Curious - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 maia_lythar-starym Jan 07, 2010 15:20:46	Is there any Novel that depicts the killing of Mystra by Cyric and launching FR into the 4th edition?
#2 LordManshoon Jan 07, 2010 15:58:58	Well... yes and no. The Fractured Sky, Book Two of the Empyrean Odyssey, by Thomas M. Reid, is the closest thing to depicting Mystra's murder. You don't see it happen, but one of the characters has a symbolic vision of the murder beforehand (emphasis on the word symbolic). At the conclusion of the book, Mystra is murdered, though, again, you don't see it happen; the focus remains on the mortal main characters, who are present in Dweomerheart for the event. The planar ramifications of her murder appear in the third book of the trilogy, The Crystal Mountain; however, I say planar because the book focuses on the chaos that spreads throughout the cosmos, and does not pay specific attention to Toril. As for the appearance of the Spellplague on Toril, many books deal with that, although they aren't primarily about it: Undead (book 2 of the Haunted Lands trilogy), The Ghost King (book 3 of the Transitions trilogy) and Plague of Spells (book 1 of the Abolethic Sovereignty trilogy). The Edge of Chaos (third book of the Wilds series) deals with the lingering presence of Spellplague in 1479 DR. EDIT: In addition to what Iluvrien and myself have mentioned, I'd also suggest the Twilight War trilogy by Paul Kemp. It takes place some years before the Spellplague occurs, but it provides crucial insight into the rise of Netheril and Sembia's submission, as well as the disappearance of a certain thief god.
#3 Iluvrien Jan 07, 2010 16:07:45	I would also add that there are series included in the 4E changeover, they are (if memory serves) they Transitions series by Robert Salvatore (The Orc King, The Pirate King and the Ghost King) and Bruce Cordell's Abolethic Sovereignty books (Plague of Spells and City of Torment) people would probably suggest that the Lady Penitent series by Lisa Smedman should be added to that list too. Those would just be suggestions as I haven't read any of the above.
#4 The_Silversword Jan 08, 2010 21:28:55	Ive yet to read any of those books, actually I havnt read any of the newer 4e ones yet. Its not that Im against the 4e novels or anything, I just havnt got around to it yet. But any way after I do read these novels would I suddenly have more insight into the whole 4e Realms thing, or is it the type of thing were it actually raises more questions than it answers?
#5 LordManshoon Jan 09, 2010 2:49:58	Ive yet to read any of those books, actually I havnt read any of the newer 4e ones yet. Its not that Im against the 4e novels or anything, I just havnt got around to it yet. But any way after I do read these novels would I suddenly have more insight into the whole 4e Realms thing, or is it the type of thing were it actually raises more questions than it answers? I wouldn't say too many of them really raise more questions than they answer, but some provide greater insight than others (and some leave potential questions unanswered because it's not necessary for the reader to know any further details). The Twilight War trilogy provides great insight into the Sembia-Netheril topic, and though it takes place before 1385, it's easy for the reader to understand how the events in the books translated to modern-day 1479 DR. The Lady Penitent trilogy, on the other hand, provides plenty of insight in some areas, but falls short in others, or worse, provides half-hearted answers that won't satisfy some/many readers (for instance - Reader: What happened to Qil- Answer: She's dead beyond salvation, and there's no hope. R: Really? A: Sure. Why not?) The Orc King the immediate aftermath of the war between Bruenor and Obould, but it isn't really until the end of the novel that you begin to see the potential for peace. The prologue and epilogue don't really provide answers, but they sure do raise questions. The Pirate King gives a full account of Deudermont's failed bid to bring stability to Luskan and the rise of the Four Pirate Lords. It delivers what it promises, so the average reader should be very happy with it. The Ghost King really doesn't answer anything about the Spellplague itself, nor is its depiction very helpful. However, it does provide a glimpse at the appearance of the Shadowfell and the weakening of the borders between planes. Of course, the focus of the book is the RAS Crew, not the Spellplague, so beyond "The Spellplague hurt Catti-brie!" and "Magic isn't totally reliable.", there's not much to be gleamed. The Haunted Lands, specifically Undead, provides a better look at the magic-ravaging disaster, but the Spellplague itself takes a back-seat to the mortal mages overcoming it, so if the reader expects the transition to be a full course, s/he's going to have to settle for an appetizer. Incidentally, I found it odd how quickly some of the spellcasters in Undead managed to recover their Art, but I basically attributed it to plot convenience. Unclean is really just sets up Szass Tam's bid for power and the increase in undead, as well as establishing the battle lines. Undead follows up by going into the full swing of battle, and depicts Szass Tam's near-annihilation of his fellow zulkirs. Unholy makes a tremendous jump, leaping from 1385 DR (in Undead) to 1478 DR. It's basically just the tale of how the zulkirs returned to Thay to put a stop to Szass Tam's mad ritual, the details of which are finally revealed (though you might get a couple chuckles out of it as you go along), and shows Szass Tam curbstomping them to hell. It also describes the Brotherhood of the Griffon, which we'll be seeing more of this spring (I think it's spring). The Edge of Chaos does a fair job at helping one understand how the Vilhon Reach came to be tainted with Spellplague, and does a terrific job of covering how dangerous active pockets of Spellplague are in 1479 DR. It's also a must-read if you're interested in the Order of Blue Fire. Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep does a fantastic job. All four of the novels explain the past century in Waterdeep, though obviously not in full detail. The authors manage to incorporate the post-Spellplague history very well without going overboard. The books leave enough to the imagination, without making the reader feel cheated or irritatingly uninformed. I have mixed feelings about The Empyrean Odyssey. On the one hand, it does cover its bases. All the basic info you'd expect from such a series is included. The downside is the severe lack of detail. To be fair, there's a lot to cover in such a short space, but the average reader is bound to be disappointed several times. For instance, at one point in The Crystal Mountain, an angel reveals Cyric's imprisonment to one of her fellows, and, in mid-sentence mind you, mentions that Lathander recently revealed he was always Amaunator, before returning to discussing Cyric's house arrest. The speed at which important details are mentioned and then passed by is almost worthy of a sigh. The Abolethic Sovereignty (well, the first two books) does a pretty good job. Plague of Spells (the title still brings a grin to my face) shows the destruction of Starmantle, a brief glimpse into the Plaguewrought Land, the Wailing Years Impiltur, and the first stirrings of the Abolethic Sovereignty (before the aboleths even arrive on the scene). It also reveals the fate of that mixed-bag that was Stardeep (and Cynosure). City of Torment concerned itself less with providing background info and more with the actual plot. Xxiphu is covered in great detail, and I was impressed with the vivid descriptions of the city. You also gain a somewhat solid grasp of the Eldest, the aboleth of aboleths.
#6 The_Silversword Jan 09, 2010 16:35:02	Ahhh thank you for that LM. So it sounds like the ones you mentioned all heve their merits. I ll get on reading some of those but I got a big buch of older novels off of ebay, so those will keep me busy for awhile. It amazes me the number of novels I havnt read! And i consider my self a Realms fan! Shame on me!
#7 DoctorBadWolf Jan 12, 2010 1:40:32	This thread should be stickied. Seriously. EDIT: what kind of info do we have through the novels about the gods? particularly the ones that aren't mentioned in the new setting books?
#8 LordManshoon Jan 13, 2010 20:23:42	what kind of info do we have through the novels about the gods? particularly the ones that aren't mentioned in the new setting books? Based on what I've read? not a whole lot. The Haunted Lands trilogy doesn't really acknowledge the gods, save for the discovery of the Spellplague's cause in Undead. The mortal mages discover it was Cyric and Shar who teamed up to slay Mystra, which resulted in the catastrophe. This was predicted beforehand by the zulkir of divination, who, despite her great talent for that particular art, shouldn't have been able to predict such a cosmos-shaking event (if Savras can't, she can't). The Transitions trilogy (well, The Ghost King) makes mention of Deneir and Mielikki, albeit not (to me) in a satisfying or enlightening way. Show Deneir survives the initial shockwave of Mystra's death, and begins to study the ruined Weave. He discerns that the Weave is not truly obliterated, but merely lies in tatters. He continues to apply logic and reason to the chaotic jumble of magic, and eventually comes to the conclusion to that this study is worthy of his life. He takes the tangled, mostly-dead Weave and binds it into the Metatext, his all-powerful font of knowledge, at the cost of his own life, or so we're led to believe.
#9 DoctorBadWolf Jan 13, 2010 23:50:23	Wow. Thank you very much. Seriously, this thread needs to be stickied. Is there a way to request that the thread be stickied? Or could someone (who would actually bother updating it) start a new one to answer and collect the answers to questions like this?
#10 Imruphel Jan 15, 2010 4:09:47	LM, Thanks for posting all those details. I was planning to read some novels but not others (I can't read RAS any more: he is in the same territory for me now as George Lucas with his ewoks, gungans and Ja-Jar Binks [and I think they have the same talent, or lack thereof, for dialogue]) but it's great to have them summarised like that.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

maia_lythar-starym

Jan 07, 2010 15:20:46

Is there any Novel that depicts the killing of Mystra by Cyric and launching FR into the 4th edition?

LordManshoon

Jan 07, 2010 15:58:58

Well... yes and no. The Fractured Sky, Book Two of the Empyrean Odyssey, by Thomas M. Reid, is the closest thing to depicting Mystra's murder. You don't see it happen, but one of the characters has a symbolic vision of the murder beforehand (emphasis on the word symbolic). At the conclusion of the book, Mystra is murdered, though, again, you don't see it happen; the focus remains on the mortal main characters, who are present in Dweomerheart for the event. The planar ramifications of her murder appear in the third book of the trilogy, The Crystal Mountain; however, I say planar because the book focuses on the chaos that spreads throughout the cosmos, and does not pay specific attention to Toril. As for the appearance of the Spellplague on Toril, many books deal with that, although they aren't primarily about it: Undead (book 2 of the Haunted Lands trilogy), The Ghost King (book 3 of the Transitions trilogy) and Plague of Spells (book 1 of the Abolethic Sovereignty trilogy). The Edge of Chaos (third book of the Wilds series) deals with the lingering presence of Spellplague in 1479 DR.

EDIT: In addition to what Iluvrien and myself have mentioned, I'd also suggest the Twilight War trilogy by Paul Kemp. It takes place some years before the Spellplague occurs, but it provides crucial insight into the rise of Netheril and Sembia's submission, as well as the disappearance of a certain thief god.

Iluvrien

Jan 07, 2010 16:07:45

I would also add that there are series included in the 4E changeover, they are (if memory serves) they Transitions series by Robert Salvatore (The Orc King, The Pirate King and the Ghost King) and Bruce Cordell's Abolethic Sovereignty books (Plague of Spells and City of Torment) people would probably suggest that the Lady Penitent series by Lisa Smedman should be added to that list too.

Those would just be suggestions as I haven't read any of the above.

The_Silversword

Jan 08, 2010 21:28:55

Ive yet to read any of those books, actually I havnt read any of the newer 4e ones yet. Its not that Im against the 4e novels or anything, I just havnt got around to it yet. But any way after I do read these novels would I suddenly have more insight into the whole 4e Realms thing, or is it the type of thing were it actually raises more questions than it answers?

LordManshoon

Jan 09, 2010 2:49:58

Ive yet to read any of those books, actually I havnt read any of the newer 4e ones yet. Its not that Im against the 4e novels or anything, I just havnt got around to it yet. But any way after I do read these novels would I suddenly have more insight into the whole 4e Realms thing, or is it the type of thing were it actually raises more questions than it answers?

I wouldn't say too many of them really raise more questions than they answer, but some provide greater insight than others (and some leave potential questions unanswered because it's not necessary for the reader to know any further details).
The Twilight War trilogy provides great insight into the Sembia-Netheril topic, and though it takes place before 1385, it's easy for the reader to understand how the events in the books translated to modern-day 1479 DR. The Lady Penitent trilogy, on the other hand, provides plenty of insight in some areas, but falls short in others, or worse, provides half-hearted answers that won't satisfy some/many readers (for instance - Reader: What happened to Qil- Answer: She's dead beyond salvation, and there's no hope. R: Really? A: Sure. Why not?)

The Orc King the immediate aftermath of the war between Bruenor and Obould, but it isn't really until the end of the novel that you begin to see the potential for peace. The prologue and epilogue don't really provide answers, but they sure do raise questions. The Pirate King gives a full account of Deudermont's failed bid to bring stability to Luskan and the rise of the Four Pirate Lords. It delivers what it promises, so the average reader should be very happy with it. The Ghost King really doesn't answer anything about the Spellplague itself, nor is its depiction very helpful. However, it does provide a glimpse at the appearance of the Shadowfell and the weakening of the borders between planes. Of course, the focus of the book is the RAS Crew, not the Spellplague, so beyond "The Spellplague hurt Catti-brie!" and "Magic isn't totally reliable.", there's not much to be gleamed.

The Haunted Lands, specifically Undead, provides a better look at the magic-ravaging disaster, but the Spellplague itself takes a back-seat to the mortal mages overcoming it, so if the reader expects the transition to be a full course, s/he's going to have to settle for an appetizer. Incidentally, I found it odd how quickly some of the spellcasters in Undead managed to recover their Art, but I basically attributed it to plot convenience. Unclean is really just sets up Szass Tam's bid for power and the increase in undead, as well as establishing the battle lines. Undead follows up by going into the full swing of battle, and depicts Szass Tam's near-annihilation of his fellow zulkirs. Unholy makes a tremendous jump, leaping from 1385 DR (in Undead) to 1478 DR. It's basically just the tale of how the zulkirs returned to Thay to put a stop to Szass Tam's mad ritual, the details of which are finally revealed (though you might get a couple chuckles out of it as you go along), and shows Szass Tam curbstomping them to hell. It also describes the Brotherhood of the Griffon, which we'll be seeing more of this spring (I think it's spring).

The Edge of Chaos does a fair job at helping one understand how the Vilhon Reach came to be tainted with Spellplague, and does a terrific job of covering how dangerous active pockets of Spellplague are in 1479 DR. It's also a must-read if you're interested in the Order of Blue Fire.

Ed Greenwood Presents Waterdeep does a fantastic job. All four of the novels explain the past century in Waterdeep, though obviously not in full detail. The authors manage to incorporate the post-Spellplague history very well without going overboard. The books leave enough to the imagination, without making the reader feel cheated or irritatingly uninformed.

I have mixed feelings about The Empyrean Odyssey. On the one hand, it does cover its bases. All the basic info you'd expect from such a series is included. The downside is the severe lack of detail. To be fair, there's a lot to cover in such a short space, but the average reader is bound to be disappointed several times. For instance, at one point in The Crystal Mountain, an angel reveals Cyric's imprisonment to one of her fellows, and, in mid-sentence mind you, mentions that Lathander recently revealed he was always Amaunator, before returning to discussing Cyric's house arrest. The speed at which important details are mentioned and then passed by is almost worthy of a sigh.

The Abolethic Sovereignty (well, the first two books) does a pretty good job. Plague of Spells (the title still brings a grin to my face) shows the destruction of Starmantle, a brief glimpse into the Plaguewrought Land, the Wailing Years Impiltur, and the first stirrings of the Abolethic Sovereignty (before the aboleths even arrive on the scene). It also reveals the fate of that mixed-bag that was Stardeep (and Cynosure). City of Torment concerned itself less with providing background info and more with the actual plot. Xxiphu is covered in great detail, and I was impressed with the vivid descriptions of the city. You also gain a somewhat solid grasp of the Eldest, the aboleth of aboleths.

The_Silversword

Jan 09, 2010 16:35:02

Ahhh thank you for that LM. So it sounds like the ones you mentioned all heve their merits. I ll get on reading some of those but I got a big buch of older novels off of ebay, so those will keep me busy for awhile. It amazes me the number of novels I havnt read! And i consider my self a Realms fan! Shame on me!

DoctorBadWolf

Jan 12, 2010 1:40:32

This thread should be stickied.

Seriously.

EDIT: what kind of info do we have through the novels about the gods? particularly the ones that aren't mentioned in the new setting books?

LordManshoon

Jan 13, 2010 20:23:42

what kind of info do we have through the novels about the gods? particularly the ones that aren't mentioned in the new setting books?

Based on what I've read? not a whole lot.

The Haunted Lands trilogy doesn't really acknowledge the gods, save for the discovery of the Spellplague's cause in Undead. The mortal mages discover it was Cyric and Shar who teamed up to slay Mystra, which resulted in the catastrophe. This was predicted beforehand by the zulkir of divination, who, despite her great talent for that particular art, shouldn't have been able to predict such a cosmos-shaking event (if Savras can't, she can't).

The Transitions trilogy (well, The Ghost King) makes mention of Deneir and Mielikki, albeit not (to me) in a satisfying or enlightening way.

Show

Deneir survives the initial shockwave of Mystra's death, and begins to study the ruined Weave. He discerns that the Weave is not truly obliterated, but merely lies in tatters. He continues to apply logic and reason to the chaotic jumble of magic, and eventually comes to the conclusion to that this study is worthy of his life. He takes the tangled, mostly-dead Weave and binds it into the Metatext, his all-powerful font of knowledge, at the cost of his own life, or so we're led to believe.

DoctorBadWolf

Jan 13, 2010 23:50:23

Wow. Thank you very much.

Seriously, this thread needs to be stickied.
Is there a way to request that the thread be stickied? Or could someone (who would actually bother updating it) start a new one to answer and collect the answers to questions like this?

#10

Imruphel

Jan 15, 2010 4:09:47

LM,

Thanks for posting all those details. I was planning to read some novels but not others (I can't read RAS any more: he is in the same territory for me now as George Lucas with his ewoks, gungans and Ja-Jar Binks [and I think they have the same talent, or lack thereof, for dialogue]) but it's great to have them summarised like that.