On the front cover and inside the book it says 'an adventure designed for PCs level 4-7' (even mentioning Level 3!) and that they will advance from 4th to maybe 8th Level. But the Encounters don't fit this...
Now it might just be a confusion of the Rules on my part, but surely 6th, 7th and 8th level Encounters are ridiculously high for a 4th Level party. Looking at the first battle, my characters would probably be entirely wiped out.
Do I need to level adjust?
Am i missing something?
I love the adventure, but if it's for 4th Levels why make the Encounters so incredibly powerful - and if I have to level adjust (a laborious pain in the neck), why make them different to what the book states the adventure should be?
Also, does that mean the story XP awards and treasure need to be changed? Or if I wait for my PCs to level up more to be able to handle the Encounters, will the Story XP awards and treasure be wrong for them? :P
Thanks
I am glad you liked this dog of an adventure but I was pretty dissappointed with it. I didn't even bother touch the other two. I have always wanted to run a COrmyr game and I had hoped this was a supplement and adventure all in one but it wasn't. Perhaps that is what soured me. I am also bothered that every threat in FR seems to deal with the religions. Arn't their any villains doing bad things to increase their own power and not their churches? Grrrrrr! ;)
If you like this look at Red Hand of Doom. It was done by Rich Baker and can be used in any setting with a little help and is about the Cult of Tiamat. Grrr, would that be a religion themed adventure? Damn and it is not from FR. Maybe it is not just a FR thing.
I remember only one or tow occasions when the situation was critical. For most part it was quite manageable with some planing. (one memorable critical occasion was when all of our fighters were disabled and only the wizard and the sorcerer kept on fighting against fighters, and yes at the start we had a sorcerer and a wizard).
But keep in mind, out group is 6 people strong! This tips the balance quite in our favour. An encounter level shows the difficulty for an average party of 4 adventurers.
The encounters BEGIN at like level 6, 7 and 8, and move on to 9 and 10. I don't think there's one that's lower than EL 6 whatsoever.
For instance, I'm looking at the first battle right now -
-EL 7
-Ambush
-A Human Fighter has +12 to hit with a +1 Greatsword for 2d6+7 damage (9-19 damage!). He also has nearly 50 hp.
That would almost imperatively wipe out my whole party (there is also a Level 4 Rogue and Bat Swarm to contend with). Even if they did win, I doubt they could be that incredibly lucky in each and every battle that comes along (they would need to be to survive at all).
And I also have an extraordinary party - 5 characters, a Paladin which has 18 Str and a very high chance of hitting and some people with pretty above average hp.
I like the adventure because it fits what my PCs wanted from the game when we first discussed the Forgotten Realms world, and is also linked to what they had already done -for instance, I had already made up this concept of 'Shadow Weavers' (Basically exactly the same as Shadow Adepts) using an alternative magic force, and had just happened to link them with the Deity Shar without even knowing that the whole thing actually already existed (in fact it was bloody scary) in FR. I've had them clear out the Sewers of my town (which were dangerously close to an underground tomb), investigate an ancient monastery and now, discover the mysteries of a tiny village secluded in a thick wood; leading them to a sealed cave once the home of fanatic cultists and linked to a forgotten catacombs.
(It's an undead-focused campaign
)But I just thought the adventure would follow on nicely, seeing they had pretty much cleared their surrounding area, and would like to move on to the nearest city.
It's just a shame the Encounters are being a pain.
I recently DM'ed 'Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde' an D&D generic adventure with tips to tie in into the Forgotten Realms. It's a dungeon crawl.
At the beginning of the adventure my players were nearly killed several times, and now nearing the end of the adventure my players are too strong for the written encounters.
In both situations I just decided the damage some monsters made. In the beginning I made the monsters weaker and now I make them stronger, and give them more hit points to at least be some challenge. I never let the players know what was written. I improvised as I needed it to be in every situation. I even killed a player in an encounter even though I did favour the players. I just didn't know he was so low an hitpoints already.
DM'ing is all about fun for the players AND the DM. I try to make it a fun time for both parties. Mind you, I do not make the game too easy. I only adjust as I see fit for the situation. Sometimes harder, sometimes weaker.
I saw level adjustment etc. as perhaps boring, but I value your (I presume) experience (I'm 17, though been playing for two years without any pre-set material) and opinions on enjoyment of it...
I just don't get why I should have to Level adjust when they make and state the adventure is for a level 4 party, yet put the encounters so high I'm forced to change them dramatically - like I feel a little cheated.
Have you found the same thing with other pre-made adventures? Do you always pretty much always need to level adjust? Thanks ;)
I'm just annoyed because I shouldn't have to level adjust - the adventure should, technically (though personally it doesn't bother me as much as perhaps others) be ready to go when you get it. If it states its for a Level 4 party, why the heck isn't it?
Just knock off a bunch of hit-points toward the beginning, and add a bunch toward the end. If you've been making your own material, this is still way simpler then creating everything from scratch.
As far as those three adventures go, though, I wouldn't personally bother with them, but thats just me (I despise Shadow-Fluff).
Rauric if you want a solid Cormyr adventure pick up Four from Cormyr. It is 4 adventures in one which can be connected or run seperately. I ran 2 of them and they were quite good. In one the characters invade a library but I swapped the villians in the module out for an all Dragon adventuring party. Fun stuff :D
I bought it but that was years ago when I was a novice GM. At the time I didn't think I could rework it to fit my needs, now I might be able to get some ideas from it.
Probably best to split the level range down the middle and figure that's the general level it was based around.
That's true, though it does seem to say in the Adventure Synopsis that the party will start this adventure at Level 4, and advance to Level 7 - surely therefore, the encounters should be progressively tougher, not just impossible :P Haha it just bewilders me a little that's all - Yes perhaps I should expect some Level adjustment if it doesn't fit occasionally... but it doesn't fit at all, it's far too high. I've spoken to one of my PCs about it and told him the stats I quoted above ^^ and he protested that they would all be eliminated.
Has anybody else actually played this adventure? If so I would value your input - Was it good? And was this issue a problem?
That being said, I'm not too worried about this module. I actually don't think I'll need to modify or adjust it very much. It's my understanding that a particular encounter level is designed for a party of 4 adventures of that level. More importantly though, it is my understanding that each such encounter is (theoretically) supposed to take up about 1/4 of the party's daily "resources" (i.e. spells/powers/hp/etc). With that in mind, a 4th level party should therefore be capable of handling a higher level encounter, it will just (again theoretically) take a little more of their resources. For example they should be able to handle a 6th level encounter without too much trouble, so long as they play it smart.
Also, do keep in mind that the first encounter in the book is a contingent encounter that will only happen if the PCs take a particular course of action. The remainder of the first chapter encounters are much more in line with a 4th level party.
Those are fair points, Bruin, and I feel much more at ease now.
So, how did your PCs get to Level 4 (just out of interest), are your PCs beginning at 4th Level?
And what do you like about the adventure?
*snip to off-topic*
I am also bothered that every threat in FR seems to deal with the religions. Arn't their any villains doing bad things to increase their own power and not their churches? Grrrrrr! ;)
Yeah, because if history has taught us anything, it's that religion is a poor motivator that no one would ever use to increase their own power...
:rolleye2:
I'm currently running this adventure as a DM with 5-6 PCs. They are getting close to the end (currently at the very beginning of chapter 5). I think everyone in my group is really enjoying it so far. Some of them just leveled to 7th lvl, and I expect them to level again before the adventure ends
I don't think you should have too much trouble with the set Encounter Levels. The EL's get higher as the PC's gain levels in the adventure, and overall, it's pretty balanced. No need to take away story XP. I actually cheated my group out of some XP at one point in the game because I thought they were gaining too fast (even with 5-6 PCs instead of 4) and had to keep things balanced.
My group did not have any trouble with the first encounter in the book. That encounter actually happened after the first dungeon was pretty much sacked and at least half the party leveled to 5th lvl. The trap misfired, and the Halfling wasn't dealing too much damage, so the group was able to overwhelm the fighter without too much trouble. Our cleric was definitely on heal duty though.
I'm a bit scared about how the PC's are going to deal with some of the end encounters. The dragon attacking them on the rope bridges between encounters should be rough. I can see at least one of them getting turned to stone by the Gorgon. The book says the PC's can mend that with scrolls in the Black Guard's room, but the BG is a CR 10. He's the biggest CR in the game and PC's may already be worn down (and some turned to stone) by the time they encounter him. There is a serious risk of a TPK here. Then on top of that they got to fight a Mindflayer. I'm not sure where they will be able to rest before they have to take on the Despayr who has the home court advantage, has impeded their favorite schools of magic, and has the shadow shard at his advantage. Some divine intervention may be in order for them to survive.
The thing you got to watch out for with this adventure though is that just about all the monster stats are completely screwed up. Whoever did the QC for this adventure should be fired because we're talking over 90% of the NPC's here. Some of the mistakes are just plain obvious too, like the dragon doesn't have any sorcerer spells listed, or the fighter at the end of the adventure should be CR10 instead of CR9 because he has the Dark template added. Be prepared to rework the NPCs or look up online the correct stats because the balance of the encounters may depend upon it.
The only problem I can see with the dungeon, is yes the PCs can probably take on those encounters without dying, but is it not an extremely hard place to rest at - and if the return to Wheloon proper to rest, the book states that some foes will be replaced by new ones (based upon the length of time the Temple is left alone for)... Although they would just level up quicker haha...
thanks for your input Laerekh, I appreciate it. It's good to know your PCs did ok with it. Did YOU enjoy it?
The only problem I can see with the dungeon, is yes the PCs can probably take on those encounters without dying, but is it not an extremely hard place to rest at - and if the return to Wheloon proper to rest, the book states that some foes will be replaced by new ones (based upon the length of time the Temple is left alone for)... Although they would just level up quicker haha...
****SPOILERS****** PC'S DON'T READ********
I'm lovin it!
The last few sessions my PC's have played like pros. It's like shedding a tear cause your kids are all grown up. They just got the clues that piece this whole campaign story together and now they realize that they are heroes in an epic battle between good and evil gods to save magic on Faerun. They got so much loot right now, and want nothing more than a way back to Wheloon, but they know they are too far in to go back now and the mission must come first. Ah, how I enjoy watching them suffer so....
Secretly my goal is to make sure everyone is having fun in the game, but I've had some great opportunites to be the Big Bad Evil DM in the game. I just introduced Despayr in the last session in a big way. She just flew off to her lair with one of the Halfling PC's. Now the PC's are amped to follow her into the Dark Rift and go kick her butt (I changed "him" to a "her" in my game).
The way back is going to have some adventure involved. I got to do the Vast Swamp on the Shadow plane much better justice! It's suppose to be the most vile area of Cormyr, and it's the Shadow Plane to boot! So a few tough monsters are definitely in store for them on the way back. When they get back to Wheloon, they are going to try and claim the Temple of Mystra as their own to use as a base of operations. Unfortunately for them, they are going to find out that Kevrin has claimed squaters rights on the estate by Cormyrian Law for being the last surviving employee there and proving that he knew nothing about Shar and Cyric's involvment with the temple. This is not to be a BBE DM, but to lead them into their next adventure before the Shadowdale book. I found in a Dungeon magazine a short Cormyrian adventure where the PC explore a Netheriese portal nexus in north-western Cormyr and the government helps them rebuild it to use as their base and guard post. I think the guard post has a very convenient location for the overall campaign, and having a portal nexus that leads to locations all over Faerun should be a much cooler base of operations for a group of adventurers than an abandoned temple to Mystra.
Some critics of the adventure say there isn't a genuine Forgotten Realms feel to this adventure beyond gods and location. I completely disagree. I've been able to use everything in the book, and then add things from other FR sources/novels flawlessly. My campaign, and this adventure in particular, definitely has a FR feel to it. If you are running this adventure I highly recommend downloading or picking up Volo's Guide to Cormyr. The extra detail and maps on Wheloon made the city one of the richest environments I've ever been able to add to my campaign.
My only big complaints are all they typos in the adventure book, especially with the stat blocks. I also wish they would reference which D&D source books things came from. For instance, I have no idea what book the Staff of the Shadow War came from. The second half of the adventure has become so hack'n'slash to the point that I'm definitely looking forward to when this game becomes more dynamic and story driven again. But overall, I think it's solid and everyone in my group, including me, is having fun with it.
I ran it a few years back. My characters never did much with it though after clearing it out. I tied it into another adventure that I ran involving the Cult of the Dragon in Sembia.
And thank you for the tips; Volo's Guide to Cormyr sounds incredibly useful... But obviously it's not 3rd Edition - does that give any problems with outdated info and rules etc, or is it information that's long-lasting and still relevant to date? If not, are there any more recent books with details about Cormyr, anyone?
I'm glad the adventure has a Forgotten Realms feel to it aswell because that sets the scene nicely and makes the adventure more enjoyable. It was nice actually because one of my PCs randomly bought it for me, saying it looked good
May I ask how you got your PCs to Level 4 to partake in the adventure? Your campaign sounds good
thanks for your input once again Laerekh, it's very helpful. It's good to know this adventure is going well, and that everybody's enjoying it
And thank you for the tips; Volo's Guide to Cormyr sounds incredibly useful... But obviously it's not 3rd Edition - does that give any problems with outdated info and rules etc, or is it information that's long-lasting and still relevant to date? If not, are there any more recent books with details about Cormyr, anyone?
I'm glad the adventure has a Forgotten Realms feel to it aswell because that sets the scene nicely and makes the adventure more enjoyable. It was nice actually because one of my PCs randomly bought it for me, saying it looked good
May I ask how you got your PCs to Level 4 to partake in the adventure? Your campaign sounds good
There are no real stats listed in Volo's Guide to Cormyr so don't worry about it being 2nd ed. It's all lore, Ed Greenwood style. Some of it is out of date, such as King Azoun has died since then, but just about all of it is still relevant and there is no other sources out there to outdate it. You'll find some slight changes such as the population of Wheloon has increased, and I remember one of the taverns is now run by the owner's daughters and they don't water down the ale like their father did. Everything else you can keep the same. Plus you can use Volo's Guide to give insight to some of the surrounding cities/town on the Way of the Manticore such as Monksblade if they happen to think about traveling that way. You'll notice the game developers used Volo's Guide as part of their research when recreating Wheloon and the Vast Swamp.
My PC's will one day be proud to say they started this campaign at level 1. I ran the Sunless Citadel adventure, and placed the town the adventure is set in somewhere in southern Cormyr between Suzail and Wheloon. Search up some of my old post if you want to see some of the stuff I added to that adventure and how it updates from 3.0 to 3.5. Sunless Citadel ran from levels 1-4. I thought it was a pretty good starting adventure, especially since half my PC's at the table were brand new to playing D&D. The adventure is solid and I was able to add things to it that made it even more better and intergrate it into my FR setting. Once the adventure concluded, the PC's made their way to Suzail where I did a whole lot of world building for them before their Harper contact introduced them with the letter from Tunaster Dranik indicating that he needed help in Wheloon.
Ah it's great to find somebody else who is preparing this adventure
Those are fair points, Bruin, and I feel much more at ease now.
So, how did your PCs get to Level 4 (just out of interest), are your PCs beginning at 4th Level?
And what do you like about the adventure?
Had a great time last night starting the adventure...These PCs are all newly created PCs, but based on existing PCs that we all played up to 4th level under Living Greyhawk over the last several months (i.e. similar race/class combinations, but without the Living System and now set in FR). To be honest I haven't really done much with FR since 2nd edition, so had a lot of reading to do to bring things up to speed with recent changes to the Realms.
I really agree with Laerekh's comment about using the Volo's Guide. I still have my copies of all of the Guides from 2nd ed. and I found a lot of really useful and interesting info about Wheloon and the surrounding area in the Guide to Cormyr. In fact, the Characters have only been to the Temple itself once (twice for one character) during this first 6 hour session. We have been having a lot of fun just exploring the town and investigating the "strange goings on at the new temple" through the eyes and ears of the town's citizens.
Starting next session they are planning on going to the Temple proper to investigate a little more and possibly to take part in the "ritual". I'm excited to see how this playes out.
As a group we purchased all three adventures - Cormyr, Shadowdale and Anarauch. I am running Cormyr, another guy is going to run Shadowdale and we will figure out what to do about the last one. Our biggest concern there is that Cormyr adventure says it goes up to 7-8 level, but Shadowdale adventure starts at 9. Guess we'll have to throw in a filler adventure before taking that one on.
--Bruin
Thanks a lot for your help guys. I'll get a copy of Volo's asap. My PCs are nearing the end of the current adventure after last saturday's session, so i better get going on my research haha - Though of course, things will be easier with an in-depth pre-prepared adventure to play. It should be a great experience for me actually, as it likely offers a level of depth I hadn't included so far. Hopefully it will improve me as a DM. Roll on the summer ;) Thanks again to Laerekh and Bruin
****SPOILERS BELOW***** PC's DON'T READ******
[SNIP]
The thing you got to watch out for with this adventure though is that just about all the monster stats are completely screwed up. Whoever did the QC for this adventure should be fired because we're talking over 90% of the NPC's here. Some of the mistakes are just plain obvious too, like the dragon doesn't have any sorcerer spells listed, or the fighter at the end of the adventure should be CR10 instead of CR9 because he has the Dark template added. Be prepared to rework the NPCs or look up online the correct stats because the balance of the encounters may depend upon it.
****SPOILERS BELOW***** PC's DON'T READ******
As for why Despayr doesn't have sorcerer spells, that's explained in the dragon's background given in the book. The dragon was born crippled, basically, and lacked a bunch of abilities black dragons normally have. The dragon came to worship Shar because she granted it new abilities to compensate for some of the abilities it lost by birth defect. (In other words, the dragon is non-standard to lower its CR for the adventure.)
Currently running this adventure as well. My party is just outside the temple of Chonis right now in Chapter 2.
My party didn't trigger the events for that encounter with Smile and the other guy and the bat swarm in Wheloon so I have no idea how that would play out. The party, as went into the temple, was level 4 and 5. There were no casualties, though I was concerned enough during the battle with the shadow elemental that I had the Mystra statue come alive as suggested. It turned out to be unnecessary though, as it got maybe two swings in on the enemies before they were defeated. The party druid made use of Flame Sphere and a spell to heat metal during the battle with the level 8 cleric and the displacer serpents. The party doesn't know what "Move Silently" means and open doors with Strength checks, so they never get surprise on their side. They set-off the trap on the door that causes enemies on the other side to move to encounter them in the first room. I even considered adding extra forces to that encounter but ultimately decided against it.
The worst fight so far has been the one with the otyugh. The barbarian attempted to charge across the wet bridge at the shadow guards, slipped, fell in the water, and spent most of the combat grappling the otyugh in the water. (I really wish they gave stats for attacking otyugh tentacles either in that book or in the Monster Manual entry for otyugh, but no, that would be too easy. At least grell tentacles are stated in Lords of Madness so that won't be a problem again in Chapter 2.) The barbarian made an intimidate check against the last surviving shadow guard and the party managed to subdue him without fighting. (Which put me on the spot since the adventure says the shadow guards fight to the death.)
I kind of play a revolving door campaign so I just had a new player join for the start of chapter 2 (a level 4 gnome sorcerer) and I'm trying to figure out how to get the archivist back to the party since they already set-out into the wilderness and he hasn't been with them since they first arrived in Wheloon about four sessions ago. The archivist is, understandably, reluctant to go anywhere dangerous by himself so I suppose he'll have to meet a friendly NPC ally to help him catch up. He won't go up to the temple by himself and I just need him to go somewhere to find-out the rest of the party has already left without him.
I think I'm going to detour the party on a side quest in the Vast Swamp once they get there, so I'm contemplating lowering XP gain so they won't be overpowered when they come back to the main story, but so far I haven't felt that the adventure was to overpowering. In fact, if anything those shadow guards die way too easily. (I may not be using HiPS enough.)
Now, if I could just figure out how to get the fighter to develop a personality... But that's for another thread.
I need to get The Lords of Madness book - tell me, is it worthwhile? Which are the coolest Monster books?
I noticed that if you play with a group of 4 PCs, you should get just enough xp to gain 1 lv per chapter. This means that when you start the final chapter, you would be 8th lv, and might even reach lv9 just before you fight the end boss (assuming you are very thorough).
I run a group of 4-6 PC's at any given game. Most of my group just leveled up to 7th level and are at the very beginning of chapter 5. I can only think of 2 encounters the PC's missed in the game. But I also added a couple random encounters in the Vast Swamp that were not written in the book. On the days I had 5 or 6 PC's I'd sometimes add a monster or two to the battles to balance out the challenge, but sometimes I didn't and the encounters were still challenging enough to be fun. A couple times I've skimped the PC's on some XP to keep them from getting overpowered too quickly in respect to the enemies they face. They might even level again before the final showdown with Despayr.
****SPOILERS BELOW****
And on a side note, having Despayr performing random hit-and-run attacks on my PC's just to pester them, and learn their tactics, is sooo much fun!
I think the dragon is going to take out the rope bridge to the cabin next (while the PC's are on it), just because the PC's have had one too many cozy pit stops in that cabin. I want to make it harder for them to leave and let them know they are not safe resting anywhere in the Black Rift. Plus the more I pester them with Despayr, the more they want to kill her. My players know they are getting close to the final battle, it's getting really rough on them. It's a pretty intense feeling at my table right now and I think everyone is pretty stoked on the way the adventure is shaping up.After reading the plotline though, and IMO seeing how badly arranged and structured the books is, I'm not planning on running it anytime soon.
I didn't care too much for the format either, but I'm getting used to it. Esp. now with 4E.
I think it just takes some practice.
:D
There's a real story underlying everything with enough meat to it to give players something to focus on.
But yeah players can take off on these pretty easily at the start.
Even though it has a fixed timeline, I'd put the Shadowdale module firmly in the collection camp. The first and third books aren't as bad IMO.
In T2 there is mentioned a guard named Thendric that imparts some info. This npc isnt mentioned as part of the encounter section at all. There are 6 guard npcs, but the encounter only lists 5. Did I miss his stat box somewhere and his info? Shan Thar mentions him and the guard post also lists him as residing there. Is there a fix or do I just fix it on my own?
Just prepping up this campaign and have taken much of the info you guys have posted into my notes. I have a small question in the beginning ( may have missed some errata about it ):
In T2 there is mentioned a guard named Thendric that imparts some info. This npc isnt mentioned as part of the encounter section at all. There are 6 guard npcs, but the encounter only lists 5. Did I miss his stat box somewhere and his info? Shan Thar mentions him and the guard post also lists him as residing there. Is there a fix or do I just fix it on my own?
In my game, I assumed it was a mistake and I just replaced Thendric with Kevrin. When the PC's spent the 3 days and nights in the temple earning Mystra's Sacred Trust, it was safe to assume that within that time they would eventually talk to at least one of the guards stationed there. So the first guard they talked to got named Thendric. I gave him the same NPC stats as the other guards.
In my game, I assumed it was a mistake and I just replaced Thendric with Kevrin. When the PC's spent the 3 days and nights in the temple earning Mystra's Sacred Trust, it was safe to assume that within that time they would eventually talk to at least one of the guards stationed there. So the first guard they talked to got named Thendric. I gave him the same NPC stats as the other guards.
See, i went a completely different way making Thendric a crusader 2 of Shar and the captain of the temple guard. He knows what goes on and is fully devoted to Shar's cause.
here's his stats below:
Show
Thendric; CR 2
Male Tethyrian human crusader 2 (Shar)
NE Medium humanoid
Init +1; Senses Listen +0, Spot +0
Languages Chondathan, Common
**********************************************************
AC 19, touch 11, flat-footed 16
(+6 armor, +2 shield, +1 dex)
hp 16 (2 HD)
Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +3
**********************************************************
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares); base 30 ft.
Melee mwk longsword +5 (1d8+2/19-20) or
Melee dagger +4 (1d4+2/19-20)
Ranged mwk shortbow +4 (1d6/x3)
Base Atk +2; Grp +4
Atk Options furious counterstrike, steely resolve 5
Combat Gear 2 potions of cure light wounds
**********************************************************
Maneuvers and Stances Known (IL 2nd):
Stances-martial spirit (1st), stonefoot stance (1st)
Strikes-crusaders strike (1st)*, charging minotaur (1st)*, leading the attack (1st)*, stone bones (1st)*, vanguard strike (1st)*
Disciplines: Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, White Raven
* Readied maneuver
**********************************************************
Abilities Str 15, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 17
Feats Cosmopolitan, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (longsword)
Skills Balance +4 (-2 in armor), Bluff +6, Diplomacy +7, Gather Information +5, Intimidate +6, Jump +4 (-2 in armor), Knowledge (religion) +1, Martial Lore +1, Ride +2, Sense Motive +2
Possessions masterwork longsword, masterwork splint mail, masterwork heavy steel shield, dagger, masterwork shortbow with 20 arrows
Thendric; CR 2
Male Tethyrian human crusader 2 (Shar)
NE Medium humanoid
Init +1; Senses Listen +0, Spot +0
Languages Chondathan, Common
**********************************************************
AC 19, touch 11, flat-footed 16
(+6 armor, +2 shield, +1 dex)
hp 16 (2 HD)
Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +3
**********************************************************
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares); base 30 ft.
Melee mwk longsword +5 (1d8+2/19-20) or
Melee dagger +4 (1d4+2/19-20)
Ranged mwk shortbow +4 (1d6/x3)
Base Atk +2; Grp +4
Atk Options furious counterstrike, steely resolve 5
Combat Gear 2 potions of cure light wounds
**********************************************************
Maneuvers and Stances Known (IL 2nd):
Stances-martial spirit (1st), stonefoot stance (1st)
Strikes-crusaders strike (1st)*, charging minotaur (1st)*, leading the attack (1st)*, stone bones (1st)*, vanguard strike (1st)*
Disciplines: Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, White Raven
* Readied maneuver
**********************************************************
Abilities Str 15, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 17
Feats Cosmopolitan, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (longsword)
Skills Balance +4 (-2 in armor), Bluff +6, Diplomacy +7, Gather Information +5, Intimidate +6, Jump +4 (-2 in armor), Knowledge (religion) +1, Martial Lore +1, Ride +2, Sense Motive +2
Possessions masterwork longsword, masterwork splint mail, masterwork heavy steel shield, dagger, masterwork shortbow with 20 arrows
So after a 3 week hiatus, my group finally fought their way to Despayr's lair, and oh was it glorious. They left off in the demon's lair with the giant floating steps and were at about 10-15% fighting strength. They were eager for finding a place to rest before taking on the dragon but didn't want to take the dangerious risk of jumping and climbing up the series of steps to get to the rope bridge leading out. So the halfling sneak in the group decides to scout down the the southwestern cavern tunnel in search for safety. When he got to where the cave tunnel opened up, he could see cages lining the walls. A captive in one of the cages saw the sneak and mouthed to him "Save Me!". The dragon saw the captive motion to someone in the cave, but by that time the halfling would have been noticed, he was ghost, running back to the group. The dragon laughs loud enough for the halfling to hear her, knowing that someone had just invaded her lair, and bounded down the northern cavern. Puzzled as to why the dragon went another way, the PCs run back down the southwest cavern and regroup in the dragon's lair. They spend a short amount of time observing the caged captives and the unwinding weave in the center of the lair before Despayr showed up out of the cavern they had just emerged from taunting them that there is no escape. I didn't even have to have them roll against the dragon's frightful presence check because the PC's started running away scared up the northern cavern all on their own. The chase was on. They run into the skull lit library, found that Despayr had cut down the rope bridges leading out of the spire. The next several rounds were reminiscent of a Scooby Doo cartoon where you see a cat and mouse game of Despayr chasing small groups of PCs back and forth between the 3 rooms in the spire, while the flaming skulls idly sit and watch everyone run back and forth past them. Once the PCs realized there was no way they could outrun the dragon, and that they couldn't escape, they decided they had to make a stand. At this time they had actually haphazardly flanked the dragon within one of the cavern tunnels on either side. The wizard clogs up 40ft of the tunnel in front of the dragon with his wand of web (the only magic he had left available to use) while the paladin and rogue started working on the dragon's backside. I ruled the tunnels too narrow for the dragon the turn 180 around in, so the dragon had to fight her way forward through the webs, fending off the flanking attackers with her tail. When she emerged from the tunnel of webs, she came face to face with a druid who, with the help of the cleric and wizard, had spent a few rounds to cast some buffs and drink a couple potions. This juggernaut of a druid comes forth, absorbes the dragon's taunts and breath weapon, then issued a mighty oath to his god Mielikki, before bashing the dragon's brains out. It was an epic battle. All the PC's (barely) survived, with pretty much no abilities left in them. The good gods are happy, the evil gods sad. Now the long march back to Wheloon begins....
All the PC's (barely) survived, with pretty much no abilities left in them.
-That's how a good boss battle should go.
-That's how a good boss battle should go.
Yeah, if you're a PC.
Honestly, I was ready to hand out a TPK when the PC's were doing nothing but running away senselessly. Glad they finally pulled it together so I didn't have to become a mean nasty DM.
Honestly, I was ready to hand out a TPK when the PC's were doing nothing but running away senselessly. Glad they finally pulled it together so I didn't have to become a mean nasty DM.
-Yuck, killing PCs.
-I'd never kill PCs in just some ordinary battle. It's counterproductive.
I agree with that
But I've haven't DMed yet, so...I agree with that
I don't necessarily.
Sometimes a TPK can be a memorable, "Let's not make that mistake next time, OK guys?" learning experience for a group of players.
Sometimes it's a lesson for DMs as well, on when to let the players suffer the consequences and when to spend their Get Out Of Jail Free card for them.
Which reminds me: That's one thing I don't like about the 4E DMG that I've been itching to talk about. That is, it encourages DMs to spoon-feed their players a little too much.
But that's for another thread on another day.
Sometimes a TPK can be a memorable, "Let's not make that mistake next time, OK guys?" learning experience for a group of players.
Sometimes it's a lesson for DMs as well, on when to let the players suffer the consequences and when to spend their Get Out Of Jail Free card for them.
I understand your thinking. I don't really agree with 2. However, I would say that if killing a PC advances the story somehow, then it might be OK
Which reminds me: That's one thing I don't like about the 4E DMG that I've been itching to talk about. That is, it encourages DMs to spoon-feed their players a little too much.
But that's for another thread on another day.
-Why do you say that? Talk about it.
-I do plan on running these Adventures one day. Thanks for the info, good stuff.
18DELTA