I was interested in filling in some of the details about Shadowfell in the realms wiki site, but have run into irreconcileable differences between the 2008 Manual of the Planes and the 4E Campaign Guide. Mainly due to the Campaign Guide claming that Shar "created" the Shadowfell *after* the Spellplague. Now I can understand that things are different in the FR, but even the campaign guide alludes to the same brimming and even ancient population described in the Manual of the Planes. It clams that the Dark Ones (also mentioned in the MotP) are Netherese and *native* to the plane.
Now even if you try and work around it by saying that they lived in either the Negative plane or the Shadow plane that Shar used to create the Shadowfell, it hasnt been around even remotely long enough to have natives, nor the large amounts of lingering undead who dont feel like passing onto the Fugue.
So basically, the Campaign guide is trying to claim that Shar created the Shadowfell, but fails to alter any of the details enough for it to work. The only attempt made is to claim that it is at once "old and new" but this quite vague. Is FR trying to claim that Shadow was the name of the Shadowfell in the Manual and the FR Shadowfell is actually a different Shadowfell called the same but made from the Shadow (MotP: Shadowfell) and therefore the MotP is actaully outdated? If so, why couldnt they have called Shar's Shadowfell something different and just said that the Shadow plane and the MotP Shadowfell were the same???
the 4e manual of planes is the version of the quai setting or sandox if you will of the Points of Light.
as of which whatever it says in the MP ignore it
As I read FRCG page 69, it seems to say that Toril always had the Plane of Shadow (i.e., in 2e, 3e, etc.). After the Spellplague, Shar took that plane and morphed it into the Shadowfell. So the present-day FR Plane of Shadow incorporates the "energy of death" and has been dubbed "the Shadowfell" by the Mistress of the Night, but otherwise is essentially the same. Also the Fugue Plane remains the destination of souls, but these souls must now traverse the Plane of Shadow (i.e., the Shadowfell) to get there. Faerunians might refer to the place as the Plane of Shadow, the Shadowfell, or Shadow.
The "native" Dark Ones, then, would simply be natives of the Plane of Shadow (which, again, was newly twisted and renamed by Shar into the Shadowfell), right?? I guess I don't see any contradictions in there, but I may be missing something.
The Plane of Shadows true age is unknown. Perhaps it was the very first plane to come into being spontaneaously after the configuration of the great wheel cosmology was made.
In the Shadowplane the very first sentients took form as the thirteen Shadow beings called the Shadevari Princes. Later, after the creation of Toril, Shar might have learned under these powerfull primordial beings to understand deeper darkness.
The Netherese have had an enclave called Thultanthar and its archmage Thantul went to the Shadowplane right before Karsus' Folly in the Year of Sundered Webs (-339 DR). When they returned to Toril they deduced they had been attacked and they fled right back to the Shadowplane. There they soon converted to Shar to become more adapted to the plane by discovering the ritual to morph into Shades. The Shadow Princes of Thultanthar are the sons of Telamont Thantul and not to be confused with the primordial 13 Shadevari lords.
Thanks, that is very informative. I think I understand better. So the Shadowfell is not seperate from the Shadow Plane. I guess I interperated it as the Shadow Plane and the Shadowfell were two seperate planes.
In my own FR campaign, I like to think of the Shadowfell and the Plane of Shadow as being connected, but not necessarily the same place - sort of like the deep ocean and the ocean's shore - which I guess would make the beach Faerun.
The Plane of Shadows would be the extreme depths of the ocean - the ocean at its most primal and dangerous, a place totally alien to landdwellers, but you can still go there if you are prepared.
The Shdowfel is like the shallows next to the beach, still a part of the ocean but the part that is most interactive with the shore (Faerun). You can still get in over your head, but it's a bit less alien than the Plane of Shadows.
And moving between the mundane world and the Shadowfel, is like that interaction of the ocean with the shore - where you can get things washing up on the beach, or find yourself washed out with the tide.
Sounds like as good an analogy as any..... Beats any that I could come up with.
The Netherese have had an enclave called Thultanthar and its archmage Thantul went to the Shadowplane right before Karsus' Folly in the Year of Sundered Webs (-339 DR). When they returned to Toril they deduced they had been attacked and they fled right back to the Shadowplane. There they soon converted to Shar to become more adapted to the plane by discovering the ritual to morph into Shades. The Shadow Princes of Thultanthar are the sons of Telamont Thantul and not to be confused with the primordial 13 Shadevari lords.
-There are, "oficially" three different versions of the story, all of which conflict with each other in some way, shape or form. The Shadow Enclave first entered into the Plane of Shadows either right before Karsus' Folly (N:EoM), or during it, as the enclave was literally beginning to fall (RoS).
I hope they decide to cut there losses and abandon this story arc.
I dislike how they became the 'Boogie Woogie Man' in the Realms in 3E.
When they become just about the only thing WotC would use, well that gets old.
What was the word we used to use around here, Shadowcrap...
For clarification: Most Shadar-kai in FR are formerly human Netherese, and the Shadar-kai transformation didn't start until quite recently. It says that most Netherese Shadar-kai are third generation in the current year, but not all Shadar-kai are part of Netheril, some having broke off when Netheril was still in Shadow.