution. At your discretion award the players 10-50% of the XP they would have received from defeating the Drow in combat.
2) The lie is effective and so fully believed that when the Drow return to port they inform everyone of the news and information. Rumors spread through alleyways, sewers, taverns, whispering wind spells, and telepathic links that Elminster and Khelben are aboard a ship in the Akanamere bearing the description of the one your PCs are on.
3) If the ship docks anywhere in Chessenta the party is attacked by a group of well-paid assassins hired by House Karanok, who have long sought to rid the world of wizards--and who have personally set bounties on the heads of Elminster and the Chosen. If the ships comes within any degree of proximity to Thay, they are attacked by the Red Scourge or a re-routed Thayan trading vessel. If the ship does not enter near Thay, then a group of assassins, Thayan Knights, and Red Wizards teleport to the ship and attack the vessel, having used scryingmagic to locate it from afar.
Regardless of what group of foes you throw at the PCs, you are essentially trading one combat encounter for another one. To account for the relative ease of the last encounter, and to represent slightly more elite opponents, increase the encounter level so that it is two effective levels higher than the one they had to face with the Drow Pirates.
* Spoilered for your safety:ShowRow, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a scream!
Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
If you see a spider,
Don't forget to laugh!
Rock, rock, rock your boat,
Madly down the stream.
Watch out, give a shout,
Into the water you go!
Row, row, row your boat,
Quickly down the stream.
Bloodily, bloodily, bloodily, bloodily,
We'll rip out your spleen!
Row, row, row your boat,
Before we take your eye.
Verily, verily, verily, verily,
Now it's time to die!
After hearing about this so-called powerful wizard and weighing the consquences, the drow priestess ordered the attack to go ahead ("We'll murder you quietly." Ramming speed!). So the Beguiler went to Plan B - he summoned a giant monster, in major image form, to scare them off with an Intimidate check.
Cthulhu.
Now I'm the one left quivering in terror as to how sort this one out. :D The added problem is that there's a new PC on the drow ship who needs to be rescued, so fleeing in terror is out of the question for meta reasons. Though shooting Cthulhu like mad until they realise it's an illusion should work, or leaving and returning later more quietly as suggested earlier to get the drop on these troublesome mages. Hmm.
I like your ideas for showing the consequences of these kinds of shenanigans, Simbul. Glibness and major image have been a core tactic for this PC. So having it backfire should be a lot of fun. I think Tchazzar is going to have to investigate (especially after a certain conjured gold dragon was used to scare off and humiliate one of his Blades).
The PC tells me that Elminster and Khelben have been around for centuries and are prominent wizards, and that the drow don't live in complete isolation and have contact with the outside world enough to get such knowledge.
I have to say I agree with that PC. These particular drow sound pretty atypical to begin with.
I think Khelben will really only be well-known in his stomping grounds; the Western Heartlands. Perhaps some of the more in-the-know folks in Cormyr and Sembia have heard of "Waterdeep's Archmage", but thats about it.
And the Zhents, of course.
As for Elminster - he's a legendary figure! I would think he is as well known as Santa Clause is in the RW! Different regions might even have their own names for him (and not all of them complimentary), but I'm sure everyone from the Emperor of Shou-Lung and the High Caliph of Zakhara, right down to Cormyrian Farmer w/pitchfork #2 have heard tales - often exaggerated - of his exploits.
Geez... he even has a 'secret base' off-planet! That means he is probably well-known in Realmspace, too (and even parts of Greyspace and Krynnspace, for goshsakes!)
Elminster is just one of those legendary figures, that some folks occassionally are lucky (or unlucky) enough to meet.
Geez... he even has a 'secret base' off-planet! That means he is probably well-known in Realmspace, too (and even parts of Greyspace and Krynnspace, for goshsakes!)
-And Earth. He's most well known here.
An advisor, a sage... this is an example of how Elminster may be commonly regarded among those who actually know of him, have heard of him, or are aware of a sage/advisor type who currently resides in Shadowdale. And sages and advisors tend to be local knowledge, maybe also knownthroughout a given region of the Realms, and known, in distant lands... either through reputation or through knowing someone who has had direct contact with the master sage Elminster.
In other words, your common Realms folk may know of or about El, or the "less obvious" aspects of the other Chosen -- either by name, reputation, or what your grandmother said she once saw. However, these are details almost entirely based on bards tales or rhymes or myths [especially when you take into consideration the lack of a true and dedicated Faerun-wide communication network], and they are what largely form the basis of most of the "public" knowledge regarding the Chosen and their "day jobs". Not intimate details, and certainly nothing specific, just rumor, hearsay, and idle speculation in the local tavern on a cold and wintry night.
Those novels are not a good example of anything.
-The novels are good examples of how magic and Shadow Weave magic do not interact with each other.
I also think it's important to note just how the people who do know of Elminster... know of him. El being Chosen isn't what most in the Realms would consider 'public knowledge'. Though El is known for other, less obvious, things -- take, for example, this quote from the 1e FRCS:- "For example, there may well be an Elminster the Barber, or Elminster of Waterdeep, but the reference of 'Elminster' (or even the more modest 'Elminster the Sage') refers to the advisor without peer who resides in Shadowdale."
An advisor, a sage... this is an example of how Elminster may be commonly regarded among those who actually know of him, have heard of him, or are aware of a sage/advisor type who currently resides in Shadowdale. And sages and advisors tend to be local knowledge, maybe also knownthroughout a given region of the Realms, and known, in distant lands... either through reputation or through knowing someone who has had direct contact with the master sage Elminster.
Of course, that's 1e, back when Elminster was just a wise sage.
Thanks everyone, I think I'm going to have some delightful repercussions waiting for my PCs when they sail into Cimbar. :D
Currently, the drow are firing madly at the ersatz Cthulhu, distracted whilst the PCs get closer to attack.
For example, there might be a rather more moderate 15th level Elminster who actually works bloody hard to do what he does and really can't solve every little problem in FR, but likes to let his reputation do the work for him. For every Zhentarim mage or Karanok assassin might be skeptical and give it a shot, a bunch of others decide to be more cautious and steer clear.
(Before someone brings up their appearances in novels, consider your average FR novel to be like a bard's tale, a fictionalised account of events that might not have happened exactly as described. Just because it's canon, doesn't mean it's necessarily true.
)-As in on Faerûn? Most stories of them, I'd think, would be akin to tall tales and such, about their exploits, passed on via word of mouth. As you get further from where Elminster and whoever else generally tend to live/operate, the stories will get less factual, and more grandiose, like that telephone game. For example:
In Shadowdale: "Did you hear? An assassin attacked Elminster in his tower, but he transformed into a Dragon, picked the assassin up, and dropped him in the Moonsea!"
In Chult: "Did you hear? That magician Elminster was attacked by an assassin, summoned the Dragons of the Moonsea to aid him in combat, and utterly destroyed his attacker!"
So what would orcs say if an assassin attacked Elminster?
Orc: Did ya hear? That weezard Elmiser wuz attacked by an assassin on our house, but he picked up a spear and killed a dragon from the moonsea.
So what would orcs say if an assassin attacked Elminster?
-Is that the beginning of a joke? What'd the Orc say to Elminster?
-Hmm...I think it'd sound something like that:
"Orgrak fool. Orgrak no stronger than Elminster. Elminster mighty. Elminster have favor of Gruumsh. Orgrak no have favor of Gruumsh. Elminster look at Dragon, and Dragon fly away with tail between it's legs. Orgrak look at Dragon, and Dragon eat Orgrak!"
As far as the 3E era is concerned, Elminster noted somewhere as being one of the most famous (or "infamous") wizards in Faerûn. Therefore his name alone should be recognized by a DC 10 or lower untrained Knowledge check. Conceivably the DC could be increased by 5 if the character making the check is from a region or realm that Elminster has not been commonly heard of, or turned into an automatic success for those regions he has visited often. Moreover, "aid another" bonuses would apply when a knowledge check is made by a group.
As to more detailed lore regarding his powers, capabilities, deeds, or legendary exploits...that is another matter, and would require incrementally higher DC checks in Knowledge (Arcana, History, Local, Religion, etc), Bardic Knowledge, or Gather Information.
A generally uneducated and inexperienced NPC may only know of Elminster as a "mere" wizard, and perhaps view him as no more of a challenge than any other adventurer that may have crossed his path, or simply believe the legends about him to be bardic nonsense. Example: a typical Zhentarim warrior sent to attack Shadowdale.
Conversely, a well-researched loremaster who may be a foe of Elminster or otherwise have once given forethought to possibly crossing his path, might simply see through the blatent lie of the PCs. Namely they might note that Mystra's silver fire elminates any need for sleep, or that as an archmage he has little need to travel by ship. Example: Melegaunt Tanthul
Moreover, simply throwing around the names of powerful archmage has a tendency to attract misfortune. Identifying yourself as an ally or harborer of such well-known personages will in turn attract the attention of their numerous foes and enemies. They might see you as a potential hostage or source of information, or simply strike you down as collateral Likewise, it may cause capricious reprisal from said archmage, specifically when those specific wizards have the power to hear whenever their names are spoken and the words uttered thereafter.
Personally I would handle it in the following steps:
1) The characters succeeds on his bluff. There is no reason to punish a character who has made the deliberate choice to invested in a particular skill like Bluff or a rare niche spell like Glibness. The Drow Pirates fully believe that Khelben and Elminster are on board, and retreat from the vessel with caution. At your discretion award the players 10-50% of the XP they would have received from defeating the Drow in combat.
2) The lie is effective and so fully believed that when the Drow return to port they inform everyone of the news and information. Rumors spread through alleyways, sewers, taverns, whispering wind spells, and telepathic links that Elminster and Khelben are aboard a ship in the Akanamere bearing the description of the one your PCs are on.
3) If the ship docks anywhere in Chessenta the party is attacked by a group of well-paid assassins hired by House Karanok, who have long sought to rid the world of wizards--and who have personally set bounties on the heads of Elminster and the Chosen. If the ships comes within any degree of proximity to Thay, they are attacked by the Red Scourge or a re-routed Thayan trading vessel. If the ship does not enter near Thay, then a group of assassins, Thayan Knights, and Red Wizards teleport to the ship and attack the vessel, having used scryingmagic to locate it from afar.
Regardless of what group of foes you throw at the PCs, you are essentially trading one combat encounter for another one. To account for the relative ease of the last encounter, and to represent slightly more elite opponents, increase the encounter level so that it is two effective levels higher than the one they had to face with the Drow Pirates.
Knowledgeable and sexy.
Marry me!!
---
Regardless, as a I stated before and was backed up on, this should be a non-issue. Especially in the case of drow.
Only Elminster has this 'International Status' (and yes, he is even mentioned several times in Kara-Tur lore), so I certainly wouldn't apply that to other novel characters.
Drizzt is another exception - even though he isn't all that important in the greater scheme of things, a story about a 'good Drow' would spread like Wildfire. It's akin to the U.S. Gov't announcing they've discovered Santa's Clause's factory at the North Pole.
Which is to say, the story would spread, but most people wouldn't believe it.
Denning's depiction of them did not draw from established Realmslore.
That's got to be as close as I'll ever see Old Sage being negative about Realmslore.
But yeah, I always say to just ignore the novels - the game world and the novel world have always been two sepearte animals in my mind.
That's got to be as close as I'll ever see Old Sage being negative about Realmslore.
That's got to be as close as I'll ever see Old Sage being negative about Realmslore.
:P
I usually don't like being negative online about any particular element of Realmslore. Each poster has their own opinions on things, just as I have my own. But in this instance, I just couldn't find any way to reconcile what we learned about the Chosen in those novels, with previously published Realmslore.
And, while we're on the subject, I don't think any faithful Realms scribe should assume the *celebrity status* of the Chosen, as depicted in Troy Denning's "Return of the Archwizards" trilogy, to be the norm. Those novels are not a good example of anything. The author may have had a character [Galaeron] act like the Chosen were celebrities, but he also had many established characters that acted like utter morons. We know from established Realmslore what these characters are like -- Denning's depiction of them did not draw from established Realmslore.
Melegaunt Tanthul is a Loremaster among the Princes of Shade whose magical talents were secondary to his penchant for history and the accumulation of knowledge. One of his purposes in wandering Toril before the Return of the Archwizards was to seek out potential threats to their return, and throughly research ways to prevent any interference from those threats. Having knowledge of the capabilities, reputations, and legends of the Chosen of Mystra was just as important as his research of the Phaerimm or the ruins of Karse, and well within the capabilities of a 20th level character. Clearly he did his research well, and given Elminster's much more (in)famous existence and reputation there is clearly enough information out there for a dedicated researcher to discover and sift through.
Since Galareon absorbed a great deal of Melegaunt's knowledge and consciousness, it more than explains both his knowledge of the weaknesses of the Phaerimm and the Shades, but also his insight into the powers of the Chosen.
As for other groups encountered in the series; Elminster, Khelben, and several of the Seven Sisters can be assumed to have strong ties to the elder elves of the High Forest, Evereska, and Evermeet for numerous reasons in their biographies and worldly adventures. As far as human realms are concerned...Elminster's former apprentice was the Mage-Royal of Cormyr, his grand-daughter is the Steel-Regent, and his great grand-son is the infant king. While those three facts are not common knowledge, they are a reason for Elminster to be more present in that realm than others, and therefore more well known or heard of. Meanwhile, the ties of Khelben and Laeral to Waterdeep or Alustriel to Silverymoon are self evident on their own.
My issues with the Return of the Archwizards sits little in the lore of the Chosen, but moreso in other absurdities, such as:
A) the notion that the only way the Elves could ever slay a Phaerimm is to wait for a Chosen of Mystra to hurl silver fire at it, or get themselves pregnant by some Vaasan barbarian in order to wield some "shadowsword" legacy weapon of his. Whereas, in reality all an elf hero needed to kill a Phaerimm was a comprable ECL, the Greater Spell Penetration feat, Spell Power +X, or a +X silvered abberation bane weapon.
B) the lack of cohesion between the lore/effects/rules of the Shadow Weave as presented in the novel series vs the 3E FR rulebooks. I would imagine this is likely more the fault of a lack of cooperation or direction between the various authors and divisions at WoTC, or the result of working off "early drafts" of what the shadow weave might be like.
C) the need to focus on what the Chosen of Mystra were doing, when in fact the advent of the mass-release of Phaerimm and rogue Wizard-Weather across the realms was more than enough reason to explain them out of the story, as they likely would have had to deal with problems in their own realms of influence.
As far as human realms are concerned...Elminster's former apprentice was the Mage-Royal of Cormyr, his grand-daughter is the Steel-Regent, and his great grand-son is the infant king.
I just would like to point out that Ed has said (and Sage can probably pull the quote) that when Filfaeril and Laspeera said they were "daughters of Elminster", they did not mean that literally--they meant they are descendents of Elminster, most likely generations removed.
"Narnra is a “direct” daughter of Elminster; Laspeera and Filfaeril were bending the truth a little to make her feel better when they spoke thus: they’re among Elminster’s many grand and great-grand, and great-great-grand (and so on) -children."
...
We also know Elminster has sons... some of which are still alive. Ed's only briefly mentioned them in his replies. I keep meaning to ask him for more on them.
Indeed. Filfaeril and Laspeera aren't literally daughters of Elminster. As Ed said:-
"Narnra is a “direct” daughter of Elminster; Laspeera and Filfaeril were bending the truth a little to make her feel better when they spoke thus: they’re among Elminster’s many grand and great-grand, and great-great-grand (and so on) -children."
If this is the case, there really was no a point in including that entire dialog sequence in the novel at all, let alone using the precise, matter of fact, and unambiguous wording in which they were declared his "daughters" rather than merely his "descendants".
Ed really should have omitted it from the novel entirely if he was having second thoughts on the idea or did not want to fully commit to the notion of these women being his daughters. As far as the central plot was concerned there was no need for it to be declared at all, and was largely a throw away line for any random reader, and a gem at the end of the tunnel for any loyal fan who finished it.
Including a pointed lore "shocker" like that at the end of a published mass-market novel, only to contradict or back-pedal away from it in a comparatively less-read medium like a message board, is a bit unfair.
Again, though, this is a bit of a nitpick, and I see where the Simbul is coming from. Just pointing out that Ed might not have necessarily "backpedaled" from anything he wrote.
Its really hard to try and remember how I 'felt' in retrospect, since I now accept Ed's answer as canon.
However, IIRC, it took me by surprise as well (but not an unpleasant one - I thought the idea of all these 'brothers and sisters' running around out there wiithout knowing they're even related a bit... disturbing).
So, although I was surprised by Ed's statement which contridicted the book, I was happy with it - descendents all over the place in regards to a thousand-year-old man is very believable, but children coming out of the woodwork all under everyone's nose is a bit far-fetched. If it was a 'back-peddle', then I'm glad he had the moment of clarity.