Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Andrekan Nov 06, 2011 11:12:13	I have been researching for a resent campaign and I wanted to put this theory out there to get some input into the mysteries behind it in order to clarify any confusion other DM’s might have when their games reach out into the planes and also to grant us (the players of the Realms) some sense of unified theory on that which has transpired with the advent of Spellplague.  Plus our games sometimes have links that bridge from previous edition games or touch on some particular aspect of the earlier adventures, (2nd or 3rd edition old character's adventures) with their current new characters 4E adventures. Do the Realms still contain the remains of Celestial Stairways?  I would think so but I am curious if there is any evidence that says different. Is the World Tree gone? I guess it is.  I’ve seen no new references to it and the Astral Plane has changed with the death of Gods, Fall of the Weave, and the Elemental Chaos. My theory of the Elemental Chaos, The Feywild, and The Shadowfell based on our gaming group’s previous edition uses is that when the Weave fell and some of the Celestial Planes vanished or exploded into the Far Realms which brought about the Elemental Chaos and the collapse of the World Tree which merged into the House of Nature and fragments of the Positive Energy Plane to form the Feywild?  Which might also means parts The River of Blood were severed and possibly merged into The Plane of Shadow and the Negative Energy Plane to form the Shadowfell?  Now with these thoughts stated, we can assume that they always existed in such a manner yet the Weave kept them Morphic in a suitable manner as the framework for its support. The other is based on Fey Crossing, Crossroads, and Backroads and any Guardians that once stood post or if so how they might have been affected or not by the collapse or absence of the World Tree.  I think I understand the Shadowfell with the Shar’s concept and the Netherese.  I only wish to clear it up in my mind as a DM so the players of my game get a sense of something grander has/is taking place within the Planes beyond the possible comprehension of the average mortal on Material Plane.  I believe I understand the concept of the Elemental Chaos whereas they once had bound Planes they are a stir above the Abyss now. These might only be the First of a series of events and also a basis for other theories, I may use in my current campaign dealing with the new Cosmology of the Realms.  The other Theories are based on the new and old some examples would be Banehold and Demonweb Pits. How they pertain with accesses sealed or open from The Nine Hells and the Abyss.  These would deal with Demons and Devils granted servitude to such evil gods and it also brushes on Maglubiyet, Loviatar, and Tiamat.     The River of Blood however ran through The Abyss and The Nine Hells, would we guess that they were severed or might it possibly connect through areas like Banehold, which from the Source Material states there are no connections in Banehold, even though it does seem to be a rough area for lots of exiled evil?    Now all of this is a bit deep for the average game, ours are never average.  The player may never grasp the concept but as a DM it is important to have some theories to stick to or ideas on how it all meshes or “Weaves” together. Any Thoughts, Facts, References, or Ideas?
#2 sfdragon Nov 10, 2011 10:43:04	I have been researching for a resent campaign and I wanted to put this theory out there to get some input into the mysteries behind it in order to clarify any confusion other DM’s might have when their games reach out into the planes and also to grant us (the players of the Realms) some sense of unified theory on that which has transpired with the advent of Spellplague.  Plus our games sometimes have links that bridge from previous edition games or touch on some particular aspect of the earlier adventures, (2nd or 3rd edition old character's adventures) with their current new characters 4E adventures. Do the Realms still contain the remains of Celestial Stairways?  I would think so but I am curious if there is any evidence that says different. Is the World Tree gone? I guess it is.  I’ve seen no new references to it and the Astral Plane has changed with the death of Gods, Fall of the Weave, and the Elemental Chaos. My theory of the Elemental Chaos, The Feywild, and The Shadowfell based on our gaming group’s previous edition uses is that when the Weave fell and some of the Celestial Planes vanished or exploded into the Far Realms which brought about the Elemental Chaos and the collapse of the World Tree which merged into the House of Nature and fragments of the Positive Energy Plane to form the Feywild?  Which might also means parts The River of Blood were severed and possibly merged into The Plane of Shadow and the Negative Energy Plane to form the Shadowfell?  Now with these thoughts stated, we can assume that they always existed in such a manner yet the Weave kept them Morphic in a suitable manner as the framework for its support. The other is based on Fey Crossing, Crossroads, and Backroads and any Guardians that once stood post or if so how they might have been affected or not by the collapse or absence of the World Tree.  I think I understand the Shadowfell with the Shar’s concept and the Netherese.  I only wish to clear it up in my mind as a DM so the players of my game get a sense of something grander has/is taking place within the Planes beyond the possible comprehension of the average mortal on Material Plane.  I believe I understand the concept of the Elemental Chaos whereas they once had bound Planes they are a stir above the Abyss now. These might only be the First of a series of events and also a basis for other theories, I may use in my current campaign dealing with the new Cosmology of the Realms.  The other Theories are based on the new and old some examples would be Banehold and Demonweb Pits. How they pertain with accesses sealed or open from The Nine Hells and the Abyss.  These would deal with Demons and Devils granted servitude to such evil gods and it also brushes on Maglubiyet, Loviatar, and Tiamat.     The River of Blood however ran through The Abyss and The Nine Hells, would we guess that they were severed or might it possibly connect through areas like Banehold, which from the Source Material states there are no connections in Banehold, even though it does seem to be a rough area for lots of exiled evil?    Now all of this is a bit deep for the average game, ours are never average.  The player may never grasp the concept but as a DM it is important to have some theories to stick to or ideas on how it all meshes or “Weaves” together. Any Thoughts, Facts, References, or Ideas?    I think its still connected to the celestial stairway. Ido not recall seeing the wrold tree in the 4e campaign setting so iirc its gone.    the elemental chaos was the elemental planes in 3.x and the abyss or was it the hells.... Feywild is the 4e name of the plane of faeire in the realms the shadow plane is still in existance after shar absord mask's power created the shadowfell         I think the house of nature just became the deep wilds. personally I think they should have elft it be. as for refrences. the only books on the planes in 4e cosmology are plane aboce secrest of the astrla sea, plane below secrets of the planes below or something and the manual of the planes . whats in the 4e frcampaign is just whats there
#3 mvincent Nov 15, 2011 15:20:17	Do the Realms still contain the remains of Celestial Stairways? The Infinite Staircase (previously called the Celestial Staircase in Toril) still exists (Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide p.63) Is the World Tree gone? Yes. To be fair though: the astral plane tends to be more a realm of belief... so if there is still a remote culture somewhere in Faerun that still believed certain domains are connected via tree branches, they might well encounter such a construct. Any Thoughts, Facts, References, or Ideas? Here.